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I'm seeing a recent uptick in additions of external links to Wolfram Alpha by different throwaway IP addresses: see e.g. Special:Contributions/37.139.70.1, Special:Contributions/78.138.97.85, Special:Contributions/82.103.129.244, Special:Contributions/103.246.96.184. Given the nearly-identical edit summary but vast distance in geolocation of these addresses, I'm guessing some abuse of proxying services to disguise the origins of these edits. My feeling is that Wolfram Alpha should by presumption be disallowed as failing WP:ELNO #9 (search engine results) but we have currently over 1000 of those links. Anyway, I'm not sure what to do here other than offer a general heads-up. — David Eppstein ( talk) 00:41, 21 November 2015 (UTC)
My addition of an external link to a totally nonprofit web page listing the oldest companies in Finland by date was deleted by Nikthestunned as a "spamlink".
It is, however, certainly not spam, but perfectly relevant information and based on long time research. Covering years up to 1879 the Finnish list is also a useful addition to Wikipedia's worldwide list up to 1699. Benevolent and relevant attemps to assist Wikipedia's readers by supplementing the global list should definitely not be dismissed as "spam", but rather encouraged.
I request the link to be reinstated. Alternatively, should my link be considered violating some other Wikipedia guideline, I request the wording of the dismissal to be changed. Calling my well meaning contribution "spam" is unjustly discrediting. Please review this case. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.89.123.43 ( talk) 09:55, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
List of Nikki and John Pranksters In Love episodes ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Currently there are 195 links to YouTube videos (one for each episode) embedded into the article. I could see how a single link to the YouTube channel might be acceptable if used as an inline citation or added to an "External links" section, but 195 embedded links does seem more like promotional spam than anything else per WP:LINKFARM and WP:ELNO. The YouTube videos all seem to be from the series' official YouTube channel so I don't think they are copyvios, but once again 195 links seems really excessive. Anyway, I am wondering if another editor (or two) might take a look and let me know if I am missing something here. Thanks in advance. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 05:13, 16 December 2015 (UTC)
I just reverted two IP edits to FanDuel and DraftKings that inserted affiliate spam links to both articles, while using an edit summary of "rm affiliate spam" -- clearly indicating that the user was aware that this kind of spam doesn't belong in the article. I guess the user thought that nobody would analyze the content, and would read only the edit summary. A review of the history of both articles shows that this is an ongoing problem; indeed, both articles have been semi-protected (in the past) for periods of time to help reduce this and other forms of vandalism.
The purpose of this report is not to report a specific user (I've placed a template warning on the IP user's talk page, for whatever good it will do), but to suggest that alternative means need to be used to prevent this in the future. I wonder if an edit filter can be created that will nip this in the bud, while still allowing normal editing of the page? It appears that both sites use affiliate marketing codes that have pretty well-defined characteristics -- exactly what is needed for an effective edit filter. (Please ping when replying here.) Etamni | ✉ | ✓ 16:51, 25 December 2015 (UTC)
I see my last query wasn't responded, but every hopeful, is using pages such as this one [1] suitable for the author's article? Doug Weller talk 14:39, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
Hello there, There is a series of links from palgrave.com to around 400+ pages and many of the links are dead and most of the links will take you to the main page of the website so i just want to know what we can do. Do we need to use wayback machine to recover dead links or better to remove because this website also sell books and as per WP:LINKSTOAVOID it says, "Instead of linking to a commercial book site, consider the "ISBN" linking format, which gives readers an opportunity to search a wide variety of free and non-free book sources." Thank You – GSS ( talk) 20:01, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
Libor Nováček ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Was wondering if someone wouldn't mind checking the external links for this article? I clicked on a few and they were blocked by my PC for containing Malware. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 12:06, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
On Social Justice Warrior a couple editors, who are also calling for the article to be deleted and contesting numerous other improvements to the article, are saying an U rban Dictionary link is not a suitable external link. Several of the sources use the Urban Dictionary definition, including the Washington Post, lending credibility to it. I also don't believe it is a violation of WP:EL and in fact it seems to support this being used as an external link, saying it's meant for "sites that fail to meet criteria for reliable sources yet still contain information about the subject of the article from knowledgeable sources." Ghost of hugh glass ( talk) 14:03, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
@ Ghost of hugh glass: - My primary concern was that it was not adding anything (that can not be included here). In the specific example ( Social Justice Warrior) that is exactly so (I now checked). It contains mainly the same text, the only addition would be some examples (which could also be written in the article on Wikipedia). Hence, per WP:ELNO, this link should not be there (and likely not on many pages on Wikipedia). -- Dirk Beetstra T C 12:56, 27 January 2016 (UTC)
Are [2] and [3] acceptable external links for the articles Mahdi and Masih ad-Dajjal? They would most certainly not pass as reliable sources, being self-published and all that (with a dash of WP:COI), but the external links guidelines do not seem to care about reliability. Pinging FreeatlastChitchat and Elzbenz, who have also dealt with Abdullahfaruqibnibrahimy's links, but I'd like some 3rd party opinions too. Thanks! - HyperGaruda ( talk) 19:46, 21 February 2016 (UTC)
The following has been repeatedly added to Ark of the Covenant by two editors with few or no other edits:
My instinct is that this is nothing more than spam. Others' views would be appreciated.- Mr X 03:31, 22 February 2016 (UTC)
Drexel Dragons men's lacrosse ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
The external link for "Drexel Lacrosse A History of the Heart - William Thayer" seems to be setup so that the pdf file it's linked to downloads to your computer, instead of opening up in your web browser. Not sure if this kind of thing is acceptable per WP:ELNO. It could just be the way my computer is set up, but even so not sure if something needs to be added to the link's description so that the reader is aware that the file may start to download. Is there a way to tweak the url address so that clicking on the link does not automatically start to download the file? -- Marchjuly ( talk) 00:17, 16 February 2016 (UTC)
Hello everyone,
I was referred here by another Wikipedia user concerning the usage of external links on pages like List of datasets for machine learning research and Comparison of datasets in machine learning. First, some background:
Machine learning is a field where automated methods are used to find patterns in data. It has been argued [1] that the availability of high-quality training datasets is actually far more important than the availability of new machine learning algorithms. It appears that in many/most cases, great technological leaps in machine learning performance come when a new high-quality dataset is made available, not a new algorithm (some examples of this given in [1]).
For these reasons, Wikipedia should have some record of the groundbreaking datasets that have helped to significantly advance machine learning research. Since the vast majority of individual datasets do not have their own articles (and despite their importance in the field, probably shouldn't), articles like List of datasets for machine learning research and Comparison of datasets in machine learning can serve to aggregate the most important among them.
To maximize the utility of these pages, they contain external links to the webpages where the datasets mentioned can actually be downloaded and used. In both of the example articles given, these links are placed in the rows of the tables. I wanted to open up a discussion here about the usage of these links and their compatibility with WP:EL. And, if they are not compatible, begin the process of discussing an exception. I see in WP:EL that "lists themselves should not be composed of external links." However, it also says "This section does not apply if the external link is serving as a citation for a stand-alone list entry that otherwise meets that list's inclusion criteria."
In closing, I believe pages like these will become great resources to the machine learning community as it continues to develop. I look forward to discussing with everyone. DATAKEEPER ✉ 18:49, 26 February 2016 (UTC)
@ Datakeeper, Prevalence, and Stesmo: - First, the way they are currently linked is inappropriate, at best they should be turned into references, or in a far-to-the-right column with 'link to dataset'. And for the latter I would still disagree that these links serve Wikipedia's purpose. They are in a way nothing different from direct links to the websites of restaurants in New York on the article 'restaurants in New York'. And both of those fail WP:NOTYELLOW.
Now, regarding the first entry in the first table on List of datasets for machine learning research there is an external link to FERET. That is a notable entry in itself, as witnessed by our internal article FERET. The external link there should hence be converted to the internal link to the internal page - and on the article FERET a link to the dataset (or better, the 'homepage' of the dataset) IS appropriate (and that is there). It does not belong in the list. I haven't checked any other cases, but I presume that there are many which do have internal links possible.
So shortly, all external links in the first column should go, and should all turn into internal Wikilinks. For items that are not notable in Wikipedia terms (hence, are redlinks) sufficient references should show some notability (as in, reliable independent sources must at least have 'noticed' the database), and could contain a reference to the 'homepage' of the dataset. For items that fail that notability test, they should simply be removed from the list (what we see on other similar list-pages is that people just add their self-crafted example to such lists - anyone can make a database of something, post it online and link it here, that is not enough for being mentioned in Wikipedia). -- Dirk Beetstra T C 05:30, 2 March 2016 (UTC)
As explained above, the links violate WP:EL and WP:NOTYELLOW. Changing the links to references only makes the problem worse by pretending that the links are references when in fact they are there to serve as a directory. The solution is to write the article first, for each notable entry, then link to the relevant article in the list. -- Ronz ( talk) 23:53, 2 March 2016 (UTC)
@ Datakeeper: - I think it would be good to see what happens when you try to link the proper articles. I do hope that the references for the then redlinked ones do show reasonable notability over being just mentioned as 'yet another dataset'. As I said above, everyone can create databases of whatever, that does not mean that it should be in the list. I think that the bar should be that the dataset is being used in some reasonably visible or important way. -- Dirk Beetstra T C 06:31, 3 March 2016 (UTC)
@ Ronz: Thanks for the input. As was discussed above I'm fine moving the links out of the table altogether. I suggested what others suggested, moving the links to the end of each reference as a link to "dataset homepage." This could easily be done with a script. I do not plan to change the links in the first column of the article to internal Wikipedia references, because most datasets (even those used in a great deal of research) do not really warrant their own articles and so they don't exist. @ Beetstra: this applies to your comments too. I do want to address your concern that "everyone can create databases of whatever." This is definitely true! I wanted to assure you that, as evidenced by the references, every single item in this article is not only of value to machine learning research, but has been referenced in one or more academic journal publications on the topic. This list is not just an indiscriminate group of datasets from various places.
So, to resolve this and avoid violation of WP:NOTYELLOW & WP:EL, there are two options I see:
Because it could be argued from WP:EL that these links are indeed serving as citations, I think the second option is the better of the two. I've heard opinions on both sides and I think the second one will result in a better and more useful article (while abiding by WP:EL) as it grows as a resource for the machine learning community. How about I try it out? I'm fine personally making these edits. Thanks everyone. DATAKEEPER ✉ 19:02, 3 March 2016 (UTC)
As I said, I'm fine removing the links if that is the consensus. It seems to be the majority. I'd be happy to resolve this. DATAKEEPER ✉ 22:12, 3 March 2016 (UTC)
Hi. I have been discussing with @ Srich32977: about his additions of a Goodreads EL template to BLP articles. See our discussion here. I think this is a judgement call, what do others thinks?
I'm inclined towards it failing Links normally to be avoided on points 1, 10, 14 and 17.
Example of some of the links added:
Thanks. -- Escape Orbit (Talk) 12:14, 30 March 2016 (UTC)
Goodreads is a wiki and what's worse, it presents quantitative rankings that aggregate the "votes" of site visitors. There's no expert editorial control and no authority who's responsible for the content. Moreover, while there are numerous sources for highly notable authors such as Adam Smith, there are few such RS lists of the publications of less notable or borderline writers. Thus, the use of Goodreads or similar sites distorts the encyclopedia by adding WP:UNDUE content with the implication that the Goodreads page lists noteworthy works and valid commentary on the authors. Goodreads should never be used as an external link. SPECIFICO talk 13:05, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
These comments are not correct. The basic (bibliographic) data in Goodreads is controlled by the 125 staff members. It is not a wiki because the only content that members can edit is their own commentary. Those user comments and ratings are but one aspect of Goodreads. There is no implication that only noteworthy words are listed. The commentary provided by members is no more valid that the commentary we see here on this talk page. (The members are simply people who have read particular works and given their reactions.) So what if "less notable or borderline" authors are listed? WorldCat lists a lot of writers too, and it provides a system for rating and reviewing works. The big difference is that a number of books and writers listed on Goodreads have such ratings whereas WorldCat users do not generally contribute. – S. Rich ( talk) 21:18, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
{{Goodreads book|29047551-isidro|Isidro}}
gives us a newer edition (2015) that is not listed by WorldCat.) Now compare this listing to the WorldCat listing:
OCLC
861553018. Hmmmmm! WorldCat allows users to review and rate the book. (Shameful!) And WorldCat has a link where users can buy the book. (Evil!!) Do you need more documentation? Look at
OCLC
921035182 where we see a user review and links to Amazon and B&N. Come on, per the comments above WP should eliminate WorldCat links from its pages. Is that what you're suggesting? I think not. Having Goodreads links is simply what
Lorcan Dempsey calls an "addressable
knowledge base". E.g., WP "makes it easy to include in any online communications a pointer to more knowledge on any topic...." Goodreads, like the OCLC, is another pointer. –
S. Rich (
talk) 15:02, 5 April 2016 (UTC)15:09, 5 April 2016 (UTC)
@ Srich32977: I know you read the suggestion of people complaining that this is not a reliable source, but the basic point here is that this is NOT a proper external link on many of the pages where you added it to, it simply does not give any additional information beyond what is already there, or what can not already be included. You even argue that "Goodreads, like the OCLC, is another pointer", you are hence plainly linkfarming there. It may only be a good temporary external link on some minor stubs where it can be used to expand the article further, but even that is a stretch (we have talkpages for those suggestions).
I think the overall conclusion is here, that you are being asked to remove the links again, and then get first proper consensus before inclusion of this link (per WP:EL). Can you please remove the links and get a proper consensus for the use of these templates? -- Dirk Beetstra T C 03:48, 6 April 2016 (UTC) (ping edit: @ Srich32977: -- Dirk Beetstra T C 04:51, 6 April 2016 (UTC))
Recently, I cleared out a couple of linkfarms of 'popular songs' (obviously unreferenced as to evidence their popularity), with every song linked to a YouTube interpretation. While I already wonder whether these lists are supposed to be there, I think that they should not link to every available YouTube at all ( WP:NOT#DIRECTORY and so). I now find out that they have been reverted all back in.
Examples:
It appear to be some IPs who do everything they can to get those lists there, and to keep these lists there. Any suggestions? -- Dirk Beetstra T C 12:51, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
And likely many from Special:Contributions/2.92.89.216 etc. If this persists we may need an edit filter to keep this clean. -- Dirk Beetstra T C 03:19, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
Another source of pages: to clearout these linkfarms: Special:Contributions/Igor508. -- Dirk Beetstra T C 03:53, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
George J. Morgan ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Would it be acceptable per WP:EL to add www.dropbox.com/sh/e5mqda5g1c14ox5/YJvzhnONiS?preview=zIrish+Times+Obituary+1979.jpg as an external link for the article? I've been searching for an online version of this in the archives of the The Irish Times and did find this which I believe includes a link to the same article/obituary, but it requires a subscription to see. The link to the photo comes from an external link to a drop box of images which was embedded into the article here in January 2014. I'm not sure if adding an external link to all of those photos is appropriate per WP:COPYLINK, but I am wondering if linking to a scan/photo of a newspaper obituary is considered OK. Thanks in advance. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 04:46, 14 April 2016 (UTC)
The featured article about " Something", a popular Beatles song written by George Harrison, contains an external link to MetroLyrics, an online song lyrics provider. Along with the lyrics, MetroLyrics includes "SONGWRITERS MAX GREEN, CRAIG EDWARD MABBITT, BRIAN MONEY, ROBERT ORTIZ, JOHN FELDMANN". [4] This is not an isolated error. MetroLyrics miscredits songwriters for several well-known songs, including:
MetroLyrics stresses that it licenses lyrics: "Leading The Way – MetroLyrics was the first lyrics site to provide users with licensed song lyrics and to compensate copyright holders for the content through its partnership with Gracenote." [11] However, their links seem to go against WP policies and guidelines. WP:ELNEVER states "material that violates the copyrights of others per contributors' rights and obligations should not be linked." How are the copyright holders rights being respected (and compensated) if they are misidentified? WP:ELNO provides "one should generally avoid providing external links to: ... 2. Any site that misleads the reader by use of factually inaccurate material ..." Links to inaccurate information, especially in WP:Featured articles, reflects poorly on WP.
Most of the external links to MetroLyrics were added to song articles by
User:LyricsBot (the "Something" link was added 7 September 2013)
[12] and were not subject to fact checking. Do song lyrics links meet WP policies and guidelines if the lyrics are mostly correct, but the songwriters are miscredited?
—
Ojorojo (
talk) 21:11, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
Two proposals to address these issues are open for discussion:
Thanks for your interest. — Ojorojo ( talk) 19:25, 15 April 2016 (UTC)
What's your take on {{ Wikitree name}} being used in the external links section? I think it runs afoul of WP:ELNO #12, although others have disagreed and stated its both stable and has a large number of editors. More importantly, though, I think it just doesn't add anything of value to our articles.
In the single article it's currently in use in, David Niven, the "biography" on Niven hosted by Wikitree just references Wikipedia. The only value added is perhaps the family tree, but any ancestors relevant to an encyclopedia should be covered in the article itself. Additionally, there's no references provided for the family tree. I question whether this provides reliable enough information to be included in the external links.
I'd like opinions on this before I take this to TfD. Note the past TfD of a related template here. ~ Rob Talk 16:42, 16 April 2016 (UTC)
Pierrot ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
While looking at the article Pierrot, I noticed that there were quite a few external links embedded into the body of the article. (See this old version for reference.) My understanding of WP:EL#Links in lists, MOS:LINK#Link titles, WP:RDD and WP:CS#Avoid embedded links is that external links are not allowed to be embedded into articles in this manner; therefore, I was bold and removed them all (49 links in total) here, here and here. Another editor saw my edits and has asked for clarification at User talk:Marchjuly#Pierrot, so I am posting here to see what others have to say. I looked at the links that were embedded to see if they were embedded citations or could be converted to inline citations, but didn't think that was the case for any of them. There were also some links to YouTube or other videos as well as (online) complete published works which might be problematic per WP:COPYLINK. Anyway, if I was too bold and shouldn't have removed the links, then I will happily go back and self-revert. Thanks in advance. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 13:59, 16 April 2016 (UTC)
I probably did not express myself clearly, which is understandable, as I thinking through some of these issues, and they are not all clearcut to me.
I start with the well=know quote from Jimmy, in Wikipedia:Prime objective:
That may be overly broad but is not as broad as some imagine, if one emphasizes “understanding” (as used in the article knowledge). For example, an alphabetic list of all the words used in a recent email to a friend is a verifiable fact, but we don’t even need to lean on our notability guideline to exclude it, we can lean on the word “understanding” and assert that such a list doesn’t meaningfully contribute to our understanding of the world.
Now imagine an article about Mary, in which the following statement is made: ‘’Mary worked at Joe’s Restaurant.’’ It is easy to imagine that a reader may wonder if the statement is actually true, and for that reason we think it is useful to provide a reference in which an independent reliable source states that Mary actually did work at that restaurant. If the restaurant itself is notable, we might have an article about it and we would blue link the name of the restaurant. However, an external link, or even a footnote to the official page of the restaurant would be viewed as advertising. The reader is interested in the truth of the assertion, but isn’t necessarily interested in more information about the restaurant itself.
In contrast, if a reader is reading an article about Pierrot, and that article includes a relevant list of notable works, such as Edna St. Vincent Millay’s ‘’Aria da Capo’’, it is quite plausible that the reader will be interested in that play. In an ideal world we will have a separate article about the play itself, and perhaps we will someday, but short of that, I think a footnote that brings the reader to the play itself provides a valuable service and one that would be expected by the reader of an encyclopedia.
The editor has provided an enormous service by tracking down and identifying some of these valuable historical documents. We can continue to debate how best to include such information in this article, but I don’t see the footnotes as comparable to advertising.-- S Philbrick (Talk) 14:29, 18 April 2016 (UTC)
Comment on ISBN suggestion (collapsed for length)
|
---|
First, I wish to emphasize that I'm a big fan of the use of ISBN's. When I was active in reviewing new articles, I often looked up and added the ISBN for hundreds of works. Our template linking to book sources provides a rich source of options for people interested in a particular work. That said, I think it fails spectacularly in this specific case you suggested. You noted that ''Behind a Watteau Picture'' has an ISBN: that template will lead the reader to "book sources" which contains 15 resources to help the reader tracked down the book, online, for sale, or at a library. Let's examine the results: Online text
Online databases
That's pretty discouraging. Not only did it not find a copy of the actual book, it did not find a single library in the world containing the book. That's the first time I ever recall getting such results on a valid ISBN. The best you can do is spend almost $20 (or more) to get a reprint. How on earth do we justify presenting results such as these to the reader, when we have a working link to the actual public domain text? |
I am troubled by the (former) inclusion of this link (currently removed):
My main concern is that it is a blog. While some think that blogs are never permitted, that’s not quite the case. They can be used when produced by an established expert on the subject matter, whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable third-party publications. (See WP:BLOGS). I don’t know enough about the author of the blog to know whether that applies, but I would not support conversion to a footnote unless it can be demonstrated that it meets the policy.-- S Philbrick (Talk) 17:08, 18 April 2016 (UTC)
One of the embedded links is to the text of Bliss Carman and Mary Perry King Kennerly’s ‘’Pas de trois’’
That link goes to the American Verse Project, whose guidelines for use includes the follow:
Individuals are allowed to use the texts freely, whether to create new editions, distribute to students, or use as a basis for multimedia products. Institutions such as universities, publishers, or online providers are required to seek permission from the Press and, in some cases, pay a fee, in order to use or distribute the texts. (Emphasis added).
It is possible this section is included because some of the material subject to copyright. The “conditions of use” section links to Access and Use Policy which states:
Given this information, I have chosen not to restore the link as a footnote, but suggest contacting the University of Michigan to clarify that they agree that the 1914 document is in the public domain and can be linked freely.-- S Philbrick (Talk) 18:52, 18 April 2016 (UTC)
In addition to the ones identified at the beginning of this section:
Well, this is my first time behind the curtain here at Wikipedia (long-time user and financial contributor) so not sure how to go about this. Someone, and I won't mention whom because apparently I have to notify them with some string of characters I don't understand; someone keeps removing the links on this very useful page that lists all government registry websites and when you click on the name it takes you there. Apparently there are some pedantic reasons why the links shouldn't be there but it kind of makes the article useful to people who use it. I read the WP:EL thingy and I really think there is enough wiggle room to allow the links to stay. Especially considering that every time someone takes out the links someone puts them back in. Now I wonder is it the people who use the article that are taking them out or is it someone who really has no use at all for an article about company registers? Its locked now so I'm here trying to get it unlocked and the links put back in. — Preceding unsigned comment added by The Westernerer ( talk • contribs) 19:13, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
Pinging recent-ish contributors: @ 1.187.250.208:@ 106.220.72.36:@ 121.242.29.87:@ 139.149.1.231:@ 161.10.40.41:@ 168.168.33.250:@ 181.58.19.21:@ 186.72.109.243:@ 212.91.12.4:@ 62.190.147.220:@ 66.44.40.169:@ 78.155.36.74:@ 90.61.182.254:@ 91.196.215.202: A455bcd9 Abhisheksingh8747 Ale-sandro BD2412 Charybdisz David8302 Dewritech DumbBOT Frenchmalawi GOLDLOANS1 Ktr101 Mean as custard MelanieN Onel5969 Robin of locksley Rprpr SERutherford StephenM.S.Lai Stesmo TamilMuthu Willyinnorway Bazj ( talk) 14:14, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
Per WP:ELBURDEN, I've restored the article to a version without the links. I don't see consensus swinging toward inclusion, and editors have had a month to make a case. -- Ronz ( talk) 22:01, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
Does Wikipedia:External_links#Links_in_lists have an applicable exception here?: "This section does not apply if the external link is serving as a citation for a stand-alone list entry that otherwise meets that list's inclusion criteria." SERutherford ( talk) 02:30, 14 April 2016 (UTC)
I guess in the scheme of things, and considering I can look up a list of prostitution companies on Wikipedia, this List of company registers, that probably should be List of company registers worldwide, seems proper since we have:
Would it make sense to have external links put into footnoted citations, similar to Elasticsearch? The template {{ cite web}} could be made to work as these are almost entirely governmental/ministry websites. SERutherford ( talk) 20:48, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
His 13 April contributions all appear to be external links to TechStory corporate page - with a column of material related to the Wikipedia subject -- the rest of the space relating to the corporation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.71.159.231 ( talk) 06:26, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
Please take a moment to review and comment at WT:External links#What's so special about broadcast media articles?. -- Izno ( talk) 11:46, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
I have a question about
www
This link has been added to Criticism of Atheism by user:Krshwunk - Atheist Murderers. Apart from the offensiveness, it doesn't add to the article and seems to have been written by a religious person (possibly Krshwunk) with a great big axe to grind. I've tried discussing it on the article's talk page, but I'm not getting anywhere. I don't think this link belongs anywhere on Wikipedia. PepperBeast (talk) 20:13, 13 June 2016 (UTC)
I note that user:Krshwunk has a record of adding similar ELs to WP articles. For example, the history of Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious shows (1 May 2013) the deletion of an EL he added, with the comment by the deleting editor that they are "removing site that fails WP:EL rules quite dramatically - just some crazy fringe theory on a free blog site by some random person off the street". -- Jmc ( talk) 00:13, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
I'm surprised this thread has gotten as long as it has. This is clearly neither a WP:RS, nor a fit WP:EL, and it was added by someone with a COI. There's no way we should be including links to it from anywhere. All of the discussion about atheists, criticism, etc. is secondary. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 14:34, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
I am also surprised that this thread had gone on as long as it has, but for the opposite reason. The whole point of external links is that it should be much easier to post than sources in a page. Yes, there are guidelines as to what to put and what to avoid. I went to the Star Wars Wikipedia page and saw the external link to the Star Wars Facebook page (which also seems to be a COI), yet #10 is avoid social networking sites with no exceptions listed. You can go to other popular Wikipedia pages and clearly see how they bend the guidelines (not rules) of the external links. But in the example of "Atheist Murderers", I can't even see how it bends any of the guidelines clearly. Instead, it provides interesting, useful, and relevant information to "Criticism of atheism". So why do you think people are trying to find rules against this more than external links on popular pages that go to personal sites. BlazePhillips ( talk) 18:07, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
Unless someone without a COI wants to make an argument for this site as an appropriate external link, this can probably be closed. As far as I can see there is clear consensus among other participants here (and it seems rather obvious). — Rhododendrites talk \\ 19:16, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
User:Krshwunk, the conflict of interest is that you have a relation with the information that you are adding - you own the site that you are linking to. Now, that does not forbid you to edit with that type of information (it is not 'forbidden' to link to your own sites and similar), however, care is to be taken. The general practice in such cases is strict BRD - boldly add, if someone complains (reverts) you don't add again but argue in favour. That is also in line with WP:EL, though that is a bit stricter: the burden of proving that a link is actually needed on a page is on the person who wants to add it - which IMHO goes a bit further as it would require reasoning before addition, and in case of this link (where you are biased as the owner and hence would more likely consider it a net positive) you might have been better on the safe side of suggesting on the talkpage and allowing sufficient time for discussion (or just leave it at a suggestion). Pushing it, especially with a COI is certainly not the way. And reading through this discussion does not show any such reasoning of why this external page is adding sufficient information to what is already there in the prose on Wikipedia, and/or covered by the other links that are there (and with that taking into account that we are writing an encyclopedia, not a linkfarm - we are not here to add external links, even if they are on topic and relevant, your first aim should be to include information in the article itself). (as such, I also oppose the addition of this link). -- Dirk Beetstra T C 06:45, 15 June 2016 (UTC)
A lack of external links or a small number of external links is not a reason to add external links.". The former could be a reason to expand the article and using the site as a reference for that (though it seems that it was already disqualified as a reliable source as well) - again per WP:EL: "
If the website or page to which you want to link includes information that is not yet a part of the article, consider using it as a source for the article, and citing it.".
In summary, here is a recap of the refutations to the main objections of adding the "atheist murderers" external link. 1) Some said the link led to an "unreliable source." However, WP:EL states that external links do not need to be a reliable source, as long as it uses reliable sources in it (which it does so meticulously). 2) Some said the link led to a personal website. However, the website does not have personal information but rather is about intellectual topics, including philosophy, history, theology, and film interpretations. 3) The link should not be included because the person (me) has a COI. However, there is no rule that states that one cannot add an external link to their own website. 4) The link leads to a website that does not contain any new information about the Wikipedia article. However, the list, in fact, has lots of information that is verifiably not included in the Wikipedia article and even includes information not on Wikipedia at all. 5) The link does not pertain to the Wikipedia article. However, the link catologues many people who have committed murder with atheism as an apparent motive, thus critiquing atheism from a moral standpoint (furthermore, it counters a rather common atheist claim that there are no atheist serial killers or mass shooters). There have been other ever-changing objections voiced such as the link hurting people's feelings, being so-called "junk," and that "it just not going to be included," though these obviously do not constitute valid objections, and I trust that they will not be made again. I know a lot of people might be uncomfortable with the material it contains, but let's not object to knowledge and let's actually apply Wikipedia's guidelines as they are actually stated. So, once again, does anyone have a single legitimate reason for banning the external link? Krshwunk ( talk) 09:04, 15 June 2016 (UTC)
Given WP:ELBURDEN and WP:BLP, I don't understand why this discussion wasn't closed after a few comments. Krshwunk was lucky not to be blocked. -- Ronz ( talk) 18:30, 15 June 2016 (UTC)
On the page for Adriana Lima the reference currently known as reference 7 (Adriana Lima talks about her mixed heritage") links to a video which appears to infringe on copyright. Is it valid for this reference to be used? 62.64.152.154 ( talk) 20:18, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
Not sure if this is acceptable just pinging someone who knows, Mlpearc ( open channel) 20:27, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
Well, User:Mlpearc, I do have issues. 99% of those edits fail our inclusion standards. We are not a linkfarm or internet directory. Most of those pages are very large, and contain a plethora of references. For most of these pages, the content that gets added though these pages is not adding anything beyond the content that is already on the pages or which is not already covered in the other pages. These additions in the contributions by user:153.228.194.82 completely fail WP:ELNO #1 at the very least, and are ignoring the rest of the external links guideline, as well as the relevant parts of our policy/pillar 'What Wikipedia is Not'.
You are completely right in considering that the inclusion, on a case-by-case basis, needs discussion, and I think that on most of the pages where they were here added they should not be. These mass-additions are hence spam (by the definition that Wikipedia uses for it).
I will revert all of these additions. -- Dirk Beetstra T C 03:28, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
The community thinks {{ Discogs artist}} and {{ IMDb name}} are useful. These templates survived TfD; see Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2012 December 7#Template:Discogs artist and Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2013 October 5#Template:IMDb name. If the articles do not have these templates, we can add them. 153.174.15.48 ( talk) 08:33, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
( edit conflict) @ 153.204.141.70: Beetstra Has answered your question a couple of times, and the answer is excessive lists can dwarf articles and detract from the purpose of Wikipedia Mlpearc ( open channel) 13:56, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
@ 153.205.229.33: what was repeatedly explained and linked was that the existence or use on other pages is not an excuse for adding it to others. On by far most, if not all, of these 40 pages the link was superfluous. That it is there on thousands of other pages may simply mean that it is superfluous on a large part of those thousands of pages as well. But these 40 pages were by far the best examples of where this link is utterly superfluous - most are pages with separately linked discographies and with a plethora of references and links. Their use on pages which are far from complete is questionable (after all, the information can be incorporated in Wikipedia, as has been done for many already - but one could argue that the link could help others to fast information to expand the page), and on pages which are of similar nature as these 40 they should all be removed as they do not lead to more information that cannot be incorporated. In any case, it is not an excuse to add more. -- Dirk Beetstra T C 11:09, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
Discogs, like Imdb, is indeed WP:UGC and should never be used as a reference. However, there is a long-standing precedent of using it as an external link. That's why we have the templates and why it appears in so many articles.
I think the mass revert of the user's additions is a completely inappropriate and WP:BITEy reflex. Adding an oft-used template to an article certainly does not require a discussion on that talk page first. If someone has reason to object to it, then of course consensus can emerge not to include it. But adding it is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. Adding it to 41 pages (presuming every single one of the user's edits were adding that template), and then stopping as soon as he/she was asked to stop, is not some egregious example of "mass changes". It's use of a template in the way it's supposed to be used. If there are particular pages where it is not appropriate, then remove it from those, but mass reverting all of the users edits is ridiculous. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 21:17, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
The article on Loser's Plateau has an external link labelled "Loser's Webpage."
I have no idea if that link is valid or not.
Darklight Shadows 21:21, 9 August 2016 (UTC)
I came across the addition in the last hour to A Clean, Well-Lighted Place of an external link to a review on what I would characterize as a user-driven, user-written review site, LitReact.com. I removed it and another one the same user had added, and then ran an external link search for other uses on the site. There were 37. After removing seven of them, it occurred to me that it might be worthwhile to check with others first whether my assessment of this website as an unsuitable target for external links is correct. Opinions? Largoplazo ( talk) 11:21, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
From Sept 1st 2016, BBC iplayer is a de-facto subscription only service; With respect to TV content, you now apparently need a TV License to watch BBC TV content, regardless of whether its live, catch up or an online streamed show, not to mention that a large proportion of the content is geo-blocked for copyright reasons.
Whilst Wikipedia does not actively prevent the addition of links to subscription only or paywalled sites, contributors should in my view be discouraged from adding direct links to paywalled content, when alternative links to non-paywalled content or portions of the site could be just as easily provided.
Iplayer links are NOT stable, and typically expire after about 14-28 days, the links that expire redirecting to a main programme page, or to a holding page saying a particular episode is "not available".
Iplayer as of Sept 2016, still apparently needs the proprietary Adobe Flash plugin in some circumstances, which is not available for some users of "free-software". I've also found that Flash is somewhat buggy when used with older OS (like XP).
Given both the above issues, direct iPlayer links should be vigorously discouraged in favour of more stable and reliable links an effort should be made to replace or remove the existing links unless absolutely needed, in which case they should be marked as "subscription only" There is a currently disabled Edit Filter (no 794) for tracking the addition of iPlayer links. Sfan00 IMG ( talk) 19:56, 4 September 2016 (UTC)
Fellow editors, Apologies if this is out of scope for this noticeboard. I have been removing some links to external webpages with copyright violations from mainspace articles (per WP:COPYVIOEL); there are also a number of links to the same webpages in Talk, User talk and Wikipedia namespaces. See [18]. Do we also need to remove links from these namespaces? Many thanks in advance for any response. - Ryk72 'c.s.n.s.' 07:41, 12 September 2016 (UTC)
User:Lilreader has been adding or adjusting links External links to something called the I Love Comix Archive, whose main page requires registration, though Lilreader has been editing that fact out.
From what I can tell, I Love Comix Archive contains runs of copyrighted comic strips. Should this site be allowed as an EL? -- Tenebrae ( talk) 20:24, 11 September 2016 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive. Do not edit the contents of this page. Please direct any additional comments to the current main page. |
I'm seeing a recent uptick in additions of external links to Wolfram Alpha by different throwaway IP addresses: see e.g. Special:Contributions/37.139.70.1, Special:Contributions/78.138.97.85, Special:Contributions/82.103.129.244, Special:Contributions/103.246.96.184. Given the nearly-identical edit summary but vast distance in geolocation of these addresses, I'm guessing some abuse of proxying services to disguise the origins of these edits. My feeling is that Wolfram Alpha should by presumption be disallowed as failing WP:ELNO #9 (search engine results) but we have currently over 1000 of those links. Anyway, I'm not sure what to do here other than offer a general heads-up. — David Eppstein ( talk) 00:41, 21 November 2015 (UTC)
My addition of an external link to a totally nonprofit web page listing the oldest companies in Finland by date was deleted by Nikthestunned as a "spamlink".
It is, however, certainly not spam, but perfectly relevant information and based on long time research. Covering years up to 1879 the Finnish list is also a useful addition to Wikipedia's worldwide list up to 1699. Benevolent and relevant attemps to assist Wikipedia's readers by supplementing the global list should definitely not be dismissed as "spam", but rather encouraged.
I request the link to be reinstated. Alternatively, should my link be considered violating some other Wikipedia guideline, I request the wording of the dismissal to be changed. Calling my well meaning contribution "spam" is unjustly discrediting. Please review this case. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.89.123.43 ( talk) 09:55, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
List of Nikki and John Pranksters In Love episodes ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Currently there are 195 links to YouTube videos (one for each episode) embedded into the article. I could see how a single link to the YouTube channel might be acceptable if used as an inline citation or added to an "External links" section, but 195 embedded links does seem more like promotional spam than anything else per WP:LINKFARM and WP:ELNO. The YouTube videos all seem to be from the series' official YouTube channel so I don't think they are copyvios, but once again 195 links seems really excessive. Anyway, I am wondering if another editor (or two) might take a look and let me know if I am missing something here. Thanks in advance. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 05:13, 16 December 2015 (UTC)
I just reverted two IP edits to FanDuel and DraftKings that inserted affiliate spam links to both articles, while using an edit summary of "rm affiliate spam" -- clearly indicating that the user was aware that this kind of spam doesn't belong in the article. I guess the user thought that nobody would analyze the content, and would read only the edit summary. A review of the history of both articles shows that this is an ongoing problem; indeed, both articles have been semi-protected (in the past) for periods of time to help reduce this and other forms of vandalism.
The purpose of this report is not to report a specific user (I've placed a template warning on the IP user's talk page, for whatever good it will do), but to suggest that alternative means need to be used to prevent this in the future. I wonder if an edit filter can be created that will nip this in the bud, while still allowing normal editing of the page? It appears that both sites use affiliate marketing codes that have pretty well-defined characteristics -- exactly what is needed for an effective edit filter. (Please ping when replying here.) Etamni | ✉ | ✓ 16:51, 25 December 2015 (UTC)
I see my last query wasn't responded, but every hopeful, is using pages such as this one [1] suitable for the author's article? Doug Weller talk 14:39, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
Hello there, There is a series of links from palgrave.com to around 400+ pages and many of the links are dead and most of the links will take you to the main page of the website so i just want to know what we can do. Do we need to use wayback machine to recover dead links or better to remove because this website also sell books and as per WP:LINKSTOAVOID it says, "Instead of linking to a commercial book site, consider the "ISBN" linking format, which gives readers an opportunity to search a wide variety of free and non-free book sources." Thank You – GSS ( talk) 20:01, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
Libor Nováček ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Was wondering if someone wouldn't mind checking the external links for this article? I clicked on a few and they were blocked by my PC for containing Malware. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 12:06, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
On Social Justice Warrior a couple editors, who are also calling for the article to be deleted and contesting numerous other improvements to the article, are saying an U rban Dictionary link is not a suitable external link. Several of the sources use the Urban Dictionary definition, including the Washington Post, lending credibility to it. I also don't believe it is a violation of WP:EL and in fact it seems to support this being used as an external link, saying it's meant for "sites that fail to meet criteria for reliable sources yet still contain information about the subject of the article from knowledgeable sources." Ghost of hugh glass ( talk) 14:03, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
@ Ghost of hugh glass: - My primary concern was that it was not adding anything (that can not be included here). In the specific example ( Social Justice Warrior) that is exactly so (I now checked). It contains mainly the same text, the only addition would be some examples (which could also be written in the article on Wikipedia). Hence, per WP:ELNO, this link should not be there (and likely not on many pages on Wikipedia). -- Dirk Beetstra T C 12:56, 27 January 2016 (UTC)
Are [2] and [3] acceptable external links for the articles Mahdi and Masih ad-Dajjal? They would most certainly not pass as reliable sources, being self-published and all that (with a dash of WP:COI), but the external links guidelines do not seem to care about reliability. Pinging FreeatlastChitchat and Elzbenz, who have also dealt with Abdullahfaruqibnibrahimy's links, but I'd like some 3rd party opinions too. Thanks! - HyperGaruda ( talk) 19:46, 21 February 2016 (UTC)
The following has been repeatedly added to Ark of the Covenant by two editors with few or no other edits:
My instinct is that this is nothing more than spam. Others' views would be appreciated.- Mr X 03:31, 22 February 2016 (UTC)
Drexel Dragons men's lacrosse ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
The external link for "Drexel Lacrosse A History of the Heart - William Thayer" seems to be setup so that the pdf file it's linked to downloads to your computer, instead of opening up in your web browser. Not sure if this kind of thing is acceptable per WP:ELNO. It could just be the way my computer is set up, but even so not sure if something needs to be added to the link's description so that the reader is aware that the file may start to download. Is there a way to tweak the url address so that clicking on the link does not automatically start to download the file? -- Marchjuly ( talk) 00:17, 16 February 2016 (UTC)
Hello everyone,
I was referred here by another Wikipedia user concerning the usage of external links on pages like List of datasets for machine learning research and Comparison of datasets in machine learning. First, some background:
Machine learning is a field where automated methods are used to find patterns in data. It has been argued [1] that the availability of high-quality training datasets is actually far more important than the availability of new machine learning algorithms. It appears that in many/most cases, great technological leaps in machine learning performance come when a new high-quality dataset is made available, not a new algorithm (some examples of this given in [1]).
For these reasons, Wikipedia should have some record of the groundbreaking datasets that have helped to significantly advance machine learning research. Since the vast majority of individual datasets do not have their own articles (and despite their importance in the field, probably shouldn't), articles like List of datasets for machine learning research and Comparison of datasets in machine learning can serve to aggregate the most important among them.
To maximize the utility of these pages, they contain external links to the webpages where the datasets mentioned can actually be downloaded and used. In both of the example articles given, these links are placed in the rows of the tables. I wanted to open up a discussion here about the usage of these links and their compatibility with WP:EL. And, if they are not compatible, begin the process of discussing an exception. I see in WP:EL that "lists themselves should not be composed of external links." However, it also says "This section does not apply if the external link is serving as a citation for a stand-alone list entry that otherwise meets that list's inclusion criteria."
In closing, I believe pages like these will become great resources to the machine learning community as it continues to develop. I look forward to discussing with everyone. DATAKEEPER ✉ 18:49, 26 February 2016 (UTC)
@ Datakeeper, Prevalence, and Stesmo: - First, the way they are currently linked is inappropriate, at best they should be turned into references, or in a far-to-the-right column with 'link to dataset'. And for the latter I would still disagree that these links serve Wikipedia's purpose. They are in a way nothing different from direct links to the websites of restaurants in New York on the article 'restaurants in New York'. And both of those fail WP:NOTYELLOW.
Now, regarding the first entry in the first table on List of datasets for machine learning research there is an external link to FERET. That is a notable entry in itself, as witnessed by our internal article FERET. The external link there should hence be converted to the internal link to the internal page - and on the article FERET a link to the dataset (or better, the 'homepage' of the dataset) IS appropriate (and that is there). It does not belong in the list. I haven't checked any other cases, but I presume that there are many which do have internal links possible.
So shortly, all external links in the first column should go, and should all turn into internal Wikilinks. For items that are not notable in Wikipedia terms (hence, are redlinks) sufficient references should show some notability (as in, reliable independent sources must at least have 'noticed' the database), and could contain a reference to the 'homepage' of the dataset. For items that fail that notability test, they should simply be removed from the list (what we see on other similar list-pages is that people just add their self-crafted example to such lists - anyone can make a database of something, post it online and link it here, that is not enough for being mentioned in Wikipedia). -- Dirk Beetstra T C 05:30, 2 March 2016 (UTC)
As explained above, the links violate WP:EL and WP:NOTYELLOW. Changing the links to references only makes the problem worse by pretending that the links are references when in fact they are there to serve as a directory. The solution is to write the article first, for each notable entry, then link to the relevant article in the list. -- Ronz ( talk) 23:53, 2 March 2016 (UTC)
@ Datakeeper: - I think it would be good to see what happens when you try to link the proper articles. I do hope that the references for the then redlinked ones do show reasonable notability over being just mentioned as 'yet another dataset'. As I said above, everyone can create databases of whatever, that does not mean that it should be in the list. I think that the bar should be that the dataset is being used in some reasonably visible or important way. -- Dirk Beetstra T C 06:31, 3 March 2016 (UTC)
@ Ronz: Thanks for the input. As was discussed above I'm fine moving the links out of the table altogether. I suggested what others suggested, moving the links to the end of each reference as a link to "dataset homepage." This could easily be done with a script. I do not plan to change the links in the first column of the article to internal Wikipedia references, because most datasets (even those used in a great deal of research) do not really warrant their own articles and so they don't exist. @ Beetstra: this applies to your comments too. I do want to address your concern that "everyone can create databases of whatever." This is definitely true! I wanted to assure you that, as evidenced by the references, every single item in this article is not only of value to machine learning research, but has been referenced in one or more academic journal publications on the topic. This list is not just an indiscriminate group of datasets from various places.
So, to resolve this and avoid violation of WP:NOTYELLOW & WP:EL, there are two options I see:
Because it could be argued from WP:EL that these links are indeed serving as citations, I think the second option is the better of the two. I've heard opinions on both sides and I think the second one will result in a better and more useful article (while abiding by WP:EL) as it grows as a resource for the machine learning community. How about I try it out? I'm fine personally making these edits. Thanks everyone. DATAKEEPER ✉ 19:02, 3 March 2016 (UTC)
As I said, I'm fine removing the links if that is the consensus. It seems to be the majority. I'd be happy to resolve this. DATAKEEPER ✉ 22:12, 3 March 2016 (UTC)
Hi. I have been discussing with @ Srich32977: about his additions of a Goodreads EL template to BLP articles. See our discussion here. I think this is a judgement call, what do others thinks?
I'm inclined towards it failing Links normally to be avoided on points 1, 10, 14 and 17.
Example of some of the links added:
Thanks. -- Escape Orbit (Talk) 12:14, 30 March 2016 (UTC)
Goodreads is a wiki and what's worse, it presents quantitative rankings that aggregate the "votes" of site visitors. There's no expert editorial control and no authority who's responsible for the content. Moreover, while there are numerous sources for highly notable authors such as Adam Smith, there are few such RS lists of the publications of less notable or borderline writers. Thus, the use of Goodreads or similar sites distorts the encyclopedia by adding WP:UNDUE content with the implication that the Goodreads page lists noteworthy works and valid commentary on the authors. Goodreads should never be used as an external link. SPECIFICO talk 13:05, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
These comments are not correct. The basic (bibliographic) data in Goodreads is controlled by the 125 staff members. It is not a wiki because the only content that members can edit is their own commentary. Those user comments and ratings are but one aspect of Goodreads. There is no implication that only noteworthy words are listed. The commentary provided by members is no more valid that the commentary we see here on this talk page. (The members are simply people who have read particular works and given their reactions.) So what if "less notable or borderline" authors are listed? WorldCat lists a lot of writers too, and it provides a system for rating and reviewing works. The big difference is that a number of books and writers listed on Goodreads have such ratings whereas WorldCat users do not generally contribute. – S. Rich ( talk) 21:18, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
{{Goodreads book|29047551-isidro|Isidro}}
gives us a newer edition (2015) that is not listed by WorldCat.) Now compare this listing to the WorldCat listing:
OCLC
861553018. Hmmmmm! WorldCat allows users to review and rate the book. (Shameful!) And WorldCat has a link where users can buy the book. (Evil!!) Do you need more documentation? Look at
OCLC
921035182 where we see a user review and links to Amazon and B&N. Come on, per the comments above WP should eliminate WorldCat links from its pages. Is that what you're suggesting? I think not. Having Goodreads links is simply what
Lorcan Dempsey calls an "addressable
knowledge base". E.g., WP "makes it easy to include in any online communications a pointer to more knowledge on any topic...." Goodreads, like the OCLC, is another pointer. –
S. Rich (
talk) 15:02, 5 April 2016 (UTC)15:09, 5 April 2016 (UTC)
@ Srich32977: I know you read the suggestion of people complaining that this is not a reliable source, but the basic point here is that this is NOT a proper external link on many of the pages where you added it to, it simply does not give any additional information beyond what is already there, or what can not already be included. You even argue that "Goodreads, like the OCLC, is another pointer", you are hence plainly linkfarming there. It may only be a good temporary external link on some minor stubs where it can be used to expand the article further, but even that is a stretch (we have talkpages for those suggestions).
I think the overall conclusion is here, that you are being asked to remove the links again, and then get first proper consensus before inclusion of this link (per WP:EL). Can you please remove the links and get a proper consensus for the use of these templates? -- Dirk Beetstra T C 03:48, 6 April 2016 (UTC) (ping edit: @ Srich32977: -- Dirk Beetstra T C 04:51, 6 April 2016 (UTC))
Recently, I cleared out a couple of linkfarms of 'popular songs' (obviously unreferenced as to evidence their popularity), with every song linked to a YouTube interpretation. While I already wonder whether these lists are supposed to be there, I think that they should not link to every available YouTube at all ( WP:NOT#DIRECTORY and so). I now find out that they have been reverted all back in.
Examples:
It appear to be some IPs who do everything they can to get those lists there, and to keep these lists there. Any suggestions? -- Dirk Beetstra T C 12:51, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
And likely many from Special:Contributions/2.92.89.216 etc. If this persists we may need an edit filter to keep this clean. -- Dirk Beetstra T C 03:19, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
Another source of pages: to clearout these linkfarms: Special:Contributions/Igor508. -- Dirk Beetstra T C 03:53, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
George J. Morgan ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Would it be acceptable per WP:EL to add www.dropbox.com/sh/e5mqda5g1c14ox5/YJvzhnONiS?preview=zIrish+Times+Obituary+1979.jpg as an external link for the article? I've been searching for an online version of this in the archives of the The Irish Times and did find this which I believe includes a link to the same article/obituary, but it requires a subscription to see. The link to the photo comes from an external link to a drop box of images which was embedded into the article here in January 2014. I'm not sure if adding an external link to all of those photos is appropriate per WP:COPYLINK, but I am wondering if linking to a scan/photo of a newspaper obituary is considered OK. Thanks in advance. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 04:46, 14 April 2016 (UTC)
The featured article about " Something", a popular Beatles song written by George Harrison, contains an external link to MetroLyrics, an online song lyrics provider. Along with the lyrics, MetroLyrics includes "SONGWRITERS MAX GREEN, CRAIG EDWARD MABBITT, BRIAN MONEY, ROBERT ORTIZ, JOHN FELDMANN". [4] This is not an isolated error. MetroLyrics miscredits songwriters for several well-known songs, including:
MetroLyrics stresses that it licenses lyrics: "Leading The Way – MetroLyrics was the first lyrics site to provide users with licensed song lyrics and to compensate copyright holders for the content through its partnership with Gracenote." [11] However, their links seem to go against WP policies and guidelines. WP:ELNEVER states "material that violates the copyrights of others per contributors' rights and obligations should not be linked." How are the copyright holders rights being respected (and compensated) if they are misidentified? WP:ELNO provides "one should generally avoid providing external links to: ... 2. Any site that misleads the reader by use of factually inaccurate material ..." Links to inaccurate information, especially in WP:Featured articles, reflects poorly on WP.
Most of the external links to MetroLyrics were added to song articles by
User:LyricsBot (the "Something" link was added 7 September 2013)
[12] and were not subject to fact checking. Do song lyrics links meet WP policies and guidelines if the lyrics are mostly correct, but the songwriters are miscredited?
—
Ojorojo (
talk) 21:11, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
Two proposals to address these issues are open for discussion:
Thanks for your interest. — Ojorojo ( talk) 19:25, 15 April 2016 (UTC)
What's your take on {{ Wikitree name}} being used in the external links section? I think it runs afoul of WP:ELNO #12, although others have disagreed and stated its both stable and has a large number of editors. More importantly, though, I think it just doesn't add anything of value to our articles.
In the single article it's currently in use in, David Niven, the "biography" on Niven hosted by Wikitree just references Wikipedia. The only value added is perhaps the family tree, but any ancestors relevant to an encyclopedia should be covered in the article itself. Additionally, there's no references provided for the family tree. I question whether this provides reliable enough information to be included in the external links.
I'd like opinions on this before I take this to TfD. Note the past TfD of a related template here. ~ Rob Talk 16:42, 16 April 2016 (UTC)
Pierrot ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
While looking at the article Pierrot, I noticed that there were quite a few external links embedded into the body of the article. (See this old version for reference.) My understanding of WP:EL#Links in lists, MOS:LINK#Link titles, WP:RDD and WP:CS#Avoid embedded links is that external links are not allowed to be embedded into articles in this manner; therefore, I was bold and removed them all (49 links in total) here, here and here. Another editor saw my edits and has asked for clarification at User talk:Marchjuly#Pierrot, so I am posting here to see what others have to say. I looked at the links that were embedded to see if they were embedded citations or could be converted to inline citations, but didn't think that was the case for any of them. There were also some links to YouTube or other videos as well as (online) complete published works which might be problematic per WP:COPYLINK. Anyway, if I was too bold and shouldn't have removed the links, then I will happily go back and self-revert. Thanks in advance. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 13:59, 16 April 2016 (UTC)
I probably did not express myself clearly, which is understandable, as I thinking through some of these issues, and they are not all clearcut to me.
I start with the well=know quote from Jimmy, in Wikipedia:Prime objective:
That may be overly broad but is not as broad as some imagine, if one emphasizes “understanding” (as used in the article knowledge). For example, an alphabetic list of all the words used in a recent email to a friend is a verifiable fact, but we don’t even need to lean on our notability guideline to exclude it, we can lean on the word “understanding” and assert that such a list doesn’t meaningfully contribute to our understanding of the world.
Now imagine an article about Mary, in which the following statement is made: ‘’Mary worked at Joe’s Restaurant.’’ It is easy to imagine that a reader may wonder if the statement is actually true, and for that reason we think it is useful to provide a reference in which an independent reliable source states that Mary actually did work at that restaurant. If the restaurant itself is notable, we might have an article about it and we would blue link the name of the restaurant. However, an external link, or even a footnote to the official page of the restaurant would be viewed as advertising. The reader is interested in the truth of the assertion, but isn’t necessarily interested in more information about the restaurant itself.
In contrast, if a reader is reading an article about Pierrot, and that article includes a relevant list of notable works, such as Edna St. Vincent Millay’s ‘’Aria da Capo’’, it is quite plausible that the reader will be interested in that play. In an ideal world we will have a separate article about the play itself, and perhaps we will someday, but short of that, I think a footnote that brings the reader to the play itself provides a valuable service and one that would be expected by the reader of an encyclopedia.
The editor has provided an enormous service by tracking down and identifying some of these valuable historical documents. We can continue to debate how best to include such information in this article, but I don’t see the footnotes as comparable to advertising.-- S Philbrick (Talk) 14:29, 18 April 2016 (UTC)
Comment on ISBN suggestion (collapsed for length)
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First, I wish to emphasize that I'm a big fan of the use of ISBN's. When I was active in reviewing new articles, I often looked up and added the ISBN for hundreds of works. Our template linking to book sources provides a rich source of options for people interested in a particular work. That said, I think it fails spectacularly in this specific case you suggested. You noted that ''Behind a Watteau Picture'' has an ISBN: that template will lead the reader to "book sources" which contains 15 resources to help the reader tracked down the book, online, for sale, or at a library. Let's examine the results: Online text
Online databases
That's pretty discouraging. Not only did it not find a copy of the actual book, it did not find a single library in the world containing the book. That's the first time I ever recall getting such results on a valid ISBN. The best you can do is spend almost $20 (or more) to get a reprint. How on earth do we justify presenting results such as these to the reader, when we have a working link to the actual public domain text? |
I am troubled by the (former) inclusion of this link (currently removed):
My main concern is that it is a blog. While some think that blogs are never permitted, that’s not quite the case. They can be used when produced by an established expert on the subject matter, whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable third-party publications. (See WP:BLOGS). I don’t know enough about the author of the blog to know whether that applies, but I would not support conversion to a footnote unless it can be demonstrated that it meets the policy.-- S Philbrick (Talk) 17:08, 18 April 2016 (UTC)
One of the embedded links is to the text of Bliss Carman and Mary Perry King Kennerly’s ‘’Pas de trois’’
That link goes to the American Verse Project, whose guidelines for use includes the follow:
Individuals are allowed to use the texts freely, whether to create new editions, distribute to students, or use as a basis for multimedia products. Institutions such as universities, publishers, or online providers are required to seek permission from the Press and, in some cases, pay a fee, in order to use or distribute the texts. (Emphasis added).
It is possible this section is included because some of the material subject to copyright. The “conditions of use” section links to Access and Use Policy which states:
Given this information, I have chosen not to restore the link as a footnote, but suggest contacting the University of Michigan to clarify that they agree that the 1914 document is in the public domain and can be linked freely.-- S Philbrick (Talk) 18:52, 18 April 2016 (UTC)
In addition to the ones identified at the beginning of this section:
Well, this is my first time behind the curtain here at Wikipedia (long-time user and financial contributor) so not sure how to go about this. Someone, and I won't mention whom because apparently I have to notify them with some string of characters I don't understand; someone keeps removing the links on this very useful page that lists all government registry websites and when you click on the name it takes you there. Apparently there are some pedantic reasons why the links shouldn't be there but it kind of makes the article useful to people who use it. I read the WP:EL thingy and I really think there is enough wiggle room to allow the links to stay. Especially considering that every time someone takes out the links someone puts them back in. Now I wonder is it the people who use the article that are taking them out or is it someone who really has no use at all for an article about company registers? Its locked now so I'm here trying to get it unlocked and the links put back in. — Preceding unsigned comment added by The Westernerer ( talk • contribs) 19:13, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
Pinging recent-ish contributors: @ 1.187.250.208:@ 106.220.72.36:@ 121.242.29.87:@ 139.149.1.231:@ 161.10.40.41:@ 168.168.33.250:@ 181.58.19.21:@ 186.72.109.243:@ 212.91.12.4:@ 62.190.147.220:@ 66.44.40.169:@ 78.155.36.74:@ 90.61.182.254:@ 91.196.215.202: A455bcd9 Abhisheksingh8747 Ale-sandro BD2412 Charybdisz David8302 Dewritech DumbBOT Frenchmalawi GOLDLOANS1 Ktr101 Mean as custard MelanieN Onel5969 Robin of locksley Rprpr SERutherford StephenM.S.Lai Stesmo TamilMuthu Willyinnorway Bazj ( talk) 14:14, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
Per WP:ELBURDEN, I've restored the article to a version without the links. I don't see consensus swinging toward inclusion, and editors have had a month to make a case. -- Ronz ( talk) 22:01, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
Does Wikipedia:External_links#Links_in_lists have an applicable exception here?: "This section does not apply if the external link is serving as a citation for a stand-alone list entry that otherwise meets that list's inclusion criteria." SERutherford ( talk) 02:30, 14 April 2016 (UTC)
I guess in the scheme of things, and considering I can look up a list of prostitution companies on Wikipedia, this List of company registers, that probably should be List of company registers worldwide, seems proper since we have:
Would it make sense to have external links put into footnoted citations, similar to Elasticsearch? The template {{ cite web}} could be made to work as these are almost entirely governmental/ministry websites. SERutherford ( talk) 20:48, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
His 13 April contributions all appear to be external links to TechStory corporate page - with a column of material related to the Wikipedia subject -- the rest of the space relating to the corporation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.71.159.231 ( talk) 06:26, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
Please take a moment to review and comment at WT:External links#What's so special about broadcast media articles?. -- Izno ( talk) 11:46, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
I have a question about
www
This link has been added to Criticism of Atheism by user:Krshwunk - Atheist Murderers. Apart from the offensiveness, it doesn't add to the article and seems to have been written by a religious person (possibly Krshwunk) with a great big axe to grind. I've tried discussing it on the article's talk page, but I'm not getting anywhere. I don't think this link belongs anywhere on Wikipedia. PepperBeast (talk) 20:13, 13 June 2016 (UTC)
I note that user:Krshwunk has a record of adding similar ELs to WP articles. For example, the history of Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious shows (1 May 2013) the deletion of an EL he added, with the comment by the deleting editor that they are "removing site that fails WP:EL rules quite dramatically - just some crazy fringe theory on a free blog site by some random person off the street". -- Jmc ( talk) 00:13, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
I'm surprised this thread has gotten as long as it has. This is clearly neither a WP:RS, nor a fit WP:EL, and it was added by someone with a COI. There's no way we should be including links to it from anywhere. All of the discussion about atheists, criticism, etc. is secondary. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 14:34, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
I am also surprised that this thread had gone on as long as it has, but for the opposite reason. The whole point of external links is that it should be much easier to post than sources in a page. Yes, there are guidelines as to what to put and what to avoid. I went to the Star Wars Wikipedia page and saw the external link to the Star Wars Facebook page (which also seems to be a COI), yet #10 is avoid social networking sites with no exceptions listed. You can go to other popular Wikipedia pages and clearly see how they bend the guidelines (not rules) of the external links. But in the example of "Atheist Murderers", I can't even see how it bends any of the guidelines clearly. Instead, it provides interesting, useful, and relevant information to "Criticism of atheism". So why do you think people are trying to find rules against this more than external links on popular pages that go to personal sites. BlazePhillips ( talk) 18:07, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
Unless someone without a COI wants to make an argument for this site as an appropriate external link, this can probably be closed. As far as I can see there is clear consensus among other participants here (and it seems rather obvious). — Rhododendrites talk \\ 19:16, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
User:Krshwunk, the conflict of interest is that you have a relation with the information that you are adding - you own the site that you are linking to. Now, that does not forbid you to edit with that type of information (it is not 'forbidden' to link to your own sites and similar), however, care is to be taken. The general practice in such cases is strict BRD - boldly add, if someone complains (reverts) you don't add again but argue in favour. That is also in line with WP:EL, though that is a bit stricter: the burden of proving that a link is actually needed on a page is on the person who wants to add it - which IMHO goes a bit further as it would require reasoning before addition, and in case of this link (where you are biased as the owner and hence would more likely consider it a net positive) you might have been better on the safe side of suggesting on the talkpage and allowing sufficient time for discussion (or just leave it at a suggestion). Pushing it, especially with a COI is certainly not the way. And reading through this discussion does not show any such reasoning of why this external page is adding sufficient information to what is already there in the prose on Wikipedia, and/or covered by the other links that are there (and with that taking into account that we are writing an encyclopedia, not a linkfarm - we are not here to add external links, even if they are on topic and relevant, your first aim should be to include information in the article itself). (as such, I also oppose the addition of this link). -- Dirk Beetstra T C 06:45, 15 June 2016 (UTC)
A lack of external links or a small number of external links is not a reason to add external links.". The former could be a reason to expand the article and using the site as a reference for that (though it seems that it was already disqualified as a reliable source as well) - again per WP:EL: "
If the website or page to which you want to link includes information that is not yet a part of the article, consider using it as a source for the article, and citing it.".
In summary, here is a recap of the refutations to the main objections of adding the "atheist murderers" external link. 1) Some said the link led to an "unreliable source." However, WP:EL states that external links do not need to be a reliable source, as long as it uses reliable sources in it (which it does so meticulously). 2) Some said the link led to a personal website. However, the website does not have personal information but rather is about intellectual topics, including philosophy, history, theology, and film interpretations. 3) The link should not be included because the person (me) has a COI. However, there is no rule that states that one cannot add an external link to their own website. 4) The link leads to a website that does not contain any new information about the Wikipedia article. However, the list, in fact, has lots of information that is verifiably not included in the Wikipedia article and even includes information not on Wikipedia at all. 5) The link does not pertain to the Wikipedia article. However, the link catologues many people who have committed murder with atheism as an apparent motive, thus critiquing atheism from a moral standpoint (furthermore, it counters a rather common atheist claim that there are no atheist serial killers or mass shooters). There have been other ever-changing objections voiced such as the link hurting people's feelings, being so-called "junk," and that "it just not going to be included," though these obviously do not constitute valid objections, and I trust that they will not be made again. I know a lot of people might be uncomfortable with the material it contains, but let's not object to knowledge and let's actually apply Wikipedia's guidelines as they are actually stated. So, once again, does anyone have a single legitimate reason for banning the external link? Krshwunk ( talk) 09:04, 15 June 2016 (UTC)
Given WP:ELBURDEN and WP:BLP, I don't understand why this discussion wasn't closed after a few comments. Krshwunk was lucky not to be blocked. -- Ronz ( talk) 18:30, 15 June 2016 (UTC)
On the page for Adriana Lima the reference currently known as reference 7 (Adriana Lima talks about her mixed heritage") links to a video which appears to infringe on copyright. Is it valid for this reference to be used? 62.64.152.154 ( talk) 20:18, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
Not sure if this is acceptable just pinging someone who knows, Mlpearc ( open channel) 20:27, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
Well, User:Mlpearc, I do have issues. 99% of those edits fail our inclusion standards. We are not a linkfarm or internet directory. Most of those pages are very large, and contain a plethora of references. For most of these pages, the content that gets added though these pages is not adding anything beyond the content that is already on the pages or which is not already covered in the other pages. These additions in the contributions by user:153.228.194.82 completely fail WP:ELNO #1 at the very least, and are ignoring the rest of the external links guideline, as well as the relevant parts of our policy/pillar 'What Wikipedia is Not'.
You are completely right in considering that the inclusion, on a case-by-case basis, needs discussion, and I think that on most of the pages where they were here added they should not be. These mass-additions are hence spam (by the definition that Wikipedia uses for it).
I will revert all of these additions. -- Dirk Beetstra T C 03:28, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
The community thinks {{ Discogs artist}} and {{ IMDb name}} are useful. These templates survived TfD; see Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2012 December 7#Template:Discogs artist and Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2013 October 5#Template:IMDb name. If the articles do not have these templates, we can add them. 153.174.15.48 ( talk) 08:33, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
( edit conflict) @ 153.204.141.70: Beetstra Has answered your question a couple of times, and the answer is excessive lists can dwarf articles and detract from the purpose of Wikipedia Mlpearc ( open channel) 13:56, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
@ 153.205.229.33: what was repeatedly explained and linked was that the existence or use on other pages is not an excuse for adding it to others. On by far most, if not all, of these 40 pages the link was superfluous. That it is there on thousands of other pages may simply mean that it is superfluous on a large part of those thousands of pages as well. But these 40 pages were by far the best examples of where this link is utterly superfluous - most are pages with separately linked discographies and with a plethora of references and links. Their use on pages which are far from complete is questionable (after all, the information can be incorporated in Wikipedia, as has been done for many already - but one could argue that the link could help others to fast information to expand the page), and on pages which are of similar nature as these 40 they should all be removed as they do not lead to more information that cannot be incorporated. In any case, it is not an excuse to add more. -- Dirk Beetstra T C 11:09, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
Discogs, like Imdb, is indeed WP:UGC and should never be used as a reference. However, there is a long-standing precedent of using it as an external link. That's why we have the templates and why it appears in so many articles.
I think the mass revert of the user's additions is a completely inappropriate and WP:BITEy reflex. Adding an oft-used template to an article certainly does not require a discussion on that talk page first. If someone has reason to object to it, then of course consensus can emerge not to include it. But adding it is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. Adding it to 41 pages (presuming every single one of the user's edits were adding that template), and then stopping as soon as he/she was asked to stop, is not some egregious example of "mass changes". It's use of a template in the way it's supposed to be used. If there are particular pages where it is not appropriate, then remove it from those, but mass reverting all of the users edits is ridiculous. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 21:17, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
The article on Loser's Plateau has an external link labelled "Loser's Webpage."
I have no idea if that link is valid or not.
Darklight Shadows 21:21, 9 August 2016 (UTC)
I came across the addition in the last hour to A Clean, Well-Lighted Place of an external link to a review on what I would characterize as a user-driven, user-written review site, LitReact.com. I removed it and another one the same user had added, and then ran an external link search for other uses on the site. There were 37. After removing seven of them, it occurred to me that it might be worthwhile to check with others first whether my assessment of this website as an unsuitable target for external links is correct. Opinions? Largoplazo ( talk) 11:21, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
From Sept 1st 2016, BBC iplayer is a de-facto subscription only service; With respect to TV content, you now apparently need a TV License to watch BBC TV content, regardless of whether its live, catch up or an online streamed show, not to mention that a large proportion of the content is geo-blocked for copyright reasons.
Whilst Wikipedia does not actively prevent the addition of links to subscription only or paywalled sites, contributors should in my view be discouraged from adding direct links to paywalled content, when alternative links to non-paywalled content or portions of the site could be just as easily provided.
Iplayer links are NOT stable, and typically expire after about 14-28 days, the links that expire redirecting to a main programme page, or to a holding page saying a particular episode is "not available".
Iplayer as of Sept 2016, still apparently needs the proprietary Adobe Flash plugin in some circumstances, which is not available for some users of "free-software". I've also found that Flash is somewhat buggy when used with older OS (like XP).
Given both the above issues, direct iPlayer links should be vigorously discouraged in favour of more stable and reliable links an effort should be made to replace or remove the existing links unless absolutely needed, in which case they should be marked as "subscription only" There is a currently disabled Edit Filter (no 794) for tracking the addition of iPlayer links. Sfan00 IMG ( talk) 19:56, 4 September 2016 (UTC)
Fellow editors, Apologies if this is out of scope for this noticeboard. I have been removing some links to external webpages with copyright violations from mainspace articles (per WP:COPYVIOEL); there are also a number of links to the same webpages in Talk, User talk and Wikipedia namespaces. See [18]. Do we also need to remove links from these namespaces? Many thanks in advance for any response. - Ryk72 'c.s.n.s.' 07:41, 12 September 2016 (UTC)
User:Lilreader has been adding or adjusting links External links to something called the I Love Comix Archive, whose main page requires registration, though Lilreader has been editing that fact out.
From what I can tell, I Love Comix Archive contains runs of copyrighted comic strips. Should this site be allowed as an EL? -- Tenebrae ( talk) 20:24, 11 September 2016 (UTC)