Category:Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Serbia files
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Category:Festivals in Port Townsend, Washington
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Support — the speedy has taken place, so I've modified the nomination for the convenience of the closer. William Allen Simpson (
talk) 06:53, 5 February 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Cultural depictions of Nikola Tesla
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Nominator's rationale:WP:NONDEF. Lots of these items are included because of merely passing mentions of Nikola Tesla, and all of them are better represented in the article
Nikola Tesla in popular culture.
fuzzy510 (
talk) 20:17, 28 January 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Festivals in Lubbock, Texas
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Category:Undefined articles needing translation from German Wikipedia
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Nominator's rationale: Not used. If topic is undefined, then the article could just be placed in the parent category.
Numberguy6 (
talk) 19:53, 28 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Support per nom. The French equivalent may be nominated too.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 23:09, 28 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Delete per nom.
Kbdank71 19:42, 3 February 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Festivals in Anacortes, Washington
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Support — the speedy has taken place, so I've modified the nomination for the convenience of the closer. William Allen Simpson (
talk) 06:49, 5 February 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Conventions in Miami Beach, Florida
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Category:Anti-Muslim sentiment in India
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Nominator's rationale: Established category naming convention. No difference in content between the two categories. Oddly enough, both categories were created the same day by different users.
BirdCities (
talk) 20:10, 20 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Or reverse merge is also ok, per further discussion below.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 20:40, 26 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Oppose -
Islam is a religion and
Muslims are a community. Sentiment against one doesn't equate to sentiment against the other. Please consult
WP:RS instead of making up your own opinions. --
Kautilya3 (
talk) 16:54, 25 January 2023 (UTC)reply
It is not a matter of "my own opinion", it's the way this categorization is organized:
Category:Anti-Muslim sentiment is a redirect to
Category:Anti-Islam sentiment. The
persecution of Muslims and
criticisms of Islam are different things, but "anti-Muslim" and "anti-Islam" are treated as interchangeable to refer to the persecution of Muslims in categories and redirects (
their own disambiguation page treats them as interchangeable). Furthermore, you are ignoring the main problem with the two categories: There is no actual difference in the actual content of the two categories. I don't see why
Demolition of the Babri Masjid is labelled as "Anti-Muslim", whereas
Haridwar hate speeches is labelled as "Anti-Islam". There are multiple sister political parties split between the two categories despite belonging to the same
Hindu nationalistfamily of organizations. If anything, this current split is more confusing than not.
BirdCities (
talk) 05:13, 26 January 2023 (UTC)reply
It wasn't always organised that way.
Category:Anti-Muslim sentiment was made a redirect some time recently. A misguided decision in my opinion. Rather
Category:Anti-Islam sentiment should have been made a redirect, just like
Category:Anti-Christianity is a redirect. There are obviously Wikipdia's systemic biases at work and I don't have the energy or inclination to fight them all. But for most of South Asia pages, "Anti-Islam" doesn't make sense.
Demolition of Babri Masjid, for instance, had to do with historical disputes regarding which community the localition originally belonged to it. It had nothing to do with the principles or practices of Islam. If you put
Demolition of Babri Masjid in a category of "Anti-Islam", I will be forced to delete the category because there are no reliable sources that support such a claim. --
Kautilya3 (
talk) 13:31, 26 January 2023 (UTC)reply
I retained
Haridwar hate speeches in the "Anti-Islam" category because the speeches were made by Hindu religious preachers, and it could be argued that they were prejudiced against the religion of Islam itself. But there is no fine distinction here. All these ridiculous niceties can be avoided if
Category:Anti-Islam sentiment is made a redirect to
Category:Anti-Muslim sentiment, which is logically the correct thing to do. --
Kautilya3 (
talk) 13:43, 26 January 2023 (UTC)reply
I support having a single category, I don't care what title it's at. Conceptually one could argue for a fine distinction, but I see no such distinction in the sources, and in the vast majority of articles in which this is used the sources are going to use language that doesn't match these titles anyway (prejudice, hate, Islamophobia...) Vanamonde (
Talk) 15:48, 26 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Oppose - There should be two categories, for the reasons that
User:Kautilya3 mentioned above: anti-Islam would denote opposition to the religion itself, while anti-Muslim indicates opposition or discrimination to a group of people. These are conceptually different categories and unless one is being deliberately obtuse, it is not a 'fine' distinction. - 06:35, 27 January 2023 (UTC) — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Naushervan (
talk •
contribs) reply
There is no way to oppress a religion without impacting the followers of that religion, so yes it is a fine distinction.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 10:26, 27 January 2023 (UTC)reply
I used the term "fine distinction" in the context of the specific page,
Haridwar hate speeches. In many other pages, the distinction is quite significant.
Most of the literature on "Anti-Islam" or "Islamophobia" is written by western authors in the western context. They are quite oblivious of the rest of the world, and especially South Asia. India has the second largest number of Muslims in the world and Islam has been in India from the time of Prophet Muhammad himself. So the issues there are quite different from those of the West. However, see this source which attempts to deal with the distinctions to some extent:
Support. This is far too fine a distinction. "There is no way to oppress a religion without impacting the [community of] followers of that religion" is correct. —
SMcCandlish☏¢ 😼 17:58, 27 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Qwerfjkltalk 13:58, 28 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Support per SMcCandlish and V93.
TrangaBellam (
talk) 18:54, 28 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Support Agreed these are fundamentally the same concept, and I doubt the creator of whichever was created last was aware of the others existence.
* Pppery *it has begun... 05:18, 29 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Support —
WP:OVERLAPCAT I'm a long-time reader/supporter of Informed Comment, and have a passable understanding of the distinctions. Agree that anti-Islam or Islamophobia is against a misunderstanding of the religion, while anti-Muslim is against the body or personification. However, these are implied motivations of activities described in the articles, not the articles themselves. Categories are not for labelling fine distinctions. Combining to one category will assist navigation and editors. William Allen Simpson (
talk) 09:22, 29 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Merge or reverse merge as overlapping categories with no clear difference. Note that there is also
Category:Islamophobia in India and
Category:Anti-Muslim violence in India. The problem may be at the higher level, maybe as the result of
this poorly-attended CfD. In my opinion there should be only a category for negative discourse on religious grounds (which should be
Category:Criticism of Islam and another category for hate & prejudice (which should probably be called Anti-Muslim sentiment) in the case of
Haridwar hate speeches, that's clearly hate speech towards Muslims as a social group, not theological debate. The clerical role of people involved in hate speech and calls to violence does not change the nature of the speech.
Place Clichy (
talk) 11:46, 29 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Thanks, I'd not found the separate
Category:Criticism of Islam. OTOH, I'm not convinced that
Haridwar hate speeches are Anti-Muslim, but not Anti-Islam. They are not expressing support for the tenets of Islam, merely against their neighbors believing such things. They oppose a/all/any different religion in their community. The name of that religion in this instance is Islam (in English). We'll need to deal with
Category:Anti-Muslim violence in India later. William Allen Simpson (
talk) 17:19, 29 January 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:American sportspeople of Asian descent
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Nominator's rationale:WP:SMALLCAT recent proliferation of tiny categories with unusual and irrelevant hierarchical organization. Southwest Asian is already empty, and has been tagged
WP:CSD#C1.
The subcategories deeper down should be nominated too (for merger, probably), otherwise the nomination misses its point.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 17:25, 11 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Go ahead. We're still waiting on a decision about your mass nominations a month or so ago. I've checked the subcategories, they are already in other parents where they should be deleted or merged. I'm working on strategically pruning this useless part of the tree. William Allen Simpson (
talk) 03:02, 12 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Let us wait until the older discussion is closed.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 19:22, 12 January 2023 (UTC)reply
CommentCategory:American sportspeople of Southwest Asian descent was tagged as a regular CSD C1 since it was empty even though it seems to be included in this nomination (no CFD tag on the page). So, unless something changes, it looks like that category will be deleted before this discussion closes. LizRead!Talk! 21:05, 14 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Keep -- These are harmless containers and should have that label. I suspect that the SW Asian category is empty because the content has been moved to Middle Eastern. This should perhaps become a cat-redirect. We may need a Central Asian sibling for the ex-Soviet republics there.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 20:05, 15 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Keep pending a larger nomination and discussion of the tree of
Category:East Asian people etc. Simply deleting sportspeople doesn't make sense given that it is a logical derivative of much larger and broader categories.--
User:Namiba 15:39, 16 January 2023 (UTC)reply
This argument makes little sense, as this is indeed part of a larger group on nominations, linked below. This effort comprehensively covers the notability of continental/regional descent categories of sportspeople and their racial implications. BTW sportspeople is the only occupation for which such categories exist. It is therefore not pending anything, and keeping only these 5 categories would create a wart.
Place Clichy (
talk) 16:10, 3 February 2023 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Qwerfjkltalk 21:07, 19 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Delete. These are not harmless as these "regional" subcategories are also a proxy for race, and are understood that way. It is perfectly fine to place the eligible national subcategories of American sportspeople directly under
American sportspeople by ethnic or national origin.
Place Clichy (
talk) 15:35, 27 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Qwerfjkltalk 13:49, 28 January 2023 (UTC)reply
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People of Al-Andalus
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The result of the discussion was:rename all per discussion.
Kbdank71 17:01, 5 February 2023 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: rename for consistency. The category tree currently contains four different formats: Al-Andalus fooers and fooers of, from and in Al-Andalus. "From" (with the exception of rulers and military personnel) is the default for the Russian Empire, Ottoman Empire and for caliphates. "Of" is sometimes ambiguous, e.g. are historians of Al-Andalus living in Al-Andalus or is Al-Andalus their topic of interest? "Al-Andalus fooers" failed earlier in
this discussion. "In" only occurs very rarely.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 18:16, 11 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Support "from" works best for multi-ethnic empires.
Laurel Lodged (
talk) 19:30, 11 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Support. The al- should be lower case per
WP:MOSAR. I am slightly unsure about "of" vs "from" in all cases. I think "from" can also be ambiguous. For example, is a slave brought to al-Andalus a "slave from al-Andalus"?
Srnec (
talk) 01:02, 12 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Caveat: I agree that the bishops categories should remain as is.
Srnec (
talk) 21:06, 19 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Support — to match previous decisions. Don't see any decision about Al-Andalus specific capitalization, this matches the others. If enslaved there, "from" there. (Marcocapelle must have a marvelous script for mass nominations, this would have taken me half a day.) William Allen Simpson (
talk) 03:22, 12 January 2023 (UTC)reply
A trick is to copy an unfolded category tree to Excel.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 07:01, 12 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Oppose for all the bishops categories. The standard format for bishops categories is "Nth- Century bishops in (Location)". No opinion on other categories.
Referencer12 (
talk) 20:53, 14 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Selectively keep -- Those categories already using "of" should be kept; and it should be dynasties of Al-A. On the other hand "from" is much better for exiles and expatriates.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 19:51, 15 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Qwerfjkltalk 21:11, 19 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Qwerfjkltalk 13:46, 28 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Oppose, Propose selectively keeping some as are and changing others to "Andalusian fooers," based on how other categories in other groups are worded (eg, RC bishops in, Andalusian rabbis, etc.) Rational: Consistency should be kept across those other groups not al-Andalus.
Referencer12 (
talk) 06:39, 1February 2023 (UTC)
This is a misunderstanding, it is not about
Andalusia (adjective Andalusian) but about
Al-Andalus (adjective, if any, Al-Andalus).
Marcocapelle (
talk) 06:54, 1 February 2023 (UTC)reply
I understand we're discussing x, not Andalusia. Then, Propose 'Andalusi' See
Andalusi Classical Music &
Andalusi Literature. This should still be done selectively, following conventions of other category groups eg Bishops, Rabbis, Historians, etc.
Referencer12 (
talk) 14:24, 1 February 2023 (UTC)reply
Oops! Sincerest apologies! 1st time partaking in one of these discussions. Wasn't meaning to make it look like more users were opposing.
Referencer12 (
talk) 03:36, 2 February 2023 (UTC)reply
Summary: previous responses have been qualified as follows:
I am not opposing any of the modifications. I guess many more categories need renaming when we change the suffix.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 18:13, 1 February 2023 (UTC)reply
OK. I've clarified that current proposal for the closer. Also, "Clergy in", just like bishops and rabbis. William Allen Simpson (
talk) 18:38, 1 February 2023 (UTC)reply
Great, thanks for taking the Clergy/Bishops/Rabbi issues into account & for working on making Wikipedia better!
Referencer12 (
talk) 03:36, 2 February 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Nigerian mythology
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Nominator's rationale:delete, as becomes clear from the articles, (West) African mythology is not limited to the state borders of Nigeria.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 12:33, 28 January 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Japanese tribes
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Oppose Speedy as not eligible. There is a draft
Draft:Bemin but no article
Bemin, so this is not eligible for Speedy processing under C2D, and none of the other above criteria apply. This would therefore need a full CFD discussion. –
FayenaticLondon 17:53, 27 January 2023 (UTC)reply
User:Immanuelle has created
Category:Bemin and moved the articles to the replacement category. I have added the new category to the nomination with the same rationale plus
WP:NONDEF.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 11:22, 5 February 2023 (UTC)reply
I made a mistake in most of the categorizations based on a confusing structure on Japanese wikipedia. The category is not needed on English wikipedia and imo should be deleted on Arabic and Japanese wikipedias. It does not seem that many if any non-Shinabe groups are independently notable. I found a reference for
Saeki people but even they are only notable for their existence before their subjugation as Bemin.
Immanuelle ❤️💚💙
(please tag me) 23:56, 5 February 2023 (UTC)reply
@
Immanuelle: Thank you. I have tagged the empty Arabic category for deletion. The Japanese
ja:category:部民 is beyond my capability to deal with, but should the English translation be left as Bemin on its Wikidata item, or can you suggest something better? Google Translate & Chrome variously suggest tribes, members, citizens. –
FayenaticLondon 15:04, 7 February 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Wikipedians interested in legal doctrines and principles
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Merge as a duplicate category. –
LaundryPizza03 (
dc̄) 04:15, 5 February 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Serbia files
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Category:Festivals in Port Townsend, Washington
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Support — the speedy has taken place, so I've modified the nomination for the convenience of the closer. William Allen Simpson (
talk) 06:53, 5 February 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Cultural depictions of Nikola Tesla
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Nominator's rationale:WP:NONDEF. Lots of these items are included because of merely passing mentions of Nikola Tesla, and all of them are better represented in the article
Nikola Tesla in popular culture.
fuzzy510 (
talk) 20:17, 28 January 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Festivals in Lubbock, Texas
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Category:Undefined articles needing translation from German Wikipedia
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Nominator's rationale: Not used. If topic is undefined, then the article could just be placed in the parent category.
Numberguy6 (
talk) 19:53, 28 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Support per nom. The French equivalent may be nominated too.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 23:09, 28 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Delete per nom.
Kbdank71 19:42, 3 February 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Festivals in Anacortes, Washington
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Support — the speedy has taken place, so I've modified the nomination for the convenience of the closer. William Allen Simpson (
talk) 06:49, 5 February 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Conventions in Miami Beach, Florida
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Category:Anti-Muslim sentiment in India
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Nominator's rationale: Established category naming convention. No difference in content between the two categories. Oddly enough, both categories were created the same day by different users.
BirdCities (
talk) 20:10, 20 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Or reverse merge is also ok, per further discussion below.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 20:40, 26 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Oppose -
Islam is a religion and
Muslims are a community. Sentiment against one doesn't equate to sentiment against the other. Please consult
WP:RS instead of making up your own opinions. --
Kautilya3 (
talk) 16:54, 25 January 2023 (UTC)reply
It is not a matter of "my own opinion", it's the way this categorization is organized:
Category:Anti-Muslim sentiment is a redirect to
Category:Anti-Islam sentiment. The
persecution of Muslims and
criticisms of Islam are different things, but "anti-Muslim" and "anti-Islam" are treated as interchangeable to refer to the persecution of Muslims in categories and redirects (
their own disambiguation page treats them as interchangeable). Furthermore, you are ignoring the main problem with the two categories: There is no actual difference in the actual content of the two categories. I don't see why
Demolition of the Babri Masjid is labelled as "Anti-Muslim", whereas
Haridwar hate speeches is labelled as "Anti-Islam". There are multiple sister political parties split between the two categories despite belonging to the same
Hindu nationalistfamily of organizations. If anything, this current split is more confusing than not.
BirdCities (
talk) 05:13, 26 January 2023 (UTC)reply
It wasn't always organised that way.
Category:Anti-Muslim sentiment was made a redirect some time recently. A misguided decision in my opinion. Rather
Category:Anti-Islam sentiment should have been made a redirect, just like
Category:Anti-Christianity is a redirect. There are obviously Wikipdia's systemic biases at work and I don't have the energy or inclination to fight them all. But for most of South Asia pages, "Anti-Islam" doesn't make sense.
Demolition of Babri Masjid, for instance, had to do with historical disputes regarding which community the localition originally belonged to it. It had nothing to do with the principles or practices of Islam. If you put
Demolition of Babri Masjid in a category of "Anti-Islam", I will be forced to delete the category because there are no reliable sources that support such a claim. --
Kautilya3 (
talk) 13:31, 26 January 2023 (UTC)reply
I retained
Haridwar hate speeches in the "Anti-Islam" category because the speeches were made by Hindu religious preachers, and it could be argued that they were prejudiced against the religion of Islam itself. But there is no fine distinction here. All these ridiculous niceties can be avoided if
Category:Anti-Islam sentiment is made a redirect to
Category:Anti-Muslim sentiment, which is logically the correct thing to do. --
Kautilya3 (
talk) 13:43, 26 January 2023 (UTC)reply
I support having a single category, I don't care what title it's at. Conceptually one could argue for a fine distinction, but I see no such distinction in the sources, and in the vast majority of articles in which this is used the sources are going to use language that doesn't match these titles anyway (prejudice, hate, Islamophobia...) Vanamonde (
Talk) 15:48, 26 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Oppose - There should be two categories, for the reasons that
User:Kautilya3 mentioned above: anti-Islam would denote opposition to the religion itself, while anti-Muslim indicates opposition or discrimination to a group of people. These are conceptually different categories and unless one is being deliberately obtuse, it is not a 'fine' distinction. - 06:35, 27 January 2023 (UTC) — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Naushervan (
talk •
contribs) reply
There is no way to oppress a religion without impacting the followers of that religion, so yes it is a fine distinction.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 10:26, 27 January 2023 (UTC)reply
I used the term "fine distinction" in the context of the specific page,
Haridwar hate speeches. In many other pages, the distinction is quite significant.
Most of the literature on "Anti-Islam" or "Islamophobia" is written by western authors in the western context. They are quite oblivious of the rest of the world, and especially South Asia. India has the second largest number of Muslims in the world and Islam has been in India from the time of Prophet Muhammad himself. So the issues there are quite different from those of the West. However, see this source which attempts to deal with the distinctions to some extent:
Support. This is far too fine a distinction. "There is no way to oppress a religion without impacting the [community of] followers of that religion" is correct. —
SMcCandlish☏¢ 😼 17:58, 27 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Qwerfjkltalk 13:58, 28 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Support per SMcCandlish and V93.
TrangaBellam (
talk) 18:54, 28 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Support Agreed these are fundamentally the same concept, and I doubt the creator of whichever was created last was aware of the others existence.
* Pppery *it has begun... 05:18, 29 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Support —
WP:OVERLAPCAT I'm a long-time reader/supporter of Informed Comment, and have a passable understanding of the distinctions. Agree that anti-Islam or Islamophobia is against a misunderstanding of the religion, while anti-Muslim is against the body or personification. However, these are implied motivations of activities described in the articles, not the articles themselves. Categories are not for labelling fine distinctions. Combining to one category will assist navigation and editors. William Allen Simpson (
talk) 09:22, 29 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Merge or reverse merge as overlapping categories with no clear difference. Note that there is also
Category:Islamophobia in India and
Category:Anti-Muslim violence in India. The problem may be at the higher level, maybe as the result of
this poorly-attended CfD. In my opinion there should be only a category for negative discourse on religious grounds (which should be
Category:Criticism of Islam and another category for hate & prejudice (which should probably be called Anti-Muslim sentiment) in the case of
Haridwar hate speeches, that's clearly hate speech towards Muslims as a social group, not theological debate. The clerical role of people involved in hate speech and calls to violence does not change the nature of the speech.
Place Clichy (
talk) 11:46, 29 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Thanks, I'd not found the separate
Category:Criticism of Islam. OTOH, I'm not convinced that
Haridwar hate speeches are Anti-Muslim, but not Anti-Islam. They are not expressing support for the tenets of Islam, merely against their neighbors believing such things. They oppose a/all/any different religion in their community. The name of that religion in this instance is Islam (in English). We'll need to deal with
Category:Anti-Muslim violence in India later. William Allen Simpson (
talk) 17:19, 29 January 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:American sportspeople of Asian descent
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Nominator's rationale:WP:SMALLCAT recent proliferation of tiny categories with unusual and irrelevant hierarchical organization. Southwest Asian is already empty, and has been tagged
WP:CSD#C1.
The subcategories deeper down should be nominated too (for merger, probably), otherwise the nomination misses its point.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 17:25, 11 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Go ahead. We're still waiting on a decision about your mass nominations a month or so ago. I've checked the subcategories, they are already in other parents where they should be deleted or merged. I'm working on strategically pruning this useless part of the tree. William Allen Simpson (
talk) 03:02, 12 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Let us wait until the older discussion is closed.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 19:22, 12 January 2023 (UTC)reply
CommentCategory:American sportspeople of Southwest Asian descent was tagged as a regular CSD C1 since it was empty even though it seems to be included in this nomination (no CFD tag on the page). So, unless something changes, it looks like that category will be deleted before this discussion closes. LizRead!Talk! 21:05, 14 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Keep -- These are harmless containers and should have that label. I suspect that the SW Asian category is empty because the content has been moved to Middle Eastern. This should perhaps become a cat-redirect. We may need a Central Asian sibling for the ex-Soviet republics there.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 20:05, 15 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Keep pending a larger nomination and discussion of the tree of
Category:East Asian people etc. Simply deleting sportspeople doesn't make sense given that it is a logical derivative of much larger and broader categories.--
User:Namiba 15:39, 16 January 2023 (UTC)reply
This argument makes little sense, as this is indeed part of a larger group on nominations, linked below. This effort comprehensively covers the notability of continental/regional descent categories of sportspeople and their racial implications. BTW sportspeople is the only occupation for which such categories exist. It is therefore not pending anything, and keeping only these 5 categories would create a wart.
Place Clichy (
talk) 16:10, 3 February 2023 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Qwerfjkltalk 21:07, 19 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Delete. These are not harmless as these "regional" subcategories are also a proxy for race, and are understood that way. It is perfectly fine to place the eligible national subcategories of American sportspeople directly under
American sportspeople by ethnic or national origin.
Place Clichy (
talk) 15:35, 27 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Qwerfjkltalk 13:49, 28 January 2023 (UTC)reply
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People of Al-Andalus
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The result of the discussion was:rename all per discussion.
Kbdank71 17:01, 5 February 2023 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: rename for consistency. The category tree currently contains four different formats: Al-Andalus fooers and fooers of, from and in Al-Andalus. "From" (with the exception of rulers and military personnel) is the default for the Russian Empire, Ottoman Empire and for caliphates. "Of" is sometimes ambiguous, e.g. are historians of Al-Andalus living in Al-Andalus or is Al-Andalus their topic of interest? "Al-Andalus fooers" failed earlier in
this discussion. "In" only occurs very rarely.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 18:16, 11 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Support "from" works best for multi-ethnic empires.
Laurel Lodged (
talk) 19:30, 11 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Support. The al- should be lower case per
WP:MOSAR. I am slightly unsure about "of" vs "from" in all cases. I think "from" can also be ambiguous. For example, is a slave brought to al-Andalus a "slave from al-Andalus"?
Srnec (
talk) 01:02, 12 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Caveat: I agree that the bishops categories should remain as is.
Srnec (
talk) 21:06, 19 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Support — to match previous decisions. Don't see any decision about Al-Andalus specific capitalization, this matches the others. If enslaved there, "from" there. (Marcocapelle must have a marvelous script for mass nominations, this would have taken me half a day.) William Allen Simpson (
talk) 03:22, 12 January 2023 (UTC)reply
A trick is to copy an unfolded category tree to Excel.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 07:01, 12 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Oppose for all the bishops categories. The standard format for bishops categories is "Nth- Century bishops in (Location)". No opinion on other categories.
Referencer12 (
talk) 20:53, 14 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Selectively keep -- Those categories already using "of" should be kept; and it should be dynasties of Al-A. On the other hand "from" is much better for exiles and expatriates.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 19:51, 15 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Qwerfjkltalk 21:11, 19 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Qwerfjkltalk 13:46, 28 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Oppose, Propose selectively keeping some as are and changing others to "Andalusian fooers," based on how other categories in other groups are worded (eg, RC bishops in, Andalusian rabbis, etc.) Rational: Consistency should be kept across those other groups not al-Andalus.
Referencer12 (
talk) 06:39, 1February 2023 (UTC)
This is a misunderstanding, it is not about
Andalusia (adjective Andalusian) but about
Al-Andalus (adjective, if any, Al-Andalus).
Marcocapelle (
talk) 06:54, 1 February 2023 (UTC)reply
I understand we're discussing x, not Andalusia. Then, Propose 'Andalusi' See
Andalusi Classical Music &
Andalusi Literature. This should still be done selectively, following conventions of other category groups eg Bishops, Rabbis, Historians, etc.
Referencer12 (
talk) 14:24, 1 February 2023 (UTC)reply
Oops! Sincerest apologies! 1st time partaking in one of these discussions. Wasn't meaning to make it look like more users were opposing.
Referencer12 (
talk) 03:36, 2 February 2023 (UTC)reply
Summary: previous responses have been qualified as follows:
I am not opposing any of the modifications. I guess many more categories need renaming when we change the suffix.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 18:13, 1 February 2023 (UTC)reply
OK. I've clarified that current proposal for the closer. Also, "Clergy in", just like bishops and rabbis. William Allen Simpson (
talk) 18:38, 1 February 2023 (UTC)reply
Great, thanks for taking the Clergy/Bishops/Rabbi issues into account & for working on making Wikipedia better!
Referencer12 (
talk) 03:36, 2 February 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Nigerian mythology
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Nominator's rationale:delete, as becomes clear from the articles, (West) African mythology is not limited to the state borders of Nigeria.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 12:33, 28 January 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Japanese tribes
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Oppose Speedy as not eligible. There is a draft
Draft:Bemin but no article
Bemin, so this is not eligible for Speedy processing under C2D, and none of the other above criteria apply. This would therefore need a full CFD discussion. –
FayenaticLondon 17:53, 27 January 2023 (UTC)reply
User:Immanuelle has created
Category:Bemin and moved the articles to the replacement category. I have added the new category to the nomination with the same rationale plus
WP:NONDEF.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 11:22, 5 February 2023 (UTC)reply
I made a mistake in most of the categorizations based on a confusing structure on Japanese wikipedia. The category is not needed on English wikipedia and imo should be deleted on Arabic and Japanese wikipedias. It does not seem that many if any non-Shinabe groups are independently notable. I found a reference for
Saeki people but even they are only notable for their existence before their subjugation as Bemin.
Immanuelle ❤️💚💙
(please tag me) 23:56, 5 February 2023 (UTC)reply
@
Immanuelle: Thank you. I have tagged the empty Arabic category for deletion. The Japanese
ja:category:部民 is beyond my capability to deal with, but should the English translation be left as Bemin on its Wikidata item, or can you suggest something better? Google Translate & Chrome variously suggest tribes, members, citizens. –
FayenaticLondon 15:04, 7 February 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Wikipedians interested in legal doctrines and principles
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Merge as a duplicate category. –
LaundryPizza03 (
dc̄) 04:15, 5 February 2023 (UTC)reply
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