Conflicts by millennium, century and decade up to 1000 AD
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
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The result of the discussion was:No consensus.
Timrollpickering 13:53, 23 October 2018 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: rename/merge as follow-up on
this previous discussion. In Antiquity and Middle Ages "conflicts" and "military history" nearly coincide in terms of Wikipedia content. In the previous discussion there was a preference to use the somewhat broader term "military history". This nomination only considers the period up to 1000 AD, because from there on the conflicts tree starts diffusing by year, so for the period of 1000-1499 there will be another follow-up nomination.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 05:43, 19 September 2018 (UTC)reply
Support -- This implements my vote for reverse merge on the previous discussion.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 15:10, 23 September 2018 (UTC)reply
Keep all and create all the targets as parent categories. There will be articles on military history in the XXXs which are not conflicts.
Oculi (
talk) 18:48, 23 September 2018 (UTC)reply
Keep all and create all the targets as parent categories. I agree with Oculi's reasoning.
Dimadick (
talk) 05:16, 24 September 2018 (UTC)reply
The question is not whether there will be articles on military history in the XXXs which are not conflicts, the question is whether in these distant periods we may expect a reasonable number of articles per category (i.e. per century or per decade) that are not conflicts. Currently that is not the case at all, for example we only have 11 articles about military alliances in the entire antiquity.
WP:OVERLAPCAT does not require that categories are 100% overlapping, it just requires a large overlap.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 06:36, 24 September 2018 (UTC)reply
There are treaties as well. Look at
Category:1957 in military history: there are many items which are neither conflicts nor alliances nor treaties. It is not 'overlapcat' at all - any subcat always overlaps completely with a parent cat. A conflict is best categorised as a conflict.
Oculi (
talk) 12:46, 24 September 2018 (UTC)reply
The amount of content in 1957 is entirely incomparable with ancient and medieval times. We have about 60 articles about treaties from the 5th century BC up to the 10th century AD, that is on average 0.3 articles on treaties per decade category. Of course any subcat always overlaps completely with a parent cat but here we have a case that the amount of content of the parent cat almost completely overlaps with one subcat, and this is what
WP:OVERLAPCAT is about.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 20:57, 24 September 2018 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Good Ol’factory(talk) 11:31, 7 October 2018 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Good Ol’factory(talk) 23:54, 15 October 2018 (UTC)reply
Comment -
WP:OVERLAPCAT is nothing at all to do with cases where a parent category has no articles and 1 subcat. There are many cases (with which there is no problem at all) where this arises.
WP:OVERLAPCAT is a section of
Wikipedia:Overcategorization, also known as "category clutter". These categories produce no clutter.
Oculi (
talk) 09:19, 16 October 2018 (UTC)reply
They do not produce clutter, they produce unnecessary additional navigational effort (unnecessary because one category layer contains hardly any articles). That is a different adverse effect of
WP:OVERLAPCAT.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 19:26, 17 October 2018 (UTC)reply
After all merging is completed the 10th century will contain 10 subcats by decade, 5 subcats by war, a fortifications subcat and a military units subcat. That is perfectly fine, isn't it?
Marcocapelle (
talk) 19:26, 17 October 2018 (UTC)reply
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Category:People associated with EOS
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Nominator's rationale: Underpopulated subcategory, merge with parent category. —
Frayæ (
Talk/
Spjall) 14:07, 15 October 2018 (UTC)reply
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Category:People associated with Zcash
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Nominator's rationale: Underpopulated subcategory, merge with parent category. —
Frayæ (
Talk/
Spjall) 14:06, 15 October 2018 (UTC)reply
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Category:People associated with Bitcoin Cash
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Nominator's rationale: Underpopulated subcategory, merge with parent category. —
Frayæ (
Talk/
Spjall) 14:06, 15 October 2018 (UTC)reply
Merge per nominator.
...William, is the complaint department really on
the roof? 18:07, 15 October 2018 (UTC)reply
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Category:Bitcoin Cash
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Category:Rajput chiefs
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Nominator's rationale: This is categorisation by caste, which we do not do. Some past history regarding the consensus is noted at
User:Sitush/Common#Castecats.
Sitush (
talk) 08:30, 15 October 2018 (UTC)reply
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Category:People from Shadwell, West Yorkshire
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Nominator's rationale: This is a people category for a village; currently contains only one article,
Robin Blaze. Note: if this is not merged, then the London category
People from Shadwell should be disambiguated. –
FayenaticLondon 07:29, 15 October 2018 (UTC)reply
Merge per nominator.
...William, is the complaint department really on
the roof? 17:35, 15 October 2018 (UTC)reply
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Category:Films shot in the Czech Republic
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Nominator's rationale: Some of these films, especially in the subcat, were actually shot before the establishment of Czech Republic, and a geographic category makes more sense anyway.
Catrìona (
talk) 07:22, 15 October 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose. For films shot in Czechoslovakia, we can have a separate category "Films shot in Czechoslovakia", no need to be overly creative here with terms like "Čechija" or "Czech lands".--
Darwinek (
talk) 19:49, 15 October 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose A Czechoslovakia category makes more sense. It was a relatively long-lived state (1918–1939, 1945–1992), while both theCzech Republic and Slovakia have had a very short lifespan.
Dimadick (
talk) 07:15, 21 October 2018 (UTC)reply
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Category:Sri Lankan military uniforms
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Nominator's rationale: The parent category,
Category:Sri Lankan uniforms, is completely empty except for containing this subcategory. Since this category also only has one article in it, should we simply merge this category to its main parent category? –
numbermaniac 06:13, 15 October 2018 (UTC)reply
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Category:Classical Israel
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
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Nominator's rationale:split, the word 'classical' is normally used only for the Greek and Roman civilizations as such (besides
Classical Greece preceded
Hellenism), I have never seen it been used for countries in the Middle East in the Hellenistic or Roman era. Since we already have a Greek and Roman category in this case, the content can simply be dispersed.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 05:44, 15 October 2018 (UTC)reply
Comment - technically speaking this category was created by me from the understanding that Classical Syria refers to classical era period in the area of modern Syria and Israel/Jordan/Palestine/Lebanon can have similar categories. When rejecting this notion, then perhaps the best fit for Classical Israel is
category:Hasmonean Kingdom which was generally named "Israel" during the period.
GreyShark (
dibra) 06:46, 15 October 2018 (UTC)reply
Fair enough, I have added this as a third target in the nomination.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 19:58, 17 October 2018 (UTC)reply
That is not a problem, since this is a split nomination, not a merge nomination.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 07:03, 21 October 2018 (UTC)reply
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Category:Destroyed landmarks in Spain demolished by period
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Nominator's rationale:rename per actual content: all these landmarks are buildings and structures.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 05:30, 15 October 2018 (UTC)reply
Support Clearer scope.
Dimadick (
talk) 13:04, 19 October 2018 (UTC)reply
Support -- Conforms to established "Buildings and Structures" tree.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 18:35, 21 October 2018 (UTC)reply
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Category:C. Wright Mills
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Nominator's rationale: too thin for an eponymous category. ―
Justin (koavf)❤
T☮
C☺
M☯ 05:23, 15 October 2018 (UTC)reply
Keep. Mills was an important figure in 20th century sociology. There are books that he has written and concepts that he has introduced that should make it into Wikipedia as articles (The Causes of World War Three and Listen, Yankee, for a start). By coincidence, I have recently started a draft at
Draft:Abstracted empiricism, which has a heading in the Oxford Dictionary of Sociology.
bd2412T 12:46, 22 October 2018 (UTC)reply
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Category:Foxhound packs of the United Kingdom
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Merge and also merge in England and Scotland subcats. There are not enough hunts to merit splitting between the British home nations.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 18:36, 21 October 2018 (UTC)reply
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Category:Legislators who represented multiple jurisdictions
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Nominator's rationale: Pure trivia. These can be lists but even that is pretty ropey. This is not defining. ―
Justin (koavf)❤
T☮
C☺
M☯ 04:43, 15 October 2018 (UTC)reply
Delete per nom; nondefining cruft.
Catrìona (
talk) 07:24, 15 October 2018 (UTC)reply
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Conflicts by millennium, century and decade up to 1000 AD
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:No consensus.
Timrollpickering 13:53, 23 October 2018 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: rename/merge as follow-up on
this previous discussion. In Antiquity and Middle Ages "conflicts" and "military history" nearly coincide in terms of Wikipedia content. In the previous discussion there was a preference to use the somewhat broader term "military history". This nomination only considers the period up to 1000 AD, because from there on the conflicts tree starts diffusing by year, so for the period of 1000-1499 there will be another follow-up nomination.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 05:43, 19 September 2018 (UTC)reply
Support -- This implements my vote for reverse merge on the previous discussion.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 15:10, 23 September 2018 (UTC)reply
Keep all and create all the targets as parent categories. There will be articles on military history in the XXXs which are not conflicts.
Oculi (
talk) 18:48, 23 September 2018 (UTC)reply
Keep all and create all the targets as parent categories. I agree with Oculi's reasoning.
Dimadick (
talk) 05:16, 24 September 2018 (UTC)reply
The question is not whether there will be articles on military history in the XXXs which are not conflicts, the question is whether in these distant periods we may expect a reasonable number of articles per category (i.e. per century or per decade) that are not conflicts. Currently that is not the case at all, for example we only have 11 articles about military alliances in the entire antiquity.
WP:OVERLAPCAT does not require that categories are 100% overlapping, it just requires a large overlap.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 06:36, 24 September 2018 (UTC)reply
There are treaties as well. Look at
Category:1957 in military history: there are many items which are neither conflicts nor alliances nor treaties. It is not 'overlapcat' at all - any subcat always overlaps completely with a parent cat. A conflict is best categorised as a conflict.
Oculi (
talk) 12:46, 24 September 2018 (UTC)reply
The amount of content in 1957 is entirely incomparable with ancient and medieval times. We have about 60 articles about treaties from the 5th century BC up to the 10th century AD, that is on average 0.3 articles on treaties per decade category. Of course any subcat always overlaps completely with a parent cat but here we have a case that the amount of content of the parent cat almost completely overlaps with one subcat, and this is what
WP:OVERLAPCAT is about.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 20:57, 24 September 2018 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Good Ol’factory(talk) 11:31, 7 October 2018 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Good Ol’factory(talk) 23:54, 15 October 2018 (UTC)reply
Comment -
WP:OVERLAPCAT is nothing at all to do with cases where a parent category has no articles and 1 subcat. There are many cases (with which there is no problem at all) where this arises.
WP:OVERLAPCAT is a section of
Wikipedia:Overcategorization, also known as "category clutter". These categories produce no clutter.
Oculi (
talk) 09:19, 16 October 2018 (UTC)reply
They do not produce clutter, they produce unnecessary additional navigational effort (unnecessary because one category layer contains hardly any articles). That is a different adverse effect of
WP:OVERLAPCAT.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 19:26, 17 October 2018 (UTC)reply
After all merging is completed the 10th century will contain 10 subcats by decade, 5 subcats by war, a fortifications subcat and a military units subcat. That is perfectly fine, isn't it?
Marcocapelle (
talk) 19:26, 17 October 2018 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:People associated with EOS
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale: Underpopulated subcategory, merge with parent category. —
Frayæ (
Talk/
Spjall) 14:07, 15 October 2018 (UTC)reply
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Category:People associated with Zcash
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Nominator's rationale: Underpopulated subcategory, merge with parent category. —
Frayæ (
Talk/
Spjall) 14:06, 15 October 2018 (UTC)reply
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Category:People associated with Bitcoin Cash
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale: Underpopulated subcategory, merge with parent category. —
Frayæ (
Talk/
Spjall) 14:06, 15 October 2018 (UTC)reply
Merge per nominator.
...William, is the complaint department really on
the roof? 18:07, 15 October 2018 (UTC)reply
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Category:Bitcoin Cash
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Rajput chiefs
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale: This is categorisation by caste, which we do not do. Some past history regarding the consensus is noted at
User:Sitush/Common#Castecats.
Sitush (
talk) 08:30, 15 October 2018 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:People from Shadwell, West Yorkshire
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale: This is a people category for a village; currently contains only one article,
Robin Blaze. Note: if this is not merged, then the London category
People from Shadwell should be disambiguated. –
FayenaticLondon 07:29, 15 October 2018 (UTC)reply
Merge per nominator.
...William, is the complaint department really on
the roof? 17:35, 15 October 2018 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Films shot in the Czech Republic
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
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Nominator's rationale: Some of these films, especially in the subcat, were actually shot before the establishment of Czech Republic, and a geographic category makes more sense anyway.
Catrìona (
talk) 07:22, 15 October 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose. For films shot in Czechoslovakia, we can have a separate category "Films shot in Czechoslovakia", no need to be overly creative here with terms like "Čechija" or "Czech lands".--
Darwinek (
talk) 19:49, 15 October 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose A Czechoslovakia category makes more sense. It was a relatively long-lived state (1918–1939, 1945–1992), while both theCzech Republic and Slovakia have had a very short lifespan.
Dimadick (
talk) 07:15, 21 October 2018 (UTC)reply
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Category:Sri Lankan military uniforms
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
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Nominator's rationale: The parent category,
Category:Sri Lankan uniforms, is completely empty except for containing this subcategory. Since this category also only has one article in it, should we simply merge this category to its main parent category? –
numbermaniac 06:13, 15 October 2018 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
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Category:Classical Israel
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale:split, the word 'classical' is normally used only for the Greek and Roman civilizations as such (besides
Classical Greece preceded
Hellenism), I have never seen it been used for countries in the Middle East in the Hellenistic or Roman era. Since we already have a Greek and Roman category in this case, the content can simply be dispersed.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 05:44, 15 October 2018 (UTC)reply
Comment - technically speaking this category was created by me from the understanding that Classical Syria refers to classical era period in the area of modern Syria and Israel/Jordan/Palestine/Lebanon can have similar categories. When rejecting this notion, then perhaps the best fit for Classical Israel is
category:Hasmonean Kingdom which was generally named "Israel" during the period.
GreyShark (
dibra) 06:46, 15 October 2018 (UTC)reply
Fair enough, I have added this as a third target in the nomination.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 19:58, 17 October 2018 (UTC)reply
That is not a problem, since this is a split nomination, not a merge nomination.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 07:03, 21 October 2018 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
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Category:Destroyed landmarks in Spain demolished by period
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale:rename per actual content: all these landmarks are buildings and structures.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 05:30, 15 October 2018 (UTC)reply
Support Clearer scope.
Dimadick (
talk) 13:04, 19 October 2018 (UTC)reply
Support -- Conforms to established "Buildings and Structures" tree.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 18:35, 21 October 2018 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:C. Wright Mills
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talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale: too thin for an eponymous category. ―
Justin (koavf)❤
T☮
C☺
M☯ 05:23, 15 October 2018 (UTC)reply
Keep. Mills was an important figure in 20th century sociology. There are books that he has written and concepts that he has introduced that should make it into Wikipedia as articles (The Causes of World War Three and Listen, Yankee, for a start). By coincidence, I have recently started a draft at
Draft:Abstracted empiricism, which has a heading in the Oxford Dictionary of Sociology.
bd2412T 12:46, 22 October 2018 (UTC)reply
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talk page or in a
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Category:Foxhound packs of the United Kingdom
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talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Merge and also merge in England and Scotland subcats. There are not enough hunts to merit splitting between the British home nations.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 18:36, 21 October 2018 (UTC)reply
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Category:Legislators who represented multiple jurisdictions
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
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Nominator's rationale: Pure trivia. These can be lists but even that is pretty ropey. This is not defining. ―
Justin (koavf)❤
T☮
C☺
M☯ 04:43, 15 October 2018 (UTC)reply
Delete per nom; nondefining cruft.
Catrìona (
talk) 07:24, 15 October 2018 (UTC)reply
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