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Category:Pedagogues
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Category:Finnish teachers
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Support -- Both articles in the subject fit well into the target. However there will also be those who teach Finnish as a foreign language, which would be a different category.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
17:46, 28 January 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Dúnedain of the North
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Support per nom. (PS: It'd be much too much of an in-joke to say "merge to Cat:Edáinburgh" - I live in Dunedin, the "Edinburgh of the South")
Grutness...wha?02:58, 27 January 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Bagmati Zone geography stubs
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Category:Modern Turkic states
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Support we are not taking positions on what makes a state "Turkic". If having the majority of the people more fluent in a Turkic language than a non-Turkic one, then Kazakhstan is probably out. If you include states with large minorities in order to get Kazakhstan back in, we then would have to also add Russia, Iran, China, Mongolia, Ukraine, Greece, Bulgaria etc which would obviously be a recipe for edit warring. Thus the only objective criterion is the political one.--
Calthinus (
talk)
03:20, 26 January 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Immigration detention centres and prisons in Australia
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Category:Native Hawaiian people of Portuguese descent
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Category:Wikipedia help overviews
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Nominator's rationale: The category is an arbitrary grouping of various help, policy, and guidelines pages and categories of those. There are quite a number of different ways in which such pages are already grouped and presented to users including, but not limited to,
Help:Contents (the main help page, available from the side bar),
Template:Basic information (navbox, placed on some of the top-level Help and Project namespace pages), and
Category:Wikipedia directories. —
andrybak (
talk)
21:49, 17 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Keep. the category's scope and role is based on a basic concept of which help articles are most helpful, as overviews or pathways to broad topical areas within the general category of help articles at WIkipedia. --
Sm8900 (
talk)
01:56, 20 January 2020 (UTC)reply
all help sub-categories are somewhat subjective, in deciding which articles are “article elements help,” text help, etc etc. the concept of “overview” is clear enough; all one needs is the dictionary definition for that word. This category is simply meant to help others. Let’s keep it. The scope and shape of the category can always be modified or tweaked, based on whichever articles we editors as a community decide to include there. Thanks.—
Sm8900 (
talk)
14:29, 20 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Delete/merge. The arguments that this category is subjective and unnecessary are stronger. The category creator's view that the concept of “overview” is clear enough [to categorize by] is wrong. DexDor(talk)07:45, 26 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Disagree. There are many categories at Wikipedia which incorporate some type of concept in their name. the usage and scope of a category develops based on how the the category itself is utilized in practical terms, i.e. by the dozens of editors who edit and watch the articles contained in this category. In this case, this category is of practical value, as it compiles various central help articles which can help new editors to find more advanced guidelines and help articles. --
Sm8900 (
talk)
Delete rather than merge. This new category seems only to have been added to pages, rather than replacing previous categories on the page, so there should be no need to merge. –
FayenaticLondon08:24, 25 February 2020 (UTC)reply
I would like to point out, our category system happens to include these categories, as well:
. so it seems to me like our category system already encompasses a variety of differing approaches, to similar or overlapping topics. --
Sm8900 (
talk)
02:58, 4 March 2020 (UTC)reply
Comment I'm not enough of a category expert to say whether this is a category we should keep or delete, but I fully support reducing the redundancy of the overview help categories and pages. Contributors to this discussion may also be interested in the proposals to redirect
WP:Introduction and
the welcoming committee intro page.
Sdkb (
talk)
22:18, 11 March 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Fishing television channels
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Category:User-created templates
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Nominator's rationale: All templates are technically "User-created". The description makes it seem that it is some
non-defining subcategory of
Category: User namespace templates: Category for User-created templates. Any templates in this category were placed here because they were already part of Category: User namespace templates. —
andrybak (
talk)
08:12, 17 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Delete. It is difficult to imagine what this is supposed to mean. If it really means "user-created templates" then it is pointless, as all templates are User-created. (And there's nothing "technical" about that: they just are user-created.) If it doesn't mean that then what does it mean? The creator of
Category:User-created templates has put a notice on the category page saying "Any templates in this category were placed here because they were already part of Category: User namespace templates". Does that mean that it is actually intended to be a duplicate of
Category:User namespace templates? If not, in what way is it intended to differ, and what additional purpose is it intended to serve? Unless good answers to those two questions can be provided, this seems to be a pointless fork of an existing category, with no useful purpose.
JBW (
talk) Formerly JamesBWatson11:46, 17 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Neutral. I am changing my vote on this, to Neutral. --
Sm8900 (
talk) 20:40, 19 February 2020 (UTC) hi there, folks. okay, lots to cover here. basically I created this category for templates that are sub-pages for individual editor's user pages; so for example, the category's is meant for items with names like "
User:FisherQueen/Fq-undelete". so that's the reason for the category and its scope. however, the point above about the category name is very perceptive. I actually hadn't thought of that. I appreciate your point on that,
andrybak. thanks! :okay, so please feel free to let me know what might be a good name for this. I'm trying to think about options. I realize
Category:User page templates would not work; that category already exists, and it is for templates that are used on user pages. hm, what else? --
Sm8900 (
talk)
17:32, 17 January 2020 (UTC)reply
hi
Andrybak. ok, well yes , I was planning to include those as well. I'm open to any input, comments, technical details, etc, that you wish to share. I appreciate your input. thanks!! --
Sm8900 (
talk)
02:42, 19 January 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Immigration incidents
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Nominator's rationale: Completely undefined. Better dispersed to the categories of the countries involved (all the articles are already in appropriate categories). If it included all "Immigration incidents" it would have thousands of articles.
Rathfelder (
talk)
08:45, 25 January 2020 (UTC)reply
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Weak oppose. Yes, these fails
WP:SMALLCAT, but that's a guideline, and all guidelines are subject to some exceptions. In this case, replacing one category with four seems unhelpful to both maintenance and navigation, so I prefer to treat this as a useful exception which aids both maintenance and navigation. --
BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (
contribs)
18:15, 27 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Except for one article, even after this merge these articles will not be in an awful lot of categories. Besides some of the articles are in some parent's categories already.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
03:29, 28 January 2020 (UTC)reply
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Religion and sexuality
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Nominator's rationale: merge/rename, there is so little content specifically on religion and transgender topics (see
Category:Transgender topics and religion) or specifically on religion and bisexuality, that in the above cases it does not make much sense to have an LGBT and a homosexuality category on top of each other.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
07:41, 25 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Support The multitudinous slicing of LGBT categories is tiresome to behold and tedious to maintain. I doubt that the nom would agree with these sentiments; nevertheless the proposal is to be welcomed.
Laurel Lodged (
talk)
10:39, 25 January 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Categories by psychoactive drug
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Category:Suraiya
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Nominator's rationale: Article apparently created in category space in error; requesting conversion to article, with no opinion on notability of subject.
PohranicniStraze (
talk)
06:50, 25 January 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Middle-earth deities
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Nominator's rationale: Okay, so this will seem a bit granular to those not familiar with Tolkien's works, but the articles and subcats in this category are not deities in the sense that they never receive worship. The figures in this category are more what would be referred to as angels and demons in Abrahamic religions, so I feel like it would be better to use Tolkien's term of "Ainur."
Hog Farm (
talk)
01:59, 25 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Strong Oppose - Please no. Just delete. The category members are already in {[:Category:Middle-earth characters]]. I suppose I wouldn't strongly oppose merging to
Category:Fictional deities and spirits, as that seems a bit more neutral, but, still not great. (And no, they are not "races".) - jc3721:08, 25 January 2020 (UTC)reply
I could weakly support that, as it at least removes much of the connotative adjective issue with the nom's proposed target. These waters just start to get a bit troublesome grouping them all as Ainur. Some of the spirits (such as
Balrogs), were merely noted by the elves as "presumed" to be former maia. Tolkien was indeterminate on such things intentionally, often showing that there were many different powers in the world, and not all easily quantified.
Ungoliant for another example. I still think the best answer is to Rename to
Category:Middle-earth deities and spirits. - jc3719:35, 26 January 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Pedagogues
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Category:Finnish teachers
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Support -- Both articles in the subject fit well into the target. However there will also be those who teach Finnish as a foreign language, which would be a different category.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
17:46, 28 January 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Dúnedain of the North
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Support per nom. (PS: It'd be much too much of an in-joke to say "merge to Cat:Edáinburgh" - I live in Dunedin, the "Edinburgh of the South")
Grutness...wha?02:58, 27 January 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Bagmati Zone geography stubs
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Category:Modern Turkic states
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Support we are not taking positions on what makes a state "Turkic". If having the majority of the people more fluent in a Turkic language than a non-Turkic one, then Kazakhstan is probably out. If you include states with large minorities in order to get Kazakhstan back in, we then would have to also add Russia, Iran, China, Mongolia, Ukraine, Greece, Bulgaria etc which would obviously be a recipe for edit warring. Thus the only objective criterion is the political one.--
Calthinus (
talk)
03:20, 26 January 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Immigration detention centres and prisons in Australia
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Category:Native Hawaiian people of Portuguese descent
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Category:Wikipedia help overviews
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Nominator's rationale: The category is an arbitrary grouping of various help, policy, and guidelines pages and categories of those. There are quite a number of different ways in which such pages are already grouped and presented to users including, but not limited to,
Help:Contents (the main help page, available from the side bar),
Template:Basic information (navbox, placed on some of the top-level Help and Project namespace pages), and
Category:Wikipedia directories. —
andrybak (
talk)
21:49, 17 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Keep. the category's scope and role is based on a basic concept of which help articles are most helpful, as overviews or pathways to broad topical areas within the general category of help articles at WIkipedia. --
Sm8900 (
talk)
01:56, 20 January 2020 (UTC)reply
all help sub-categories are somewhat subjective, in deciding which articles are “article elements help,” text help, etc etc. the concept of “overview” is clear enough; all one needs is the dictionary definition for that word. This category is simply meant to help others. Let’s keep it. The scope and shape of the category can always be modified or tweaked, based on whichever articles we editors as a community decide to include there. Thanks.—
Sm8900 (
talk)
14:29, 20 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Delete/merge. The arguments that this category is subjective and unnecessary are stronger. The category creator's view that the concept of “overview” is clear enough [to categorize by] is wrong. DexDor(talk)07:45, 26 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Disagree. There are many categories at Wikipedia which incorporate some type of concept in their name. the usage and scope of a category develops based on how the the category itself is utilized in practical terms, i.e. by the dozens of editors who edit and watch the articles contained in this category. In this case, this category is of practical value, as it compiles various central help articles which can help new editors to find more advanced guidelines and help articles. --
Sm8900 (
talk)
Delete rather than merge. This new category seems only to have been added to pages, rather than replacing previous categories on the page, so there should be no need to merge. –
FayenaticLondon08:24, 25 February 2020 (UTC)reply
I would like to point out, our category system happens to include these categories, as well:
. so it seems to me like our category system already encompasses a variety of differing approaches, to similar or overlapping topics. --
Sm8900 (
talk)
02:58, 4 March 2020 (UTC)reply
Comment I'm not enough of a category expert to say whether this is a category we should keep or delete, but I fully support reducing the redundancy of the overview help categories and pages. Contributors to this discussion may also be interested in the proposals to redirect
WP:Introduction and
the welcoming committee intro page.
Sdkb (
talk)
22:18, 11 March 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Fishing television channels
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Category:User-created templates
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Nominator's rationale: All templates are technically "User-created". The description makes it seem that it is some
non-defining subcategory of
Category: User namespace templates: Category for User-created templates. Any templates in this category were placed here because they were already part of Category: User namespace templates. —
andrybak (
talk)
08:12, 17 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Delete. It is difficult to imagine what this is supposed to mean. If it really means "user-created templates" then it is pointless, as all templates are User-created. (And there's nothing "technical" about that: they just are user-created.) If it doesn't mean that then what does it mean? The creator of
Category:User-created templates has put a notice on the category page saying "Any templates in this category were placed here because they were already part of Category: User namespace templates". Does that mean that it is actually intended to be a duplicate of
Category:User namespace templates? If not, in what way is it intended to differ, and what additional purpose is it intended to serve? Unless good answers to those two questions can be provided, this seems to be a pointless fork of an existing category, with no useful purpose.
JBW (
talk) Formerly JamesBWatson11:46, 17 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Neutral. I am changing my vote on this, to Neutral. --
Sm8900 (
talk) 20:40, 19 February 2020 (UTC) hi there, folks. okay, lots to cover here. basically I created this category for templates that are sub-pages for individual editor's user pages; so for example, the category's is meant for items with names like "
User:FisherQueen/Fq-undelete". so that's the reason for the category and its scope. however, the point above about the category name is very perceptive. I actually hadn't thought of that. I appreciate your point on that,
andrybak. thanks! :okay, so please feel free to let me know what might be a good name for this. I'm trying to think about options. I realize
Category:User page templates would not work; that category already exists, and it is for templates that are used on user pages. hm, what else? --
Sm8900 (
talk)
17:32, 17 January 2020 (UTC)reply
hi
Andrybak. ok, well yes , I was planning to include those as well. I'm open to any input, comments, technical details, etc, that you wish to share. I appreciate your input. thanks!! --
Sm8900 (
talk)
02:42, 19 January 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Immigration incidents
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Nominator's rationale: Completely undefined. Better dispersed to the categories of the countries involved (all the articles are already in appropriate categories). If it included all "Immigration incidents" it would have thousands of articles.
Rathfelder (
talk)
08:45, 25 January 2020 (UTC)reply
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Weak oppose. Yes, these fails
WP:SMALLCAT, but that's a guideline, and all guidelines are subject to some exceptions. In this case, replacing one category with four seems unhelpful to both maintenance and navigation, so I prefer to treat this as a useful exception which aids both maintenance and navigation. --
BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (
contribs)
18:15, 27 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Except for one article, even after this merge these articles will not be in an awful lot of categories. Besides some of the articles are in some parent's categories already.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
03:29, 28 January 2020 (UTC)reply
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Religion and sexuality
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Nominator's rationale: merge/rename, there is so little content specifically on religion and transgender topics (see
Category:Transgender topics and religion) or specifically on religion and bisexuality, that in the above cases it does not make much sense to have an LGBT and a homosexuality category on top of each other.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
07:41, 25 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Support The multitudinous slicing of LGBT categories is tiresome to behold and tedious to maintain. I doubt that the nom would agree with these sentiments; nevertheless the proposal is to be welcomed.
Laurel Lodged (
talk)
10:39, 25 January 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Categories by psychoactive drug
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Category:Suraiya
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Nominator's rationale: Article apparently created in category space in error; requesting conversion to article, with no opinion on notability of subject.
PohranicniStraze (
talk)
06:50, 25 January 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Middle-earth deities
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Nominator's rationale: Okay, so this will seem a bit granular to those not familiar with Tolkien's works, but the articles and subcats in this category are not deities in the sense that they never receive worship. The figures in this category are more what would be referred to as angels and demons in Abrahamic religions, so I feel like it would be better to use Tolkien's term of "Ainur."
Hog Farm (
talk)
01:59, 25 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Strong Oppose - Please no. Just delete. The category members are already in {[:Category:Middle-earth characters]]. I suppose I wouldn't strongly oppose merging to
Category:Fictional deities and spirits, as that seems a bit more neutral, but, still not great. (And no, they are not "races".) - jc3721:08, 25 January 2020 (UTC)reply
I could weakly support that, as it at least removes much of the connotative adjective issue with the nom's proposed target. These waters just start to get a bit troublesome grouping them all as Ainur. Some of the spirits (such as
Balrogs), were merely noted by the elves as "presumed" to be former maia. Tolkien was indeterminate on such things intentionally, often showing that there were many different powers in the world, and not all easily quantified.
Ungoliant for another example. I still think the best answer is to Rename to
Category:Middle-earth deities and spirits. - jc3719:35, 26 January 2020 (UTC)reply
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