The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was:delete/merge as proposed. There is consensus that video games by genre shouldn't also be categorized by year. The majority successfully argued why this is overcategorization. --
Tavix(
talk) 19:52, 31 August 2016 (UTC)reply
Keep all, possibly except for the handful of earlier years that may have been emptied out of process. I can't find a single argument why these categories should be merged, neither in the (missing) rationale nor at
Wikipedia talk:VG#Genre by year categories, nor at
WP:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 June 13#Category:Role-playing video games by year which was closed without action. IMO these are valid intersections, avoiding a behemoth category containing 1000+ articles. Alternative categorization schemes per specific type, platform etc. exist (see
Category:Role-playing video games), so there are various ways to find the video game someone is looking for. In the fast-paced video games business, categorization by year of introductionis adequate, as most of these games are soon forgotten anyway. --
PanchoS (
talk) 23:55, 24 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete/merge as nom'ed. Years for video games are not as precise a split of information as compared to platform or country of release - even for avid gamers, the year that a specific game came out is unlikely to be something easily remembered compared to the platform or release country. There's little different whether the game came out in 1995 or 1996 (for example) compared to the difference between a SNES and an N64 title. External tools for category intersection to overlap the broad release years and the genres are sufficient to handle anyone that needs to find this out. --
MASEM (
t) 00:42, 25 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Platform might be more relevant, but is quite unspecific, even more so with multi-platform games. Subgenre might be more relevant, but clearly is less precise, rather than more precise. Even if a particular reader doesn't exactly remember whether a game came out in 1995 or in 1996, the previous or next year would be just a single click away. External tools are something for Wikipedia nerds, not for regular users. All in all, I still fail to see a single valid reason to purge these categories. Personally, I'm no gamer, and am not interested in video games at all. But I can't help, this again seems like an
WP:OWNERSHIP issue with some portal people, which constitutes quite a big problem for our community. So no, not convinced. Give me a single valid argument, preferably policy-backed. --
PanchoS (
talk) 01:16, 25 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Necessary or not is not the point here – better or not is. Having these games categorized per year is not necessary, but it is better. Also note that "redundancy of lists and categories is beneficial because the two formats work together," per
WP:LISTPURP#Lists and categories, and that "arguing that a category duplicates a list (or vice versa) at a deletion discussion is not a valid reason for deletion and should be avoided." per
WP:NOTDUPE. --
PanchoS (
talk) 11:42, 25 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Keep decades and merge the annual items in: there seems to be a large enough population for that split. A general category will be too large and mix the simple games of earlier periods with complicated ones made possible by increasing computer power.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 19:18, 26 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Change vote Above, I went for the nomination to delete all, but this seems a better solution.
Twiceuponatime (
talk) 09:22, 30 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete. My issue is with the phrasing, "introduced in". Does
Category:Role-playing video games introduced in 2014 mean they were "introduced", revealed, presented by a studio or developer in 2014? Because that doesn't seem a necessary category to me. Or where the games published in 2014? It seems to be the latter, so the correct way of phrasing would be
Category:2014 role-playing video games, but that would make the category redundant because of
Category:2014 video games. A category for year of release is useful, a category for the genre is too. A category of a game in a genre in that year of release is
WP:OVERCAT.
soetermans.
↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 08:51, 1 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Tend to oppose, I haven't seen a clear rationale to merge and the categories look fine as they are (insofar they weren't prematurely emptied).
Marcocapelle (
talk) 06:13, 2 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Comment: nominator, please ensure to notify major contributors of categories you nominate for deletion.
Mindmatrix 14:48, 2 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Comment: note that these categories are being emptied by an editor (who may or may not have been aware of this discussion), in the event someone wants to use an argument such as "some of these categories are empty anyway".
Mindmatrix 14:48, 2 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Note also that many of the categories were populated by the same editor czar 16:48, 2 July 2016 (UTC)reply
All empty categories in the tree (those for 1975 to 1986) were originally created by me and subsequently populated by me. Many of the additions for those categories are found in
this subset of my contributions. The editor to which you refer simply added more articles to other categories in the tree, then deleted them when he received a warning from other users. (Why a warning was issued about adding articles to an extant category is a different matter.)
Mindmatrix 21:47, 8 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete and merge per nom. The original concern was that these were triple intersections between the genre and the year. Aside from the imprecision of "introduced in" mentioned above, my folk understanding is that these categories likely came out of a corruption of
Category:Video game franchises by year. Otherwise none of the other video game genres break down by year. In other media, there is precedence with
Category:Action films by decade, for instance, but not by year. But genres and national origins work differently in film and tend to be much more definitive (many games have role-playing elements, but that does not make them put them in the role-playing genre or into a definitive "2000s role-playing video game". Mind also that the scopes are totally different—the number of
Category:Role-playing video games together with its subcats is near the amount of "2000s action films"... off by orders of magnitude. Until there is consensus for a major shift in doing year/genre subclassification in video game genres, the RPGs in specific have no reason for breaking out. czar 16:48, 2 July 2016 (UTC)reply
You can make your argument without stating that a category will only have X articles in it, or will have fewer articles than some other category. Many of these categories (other than those that were prematurely emptied) include over 30 articles already, which is generally sufficient to keep (ie -
WP:SMALLCAT doesn't apply).
Mindmatrix 21:47, 8 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete and merge per nom. There is no reason to have categories overlapping each other (the one for role-playing game and the one for year). I also fail to see why RPG is the only genre that has this type of category.
AdrianGamer (
talk) 09:47, 3 July 2016 (UTC)reply
They only exist for RPGs because I split "video game RPGs by year" from "RPGs by year". (I was subcatting from the gaming side, not the video game side.) I have no interest in video games and didn't want to undertake the effort to do this for other video game genres. Note that
WP:OTHERSTUFFDOESNTEXIST is not a valid argument for deletion.
Mindmatrix 21:47, 8 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete (and restore original categories in articles) for
same reason as before as arbitrary subcategorization not done for any other defining characteristic. We already have by year and by genre categorization. This doesn't serve to diffuse neither the main genre nor time period categories. "video game" and "year" are already part of cross-categorization, and triple cross-categorization is technical overkill of no interest to general reader (otherwise, we could argue any major video game cross categorization is valid - year + by platform, by developer, by engine, etc.). —
HELLKNOWZ ▎
TALK 17:27, 23 July 2016 (UTC)reply
In a week it'll be two months since the start of this discussion. No
deadline, but since we're dealing with such a huge list of categories, perhaps we can work on this. So for, there are four votes for keep, five votes for delete. One solution would be merging into role-playing games per decade, how does everybody feel about that?
soetermans.
↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 09:06, 14 August 2016 (UTC)reply
The closer will look for consensus and not "votes". Unless we're looking at setting a new precedent for how we deal with triple-intersection categories, I still think deletion is better than decade cats. If this closes with no consensus, decades could be a solution. czar 20:59, 26 August 2016 (UTC)reply
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Category:People categories by parameter
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was:upmerge.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 05:29, 2 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: Technically not all of them are parameters. For instance, "behavior", "ethnicity" and "gender" used in subcats are rather criteria than parameters, so this seems to be a wording issue.
Brandmeistertalk 21:39, 24 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Upmerge to
Category:People. Category names (except possibly for some maintenance categories) shouldn't use the word "categories" - a category is a set of pages (that may or may not be grouped into subcategories). If not upmerged then I'm neutral on "parameter"/"criterion".
User:DexDor 20:29, 26 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Upmerge Agreed. I do seem to recall a few years back having a bunch of Cfds about Foo by parameter, which were all upmerged, for the simple reason that that's why use sortkeys. There's no reason to add this extra layer; people by this or that should indeed be listed and sorted in the top-level category -- where I daresay readers will most expect to find them.
Shawn in Montreal (
talk) 22:29, 28 June 2016 (UTC)reply
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Category:Star Wars Transformers characters
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Nominator's rationale: That these various Star Wars characters appeared as part of a minor toy line in the early '90s is not at all significant, and is (rightly) not mentioned in the various articles about the characters (or, the ones I checked). Seems to a clear example of
overcategorisation on the basis of a non-defining characteristic.
Josh Milburn (
talk) 21:28, 24 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete per nom, more like a funcraft, as the Transformers are mostly known as automotive robots.
Brandmeistertalk 21:49, 24 June 2016 (UTC)reply
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Category:Things named after people
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Delete, however, the 2 subcats may need to be upmerged. See
related discussion for organizations. Note: This category is very incomplete (e.g. it contains
Einsteinium, but not other elements named after people). If ever completed this category would be huge (with many thousands of species, places, buildings ...) DexDor(talk) 20:37, 26 June 2016 (UTC)reply
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Category:Appleseed (manga)
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Nominator's rationale: The category also lists subsequent non-manga continuations, mostly animated films, so could be more inclusive.
Brandmeistertalk 20:55, 24 June 2016 (UTC)reply
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Category:Electric power transmission companies
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Nominator's rationale: This category duplicates the category
category:Electric power transmission system operators which is more precise. If the company is responsible for power transmission, it operates the transmission system and these companies are known as transmission system operators (TSOs).
Beagel (
talk) 19:06, 24 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Comment. Do you have to operate an electric power transmission system to be an electric power transmission company? What about the manufacturers, etc.? ~ RobTalk 19:57, 24 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Do you mean manufacturer of the transmission equipment like cables, transformers etc? I have never heard that anybody has called that kind of manufacturers such as
ABB or
Alstom to electric power transmission company.
Beagel (
talk) 22:17, 24 June 2016 (UTC)reply
@
PanchoS: I never though it was bad-faithed edit and my apologies if there is something in my comment which may created that impression. I think you have made a good work to systematize that area of categories.
Beagel (
talk) 23:31, 24 June 2016 (UTC)reply
@
Beagel: Easy… :) You didn't say anything wrong. I was actually embarrassed by my own misjudgement. Apart from that, everything's fine! Cheers,
PanchoS (
talk) 23:36, 24 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Support "Operators" is more comprehensive and removes that the objection where an emanation of a state is the operator, not a company. The issue of whether they are TSOs may depend on local usage, which may vary from place to place, but manufacturers and construction contractors are clearly not operators. purge if necessary.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 19:44, 26 June 2016 (UTC)reply
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Category:Aspects of individual lives
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Nominator's rationale: The third and last Category:Aspects of..., this one is a real dog's breakfast, grouping everything from Body parts of individual people, to Children by person, to Military careers, etc. etc. I invite people to have a look: it's really something. As to what would be an "aspect" of a life that merits inclusion, that would seem to me to be entirely
WP:ARBITRARYCAT.
Shawn in Montreal (
talk) 17:14, 24 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Keep. Some subcategories, such as criticism, genealogies and legacies may be disputable, and possibly the wording isn't the best we can come up with, but apart from that, there is use for a category holding articles on specific aspects of people's biographies.
Category:People categories by parameter is completely different in that it groups whole biographies of certain people by parameter. If the category's name is thought to be a bit too unspecific, then I suggest a rename. Also please refrain from bringing the serious and precious efforts of fellow Wikipedians into ridicule. Some categories are easy too conceptualize, while others are real work at abstracting. The latter is the greater achievement. --
PanchoS (
talk) 08:55, 25 June 2016 (UTC)reply
That's a fair point on the tone issue, sorry. I would say, though, that "real work at abstracting" in category creation is probably the root problem in many that end up here.
Shawn in Montreal (
talk) 12:54, 25 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Upmerge to
Category:Categories by individual, since I can't tell the difference between the parent and child category. Then in a next nomination the different subcategories should be consistently renamed to "by individual".
Marcocapelle (
talk) 09:50, 25 June 2016 (UTC)reply
That seems like a good idea, unless someone comes up with the ultimate renaming proposal that would implicitly suggest a clearer inclusion criterion. Notified the creator. --
PanchoS (
talk) 10:16, 25 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Support upmerge -- Most of these are about specific people, without being biographies. This gives a certain unity to the present category, but it is something of a dog's breakfast. The target is an ill-populated container. Nevertheless, after merger, we may need to purge.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 10:13, 27 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Support upmerge as category creator. This is essentially a renaming of the category started 8 years ago, and more concise names are fine by me. I had not realized "Aspects" was a profanity at CfD lately, go figure - but I do stand by the usefulness of this type of categorization in tracking/rationalizing these types of sub-biographical articles.--
Pharos (
talk) 11:06, 29 June 2016 (UTC)reply
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Category:Disney Channel Original Movie films
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The result of the discussion was:keep.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 07:04, 24 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: "Disney Channel Original Movie films" sounds awkward and redundant as it already has "Movie" in its name.
nyuszika7h (
talk) 16:05, 24 June 2016 (UTC)reply
if you have a look, we commonly have Fooian Films films for categories like this, which is even more redundant. So I'm afraid this one has zero chance of passing, based on long-standing precedent that we do use the full name of a production studio, no matter how odd it may sound, followed by a lowercase "films." OpposeShawn in Montreal (
talk) 22:13, 24 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Oppose Per
List of Disney Channel original films, the brand name "Disney Channel Original Movies" is used by the
Disney Channel for its television films since 1997. "Movies" here is part of the name, it does not define the topic of the category. The category covers films and should mention films. We generally do not use the term "movie" in articles or categories, instead using the term
film.
Dimadick (
talk) 23:33, 24 June 2016 (UTC)reply
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Category:Aspects of music
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Nominator's rationale: Despite what's claimed on the category page,
Elements of music is the main article. A rename would be the least disruptive way to address this particular "aspects of..." category.
Shawn in Montreal (
talk) 13:26, 24 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Rename. The article was moved without relisting as an RM or waiting for someone to close and find a proper consensus, but seems to be unopposed, see
Talk:Elements_of_music#Requested_move. I have just repaired the page history as the move was done by cut-and-paste. –
FayenaticLondon 15:21, 24 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Sorry, I should have noted and absorbed all that as part of my
WP:BEFORE work. My bad. Well, the Cfd still seems to make sense, even in light of the more complicated backstory. Thanks for the head's up!
Shawn in Montreal (
talk) 17:07, 24 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Support -- especially now the main article is now a redirect to the suggested target. That name much better describes the content.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 10:15, 27 June 2016 (UTC)reply
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Category:Characters of European folklore
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Nominator's rationale: There isn't even consistency in how Stefanomione created these folklore character cats because having created the "folkloristics characters" one below, he also created Characters of European folklore. However, in this one he was influenced -- for the better -- by two preexisting subcats that I also may as well nominate. Here the problem simply seems to be that Fooian characters seems to be the preferred structure in
Category:Fictional characters by medium, the parent to all this.
Shawn in Montreal (
talk) 11:50, 24 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Rename per nom For consistency reasons. Note however that the term
folktale covers oral tradition tales, written fables, fairy tales, folklore, and
old wives' tales. Some of the "characters" in
Category:Characters of Lithuanian folk tales are not fairy tale characters, they are pagan deities. I note for example that the category includes
Perkūnas, the Baltic
thunder god. He may be of particularly ancient origin, as he is a version of the Indo-European deity
Perkwunos.
Dimadick (
talk) 23:54, 24 June 2016 (UTC)reply
REname per nom -- If we were to keep the present order it should be "Characters in ...".
Peterkingiron (
talk) 10:17, 27 June 2016 (UTC)reply
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Category:Folkloristic characters
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Nominator's rationale: Another ham-fisted misuse of "folkloristic" -- field of study of folklore -- by Stefanomione that just makes no sense. If kept as a sibling in
Category:Fictional characters by medium, this would seem to be the model.
Shawn in Montreal (
talk) 11:45, 24 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Support Folkloristic is the wrong adjective for in folklore. --
Mark viking (
talk) 21:04, 24 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Rename per nom. Folklore is the topic here, not folkloristics.
Dimadick (
talk) 23:56, 24 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Rename per nom. However the mere fact that we're talking about a rename rather than deletion qualifies Stefanomione's effort as valuable, in spite of his tendency to academicize concepts that are better expressed in Common sense terms. --
PanchoS (
talk) 10:27, 25 June 2016 (UTC)reply
@
PanchoS: the problem with
Stefanomione was not that all of his category creations lacked value. It was that he seemed unable to learn which of his creations were fine, which were dross, and which needed amendment. This is one of the many variants of third set ... in this case a good idea in poor terminology. --
BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (
contribs) 16:33, 25 June 2016 (UTC)reply
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Category:Sheriffs of Chenango County, New York
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Nominator's rationale: Per
WP:SMALLCAT. Category has just two entries and is unlikely to increase. Local Sheriffs are usually not notable. The two people in this category are notable for other things.
Upmerge per nom -- Three people is not really enough to warrant a category. Sheriffs (like other local politicians) are inherently NN, unless notable for other reasons. If Cherango could boast 6-8 notable sheriffs, I might have supported retention, but will it?
Peterkingiron (
talk) 10:21, 27 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Upmerge per nom and to people from this county cat. We do not need a category for three articles.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 19:59, 29 June 2016 (UTC)reply
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Category:Translatewiki.net
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The result of the discussion was:upmerge to all parents.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 05:51, 2 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: There is only one page in the category. The category will probably not expand.
Gulumeemee (
talk) 08:18, 24 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Merge to all parents, as the member article is only in one other category. –
FayenaticLondon 15:43, 24 June 2016 (UTC)reply
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Category:Economic problem stubs
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Nominator's rationale:upmerge per
WP:SMALLCAT, for stub categories we usually have a minimum size of 60.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 06:34, 24 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Alt merge to
Category:Economic theory stubs, another quite small stub category, which should be a better fit. Don't know if an upmerge to
Category:Economic problems is necessary or too unspecific. I might check the articles the next days, but if someone else does, even better. --
PanchoS (
talk) 02:17, 25 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Quite a few articles in here are definitely not about theory.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 08:27, 25 June 2016 (UTC)reply
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Category:Organizational constructs
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Category:Aspects of organizations
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Support per nom. Good lord, what a terrible notion for a category branch. I see a couple of other categories with "aspects of... " that may be cleaned up, too.
Shawn in Montreal (
talk) 13:23, 24 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Support Too vague to be useful. --
Mark viking (
talk) 22:52, 24 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Support. No idea what the category initially contained, but based on the current content, I can't see a practical value in having this category. --
PanchoS (
talk) 08:58, 25 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Merge per nom -- This is a minute category. Even if the aspirations of the headnote could be met, it will still do no harm for the articles to sit within the target.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 10:26, 27 June 2016 (UTC)reply
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Category:Sia Partners
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Delete per nom and the topic is obscure.
Brandmeistertalk 18:44, 27 June 2016 (UTC)reply
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Category:Expatriate primaries
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The result of the discussion was: no consensus to delete, but it will be renamed as proposed since there isn't any appetite for keeping the category as is. --
Tavix(
talk) 19:20, 31 August 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete far too small a category to justify having it.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 05:05, 27 August 2016 (UTC)reply
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Category:Honorary United States Marines
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Bugs Bunny played a Marine in the movies,
Jim Nabors played one on TV,
Felix de Weldon was a sculptor who designed a Marine memorial, and Cody Green was a child dying of leukaemia who wanted to grow up to be a Marine. (I'm fine with the rabbit, the sculptor and the kid but why the Marines would ever celebrate the idiotic
Gomer Pyle character is beyond me.) None of the
Honorary Marines in this category ever enlisted in the U.S. Marine Corps, they just have some vague association.
Per the article, there is not one agreed upon list of who should be considered an Honorary Marine. The term often seems like more of an informal term of endearment than a formal status:
Bob Hope is in this category because he was half jokingly declared an honorary brigadier general while he was being introduced for a
USO show for the troops. If we decide to delete this category, there is no need to listify because the winners are already listed
here. -
RevelationDirect (
talk) 00:00, 24 June 2016 (UTC)reply
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The result of the discussion was:delete/merge as proposed. There is consensus that video games by genre shouldn't also be categorized by year. The majority successfully argued why this is overcategorization. --
Tavix(
talk) 19:52, 31 August 2016 (UTC)reply
Keep all, possibly except for the handful of earlier years that may have been emptied out of process. I can't find a single argument why these categories should be merged, neither in the (missing) rationale nor at
Wikipedia talk:VG#Genre by year categories, nor at
WP:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 June 13#Category:Role-playing video games by year which was closed without action. IMO these are valid intersections, avoiding a behemoth category containing 1000+ articles. Alternative categorization schemes per specific type, platform etc. exist (see
Category:Role-playing video games), so there are various ways to find the video game someone is looking for. In the fast-paced video games business, categorization by year of introductionis adequate, as most of these games are soon forgotten anyway. --
PanchoS (
talk) 23:55, 24 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete/merge as nom'ed. Years for video games are not as precise a split of information as compared to platform or country of release - even for avid gamers, the year that a specific game came out is unlikely to be something easily remembered compared to the platform or release country. There's little different whether the game came out in 1995 or 1996 (for example) compared to the difference between a SNES and an N64 title. External tools for category intersection to overlap the broad release years and the genres are sufficient to handle anyone that needs to find this out. --
MASEM (
t) 00:42, 25 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Platform might be more relevant, but is quite unspecific, even more so with multi-platform games. Subgenre might be more relevant, but clearly is less precise, rather than more precise. Even if a particular reader doesn't exactly remember whether a game came out in 1995 or in 1996, the previous or next year would be just a single click away. External tools are something for Wikipedia nerds, not for regular users. All in all, I still fail to see a single valid reason to purge these categories. Personally, I'm no gamer, and am not interested in video games at all. But I can't help, this again seems like an
WP:OWNERSHIP issue with some portal people, which constitutes quite a big problem for our community. So no, not convinced. Give me a single valid argument, preferably policy-backed. --
PanchoS (
talk) 01:16, 25 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Necessary or not is not the point here – better or not is. Having these games categorized per year is not necessary, but it is better. Also note that "redundancy of lists and categories is beneficial because the two formats work together," per
WP:LISTPURP#Lists and categories, and that "arguing that a category duplicates a list (or vice versa) at a deletion discussion is not a valid reason for deletion and should be avoided." per
WP:NOTDUPE. --
PanchoS (
talk) 11:42, 25 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Keep decades and merge the annual items in: there seems to be a large enough population for that split. A general category will be too large and mix the simple games of earlier periods with complicated ones made possible by increasing computer power.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 19:18, 26 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Change vote Above, I went for the nomination to delete all, but this seems a better solution.
Twiceuponatime (
talk) 09:22, 30 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete. My issue is with the phrasing, "introduced in". Does
Category:Role-playing video games introduced in 2014 mean they were "introduced", revealed, presented by a studio or developer in 2014? Because that doesn't seem a necessary category to me. Or where the games published in 2014? It seems to be the latter, so the correct way of phrasing would be
Category:2014 role-playing video games, but that would make the category redundant because of
Category:2014 video games. A category for year of release is useful, a category for the genre is too. A category of a game in a genre in that year of release is
WP:OVERCAT.
soetermans.
↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 08:51, 1 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Tend to oppose, I haven't seen a clear rationale to merge and the categories look fine as they are (insofar they weren't prematurely emptied).
Marcocapelle (
talk) 06:13, 2 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Comment: nominator, please ensure to notify major contributors of categories you nominate for deletion.
Mindmatrix 14:48, 2 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Comment: note that these categories are being emptied by an editor (who may or may not have been aware of this discussion), in the event someone wants to use an argument such as "some of these categories are empty anyway".
Mindmatrix 14:48, 2 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Note also that many of the categories were populated by the same editor czar 16:48, 2 July 2016 (UTC)reply
All empty categories in the tree (those for 1975 to 1986) were originally created by me and subsequently populated by me. Many of the additions for those categories are found in
this subset of my contributions. The editor to which you refer simply added more articles to other categories in the tree, then deleted them when he received a warning from other users. (Why a warning was issued about adding articles to an extant category is a different matter.)
Mindmatrix 21:47, 8 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete and merge per nom. The original concern was that these were triple intersections between the genre and the year. Aside from the imprecision of "introduced in" mentioned above, my folk understanding is that these categories likely came out of a corruption of
Category:Video game franchises by year. Otherwise none of the other video game genres break down by year. In other media, there is precedence with
Category:Action films by decade, for instance, but not by year. But genres and national origins work differently in film and tend to be much more definitive (many games have role-playing elements, but that does not make them put them in the role-playing genre or into a definitive "2000s role-playing video game". Mind also that the scopes are totally different—the number of
Category:Role-playing video games together with its subcats is near the amount of "2000s action films"... off by orders of magnitude. Until there is consensus for a major shift in doing year/genre subclassification in video game genres, the RPGs in specific have no reason for breaking out. czar 16:48, 2 July 2016 (UTC)reply
You can make your argument without stating that a category will only have X articles in it, or will have fewer articles than some other category. Many of these categories (other than those that were prematurely emptied) include over 30 articles already, which is generally sufficient to keep (ie -
WP:SMALLCAT doesn't apply).
Mindmatrix 21:47, 8 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete and merge per nom. There is no reason to have categories overlapping each other (the one for role-playing game and the one for year). I also fail to see why RPG is the only genre that has this type of category.
AdrianGamer (
talk) 09:47, 3 July 2016 (UTC)reply
They only exist for RPGs because I split "video game RPGs by year" from "RPGs by year". (I was subcatting from the gaming side, not the video game side.) I have no interest in video games and didn't want to undertake the effort to do this for other video game genres. Note that
WP:OTHERSTUFFDOESNTEXIST is not a valid argument for deletion.
Mindmatrix 21:47, 8 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete (and restore original categories in articles) for
same reason as before as arbitrary subcategorization not done for any other defining characteristic. We already have by year and by genre categorization. This doesn't serve to diffuse neither the main genre nor time period categories. "video game" and "year" are already part of cross-categorization, and triple cross-categorization is technical overkill of no interest to general reader (otherwise, we could argue any major video game cross categorization is valid - year + by platform, by developer, by engine, etc.). —
HELLKNOWZ ▎
TALK 17:27, 23 July 2016 (UTC)reply
In a week it'll be two months since the start of this discussion. No
deadline, but since we're dealing with such a huge list of categories, perhaps we can work on this. So for, there are four votes for keep, five votes for delete. One solution would be merging into role-playing games per decade, how does everybody feel about that?
soetermans.
↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 09:06, 14 August 2016 (UTC)reply
The closer will look for consensus and not "votes". Unless we're looking at setting a new precedent for how we deal with triple-intersection categories, I still think deletion is better than decade cats. If this closes with no consensus, decades could be a solution. czar 20:59, 26 August 2016 (UTC)reply
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Category:People categories by parameter
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The result of the discussion was:upmerge.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 05:29, 2 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: Technically not all of them are parameters. For instance, "behavior", "ethnicity" and "gender" used in subcats are rather criteria than parameters, so this seems to be a wording issue.
Brandmeistertalk 21:39, 24 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Upmerge to
Category:People. Category names (except possibly for some maintenance categories) shouldn't use the word "categories" - a category is a set of pages (that may or may not be grouped into subcategories). If not upmerged then I'm neutral on "parameter"/"criterion".
User:DexDor 20:29, 26 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Upmerge Agreed. I do seem to recall a few years back having a bunch of Cfds about Foo by parameter, which were all upmerged, for the simple reason that that's why use sortkeys. There's no reason to add this extra layer; people by this or that should indeed be listed and sorted in the top-level category -- where I daresay readers will most expect to find them.
Shawn in Montreal (
talk) 22:29, 28 June 2016 (UTC)reply
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Category:Star Wars Transformers characters
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Nominator's rationale: That these various Star Wars characters appeared as part of a minor toy line in the early '90s is not at all significant, and is (rightly) not mentioned in the various articles about the characters (or, the ones I checked). Seems to a clear example of
overcategorisation on the basis of a non-defining characteristic.
Josh Milburn (
talk) 21:28, 24 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete per nom, more like a funcraft, as the Transformers are mostly known as automotive robots.
Brandmeistertalk 21:49, 24 June 2016 (UTC)reply
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Category:Things named after people
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Delete, however, the 2 subcats may need to be upmerged. See
related discussion for organizations. Note: This category is very incomplete (e.g. it contains
Einsteinium, but not other elements named after people). If ever completed this category would be huge (with many thousands of species, places, buildings ...) DexDor(talk) 20:37, 26 June 2016 (UTC)reply
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Category:Appleseed (manga)
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Nominator's rationale: The category also lists subsequent non-manga continuations, mostly animated films, so could be more inclusive.
Brandmeistertalk 20:55, 24 June 2016 (UTC)reply
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Category:Electric power transmission companies
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Nominator's rationale: This category duplicates the category
category:Electric power transmission system operators which is more precise. If the company is responsible for power transmission, it operates the transmission system and these companies are known as transmission system operators (TSOs).
Beagel (
talk) 19:06, 24 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Comment. Do you have to operate an electric power transmission system to be an electric power transmission company? What about the manufacturers, etc.? ~ RobTalk 19:57, 24 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Do you mean manufacturer of the transmission equipment like cables, transformers etc? I have never heard that anybody has called that kind of manufacturers such as
ABB or
Alstom to electric power transmission company.
Beagel (
talk) 22:17, 24 June 2016 (UTC)reply
@
PanchoS: I never though it was bad-faithed edit and my apologies if there is something in my comment which may created that impression. I think you have made a good work to systematize that area of categories.
Beagel (
talk) 23:31, 24 June 2016 (UTC)reply
@
Beagel: Easy… :) You didn't say anything wrong. I was actually embarrassed by my own misjudgement. Apart from that, everything's fine! Cheers,
PanchoS (
talk) 23:36, 24 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Support "Operators" is more comprehensive and removes that the objection where an emanation of a state is the operator, not a company. The issue of whether they are TSOs may depend on local usage, which may vary from place to place, but manufacturers and construction contractors are clearly not operators. purge if necessary.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 19:44, 26 June 2016 (UTC)reply
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Category:Aspects of individual lives
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Nominator's rationale: The third and last Category:Aspects of..., this one is a real dog's breakfast, grouping everything from Body parts of individual people, to Children by person, to Military careers, etc. etc. I invite people to have a look: it's really something. As to what would be an "aspect" of a life that merits inclusion, that would seem to me to be entirely
WP:ARBITRARYCAT.
Shawn in Montreal (
talk) 17:14, 24 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Keep. Some subcategories, such as criticism, genealogies and legacies may be disputable, and possibly the wording isn't the best we can come up with, but apart from that, there is use for a category holding articles on specific aspects of people's biographies.
Category:People categories by parameter is completely different in that it groups whole biographies of certain people by parameter. If the category's name is thought to be a bit too unspecific, then I suggest a rename. Also please refrain from bringing the serious and precious efforts of fellow Wikipedians into ridicule. Some categories are easy too conceptualize, while others are real work at abstracting. The latter is the greater achievement. --
PanchoS (
talk) 08:55, 25 June 2016 (UTC)reply
That's a fair point on the tone issue, sorry. I would say, though, that "real work at abstracting" in category creation is probably the root problem in many that end up here.
Shawn in Montreal (
talk) 12:54, 25 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Upmerge to
Category:Categories by individual, since I can't tell the difference between the parent and child category. Then in a next nomination the different subcategories should be consistently renamed to "by individual".
Marcocapelle (
talk) 09:50, 25 June 2016 (UTC)reply
That seems like a good idea, unless someone comes up with the ultimate renaming proposal that would implicitly suggest a clearer inclusion criterion. Notified the creator. --
PanchoS (
talk) 10:16, 25 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Support upmerge -- Most of these are about specific people, without being biographies. This gives a certain unity to the present category, but it is something of a dog's breakfast. The target is an ill-populated container. Nevertheless, after merger, we may need to purge.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 10:13, 27 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Support upmerge as category creator. This is essentially a renaming of the category started 8 years ago, and more concise names are fine by me. I had not realized "Aspects" was a profanity at CfD lately, go figure - but I do stand by the usefulness of this type of categorization in tracking/rationalizing these types of sub-biographical articles.--
Pharos (
talk) 11:06, 29 June 2016 (UTC)reply
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Category:Disney Channel Original Movie films
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The result of the discussion was:keep.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 07:04, 24 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: "Disney Channel Original Movie films" sounds awkward and redundant as it already has "Movie" in its name.
nyuszika7h (
talk) 16:05, 24 June 2016 (UTC)reply
if you have a look, we commonly have Fooian Films films for categories like this, which is even more redundant. So I'm afraid this one has zero chance of passing, based on long-standing precedent that we do use the full name of a production studio, no matter how odd it may sound, followed by a lowercase "films." OpposeShawn in Montreal (
talk) 22:13, 24 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Oppose Per
List of Disney Channel original films, the brand name "Disney Channel Original Movies" is used by the
Disney Channel for its television films since 1997. "Movies" here is part of the name, it does not define the topic of the category. The category covers films and should mention films. We generally do not use the term "movie" in articles or categories, instead using the term
film.
Dimadick (
talk) 23:33, 24 June 2016 (UTC)reply
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Category:Aspects of music
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Nominator's rationale: Despite what's claimed on the category page,
Elements of music is the main article. A rename would be the least disruptive way to address this particular "aspects of..." category.
Shawn in Montreal (
talk) 13:26, 24 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Rename. The article was moved without relisting as an RM or waiting for someone to close and find a proper consensus, but seems to be unopposed, see
Talk:Elements_of_music#Requested_move. I have just repaired the page history as the move was done by cut-and-paste. –
FayenaticLondon 15:21, 24 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Sorry, I should have noted and absorbed all that as part of my
WP:BEFORE work. My bad. Well, the Cfd still seems to make sense, even in light of the more complicated backstory. Thanks for the head's up!
Shawn in Montreal (
talk) 17:07, 24 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Support -- especially now the main article is now a redirect to the suggested target. That name much better describes the content.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 10:15, 27 June 2016 (UTC)reply
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Category:Characters of European folklore
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Nominator's rationale: There isn't even consistency in how Stefanomione created these folklore character cats because having created the "folkloristics characters" one below, he also created Characters of European folklore. However, in this one he was influenced -- for the better -- by two preexisting subcats that I also may as well nominate. Here the problem simply seems to be that Fooian characters seems to be the preferred structure in
Category:Fictional characters by medium, the parent to all this.
Shawn in Montreal (
talk) 11:50, 24 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Rename per nom For consistency reasons. Note however that the term
folktale covers oral tradition tales, written fables, fairy tales, folklore, and
old wives' tales. Some of the "characters" in
Category:Characters of Lithuanian folk tales are not fairy tale characters, they are pagan deities. I note for example that the category includes
Perkūnas, the Baltic
thunder god. He may be of particularly ancient origin, as he is a version of the Indo-European deity
Perkwunos.
Dimadick (
talk) 23:54, 24 June 2016 (UTC)reply
REname per nom -- If we were to keep the present order it should be "Characters in ...".
Peterkingiron (
talk) 10:17, 27 June 2016 (UTC)reply
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Category:Folkloristic characters
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Nominator's rationale: Another ham-fisted misuse of "folkloristic" -- field of study of folklore -- by Stefanomione that just makes no sense. If kept as a sibling in
Category:Fictional characters by medium, this would seem to be the model.
Shawn in Montreal (
talk) 11:45, 24 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Support Folkloristic is the wrong adjective for in folklore. --
Mark viking (
talk) 21:04, 24 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Rename per nom. Folklore is the topic here, not folkloristics.
Dimadick (
talk) 23:56, 24 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Rename per nom. However the mere fact that we're talking about a rename rather than deletion qualifies Stefanomione's effort as valuable, in spite of his tendency to academicize concepts that are better expressed in Common sense terms. --
PanchoS (
talk) 10:27, 25 June 2016 (UTC)reply
@
PanchoS: the problem with
Stefanomione was not that all of his category creations lacked value. It was that he seemed unable to learn which of his creations were fine, which were dross, and which needed amendment. This is one of the many variants of third set ... in this case a good idea in poor terminology. --
BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (
contribs) 16:33, 25 June 2016 (UTC)reply
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Category:Sheriffs of Chenango County, New York
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Nominator's rationale: Per
WP:SMALLCAT. Category has just two entries and is unlikely to increase. Local Sheriffs are usually not notable. The two people in this category are notable for other things.
Upmerge per nom -- Three people is not really enough to warrant a category. Sheriffs (like other local politicians) are inherently NN, unless notable for other reasons. If Cherango could boast 6-8 notable sheriffs, I might have supported retention, but will it?
Peterkingiron (
talk) 10:21, 27 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Upmerge per nom and to people from this county cat. We do not need a category for three articles.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 19:59, 29 June 2016 (UTC)reply
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Category:Translatewiki.net
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The result of the discussion was:upmerge to all parents.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 05:51, 2 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: There is only one page in the category. The category will probably not expand.
Gulumeemee (
talk) 08:18, 24 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Merge to all parents, as the member article is only in one other category. –
FayenaticLondon 15:43, 24 June 2016 (UTC)reply
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Category:Economic problem stubs
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Nominator's rationale:upmerge per
WP:SMALLCAT, for stub categories we usually have a minimum size of 60.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 06:34, 24 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Alt merge to
Category:Economic theory stubs, another quite small stub category, which should be a better fit. Don't know if an upmerge to
Category:Economic problems is necessary or too unspecific. I might check the articles the next days, but if someone else does, even better. --
PanchoS (
talk) 02:17, 25 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Quite a few articles in here are definitely not about theory.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 08:27, 25 June 2016 (UTC)reply
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Category:Organizational constructs
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Category:Aspects of organizations
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Support per nom. Good lord, what a terrible notion for a category branch. I see a couple of other categories with "aspects of... " that may be cleaned up, too.
Shawn in Montreal (
talk) 13:23, 24 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Support Too vague to be useful. --
Mark viking (
talk) 22:52, 24 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Support. No idea what the category initially contained, but based on the current content, I can't see a practical value in having this category. --
PanchoS (
talk) 08:58, 25 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Merge per nom -- This is a minute category. Even if the aspirations of the headnote could be met, it will still do no harm for the articles to sit within the target.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 10:26, 27 June 2016 (UTC)reply
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Category:Sia Partners
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Delete per nom and the topic is obscure.
Brandmeistertalk 18:44, 27 June 2016 (UTC)reply
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Category:Expatriate primaries
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The result of the discussion was: no consensus to delete, but it will be renamed as proposed since there isn't any appetite for keeping the category as is. --
Tavix(
talk) 19:20, 31 August 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete far too small a category to justify having it.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 05:05, 27 August 2016 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Honorary United States Marines
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Bugs Bunny played a Marine in the movies,
Jim Nabors played one on TV,
Felix de Weldon was a sculptor who designed a Marine memorial, and Cody Green was a child dying of leukaemia who wanted to grow up to be a Marine. (I'm fine with the rabbit, the sculptor and the kid but why the Marines would ever celebrate the idiotic
Gomer Pyle character is beyond me.) None of the
Honorary Marines in this category ever enlisted in the U.S. Marine Corps, they just have some vague association.
Per the article, there is not one agreed upon list of who should be considered an Honorary Marine. The term often seems like more of an informal term of endearment than a formal status:
Bob Hope is in this category because he was half jokingly declared an honorary brigadier general while he was being introduced for a
USO show for the troops. If we decide to delete this category, there is no need to listify because the winners are already listed
here. -
RevelationDirect (
talk) 00:00, 24 June 2016 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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