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Nominator's rationale: The form "People executed by..." is preferable to using a demonym in the case of multi-ethnic empires.
Laurel Lodged (
talk) 20:01, 26 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Comment, probably the category is meant as executed people living under the Qing dynasty rather than executed by the Qing dynasty, but in practicie this may well coincide.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 21:01, 26 March 2023 (UTC)reply
How can the executed be still living? Was the axe not sharp enough?
Laurel Lodged (
talk) 07:30, 27 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Very funny. "People living under the Qing dynasty who were executed at the end of their life" is a bit too long.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 18:37, 27 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Query How is "Qing dynasty" a nationality? The "Qing dynasty" is a way of saying "the state ruled by the Qing royal house". That state contained multiple nationalities, ethnic groups and religions. There was no such thing as a "Qing dynasty national".
Laurel Lodged (
talk) 12:35, 28 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Oh don't be silly. This has nothing to do with ethnicity or religion; "nationality" here simply means the legal situation of being a subject of the Qing dynasty. There is nothing wrong with "Qing dynasty nationals", but you could abbreviate that as "Qing nationals" or "Qing subjects" if you prefer.
This was due to the difficulty within the Qing Empire to tell Qing nationals from Chinese people with British nationality.1
Although the Dutch treat Qing nationals cruelly, all the workers and merchants in the Dutch East Indies get their provisions from Qing nationals.2.
As a result, sultans and the Kazakhs below them who did have a relationship with the Qing began to actively consider themselves to be Qing subjects.3
Nobody is calling U.S. citizens "United States of America nationals", or Dutch citizens "Kingdom of the Netherlands nationals/subjects", because it's a mouthful, even though that is also technically correct.
Nederlandse Leeuw (
talk) 15:28, 31 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Oppose after all. While having two executions trees (one by person who is executed, the other by the executing authority) causes a lot of overlap, the simple fact is that we have those two trees and just making one hole in that structure will only cause more confusion.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 07:09, 2 April 2023 (UTC)reply
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Floods by year
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The result of the discussion was:Merge/deleteTimrollpickering (
talk) 19:00, 3 April 2023 (UTC)reply
Support in principle, per nom, but in every merge there should be a "disasters" target as well.Marcocapelle (
talk) 19:39, 26 March 2023 (UTC)reply
I struck part of my comment after I noted that nominator apparently checked whether articles already are in the disasters tree.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 19:42, 26 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Merge all per nom. There are evidently not enough notable floods per year to warrant subdivision by both location and year. –
LaundryPizza03 (
dc̄) 19:44, 26 March 2023 (UTC)reply
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Comment, the target of the first is actually the original name of the category. It has been moved out of process by
User:Aleksandr Grigoryev to its current name.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 19:05, 26 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Thanks. I've added First Hierarchs of the Ukrainian Autocephalous Orthodox Church to the nom.
Laurel Lodged (
talk) 12:40, 28 March 2023 (UTC)reply
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Accounting firms by country
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The result of the discussion was:merge per nomination. –
FayenaticLondon 20:41, 8 April 2023 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: merge per
WP:SMALLCAT, with the exception of the UK and the US (which are not part of this nomination), all categories contain only one or two accountancy firms.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 17:29, 26 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Alt use in instead of of. The firms are in the state; unlike organs of government, they are not an inherent part of the state.
Laurel Lodged (
talk) 17:49, 26 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Moreover for organizations we mostly use "based in". Below are the rename proposals for UK and US.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 19:09, 26 March 2023 (UTC)reply
I am afraid you are right about the latter. Companies have not been aligned with organizations yet.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 05:38, 27 March 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Wikipedians who contribute to the Allemanic Wikipedias
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Category:Wikipedians who use Yabasic
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Category:Wikipedians who use Modern
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Category:Wikipedians who use Wikipedia Mobile
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Nominator's rationale: Is "Wikipedia Mobile" actually the official name of the app? It doesn't seem to be from what I see, and if not this should be renamed for clarity.
* Pppery *it has begun... 17:22, 26 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Support per nom, if for clarity alone. –
LaundryPizza03 (
dc̄) 13:27, 3 April 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Wikipedians who use Spamda
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Wikipedians in Texas by county
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The result of the discussion was:Delete/MergeTimrollpickering (
talk) 09:27, 17 April 2023 (UTC)reply
Merge all per nom. Most counties in Texas have very small populations, and these ones overlap too closely with the major cities in Texas. For instance, almost half of
Harris County, Texas, residents live in
Houston. –
LaundryPizza03 (
dc̄) 19:49, 26 March 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Wikipedians interested in Scouting memorabilia
Category:Wikipedians by alma mater: Zhejiang Conservatory of Music
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Nominator's rationale: Not a useful user category without an article on the university in question.
* Pppery *it has begun... 17:04, 26 March 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Wikipedians by alma mater: Sikkim Municipal University Directorate of Distance Education
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Nominator's rationale: Contains only a template, not a useful user category without an article on the university in question.
* Pppery *it has begun... 17:04, 26 March 2023 (UTC)reply
It did mention the directorate prior to some culling of unsourced content in 2021. So it's a thing that exists, but I don't see how it satisfies
WP:USERCAT, especially given the lack of any content.
* Pppery *it has begun... 17:44, 26 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Comment by creator: This is one of many hundreds of similar user categories which I created to fill relinks in
Special:WantedCategories. @
PamD appears to be right that this category is the result of a typo ... but my only concern is that no decision here results in an another redlinked category. Personally, I think that this whole set of alma mater categories is at best an absurd misuse of Wikipedia for social networking, and at worst a cluttersome misuse of the category system for disruptive tag-teaming purposes. However, unless and until the whole "Wikipedians by alma mater" tree is deleted, this particular piece of folly cannot be deleted solely for being a folly. And any attempt to delete the whole tree will enrage pitchfork-bearing mobs of youth whose identity seems to be heavily bound up in displaying badges of affiliation and/or location, so there is probably no point in trying. So this junk will continue to waste the time and energy of editors. --
BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (
contribs) 23:01, 26 March 2023 (UTC)reply
As far as emptying it goes, it's straightforwardly populated by the line | usercategory = Wikipedians by alma mater: Sikkim Municipal University Directorate of Distance Education in the templaye, which could just be removed. I'll leave any future discussions of user category grand plans to the future, but will provide one blast from the past:
Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/User/Archive/June 2007#Category:Wikipedians by alma mater, which went almost exactly as you thought it would.
* Pppery *it has begun... 23:14, 26 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Thanks, @
Pppery. That fix will indeed empty the category. And anyway, {{User SMU DDE}} could be deleted as unused.
That 2007 CFD is depressing, not least in its showcasing a factor I hadn't considered: that the pitchfork-carriers want articles on educational institutions to be written by people loyal to the institution rather than by neutral editors using reliable sources.
BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (
contribs) 04:25, 27 March 2023 (UTC)reply
... and
Sikkim Manipal University only references primary sources (although, to be fair, I removed a secondary source that mentioned the university once in passing, along with the content it supported)
* Pppery *it has begun... 04:28, 27 March 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Instagram Accounts with over 10M Followers
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Nominator's rationale: A case of
WP:Overcategorization#Non-defining characteristics. Even for those with many followers, they don't seem to be noted for specific counts, more often for being the most followed among certain demographics instead. It also feels like a rather minor threshold (at least compared to something like 50M) when countless accounts already have surpassed 10 million anyway.
SNUGGUMS (
talk /
edits) 14:43, 26 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Support, arbitrary threshold and the main effect of this category is to litter the category box of articles in it.
Fbergo (
talk) 15:17, 26 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Support Non-defining, and what if someone goes over and then under the arbitrary threshold? –
Muboshgu (
talk) 15:23, 26 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Delete arbitrary threshold and unnecessary - and I agree that 10m is not even that impressive. Why not at least 100? -
Ïvana (
talk) 17:11, 26 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Delete - Completely confused as to what value this category provides an encyclopedia. --
CNMall41 (
talk) 07:10, 27 March 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Recurring sporting events established before 1750
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Nominator's rationale: Clearly violates
WP:OCMISC. We should not just group together all years before 1750. There is no significance to that intersection. Delete. –
Aidan721 (
talk) 11:30, 26 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Support in principle, but perhaps split to Ancient, Medieval, 16th century etcetera. Many year categories after 1750 should be nominated for merger to century or decade level.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 12:15, 26 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Split in line with other year category trees. –
LaundryPizza03 (
dc̄) 13:31, 3 April 2023 (UTC)reply
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Nominator's rationale: rename per parent
Category:Imperial China, categorizing these administrative divisions by what they are, rather than what they are not (= no longer existing).
Marcocapelle (
talk) 07:23, 26 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Oppose and re-parent.
Category:Imperial China is just a wrong parent for all three types of administrative division, which have either preceded the Chinese Empire's foundation in 221 BCE, outlived its abolition in 1911/2, or both.
The
Circuit (administrative division) (道 dào or 路 lù) has existed in the PRC until the 1970s, so they aren't just "Imperial Chinese".
The
Commandery (China) (郡 jùn) existed from the Eastern Zhou (c. 7th century BCE) until the early Tang dynasty (c. 7th century CE, so they aren't just "Imperial Chinese".
Prefectures of China (地区 dìqū) still exist today, so they aren't just "Imperial Chinese".
In addition, there is a translation problem, as Western languages such as English have been inconsistent in how to translate these divisions. 郡 jùn were first called "commanderies" and later called "counties", even though 郡 jùn didn't change. On the other hand, the xian (also called "county"), the zhou (also called "province"), the fu and the dìqū have all been called "prefectures" in English sources, which doesn't exactly make things easier. Keeping "former" at least makes clear the divisions of the articles in question no longer exist, regardless of during which era of Chinese history they existed. It's just one of those subjects that don't really fit in the neat boxes of Ancient China - Imperial China - Modern China. Cheers,
Nederlandse Leeuw (
talk) 16:12, 31 March 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Machinima based on Halo (franchise)
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Nominator's rationale: The form "People executed by..." is preferable to using a demonym in the case of multi-ethnic empires.
Laurel Lodged (
talk) 20:01, 26 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Comment, probably the category is meant as executed people living under the Qing dynasty rather than executed by the Qing dynasty, but in practicie this may well coincide.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 21:01, 26 March 2023 (UTC)reply
How can the executed be still living? Was the axe not sharp enough?
Laurel Lodged (
talk) 07:30, 27 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Very funny. "People living under the Qing dynasty who were executed at the end of their life" is a bit too long.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 18:37, 27 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Query How is "Qing dynasty" a nationality? The "Qing dynasty" is a way of saying "the state ruled by the Qing royal house". That state contained multiple nationalities, ethnic groups and religions. There was no such thing as a "Qing dynasty national".
Laurel Lodged (
talk) 12:35, 28 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Oh don't be silly. This has nothing to do with ethnicity or religion; "nationality" here simply means the legal situation of being a subject of the Qing dynasty. There is nothing wrong with "Qing dynasty nationals", but you could abbreviate that as "Qing nationals" or "Qing subjects" if you prefer.
This was due to the difficulty within the Qing Empire to tell Qing nationals from Chinese people with British nationality.1
Although the Dutch treat Qing nationals cruelly, all the workers and merchants in the Dutch East Indies get their provisions from Qing nationals.2.
As a result, sultans and the Kazakhs below them who did have a relationship with the Qing began to actively consider themselves to be Qing subjects.3
Nobody is calling U.S. citizens "United States of America nationals", or Dutch citizens "Kingdom of the Netherlands nationals/subjects", because it's a mouthful, even though that is also technically correct.
Nederlandse Leeuw (
talk) 15:28, 31 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Oppose after all. While having two executions trees (one by person who is executed, the other by the executing authority) causes a lot of overlap, the simple fact is that we have those two trees and just making one hole in that structure will only cause more confusion.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 07:09, 2 April 2023 (UTC)reply
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Floods by year
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The result of the discussion was:Merge/deleteTimrollpickering (
talk) 19:00, 3 April 2023 (UTC)reply
Support in principle, per nom, but in every merge there should be a "disasters" target as well.Marcocapelle (
talk) 19:39, 26 March 2023 (UTC)reply
I struck part of my comment after I noted that nominator apparently checked whether articles already are in the disasters tree.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 19:42, 26 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Merge all per nom. There are evidently not enough notable floods per year to warrant subdivision by both location and year. –
LaundryPizza03 (
dc̄) 19:44, 26 March 2023 (UTC)reply
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Comment, the target of the first is actually the original name of the category. It has been moved out of process by
User:Aleksandr Grigoryev to its current name.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 19:05, 26 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Thanks. I've added First Hierarchs of the Ukrainian Autocephalous Orthodox Church to the nom.
Laurel Lodged (
talk) 12:40, 28 March 2023 (UTC)reply
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Accounting firms by country
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The result of the discussion was:merge per nomination. –
FayenaticLondon 20:41, 8 April 2023 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: merge per
WP:SMALLCAT, with the exception of the UK and the US (which are not part of this nomination), all categories contain only one or two accountancy firms.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 17:29, 26 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Alt use in instead of of. The firms are in the state; unlike organs of government, they are not an inherent part of the state.
Laurel Lodged (
talk) 17:49, 26 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Moreover for organizations we mostly use "based in". Below are the rename proposals for UK and US.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 19:09, 26 March 2023 (UTC)reply
I am afraid you are right about the latter. Companies have not been aligned with organizations yet.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 05:38, 27 March 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Wikipedians who contribute to the Allemanic Wikipedias
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Category:Wikipedians who use Yabasic
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Category:Wikipedians who use Modern
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Category:Wikipedians who use Wikipedia Mobile
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Nominator's rationale: Is "Wikipedia Mobile" actually the official name of the app? It doesn't seem to be from what I see, and if not this should be renamed for clarity.
* Pppery *it has begun... 17:22, 26 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Support per nom, if for clarity alone. –
LaundryPizza03 (
dc̄) 13:27, 3 April 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Wikipedians who use Spamda
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Wikipedians in Texas by county
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The result of the discussion was:Delete/MergeTimrollpickering (
talk) 09:27, 17 April 2023 (UTC)reply
Merge all per nom. Most counties in Texas have very small populations, and these ones overlap too closely with the major cities in Texas. For instance, almost half of
Harris County, Texas, residents live in
Houston. –
LaundryPizza03 (
dc̄) 19:49, 26 March 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Wikipedians interested in Scouting memorabilia
Category:Wikipedians by alma mater: Zhejiang Conservatory of Music
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Nominator's rationale: Not a useful user category without an article on the university in question.
* Pppery *it has begun... 17:04, 26 March 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Wikipedians by alma mater: Sikkim Municipal University Directorate of Distance Education
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Nominator's rationale: Contains only a template, not a useful user category without an article on the university in question.
* Pppery *it has begun... 17:04, 26 March 2023 (UTC)reply
It did mention the directorate prior to some culling of unsourced content in 2021. So it's a thing that exists, but I don't see how it satisfies
WP:USERCAT, especially given the lack of any content.
* Pppery *it has begun... 17:44, 26 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Comment by creator: This is one of many hundreds of similar user categories which I created to fill relinks in
Special:WantedCategories. @
PamD appears to be right that this category is the result of a typo ... but my only concern is that no decision here results in an another redlinked category. Personally, I think that this whole set of alma mater categories is at best an absurd misuse of Wikipedia for social networking, and at worst a cluttersome misuse of the category system for disruptive tag-teaming purposes. However, unless and until the whole "Wikipedians by alma mater" tree is deleted, this particular piece of folly cannot be deleted solely for being a folly. And any attempt to delete the whole tree will enrage pitchfork-bearing mobs of youth whose identity seems to be heavily bound up in displaying badges of affiliation and/or location, so there is probably no point in trying. So this junk will continue to waste the time and energy of editors. --
BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (
contribs) 23:01, 26 March 2023 (UTC)reply
As far as emptying it goes, it's straightforwardly populated by the line | usercategory = Wikipedians by alma mater: Sikkim Municipal University Directorate of Distance Education in the templaye, which could just be removed. I'll leave any future discussions of user category grand plans to the future, but will provide one blast from the past:
Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/User/Archive/June 2007#Category:Wikipedians by alma mater, which went almost exactly as you thought it would.
* Pppery *it has begun... 23:14, 26 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Thanks, @
Pppery. That fix will indeed empty the category. And anyway, {{User SMU DDE}} could be deleted as unused.
That 2007 CFD is depressing, not least in its showcasing a factor I hadn't considered: that the pitchfork-carriers want articles on educational institutions to be written by people loyal to the institution rather than by neutral editors using reliable sources.
BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (
contribs) 04:25, 27 March 2023 (UTC)reply
... and
Sikkim Manipal University only references primary sources (although, to be fair, I removed a secondary source that mentioned the university once in passing, along with the content it supported)
* Pppery *it has begun... 04:28, 27 March 2023 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Instagram Accounts with over 10M Followers
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale: A case of
WP:Overcategorization#Non-defining characteristics. Even for those with many followers, they don't seem to be noted for specific counts, more often for being the most followed among certain demographics instead. It also feels like a rather minor threshold (at least compared to something like 50M) when countless accounts already have surpassed 10 million anyway.
SNUGGUMS (
talk /
edits) 14:43, 26 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Support, arbitrary threshold and the main effect of this category is to litter the category box of articles in it.
Fbergo (
talk) 15:17, 26 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Support Non-defining, and what if someone goes over and then under the arbitrary threshold? –
Muboshgu (
talk) 15:23, 26 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Delete arbitrary threshold and unnecessary - and I agree that 10m is not even that impressive. Why not at least 100? -
Ïvana (
talk) 17:11, 26 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Delete - Completely confused as to what value this category provides an encyclopedia. --
CNMall41 (
talk) 07:10, 27 March 2023 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Recurring sporting events established before 1750
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale: Clearly violates
WP:OCMISC. We should not just group together all years before 1750. There is no significance to that intersection. Delete. –
Aidan721 (
talk) 11:30, 26 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Support in principle, but perhaps split to Ancient, Medieval, 16th century etcetera. Many year categories after 1750 should be nominated for merger to century or decade level.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 12:15, 26 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Split in line with other year category trees. –
LaundryPizza03 (
dc̄) 13:31, 3 April 2023 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale: rename per parent
Category:Imperial China, categorizing these administrative divisions by what they are, rather than what they are not (= no longer existing).
Marcocapelle (
talk) 07:23, 26 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Oppose and re-parent.
Category:Imperial China is just a wrong parent for all three types of administrative division, which have either preceded the Chinese Empire's foundation in 221 BCE, outlived its abolition in 1911/2, or both.
The
Circuit (administrative division) (道 dào or 路 lù) has existed in the PRC until the 1970s, so they aren't just "Imperial Chinese".
The
Commandery (China) (郡 jùn) existed from the Eastern Zhou (c. 7th century BCE) until the early Tang dynasty (c. 7th century CE, so they aren't just "Imperial Chinese".
Prefectures of China (地区 dìqū) still exist today, so they aren't just "Imperial Chinese".
In addition, there is a translation problem, as Western languages such as English have been inconsistent in how to translate these divisions. 郡 jùn were first called "commanderies" and later called "counties", even though 郡 jùn didn't change. On the other hand, the xian (also called "county"), the zhou (also called "province"), the fu and the dìqū have all been called "prefectures" in English sources, which doesn't exactly make things easier. Keeping "former" at least makes clear the divisions of the articles in question no longer exist, regardless of during which era of Chinese history they existed. It's just one of those subjects that don't really fit in the neat boxes of Ancient China - Imperial China - Modern China. Cheers,
Nederlandse Leeuw (
talk) 16:12, 31 March 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Machinima based on Halo (franchise)
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The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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