Category:Redirects from likely search terms to Wikipedia content
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The result of the discussion was:delete. bibliomaniac15 03:48, 13 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Delete It is assumed that all redirects are from plausible search terms, or else they should go to
RfD. –
LaundryPizza03 (
dc̄) 18:08, 3 May 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Protected redirects
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The result of the discussion was:rename. bibliomaniac15 03:49, 13 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: The usual adjectival demonym for people from the Cook Islands is "Cook Island foo", as is fairly common with island groups. This is explained at
List of adjectival and demonymic forms for countries and nations and is the form currently used on around 105 other categories.
Grutness...wha? 17:06, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Speedy rename Doesn't seem to need the conversation. ―
Justin (koavf)❤
T☮
C☺
M☯ 23:58, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
I put it here mainly because it is sometimes hard for people to believe that the demonym is correct. Someone was likely to oppose a speedy.
Grutness...wha? 03:29, 4 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Comment: The name of the group is
Cook Islands; but the island group does not include a "Cook Island". The "list of adjectival forms etc …" gives the adjectival form as
Cook Island – but although this disambiguation lists three islands it does not list any islands in the Cook Islands group (the largest island is
Rarotonga);
Category:Cook Islands is listed as "see also". Note that
Category:Solomon Islands people and
Category:Northern Mariana Islands people uses the plural "Solomon Islands" not Solomon Island etc.
Hugo999 (
talk) 21:55, 7 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Hugo999, Hi, you pinged me to see this (thanks for that) but I'm not sure what the take-away or action is. Can you clarify? Do you agree with the rename? Disagree? Do you have a better alternative? ―
Justin (koavf)❤
T☮
C☺
M☯ 22:33, 7 May 2020 (UTC)reply
So you propose we name them all incorrectly? Seems a bit drastic. The demonym is "Cook Island", and that's what we should use. I hadn't noticed that Solomon Islands was also incorrect - but that's the subject for a different CfD. PS - fwiw, I work with a number of Cook Islanders and they are insistent that "Cook Island people" is correct.
Grutness...wha? 04:42, 8 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Support - for "Cook Island" as a local accepted usage, although if changes were proposed for the Solomon Islands or the Northern Mariana Islands I would want indications that the proposals were local usage.
Hugo999 (
talk) 01:37, 13 May 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Members of the Massachusetts House of Representatives from Dedham
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The result of the discussion was:merge. bibliomaniac15 03:31, 14 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Oppose There are literally hundreds of members of the legislature each year, and hundreds of years worth of representatives. I'd like to see similar categories for other communities as well. --
Slugger O'Toole (
talk) 16:37, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
There would tend to be one in each house at a time, unless a legislative boundary went through Dedham and there would be two at a time.
RevelationDirect (
talk) 18:53, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
But quite often the person representing a community does not live in that community. --
Slugger O'Toole (
talk) 23:42, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Merge per nominator.
...William, is the complaint department really on
the roof? 17:01, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Merge We have categories for federal Congressional districts but I don't think such an approach is workable at the state legislature level. (Nor is that exactly what is happening here.)
RevelationDirect (
talk) 18:53, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
RevelationDirect, Why not? There are likely to me far more state representatives from a particular location than federal representatives. --
Slugger O'Toole (
talk) 19:00, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
I actually misspoke: we listify cognresspeople by Congressional district like in
Massachusetts's 8th congressional district, which is the district Dedham is currently in. State Reps are elected by districts that move every 10 years based on the census so creating categories for every municipality in a state rep district would not be defining.
RevelationDirect (
talk) 23:02, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
That's not what we are doing here, though. We are listing people who live in Dedham who represented it in the General Court. If in this decade Dedham is in the first district but next decade it is in the second, the representative would still live in Dedham. It is as defining as, say, sportspeople who live in a given community. --
Slugger O'Toole (
talk) 23:42, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
I mentioned directly below the nomination that they would all be upmerged to that category.--
User:Namiba 16:02, 8 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Merge per nom. This is not a correct way to diffuse by geography.
Place Clichy (
talk) 13:49, 8 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Merge per all, bad method of categorization.
ValarianB (
talk) 15:49, 8 May 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Animal rights media
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The result of the discussion was: no consensus to delete, so rename. This close does not bar anyone from bringing selected cases back for further consideration. –
FayenaticLondon 10:11, 15 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Comment: I used full CfD and not the speedy section because maybe some of these should maybe be changed stylistically and unified.
1234qwer1234qwer4 (
talk) 20:21, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Delete all but the NASA category what makes media (mass or otherwise) "Dinosaur" or "Car-related" or most of the others? Dinosaurs don't have media (mass or otherwise), so this is in essence a "Media about Dinosaurs", etc. which suffers from the same problems all the "about" or "related" as in the titles of several categories: how do we objectively decide much about the subject must it be and what reliable sources tell us it's at least that much. How far afield these things go is someone's opinion to include the
Category:Ace Ventura in animal rights media. Really - isn't he more of a slave bounty hunter returning escaped animals back to their owners? I note that the NASA category seems to be media authored or published by NASA and that's definable.
Carlossuarez46 (
talk) 00:18, 6 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Support per nom. I see this as a valiant attempt (by no means the last) to harmonise the names within
Category:Mass media rather than to justify each one and all its contents.
Oculi (
talk) 12:42, 11 May 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Historical European Commissions
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Category:English Jews of the Medieval and Tudor period
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Nominator's rationale:split, it is very unusual to combine the Middle Ages with the Tudor period in one category.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 08:28, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
SupportTudor period is between 1485 and 1603, while
Middle Ages is roughly from the 5th to the 15th century. That would allow for a clean split, IMHO.
Debresser (
talk) 08:32, 3 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Support Two different historical periods.
Dimadick (
talk) 18:04, 3 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Thanks, that is a very useful comment, leading to me checking the articles one by one. We appear to have no articles about 14th- and 15th-century English Jews but we do have some from the Tudor period. Splitting in 1290 or splitting by medieval/Tudor has therefore the same effect. However, e.g.
Joachim Gans was apparently not a hidden Jew in the Tudor period. So I think the split as nominated is still good enough.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 07:09, 5 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Comment Because in English history, the
Late Middle Ages are considered to include the
Wars of the Roses (1455-1487), while the subsequent Tudor regime is associated with social changes. To quote the main article: "Historians debate the extent of impact the wars had on medieval English life. The classical view is that the many casualties among the
nobility continued the changes in feudal English society caused by the effects of the
Black Death. These included a weakening of the
feudal power of the nobles and an increase in the power of the merchant classes and the growth of a centralised monarchy under the Tudors. The wars heralded the end of the medieval period in England and the movement towards the
Renaissance. After the wars, the large standing baronial armies that had helped fuel the conflict were suppressed. Henry VII, wary of any further fighting, kept the barons on a very tight leash, removing their right to raise, arm and supply armies of retainers so that they could not make war on each other or the king. The military power of individual barons declined, and the Tudor court became a place where baronial squabbles were decided with the influence of the monarch."
Dimadick (
talk) 21:06, 4 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Reply couldn't the same for every other country? "We're different from the rest of the world. Period dating doesn't suit us, so we have to use dynasty dating.". Where would that leave us with a single, widely acknowledged dating convention? You might as well tear it up. And tear up "by century" categorisation as well because we're different.
Laurel Lodged (
talk) 07:19, 7 May 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Governors-General (Military Governors) of Moscow
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Nominator's rationale:rename, the current category name is unnecessary long.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 07:23, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Comment and support I just opened the first article in the category,
Jacob Bruce. It doesn't even mention that he was military governor of Moscow. It is mentioned only on one of the images in the article. Then I saw the same problem on te second article,
Alexander Buturlin. Hm. In any case, per
Mayor_of_Moscow#Governors-General_of_Moscow_(1709–1917) I support the rename.
Debresser (
talk) 08:37, 3 May 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Municipal City Heads (gorodskoy golova) of Moscow
Category:Politburo of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union candidate members
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The result of the discussion was:keep. bibliomaniac15 03:44, 13 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Thanks, I have added that to this nomination.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 07:44, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Obviously keep. There is no any reason for deletion. In Soviet Russia... candiadte is not just candidate. It was the title of very powerful office, among the highest leaders of the country (see
Politburo members and
27th Politburo organized as full members and candidates combined). In the same time, members of parliaments or nominal officeholders didn't have real political power, only Communist Party members made real and final decisions (I think it is similar system in China:
Xi Jinping was
finally chosen the next leader in 2007, but officially appointed only in 2012). For example, from
Russian President's biography: "on 18 February 1986, Yeltsin was invited to become a Candidate (non-voting) Member of the Politburo. As a politburo member, Yeltsin was also given a country house (dacha) which was previously occupied by Gorbachev. ... At the next meeting of the Central Committee on 24 February 1988, Yeltsin was removed from his position as a Candidate member of the Politburo. He was perturbed and humiliated...".
TarzanASG (
talk) 08:34, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
If I understand correctly, these candidates attended the meetings but were not allowed to vote. How powerful is that?
Marcocapelle (
talk) 11:42, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
I don't know about voting mechanism in Politburo, but full name is Political Bureau of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union. All of them are voting members of the Central Committee. The most powerful members of the Central Committee were appointed as full members or they were appointed as candidates of Political Bureau of the Central Committee. Obviously candidates are less powerful than full members, but they are very powerful among ordinary members of the Central Committee.
TarzanASG (
talk) 12:29, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
You just quoted about non-voting power.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 15:25, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Keep per
TarzanASG. It's disappointing to see another nomination by Marcocapelle which wrongly assumes that the power structures of the Soviet Bloc mirror those of liberal democracies. --
BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (
contribs) 11:59, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Please do not make unjustified speculations about my assumptions, keep to facts.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 15:25, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
I was commenting on your rationale: we usually do not categorize candidates for anything. That's an assumption that the word "candidate" carries the same meaning as it does in other contexts, whereas in this case candidate status conferred a right to become active participants in the Politburo. That's wholly different to the status of e.g. candidates for the
United States Senate or the
House of Commons of the United Kingdom. Instead of taking offence, it would be better to withdraw the nomination. --
BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (
contribs) 18:00, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
It is not speculative. Your nomination failed to note the distinction. --
BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (
contribs) 22:39, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
The word candidate can be used in many different contexts. The fact that I am not describing all those different contexts should not logically lead to the conclusion that I am not aware of that. It was simply a case of
WP:PERSONAL.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 04:24, 3 May 2020 (UTC)reply
It was not a comment on any failure, it was speculation that I "assume that the power structures of the Soviet Bloc mirror those of liberal democracies". That is something completely different. Don't twist your own words.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 17:36, 3 May 2020 (UTC)reply
I am not twisting anything. If you believed that there was some material distinction between Politburo candidates and other types of candidate, then that should have been mentioned in the nomination to avoid misleading anyone. I was AGFing that you nominated on the basis of a mistaken assumption about the power structures rather than by consciously omitting pertinent info. Sorry if my AGF was misplaced. --
BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (
contribs) 17:51, 3 May 2020 (UTC)reply
I've looked at a sample of the articles and many don't mention this characteristic. For example, compare the text and the categories at
Petru Pascari. Thus, I'm inclined to delete (or possibly purge or upmerge) on the basis on NONDEF. DexDor(talk) 20:16, 3 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Comment My mind could potentially be changed with an affirmative argument to keep these categories: "These particular positions were defining in the Soviet Union because... "
RevelationDirect (
talk) 00:47, 5 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Keep. These ranks seem to be very notable positions in the Soviet cursus honorum. For instance,
Felix Dzerzhinsky, a most important Soviet political figure, "only" made it to candidate member of the Politburo and was never a "full" member.
Place Clichy (
talk) 14:39, 8 May 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Snakes by common name
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The result of the discussion was:rename. bibliomaniac15 03:47, 13 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Seems very close to
WP:SHAREDNAME. Is that fact that a snake has a common name, and that Wikipedia has chosen to locate its article on that critter at that address, not at its scientific name, really defining for the snake?
Carlossuarez46 (
talk) 00:20, 6 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Indeed - whether an article about a species (etc) is (currently) at a common name or the scientific name shouldn't affect what categories the article is in (it's the same topic). Articles about species (e.g.
Yellow-naped snake and
Javan spitting cobra) have been removed from this category on that basis. The rename to avoid "by" (and subsequent changes to the category text) may make this clearer. The pages remaining in this category are things like
Fox snake. DexDor(talk) 05:31, 6 May 2020 (UTC)reply
I've added
garter snake and
gopher snake, the latter a redirect to an article named for the genus - which ought not make a difference because where WP puts an article is immaterial to its inclusion, right.
Carlossuarez46 (
talk) 17:41, 8 May 2020 (UTC)reply
I don't understand why the gopher snake redirect would be in this category - it's not (a redirect to) an article (e.g. an SIA) about a snake common name and there are
hundreds of similar redirects. DexDor(talk) 06:41, 9 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Support, consistent with names of similar categories.
Plantdrew (
talk) 01:55, 11 May 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Associations
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The result of the discussion was:no action, further nomination required. –
FayenaticLondon 14:48, 17 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: Match the mainspace page
Voluntary association.
Association is a disambiguation page. The headnote says this is for unincorporated associations, but most of the members seem to be incorporated. Most of the members appear to be voluntary associations. The natural meaning of "association" is fairly ambiguous, leading to many pages being included here just based on their names.
Jfhutson (
talk) 01:57, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Question@
Jfhutson: The headnote's "unincorporated" associations is definitely out. What's the plan with he continent/country subcategories if this passes?
RevelationDirect (
talk) 07:17, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
I'm up for a split proposed above by Marcocapelle or some other fix.
RevelationDirect (
talk) 02:27, 10 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Keep for now, and discuss how to merge this with
Category:Organizations by type and
Category:Organizations by subject. In principle, I agree with the split that
Marcocapelle has suggested; however, I think that those two target categories themselves have almost no difference and should be merged in some way (I think "subject" to "type," considering scope and also creation date), and so deciding how to split the contents of Associations between the two is a fraught venture. I'd really like to see all three of these merged together into one category, but I think that's a better topic for a future discussion. bibliomaniac15 17:51, 15 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Yeah, I think this should be closed and a completely new nomination opened. bibliomaniac15 02:37, 16 May 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Prometheus Award-winning works
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The result of the discussion was:delete. bibliomaniac15 03:56, 13 May 2020 (UTC)reply
The
Prometheus Award is for
libertarian science fiction and I can certainly see how libertarians would be inspired by resistance to government overreach in Fahrenheit 451 and It Can't Happen Here but neither work presents libertarianism as the alternative. And neither conservative
Ray Bradbury nor progressive
Sinclair Lewis are even remotely defined by this libertarian award. The authors who are libertarian are already well categorized but the minority of these books that are explicitly libertarian should stay in the category tree. The contents are already listified
here in the main article. -
RevelationDirect (
talk) 00:06, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
*RFC There is an open request for comments on proposed changes to
WP:OCAWARD. Your input (pro/con/other) is always welcome
here. -RD
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Category:Literaturpreis der Reichshauptstadt Berlin Award-winning works
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The result of the discussion was:delete. For reference, in case anyone wants to make an article about this in the future, the only entry in this category was
Hasko. bibliomaniac15 03:55, 13 May 2020 (UTC)reply
In lieu of a
Literaturpreis der Reichshauptstadt Berlin Award main article, the actual category has an introduction that explains this is a German award issued from 1935-40. I can't definitively say that this award is non-defining but there is nothing in English Wikipedia that even hints it might be. There's only
one article here so there's really nothing to listify. -
RevelationDirect (
talk) 00:06, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
*RFC There is an open request for comments on proposed changes to
WP:OCAWARD. Your input (pro/con/other) is always welcome
here. -RD
Articlise the category as suggested. The German WP (though I do not understand the language) indicates this was a national prise of the Nazi era and that there is scope to expand the list.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 16:09, 4 May 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Redirects from likely search terms to Wikipedia content
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The result of the discussion was:delete. bibliomaniac15 03:48, 13 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Delete It is assumed that all redirects are from plausible search terms, or else they should go to
RfD. –
LaundryPizza03 (
dc̄) 18:08, 3 May 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Protected redirects
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was:rename. bibliomaniac15 03:49, 13 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: The usual adjectival demonym for people from the Cook Islands is "Cook Island foo", as is fairly common with island groups. This is explained at
List of adjectival and demonymic forms for countries and nations and is the form currently used on around 105 other categories.
Grutness...wha? 17:06, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Speedy rename Doesn't seem to need the conversation. ―
Justin (koavf)❤
T☮
C☺
M☯ 23:58, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
I put it here mainly because it is sometimes hard for people to believe that the demonym is correct. Someone was likely to oppose a speedy.
Grutness...wha? 03:29, 4 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Comment: The name of the group is
Cook Islands; but the island group does not include a "Cook Island". The "list of adjectival forms etc …" gives the adjectival form as
Cook Island – but although this disambiguation lists three islands it does not list any islands in the Cook Islands group (the largest island is
Rarotonga);
Category:Cook Islands is listed as "see also". Note that
Category:Solomon Islands people and
Category:Northern Mariana Islands people uses the plural "Solomon Islands" not Solomon Island etc.
Hugo999 (
talk) 21:55, 7 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Hugo999, Hi, you pinged me to see this (thanks for that) but I'm not sure what the take-away or action is. Can you clarify? Do you agree with the rename? Disagree? Do you have a better alternative? ―
Justin (koavf)❤
T☮
C☺
M☯ 22:33, 7 May 2020 (UTC)reply
So you propose we name them all incorrectly? Seems a bit drastic. The demonym is "Cook Island", and that's what we should use. I hadn't noticed that Solomon Islands was also incorrect - but that's the subject for a different CfD. PS - fwiw, I work with a number of Cook Islanders and they are insistent that "Cook Island people" is correct.
Grutness...wha? 04:42, 8 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Support - for "Cook Island" as a local accepted usage, although if changes were proposed for the Solomon Islands or the Northern Mariana Islands I would want indications that the proposals were local usage.
Hugo999 (
talk) 01:37, 13 May 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Members of the Massachusetts House of Representatives from Dedham
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The result of the discussion was:merge. bibliomaniac15 03:31, 14 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Oppose There are literally hundreds of members of the legislature each year, and hundreds of years worth of representatives. I'd like to see similar categories for other communities as well. --
Slugger O'Toole (
talk) 16:37, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
There would tend to be one in each house at a time, unless a legislative boundary went through Dedham and there would be two at a time.
RevelationDirect (
talk) 18:53, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
But quite often the person representing a community does not live in that community. --
Slugger O'Toole (
talk) 23:42, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Merge per nominator.
...William, is the complaint department really on
the roof? 17:01, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Merge We have categories for federal Congressional districts but I don't think such an approach is workable at the state legislature level. (Nor is that exactly what is happening here.)
RevelationDirect (
talk) 18:53, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
RevelationDirect, Why not? There are likely to me far more state representatives from a particular location than federal representatives. --
Slugger O'Toole (
talk) 19:00, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
I actually misspoke: we listify cognresspeople by Congressional district like in
Massachusetts's 8th congressional district, which is the district Dedham is currently in. State Reps are elected by districts that move every 10 years based on the census so creating categories for every municipality in a state rep district would not be defining.
RevelationDirect (
talk) 23:02, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
That's not what we are doing here, though. We are listing people who live in Dedham who represented it in the General Court. If in this decade Dedham is in the first district but next decade it is in the second, the representative would still live in Dedham. It is as defining as, say, sportspeople who live in a given community. --
Slugger O'Toole (
talk) 23:42, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
I mentioned directly below the nomination that they would all be upmerged to that category.--
User:Namiba 16:02, 8 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Merge per nom. This is not a correct way to diffuse by geography.
Place Clichy (
talk) 13:49, 8 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Merge per all, bad method of categorization.
ValarianB (
talk) 15:49, 8 May 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Animal rights media
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The result of the discussion was: no consensus to delete, so rename. This close does not bar anyone from bringing selected cases back for further consideration. –
FayenaticLondon 10:11, 15 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Comment: I used full CfD and not the speedy section because maybe some of these should maybe be changed stylistically and unified.
1234qwer1234qwer4 (
talk) 20:21, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Delete all but the NASA category what makes media (mass or otherwise) "Dinosaur" or "Car-related" or most of the others? Dinosaurs don't have media (mass or otherwise), so this is in essence a "Media about Dinosaurs", etc. which suffers from the same problems all the "about" or "related" as in the titles of several categories: how do we objectively decide much about the subject must it be and what reliable sources tell us it's at least that much. How far afield these things go is someone's opinion to include the
Category:Ace Ventura in animal rights media. Really - isn't he more of a slave bounty hunter returning escaped animals back to their owners? I note that the NASA category seems to be media authored or published by NASA and that's definable.
Carlossuarez46 (
talk) 00:18, 6 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Support per nom. I see this as a valiant attempt (by no means the last) to harmonise the names within
Category:Mass media rather than to justify each one and all its contents.
Oculi (
talk) 12:42, 11 May 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Historical European Commissions
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Category:English Jews of the Medieval and Tudor period
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Nominator's rationale:split, it is very unusual to combine the Middle Ages with the Tudor period in one category.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 08:28, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
SupportTudor period is between 1485 and 1603, while
Middle Ages is roughly from the 5th to the 15th century. That would allow for a clean split, IMHO.
Debresser (
talk) 08:32, 3 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Support Two different historical periods.
Dimadick (
talk) 18:04, 3 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Thanks, that is a very useful comment, leading to me checking the articles one by one. We appear to have no articles about 14th- and 15th-century English Jews but we do have some from the Tudor period. Splitting in 1290 or splitting by medieval/Tudor has therefore the same effect. However, e.g.
Joachim Gans was apparently not a hidden Jew in the Tudor period. So I think the split as nominated is still good enough.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 07:09, 5 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Comment Because in English history, the
Late Middle Ages are considered to include the
Wars of the Roses (1455-1487), while the subsequent Tudor regime is associated with social changes. To quote the main article: "Historians debate the extent of impact the wars had on medieval English life. The classical view is that the many casualties among the
nobility continued the changes in feudal English society caused by the effects of the
Black Death. These included a weakening of the
feudal power of the nobles and an increase in the power of the merchant classes and the growth of a centralised monarchy under the Tudors. The wars heralded the end of the medieval period in England and the movement towards the
Renaissance. After the wars, the large standing baronial armies that had helped fuel the conflict were suppressed. Henry VII, wary of any further fighting, kept the barons on a very tight leash, removing their right to raise, arm and supply armies of retainers so that they could not make war on each other or the king. The military power of individual barons declined, and the Tudor court became a place where baronial squabbles were decided with the influence of the monarch."
Dimadick (
talk) 21:06, 4 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Reply couldn't the same for every other country? "We're different from the rest of the world. Period dating doesn't suit us, so we have to use dynasty dating.". Where would that leave us with a single, widely acknowledged dating convention? You might as well tear it up. And tear up "by century" categorisation as well because we're different.
Laurel Lodged (
talk) 07:19, 7 May 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Governors-General (Military Governors) of Moscow
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Nominator's rationale:rename, the current category name is unnecessary long.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 07:23, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Comment and support I just opened the first article in the category,
Jacob Bruce. It doesn't even mention that he was military governor of Moscow. It is mentioned only on one of the images in the article. Then I saw the same problem on te second article,
Alexander Buturlin. Hm. In any case, per
Mayor_of_Moscow#Governors-General_of_Moscow_(1709–1917) I support the rename.
Debresser (
talk) 08:37, 3 May 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Municipal City Heads (gorodskoy golova) of Moscow
Category:Politburo of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union candidate members
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The result of the discussion was:keep. bibliomaniac15 03:44, 13 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Thanks, I have added that to this nomination.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 07:44, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Obviously keep. There is no any reason for deletion. In Soviet Russia... candiadte is not just candidate. It was the title of very powerful office, among the highest leaders of the country (see
Politburo members and
27th Politburo organized as full members and candidates combined). In the same time, members of parliaments or nominal officeholders didn't have real political power, only Communist Party members made real and final decisions (I think it is similar system in China:
Xi Jinping was
finally chosen the next leader in 2007, but officially appointed only in 2012). For example, from
Russian President's biography: "on 18 February 1986, Yeltsin was invited to become a Candidate (non-voting) Member of the Politburo. As a politburo member, Yeltsin was also given a country house (dacha) which was previously occupied by Gorbachev. ... At the next meeting of the Central Committee on 24 February 1988, Yeltsin was removed from his position as a Candidate member of the Politburo. He was perturbed and humiliated...".
TarzanASG (
talk) 08:34, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
If I understand correctly, these candidates attended the meetings but were not allowed to vote. How powerful is that?
Marcocapelle (
talk) 11:42, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
I don't know about voting mechanism in Politburo, but full name is Political Bureau of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union. All of them are voting members of the Central Committee. The most powerful members of the Central Committee were appointed as full members or they were appointed as candidates of Political Bureau of the Central Committee. Obviously candidates are less powerful than full members, but they are very powerful among ordinary members of the Central Committee.
TarzanASG (
talk) 12:29, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
You just quoted about non-voting power.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 15:25, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Keep per
TarzanASG. It's disappointing to see another nomination by Marcocapelle which wrongly assumes that the power structures of the Soviet Bloc mirror those of liberal democracies. --
BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (
contribs) 11:59, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Please do not make unjustified speculations about my assumptions, keep to facts.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 15:25, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
I was commenting on your rationale: we usually do not categorize candidates for anything. That's an assumption that the word "candidate" carries the same meaning as it does in other contexts, whereas in this case candidate status conferred a right to become active participants in the Politburo. That's wholly different to the status of e.g. candidates for the
United States Senate or the
House of Commons of the United Kingdom. Instead of taking offence, it would be better to withdraw the nomination. --
BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (
contribs) 18:00, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
It is not speculative. Your nomination failed to note the distinction. --
BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (
contribs) 22:39, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
The word candidate can be used in many different contexts. The fact that I am not describing all those different contexts should not logically lead to the conclusion that I am not aware of that. It was simply a case of
WP:PERSONAL.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 04:24, 3 May 2020 (UTC)reply
It was not a comment on any failure, it was speculation that I "assume that the power structures of the Soviet Bloc mirror those of liberal democracies". That is something completely different. Don't twist your own words.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 17:36, 3 May 2020 (UTC)reply
I am not twisting anything. If you believed that there was some material distinction between Politburo candidates and other types of candidate, then that should have been mentioned in the nomination to avoid misleading anyone. I was AGFing that you nominated on the basis of a mistaken assumption about the power structures rather than by consciously omitting pertinent info. Sorry if my AGF was misplaced. --
BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (
contribs) 17:51, 3 May 2020 (UTC)reply
I've looked at a sample of the articles and many don't mention this characteristic. For example, compare the text and the categories at
Petru Pascari. Thus, I'm inclined to delete (or possibly purge or upmerge) on the basis on NONDEF. DexDor(talk) 20:16, 3 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Comment My mind could potentially be changed with an affirmative argument to keep these categories: "These particular positions were defining in the Soviet Union because... "
RevelationDirect (
talk) 00:47, 5 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Keep. These ranks seem to be very notable positions in the Soviet cursus honorum. For instance,
Felix Dzerzhinsky, a most important Soviet political figure, "only" made it to candidate member of the Politburo and was never a "full" member.
Place Clichy (
talk) 14:39, 8 May 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Snakes by common name
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The result of the discussion was:rename. bibliomaniac15 03:47, 13 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Seems very close to
WP:SHAREDNAME. Is that fact that a snake has a common name, and that Wikipedia has chosen to locate its article on that critter at that address, not at its scientific name, really defining for the snake?
Carlossuarez46 (
talk) 00:20, 6 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Indeed - whether an article about a species (etc) is (currently) at a common name or the scientific name shouldn't affect what categories the article is in (it's the same topic). Articles about species (e.g.
Yellow-naped snake and
Javan spitting cobra) have been removed from this category on that basis. The rename to avoid "by" (and subsequent changes to the category text) may make this clearer. The pages remaining in this category are things like
Fox snake. DexDor(talk) 05:31, 6 May 2020 (UTC)reply
I've added
garter snake and
gopher snake, the latter a redirect to an article named for the genus - which ought not make a difference because where WP puts an article is immaterial to its inclusion, right.
Carlossuarez46 (
talk) 17:41, 8 May 2020 (UTC)reply
I don't understand why the gopher snake redirect would be in this category - it's not (a redirect to) an article (e.g. an SIA) about a snake common name and there are
hundreds of similar redirects. DexDor(talk) 06:41, 9 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Support, consistent with names of similar categories.
Plantdrew (
talk) 01:55, 11 May 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Associations
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The result of the discussion was:no action, further nomination required. –
FayenaticLondon 14:48, 17 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: Match the mainspace page
Voluntary association.
Association is a disambiguation page. The headnote says this is for unincorporated associations, but most of the members seem to be incorporated. Most of the members appear to be voluntary associations. The natural meaning of "association" is fairly ambiguous, leading to many pages being included here just based on their names.
Jfhutson (
talk) 01:57, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Question@
Jfhutson: The headnote's "unincorporated" associations is definitely out. What's the plan with he continent/country subcategories if this passes?
RevelationDirect (
talk) 07:17, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
I'm up for a split proposed above by Marcocapelle or some other fix.
RevelationDirect (
talk) 02:27, 10 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Keep for now, and discuss how to merge this with
Category:Organizations by type and
Category:Organizations by subject. In principle, I agree with the split that
Marcocapelle has suggested; however, I think that those two target categories themselves have almost no difference and should be merged in some way (I think "subject" to "type," considering scope and also creation date), and so deciding how to split the contents of Associations between the two is a fraught venture. I'd really like to see all three of these merged together into one category, but I think that's a better topic for a future discussion. bibliomaniac15 17:51, 15 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Yeah, I think this should be closed and a completely new nomination opened. bibliomaniac15 02:37, 16 May 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Prometheus Award-winning works
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The result of the discussion was:delete. bibliomaniac15 03:56, 13 May 2020 (UTC)reply
The
Prometheus Award is for
libertarian science fiction and I can certainly see how libertarians would be inspired by resistance to government overreach in Fahrenheit 451 and It Can't Happen Here but neither work presents libertarianism as the alternative. And neither conservative
Ray Bradbury nor progressive
Sinclair Lewis are even remotely defined by this libertarian award. The authors who are libertarian are already well categorized but the minority of these books that are explicitly libertarian should stay in the category tree. The contents are already listified
here in the main article. -
RevelationDirect (
talk) 00:06, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
*RFC There is an open request for comments on proposed changes to
WP:OCAWARD. Your input (pro/con/other) is always welcome
here. -RD
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Category:Literaturpreis der Reichshauptstadt Berlin Award-winning works
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The result of the discussion was:delete. For reference, in case anyone wants to make an article about this in the future, the only entry in this category was
Hasko. bibliomaniac15 03:55, 13 May 2020 (UTC)reply
In lieu of a
Literaturpreis der Reichshauptstadt Berlin Award main article, the actual category has an introduction that explains this is a German award issued from 1935-40. I can't definitively say that this award is non-defining but there is nothing in English Wikipedia that even hints it might be. There's only
one article here so there's really nothing to listify. -
RevelationDirect (
talk) 00:06, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
*RFC There is an open request for comments on proposed changes to
WP:OCAWARD. Your input (pro/con/other) is always welcome
here. -RD
Articlise the category as suggested. The German WP (though I do not understand the language) indicates this was a national prise of the Nazi era and that there is scope to expand the list.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 16:09, 4 May 2020 (UTC)reply
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