Category:Executive branch of the Singapore Government
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People from Elis
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Nominator's rationale: merge per
WP:SMALLCAT, this concerns categorization by 3rd and 4th level administrative divisions of Greece, leading to a endless series of single-article or 2-article categories. The proposal is to merge to 2nd level administrative division, except cities and larger towns, in this case except
Pyrgos, Elis (25,000 people),
Amaliada (17,000 people) and
Gastouni (7,000 people). The proposal includes
Andritsaina with 5 articles in the category, however of which 1 article of someone from the neigbouring village
Theisoa, Greece. This is follow-up on
this earlier nomination.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 21:50, 26 February 2021 (UTC)reply
It seems we will go on a case by case basis when it comes to communities. In this case, Theisoa is said to be "6 km northeast of connected Andritsaina", meaning, as I interpret it, that it's one of the cases where the communities are physically connected, making for one settlement (and it's actually 5.5km to be exact). It was already decided in Athens' case to marge places such as Kifisia and Vouliagmeni, independent communities with more than 30km of distance, and with thousands of residents each. --
Antondimak (
talk) 08:52, 27 February 2021 (UTC)reply
The difference is that
Kifissia is a suburb of Athens while Theisoa is a village on its own.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 07:31, 28 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Merge Most for Now/Keep Andritsaina These nearly empty categories hinder rather than aid navigation but no objection to recreating any specific town that get to 5+ articles.
Category:People from Andritsaina is already there and should be retained. (Also keep Pyrgos if still part of nom.) -
RevelationDirect (
talk) 07:39, 3 March 2021 (UTC)reply
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People from Grevena (regional unit)
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Nominator's rationale: merge per
WP:SMALLCAT, this concerns categorization by 3rd and 4th level administrative divisions of Greece, leading to a endless series of single-article or 2-article categories. The proposal is to merge to 2nd level administrative division, except Greneva proper (13.000 people) and
Avdella which is a tiny village now but probably used to be bigger (it has been burnt down twice). This is follow-up on
this earlier nomination.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 21:50, 26 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Merge All for Now These nearly empty categories hinder rather than aid navigation but no objection to recreating any specific town that get to 5+ articles. -
RevelationDirect (
talk) 07:40, 3 March 2021 (UTC)reply
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People from Ioannina (regional unit)
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Nominator's rationale: merge per
WP:SMALLCAT, this concerns categorization by 3rd and 4th level administrative divisions of Greece, leading to a endless series of single-article or 2-article categories. The proposal is to merge to 2nd level administrative division, except
Konitsa (3,000 people),
Metsovo (2,500 people). This is follow-up on
this earlier nomination.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 21:50, 26 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Merge Most for Now/Keep Zagori with alt merges These nearly empty categories hinder rather than aid navigation but no objection to recreating any specific town that get to 5+ articles. For
Category:People from Zagori, if the 3 subcats were upmerged to that level, there would be 7 articles. -
RevelationDirect (
talk) 07:47, 3 March 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Bishops of Narok
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Support, too little content, especially because the dioceses article isn't really appropriate. I have been trying to populate the categories with biographies of bishops but found no more than two; they can be moved to
Category:Bishops of the Anglican Church of Kenya.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 19:34, 26 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Support the first 5 - the diocese article would be appropriate (sorted at the top) if actual bishops could be found (it is not difficult to source links for a bishop but there are dozens of them so the task is daunting). This said, a search for 'Bishop of Narok' returns nothing. Katakwa:
https://www.ackenya.org/list-of-dioceses/katakwaOppose Category:Bishops of Bungoma and
Category:Bishops of Lodwar where actual bishops have been found.
Oculi (
talk) 20:08, 26 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Support -- These are unnecessary levels.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 00:04, 1 March 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Bishops of Malawi
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Nominator's rationale: Only one article, and the category is intended to be for Anglicans
Rathfelder (
talk) 17:38, 26 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep: These two categories aren't the same at all. "Bishops of Malawi" are people who held the specific title Bishop of Malawi; "Anglican bishops in Malawi" are all the people who have been Anglican bishops anywhere in that country. The former is a subset of the latter. (Btw, there have been no non-Anglicans with the exact title Bishop of Malawi, so the former category is not ambiguous.) DBD 17:52, 26 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Donald Arden seems to be the only person who ever was Bishop of Malawi, so he doesnt really need his own category, especially as he is in two other Malawian diocesan categories.
Category:Anglican bishops in Malawi can properly be divided by dioceses.
Rathfelder (
talk) 18:06, 26 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Support per nom. Since "Bishop of Malawi" is a subset of "Anglican bishops in Malawi", an upmerge is fully appropriate.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 19:40, 26 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Perfectly happy with that suggestion.
Rathfelder (
talk) 20:41, 26 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Merge as nominated. Just because at least one person has a specific title does not entitle them to an individualized category. If we really think there will be future confusion, a redirect will be appropriate. William Allen Simpson (
talk) 11:41, 27 February 2021 (UTC)reply
I dont think ecclesiastical provinces are realistic parents. They change too frequently, at least in Africa.
Rathfelder (
talk) 00:25, 10 March 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Recipients of the Infosys Prize
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Nominator's rationale:delete per
WP:OCAWARD, in the articles the award is mostly mentioned in passing together with various other awards.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 17:20, 26 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete The articles don't treat it as defining per nom and the
Infosys Prize article already listifies them by type of Infosys Prize. -
RevelationDirect (
talk) 17:38, 26 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:List of Institutions using Infosys Finacle
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Nominator's rationale: I doubt that
Finacle is notable; notwithstanding, we don't label companies by the software they use, as an editor has done to create this category. ☆ Bri (
talk) 16:57, 26 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete, not a defining characteristic.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 17:12, 26 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete Feels similar to
WP:PERFCAT. If we categorized major companies by all the software packages they use, it would create category clutter without aiding navigation. -
RevelationDirect (
talk) 17:34, 26 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete I can't imagine anything more non-notable than usage of minor software. Major firms would have thousands of these categories; many use multiple vendors in given genres.
Kuru(talk) 17:45, 26 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete I don't see any sources in the articles that support that the company uses the software, and of course that usage could change any time. Not a useful category. OhNoitsJamieTalk 04:24, 28 February 2021 (UTC)reply
The comment is correct, these should be considered
bundled if it is procedurally allowed. ☆ Bri (
talk) 18:42, 28 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Male villains
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Nominator's rationale: Per
WP:NONDEF, cross-categorization that isn't encyclopedic. A character is notable for being a villain, not for being a male villain or female villain. Their gender usually doesn't have anything to do with their villainy. ZXCVBNM (
TALK) 10:29, 13 December 2020 (UTC)reply
Keep Since when is defusing character categories by gender bad? And being a female or male villain is pretty defining for quite a few characters anyway.
★Trekker (
talk) 11:24, 13 December 2020 (UTC)reply
First of all it opens a Pandora's Box since it would imply most other character traits need to be diffused by gender, such as Heroes, etc. This is why policies against trivial intersections exist. Second of all, there isn't any room for characters who are
non-binary, since it creates a strictly male/female dichtotomy. There could be a category of non-binary villains, but one must ask, is it really defining for their character to be both male and a villain.ZXCVBNM (
TALK) 13:18, 13 December 2020 (UTC)reply
I don't see any issue with diffusing pretty much any time of character by gender, its one of the most basic ways humans differenciate themselves and I'd say most characters are rather defined by being male or female.
★Trekker (
talk) 17:05, 20 December 2020 (UTC)reply
Merge both to
Category:Villains insofar the articles aren't already somewhere else in that tree, this concerns trivial intersections, and per
WP:OCEGRS.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 11:45, 13 December 2020 (UTC)reply
Keep. You can't seriously argue, IMO, that a "male villain" is not a distinct type from a "female villain". You can bemoan the fact that culture is what it is, and presents and reflects stereotypes. It would seem nonsensical for Wikipedia to try to sanitize / destroy information in this area. This distinction is not particularly controversial, but I would probably go further and support categorization by specific, narrow types of villains that reflect offensive, politically incorrect types, say "male chauvinist pig Australian/Bolivian/Cape Verdean/Danish/whatever pothead fat rapists with lisps" (making this up), or whatever, if there are a few of those and especially if they are ever discussed as a group. --
Doncram (
talk) 21:05, 13 December 2020 (UTC)reply
Not sure how you mean a "male villain" is a distinct type from a "female villain". Of course gender is distinct, but that is not sufficient for
WP:OCEGRS.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 21:30, 13 December 2020 (UTC)reply
My argument is that the intersection of gender and villainy doesn't define the character at all. Reliable sources don't say "
Handsome Jack is the male villain of Borderlands 2". Or even "is the villain, who happens to be male". They would just say the villain, because whether he is male is meaningless with regards to that, or how good of a villain they are. Therefore, it's overcategorization. That doesn't mean it's not true, just that it shouldn't be a category.ZXCVBNM (
TALK) 22:50, 13 December 2020 (UTC)reply
Support Sure seems like a an overcat to me.
SportingFlyerT·C 23:04, 13 December 2020 (UTC)reply
Merge Both Clicked on quite a few and this seems non-defining and to run against
WP:OCEGRS. -
RevelationDirect (
talk) 01:48, 15 December 2020 (UTC)reply
How is it non-defining? Almost every character end up defined by their gender in some form because humans almost always do that, its even built in to quite a few languages, including the one used on en.Wikipedia.
★Trekker (
talk) 17:05, 20 December 2020 (UTC)reply
Villain is defining, gender is defining, but there is no evidence that the intersection is a notable topic in its own right.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 19:09, 21 December 2020 (UTC)reply
Question What are you doing to do about all the child-categories? And what about stock villain characters like
Femme fatales? Even if you say most characters aren't defined by their gender there are still a lot that are.
★Trekker (
talk) 17:08, 20 December 2020 (UTC)reply
Being a femme fatale is a defining trait and not a cross-categorization. All the ones that are X meets Y where X is "female" or "male" should be merged to their parent category without the gender.ZXCVBNM (
TALK) 03:28, 23 December 2020 (UTC)reply
Femme fatales are not villains, they are even often heroes. Carmen and La Dame aux Camélias come to mind. They are not even a child of the nominated category.
Place Clichy (
talk) 10:59, 4 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep Diffusing by gender makes sense.
Dimadick (
talk) 19:00, 21 December 2020 (UTC)reply
I'd argue it doesn't make sense. Is there a particular reason it makes sense?ZXCVBNM (
TALK) 03:30, 23 December 2020 (UTC)reply
Keep. Gender is inherently notable. Anatomy is one of the primary defining characteristics of a person, including of that fictional characters. Also, "non-binary" is an abstract political concept based on gender norms, not an actual science-based gender. I assume these categorization systems are meant for the two genders firmly based in reality. The nominator should not use his personal political beliefs as a rationale to delete things. However, I do think the category title "Female villains" is rather oddly worded and should instead simply be at "Villainesses." --
115.75.1.184 (
talk) 01:02, 4 January 2021 (UTC)reply
See
WP:CATGENDER. A category should have a specific relation to the topic. "Male" is not specifically related to being a villain. In sports, it is only split by gender when there are events that only permit a certain gender to compete. Being a villain is equal-opportunity.ZXCVBNM (
TALK) 00:37, 5 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Merge both to
Category:Villains. If the gender of these characters is defining, it will be reflected by other categories such as
Category:Fictional females by occupation, but the villain/gender intersection is not notable. We do not break biographical categories by gender for the sole purpose of diffusion, in the real or fictional realm.
Place Clichy (
talk) 10:59, 4 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Good Ol’factory(talk) 23:48, 24 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Merge both the intersection of villany and sex is not so defining we should categize by it.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 14:53, 25 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep for reasons of clarity and comprehensibility. Unseperated cat much too huge. And yes, it's a difference from any other than the moral point of view. --
Just N. (
talk) 21:43, 29 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Per
WP:CATGENDER, it's a difference when there is a clear male/female delineation between types of villains. There isn't. Whether a villain is male or female makes no difference in what they are able to do. Simply being a difference for difference's sake is a non-encyclopedic cross-categorization.ZXCVBNM (
TALK) 00:41, 5 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete The female version is a villainess and so "male villain" is tautology.
Andrew🐉(
talk) 10:36, 11 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –
DarkGlow (
contribs •
talk) 16:12, 26 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep for size & because gender and villainy is a huge topic in the various kinds of cultural studies covering this material, & it is silly to pretend otherwise. Yes, looking at you @
Marcocapelle, and others.
Johnbod (
talk) 01:19, 28 February 2021 (UTC)reply
This category is about fiction, not about real life culture.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 09:28, 21 March 2021 (UTC)reply
Question Does this proposal cover all of the subcategories, too? Because while this discussion might determine that
Category:Male villains should be deleted, that won't stop editors working on, for example, films and video games from recreating
Category:Male video game villains and
Category:Male film villains. You might alert the relevant WikiProjects to this discussion. LizRead!Talk! 20:16, 22 March 2021 (UTC)reply
Never mind, I already alerted them. LizRead!Talk! 20:28, 22 March 2021 (UTC)reply
FWIW, I'm going to note several cats that were deleted here
Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 March 5 of "* featuring female antagonists", with good points that SUBJECTIVECAT (presumably, what an "antagonist" is) applies. Maybe the same issue is here, as what a "villain" is absolutely depends on context. --
Masem (
t) 20:38, 22 March 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep per
WP:CATGENDER, particularly the "female heads of government category" example. To demonstrate special encyclopedic interest, a
search engine test shows "female villains" resulting in reliable sources listing such, where "male villains" results in reliable sources listing just villains.
Erik (
talk |
contrib) (
ping me) 20:50, 22 March 2021 (UTC)reply
I'd do a separate CFD discussion to merge male villains to villains, depending on the outcome of this one. At this point, I support keeping both since various arguments are mixed in.
Erik (
talk |
contrib) (
ping me) 16:58, 23 March 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:La bohème
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Delete, too few articles in this category.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 16:20, 26 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Transport in Karditsa
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Nominator's rationale:Merge as
WP:SMALLCAT. These transport categories were created incorrectly, perhaps by an editor who is inexperienced in categories. I re-parented both the transport categories, but could only find one page that belongs in each of the nominated ones. –
FayenaticLondon 11:56, 26 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Labor unionists from Illinois (merge)
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Support. I created both categories, probably with the intent of merging labor unionists into trade unionists. Speedy support from the creator.--
User:Namiba 15:51, 26 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Support Same scope.
Dimadick (
talk) 10:48, 27 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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Multiple Proposed renaming of Montana, Massachusetts, South Carolina, Wisconsin
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Category:Assizes
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The result of the discussion was:listify and delete. –
FayenaticLondon 21:31, 2 April 2021 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: This is overcategorization by
shared name. Some of these are regular courts, some are traveling courts, some are specific legal actions, some are proclamations by a head of state, some are pieces of legislation, some are outbreaks of disease (really).
Assizes (disambiguation) gives an incomplete indication of the variety of ways this term is used. This category is just grouping all of the articles that use "assize" in some way.
Good Ol’factory(talk) 01:58, 26 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete This is an ambiguation page masquerading as a category. -
RevelationDirect (
talk) 02:24, 26 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Recipients of the Order of the Zahringer Lion
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The
Order of the Zähringer Lion was an award of the German Grand Duchy of Baden that served several purposes:
1: Foreign Leaders: When high ranking visitors came to the Grand Duchy, or vice versa, this was given out as souvenir to commemorate the visit.
Alexander III of Russia,
Edward VII and
Frederick William IV of Prussia] are not remotely defined by this award. The vast majority of the articles in this category were given for this reason.
3: Civilians:
Hans Gude was a prominent painter and
Gustav Berdel a veterinarian. I'm guessing there were a lot of such recipients but only a handful are notable enough for Wikipeida articles.
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Category:Recipients of the Creu de Sant Jordi
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The
Creu de Sant Jordi was established in 1981 an is the 2nd highest award issued by Catalonia in Spain. The awards generally mention this in passing so it doesn't seem defining. The wide variety of recipients--historian, teacher, writer, politician, philosopher, etc--means there is no common thread that could aid navigation. There is already a separate list article,
List of recipients of the Creus de Sant Jordi, for any reader interested in the topic. -
RevelationDirect (
talk) 01:16, 26 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Administrative territorial entities by type
Category:Executive branch of the Singapore Government
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People from Elis
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Nominator's rationale: merge per
WP:SMALLCAT, this concerns categorization by 3rd and 4th level administrative divisions of Greece, leading to a endless series of single-article or 2-article categories. The proposal is to merge to 2nd level administrative division, except cities and larger towns, in this case except
Pyrgos, Elis (25,000 people),
Amaliada (17,000 people) and
Gastouni (7,000 people). The proposal includes
Andritsaina with 5 articles in the category, however of which 1 article of someone from the neigbouring village
Theisoa, Greece. This is follow-up on
this earlier nomination.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 21:50, 26 February 2021 (UTC)reply
It seems we will go on a case by case basis when it comes to communities. In this case, Theisoa is said to be "6 km northeast of connected Andritsaina", meaning, as I interpret it, that it's one of the cases where the communities are physically connected, making for one settlement (and it's actually 5.5km to be exact). It was already decided in Athens' case to marge places such as Kifisia and Vouliagmeni, independent communities with more than 30km of distance, and with thousands of residents each. --
Antondimak (
talk) 08:52, 27 February 2021 (UTC)reply
The difference is that
Kifissia is a suburb of Athens while Theisoa is a village on its own.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 07:31, 28 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Merge Most for Now/Keep Andritsaina These nearly empty categories hinder rather than aid navigation but no objection to recreating any specific town that get to 5+ articles.
Category:People from Andritsaina is already there and should be retained. (Also keep Pyrgos if still part of nom.) -
RevelationDirect (
talk) 07:39, 3 March 2021 (UTC)reply
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People from Grevena (regional unit)
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Nominator's rationale: merge per
WP:SMALLCAT, this concerns categorization by 3rd and 4th level administrative divisions of Greece, leading to a endless series of single-article or 2-article categories. The proposal is to merge to 2nd level administrative division, except Greneva proper (13.000 people) and
Avdella which is a tiny village now but probably used to be bigger (it has been burnt down twice). This is follow-up on
this earlier nomination.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 21:50, 26 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Merge All for Now These nearly empty categories hinder rather than aid navigation but no objection to recreating any specific town that get to 5+ articles. -
RevelationDirect (
talk) 07:40, 3 March 2021 (UTC)reply
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People from Ioannina (regional unit)
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Nominator's rationale: merge per
WP:SMALLCAT, this concerns categorization by 3rd and 4th level administrative divisions of Greece, leading to a endless series of single-article or 2-article categories. The proposal is to merge to 2nd level administrative division, except
Konitsa (3,000 people),
Metsovo (2,500 people). This is follow-up on
this earlier nomination.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 21:50, 26 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Merge Most for Now/Keep Zagori with alt merges These nearly empty categories hinder rather than aid navigation but no objection to recreating any specific town that get to 5+ articles. For
Category:People from Zagori, if the 3 subcats were upmerged to that level, there would be 7 articles. -
RevelationDirect (
talk) 07:47, 3 March 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Bishops of Narok
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Support, too little content, especially because the dioceses article isn't really appropriate. I have been trying to populate the categories with biographies of bishops but found no more than two; they can be moved to
Category:Bishops of the Anglican Church of Kenya.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 19:34, 26 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Support the first 5 - the diocese article would be appropriate (sorted at the top) if actual bishops could be found (it is not difficult to source links for a bishop but there are dozens of them so the task is daunting). This said, a search for 'Bishop of Narok' returns nothing. Katakwa:
https://www.ackenya.org/list-of-dioceses/katakwaOppose Category:Bishops of Bungoma and
Category:Bishops of Lodwar where actual bishops have been found.
Oculi (
talk) 20:08, 26 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Support -- These are unnecessary levels.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 00:04, 1 March 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Bishops of Malawi
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Nominator's rationale: Only one article, and the category is intended to be for Anglicans
Rathfelder (
talk) 17:38, 26 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep: These two categories aren't the same at all. "Bishops of Malawi" are people who held the specific title Bishop of Malawi; "Anglican bishops in Malawi" are all the people who have been Anglican bishops anywhere in that country. The former is a subset of the latter. (Btw, there have been no non-Anglicans with the exact title Bishop of Malawi, so the former category is not ambiguous.) DBD 17:52, 26 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Donald Arden seems to be the only person who ever was Bishop of Malawi, so he doesnt really need his own category, especially as he is in two other Malawian diocesan categories.
Category:Anglican bishops in Malawi can properly be divided by dioceses.
Rathfelder (
talk) 18:06, 26 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Support per nom. Since "Bishop of Malawi" is a subset of "Anglican bishops in Malawi", an upmerge is fully appropriate.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 19:40, 26 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Perfectly happy with that suggestion.
Rathfelder (
talk) 20:41, 26 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Merge as nominated. Just because at least one person has a specific title does not entitle them to an individualized category. If we really think there will be future confusion, a redirect will be appropriate. William Allen Simpson (
talk) 11:41, 27 February 2021 (UTC)reply
I dont think ecclesiastical provinces are realistic parents. They change too frequently, at least in Africa.
Rathfelder (
talk) 00:25, 10 March 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Recipients of the Infosys Prize
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Nominator's rationale:delete per
WP:OCAWARD, in the articles the award is mostly mentioned in passing together with various other awards.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 17:20, 26 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete The articles don't treat it as defining per nom and the
Infosys Prize article already listifies them by type of Infosys Prize. -
RevelationDirect (
talk) 17:38, 26 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:List of Institutions using Infosys Finacle
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Nominator's rationale: I doubt that
Finacle is notable; notwithstanding, we don't label companies by the software they use, as an editor has done to create this category. ☆ Bri (
talk) 16:57, 26 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete, not a defining characteristic.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 17:12, 26 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete Feels similar to
WP:PERFCAT. If we categorized major companies by all the software packages they use, it would create category clutter without aiding navigation. -
RevelationDirect (
talk) 17:34, 26 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete I can't imagine anything more non-notable than usage of minor software. Major firms would have thousands of these categories; many use multiple vendors in given genres.
Kuru(talk) 17:45, 26 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete I don't see any sources in the articles that support that the company uses the software, and of course that usage could change any time. Not a useful category. OhNoitsJamieTalk 04:24, 28 February 2021 (UTC)reply
The comment is correct, these should be considered
bundled if it is procedurally allowed. ☆ Bri (
talk) 18:42, 28 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Male villains
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Nominator's rationale: Per
WP:NONDEF, cross-categorization that isn't encyclopedic. A character is notable for being a villain, not for being a male villain or female villain. Their gender usually doesn't have anything to do with their villainy. ZXCVBNM (
TALK) 10:29, 13 December 2020 (UTC)reply
Keep Since when is defusing character categories by gender bad? And being a female or male villain is pretty defining for quite a few characters anyway.
★Trekker (
talk) 11:24, 13 December 2020 (UTC)reply
First of all it opens a Pandora's Box since it would imply most other character traits need to be diffused by gender, such as Heroes, etc. This is why policies against trivial intersections exist. Second of all, there isn't any room for characters who are
non-binary, since it creates a strictly male/female dichtotomy. There could be a category of non-binary villains, but one must ask, is it really defining for their character to be both male and a villain.ZXCVBNM (
TALK) 13:18, 13 December 2020 (UTC)reply
I don't see any issue with diffusing pretty much any time of character by gender, its one of the most basic ways humans differenciate themselves and I'd say most characters are rather defined by being male or female.
★Trekker (
talk) 17:05, 20 December 2020 (UTC)reply
Merge both to
Category:Villains insofar the articles aren't already somewhere else in that tree, this concerns trivial intersections, and per
WP:OCEGRS.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 11:45, 13 December 2020 (UTC)reply
Keep. You can't seriously argue, IMO, that a "male villain" is not a distinct type from a "female villain". You can bemoan the fact that culture is what it is, and presents and reflects stereotypes. It would seem nonsensical for Wikipedia to try to sanitize / destroy information in this area. This distinction is not particularly controversial, but I would probably go further and support categorization by specific, narrow types of villains that reflect offensive, politically incorrect types, say "male chauvinist pig Australian/Bolivian/Cape Verdean/Danish/whatever pothead fat rapists with lisps" (making this up), or whatever, if there are a few of those and especially if they are ever discussed as a group. --
Doncram (
talk) 21:05, 13 December 2020 (UTC)reply
Not sure how you mean a "male villain" is a distinct type from a "female villain". Of course gender is distinct, but that is not sufficient for
WP:OCEGRS.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 21:30, 13 December 2020 (UTC)reply
My argument is that the intersection of gender and villainy doesn't define the character at all. Reliable sources don't say "
Handsome Jack is the male villain of Borderlands 2". Or even "is the villain, who happens to be male". They would just say the villain, because whether he is male is meaningless with regards to that, or how good of a villain they are. Therefore, it's overcategorization. That doesn't mean it's not true, just that it shouldn't be a category.ZXCVBNM (
TALK) 22:50, 13 December 2020 (UTC)reply
Support Sure seems like a an overcat to me.
SportingFlyerT·C 23:04, 13 December 2020 (UTC)reply
Merge Both Clicked on quite a few and this seems non-defining and to run against
WP:OCEGRS. -
RevelationDirect (
talk) 01:48, 15 December 2020 (UTC)reply
How is it non-defining? Almost every character end up defined by their gender in some form because humans almost always do that, its even built in to quite a few languages, including the one used on en.Wikipedia.
★Trekker (
talk) 17:05, 20 December 2020 (UTC)reply
Villain is defining, gender is defining, but there is no evidence that the intersection is a notable topic in its own right.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 19:09, 21 December 2020 (UTC)reply
Question What are you doing to do about all the child-categories? And what about stock villain characters like
Femme fatales? Even if you say most characters aren't defined by their gender there are still a lot that are.
★Trekker (
talk) 17:08, 20 December 2020 (UTC)reply
Being a femme fatale is a defining trait and not a cross-categorization. All the ones that are X meets Y where X is "female" or "male" should be merged to their parent category without the gender.ZXCVBNM (
TALK) 03:28, 23 December 2020 (UTC)reply
Femme fatales are not villains, they are even often heroes. Carmen and La Dame aux Camélias come to mind. They are not even a child of the nominated category.
Place Clichy (
talk) 10:59, 4 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep Diffusing by gender makes sense.
Dimadick (
talk) 19:00, 21 December 2020 (UTC)reply
I'd argue it doesn't make sense. Is there a particular reason it makes sense?ZXCVBNM (
TALK) 03:30, 23 December 2020 (UTC)reply
Keep. Gender is inherently notable. Anatomy is one of the primary defining characteristics of a person, including of that fictional characters. Also, "non-binary" is an abstract political concept based on gender norms, not an actual science-based gender. I assume these categorization systems are meant for the two genders firmly based in reality. The nominator should not use his personal political beliefs as a rationale to delete things. However, I do think the category title "Female villains" is rather oddly worded and should instead simply be at "Villainesses." --
115.75.1.184 (
talk) 01:02, 4 January 2021 (UTC)reply
See
WP:CATGENDER. A category should have a specific relation to the topic. "Male" is not specifically related to being a villain. In sports, it is only split by gender when there are events that only permit a certain gender to compete. Being a villain is equal-opportunity.ZXCVBNM (
TALK) 00:37, 5 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Merge both to
Category:Villains. If the gender of these characters is defining, it will be reflected by other categories such as
Category:Fictional females by occupation, but the villain/gender intersection is not notable. We do not break biographical categories by gender for the sole purpose of diffusion, in the real or fictional realm.
Place Clichy (
talk) 10:59, 4 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Good Ol’factory(talk) 23:48, 24 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Merge both the intersection of villany and sex is not so defining we should categize by it.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 14:53, 25 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep for reasons of clarity and comprehensibility. Unseperated cat much too huge. And yes, it's a difference from any other than the moral point of view. --
Just N. (
talk) 21:43, 29 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Per
WP:CATGENDER, it's a difference when there is a clear male/female delineation between types of villains. There isn't. Whether a villain is male or female makes no difference in what they are able to do. Simply being a difference for difference's sake is a non-encyclopedic cross-categorization.ZXCVBNM (
TALK) 00:41, 5 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete The female version is a villainess and so "male villain" is tautology.
Andrew🐉(
talk) 10:36, 11 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –
DarkGlow (
contribs •
talk) 16:12, 26 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep for size & because gender and villainy is a huge topic in the various kinds of cultural studies covering this material, & it is silly to pretend otherwise. Yes, looking at you @
Marcocapelle, and others.
Johnbod (
talk) 01:19, 28 February 2021 (UTC)reply
This category is about fiction, not about real life culture.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 09:28, 21 March 2021 (UTC)reply
Question Does this proposal cover all of the subcategories, too? Because while this discussion might determine that
Category:Male villains should be deleted, that won't stop editors working on, for example, films and video games from recreating
Category:Male video game villains and
Category:Male film villains. You might alert the relevant WikiProjects to this discussion. LizRead!Talk! 20:16, 22 March 2021 (UTC)reply
Never mind, I already alerted them. LizRead!Talk! 20:28, 22 March 2021 (UTC)reply
FWIW, I'm going to note several cats that were deleted here
Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 March 5 of "* featuring female antagonists", with good points that SUBJECTIVECAT (presumably, what an "antagonist" is) applies. Maybe the same issue is here, as what a "villain" is absolutely depends on context. --
Masem (
t) 20:38, 22 March 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep per
WP:CATGENDER, particularly the "female heads of government category" example. To demonstrate special encyclopedic interest, a
search engine test shows "female villains" resulting in reliable sources listing such, where "male villains" results in reliable sources listing just villains.
Erik (
talk |
contrib) (
ping me) 20:50, 22 March 2021 (UTC)reply
I'd do a separate CFD discussion to merge male villains to villains, depending on the outcome of this one. At this point, I support keeping both since various arguments are mixed in.
Erik (
talk |
contrib) (
ping me) 16:58, 23 March 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:La bohème
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Delete, too few articles in this category.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 16:20, 26 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Transport in Karditsa
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Nominator's rationale:Merge as
WP:SMALLCAT. These transport categories were created incorrectly, perhaps by an editor who is inexperienced in categories. I re-parented both the transport categories, but could only find one page that belongs in each of the nominated ones. –
FayenaticLondon 11:56, 26 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Labor unionists from Illinois (merge)
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Support. I created both categories, probably with the intent of merging labor unionists into trade unionists. Speedy support from the creator.--
User:Namiba 15:51, 26 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Support Same scope.
Dimadick (
talk) 10:48, 27 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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Multiple Proposed renaming of Montana, Massachusetts, South Carolina, Wisconsin
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Category:Assizes
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The result of the discussion was:listify and delete. –
FayenaticLondon 21:31, 2 April 2021 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: This is overcategorization by
shared name. Some of these are regular courts, some are traveling courts, some are specific legal actions, some are proclamations by a head of state, some are pieces of legislation, some are outbreaks of disease (really).
Assizes (disambiguation) gives an incomplete indication of the variety of ways this term is used. This category is just grouping all of the articles that use "assize" in some way.
Good Ol’factory(talk) 01:58, 26 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete This is an ambiguation page masquerading as a category. -
RevelationDirect (
talk) 02:24, 26 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Recipients of the Order of the Zahringer Lion
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The
Order of the Zähringer Lion was an award of the German Grand Duchy of Baden that served several purposes:
1: Foreign Leaders: When high ranking visitors came to the Grand Duchy, or vice versa, this was given out as souvenir to commemorate the visit.
Alexander III of Russia,
Edward VII and
Frederick William IV of Prussia] are not remotely defined by this award. The vast majority of the articles in this category were given for this reason.
3: Civilians:
Hans Gude was a prominent painter and
Gustav Berdel a veterinarian. I'm guessing there were a lot of such recipients but only a handful are notable enough for Wikipeida articles.
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Category:Recipients of the Creu de Sant Jordi
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The
Creu de Sant Jordi was established in 1981 an is the 2nd highest award issued by Catalonia in Spain. The awards generally mention this in passing so it doesn't seem defining. The wide variety of recipients--historian, teacher, writer, politician, philosopher, etc--means there is no common thread that could aid navigation. There is already a separate list article,
List of recipients of the Creus de Sant Jordi, for any reader interested in the topic. -
RevelationDirect (
talk) 01:16, 26 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Administrative territorial entities by type