Category:Occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:Delete.
SQLQuery me! 23:13, 4 March 2016 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: These articles may all be linked, but the category is not necessary. Linking between articles should be sufficient. Besides, none of the entries in this category are applicable to the category's parents. (In other words, articles apart from the parent article would not be categorized under "2016 crimes in the United States", "2016 in Oregon", "2016 protests", and "Protests in Oregon".) --
Another Believer(
Talk) 21:42, 19 January 2016 (UTC)reply
Keep. There are 8 articles in the category, and it helps users navigate between said articles without having to search through mountainous amonts of text in order to find.
MB298 (
talk) 21:46, 19 January 2016 (UTC)reply
It looks like since you posted this, there are now 7, however one of those is a redirect to the main Occupation article, so it's effectively 6 articles.
Leitmotiv (
talk) 17:22, 24 February 2016 (UTC)reply
Then perhaps a navbox is appropriate, or the flow of the article needs to be improved so that readers can easily navigate to connected articles. But this category is not being used properly as a subcategory (the parent categories would not likely be added to the articles within the category being discussed). ---
Another Believer(
Talk) 23:55, 19 January 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete for Now There are only 2 articles that currently belong in this category (
1,
2). The rest of the current articles are
WP:OCASSOC or
WP:PERFCAT of people who are not defined by this event, at least not yet. Depending on how this plays out, there might be enough articles for a category in the future so no objection to recreating if we can get up to 5 or so non-biography articles.
RevelationDirect (
talk) 00:02, 20 January 2016 (UTC)reply
NEW INFORMATION seeing as how a Timeline article has been created and the topic is growing steadily, I repeat my point that the nomination is too early per
WP:RAPID and should be set aside for now.
Prostetnic Vogon Jeltz (
talk) 13:45, 20 January 2016 (UTC)reply
Screw it, I don't care. I quit dealing with these articles.
Prostetnic Vogon Jeltz (
talk) 16:17, 21 January 2016 (UTC)reply
Whether we keep for now or delete for now, any decision here shouldn't prevent re-evaluation of the category after the standoff ends.
RevelationDirect (
talk) 01:13, 21 January 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete - Considering all the talk and effort that's going on about merging and/or deleting many of the articles in that category, this would leave said category with only maybe one or two categories in its roster, maybe even none. I created the category because I thought categorization would help better organize things related to the subject, but I agree that a navbox can work too.
Parsley Man (
talk) 01:29, 20 January 2016 (UTC)reply
No opinion Just so you know, since I'm a regular at the main article
NewsAndEventsGuy (
talk) 06:10, 20 January 2016 (UTC)reply
Upmerge to parent category per
WP:SMALLCAT or else purge, as there are only two articles that belong in this category.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 19:32, 20 January 2016 (UTC)reply
Upmerge -- This is a controversy of which I had not heard. It appears to have generated a lot of WP content, but I doubt we need much of it NOTNEWS.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 18:16, 24 January 2016 (UTC)reply
Upmerge This incident is minor, relatively speaking. These right-wingers wanted to martyr themselves like what happened in the
Waco siege. There is no category for the Waco siege. This category is
WP:RECENTISM. –
Muboshgu (
talk) 20:52, 27 January 2016 (UTC)reply
Keep - seems useful to have separate (sub)categories, if only to keep the articles about the refuge somewhat apart from the story of its intended abuse.
2015.ww (
talk) 21:50, 29 January 2016 (UTC)reply
Keep - seems relevant. There are other categories with similar numbers of articles.
Titanium Dragon (
talk) 21:05, 31 January 2016 (UTC)reply
@
Cunard: I think you mean: do not upmerge the people of this category. Agree, but then I'd still upmerge the two articles that
User:RevelationDirect mentioned on 20 January.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 22:52, 4 March 2016 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Massacres in People's Republic of China
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Actually, you bring up a good point. Maybe, it could be deleted. I mean geographically, it's all the same China (minus land losses).
Jackninja5 (
talk) 05:27, 20 January 2016 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Roman Thessaly
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The result of the discussion was:merge. –
FayenaticLondon 23:11, 1 February 2016 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Saints of Late Roman Thessalonica
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The result of the discussion was:merge.
MER-C 13:03, 1 February 2016 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
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Category:Syrian involvement in the Syrian Civil War
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale: Is there a real need for Syria's involvement in the SYRIAN Civil War to have its own category? I mean it is taking place in Syria so practically everything involves Syria during the war.
Jackninja5 (
talk) 14:27, 19 January 2016 (UTC)reply
Edit - The Syrian Air Force involvement is also on for the same reason and all articles and the one subcategory in that category can just as easily be added to
Category:Syrian Air Force.
Jackninja5 (
talk) 16:58, 19 January 2016 (UTC)reply
Oppose. It is a proxy war (= a war on Syrian territory, with foreign belligerent parties/countries). Have a look at
Category:Foreign involvement in the Syrian Civil War : in many military operations, the Syrian government isn't involved at all . As a matter of fact, last year (2015), the 'proxy'-nature of the war extended, and Syrian involvement became rather exceptional.
Stefanomione (
talk) 18:28, 19 January 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete or Rename - this is nonsense. If one is to talk about Assad's involvement, then we may have "Ba'athist government involvement in the Syrian civil war" (Syrian involvement doesn't actually say whether it is government or opposition).
GreyShark (
dibra) 21:36, 1 February 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete Syrian does not equal Syrian government, it equals the actions of nationals of Syria. The Ba'athist Government cat might work, but this will not.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 02:05, 14 February 2016 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Minecraft clones
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:no consensus.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 13:09, 5 February 2016 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: "Minecraft clones" does not accurately describe what the articles in this category are.
Ace of Spades (video game), for example, is not a clone of Minecraft. Anarchyte 10:36, 19 January 2016 (UTC)reply
Rename - Calling them clones pretty much just says that they were made just as clones of Minecraft and for no other reason. That clearly isn't true.
Jackninja5 (
talk) 14:27, 19 January 2016 (UTC)reply
Oppose This is a subcategory of
Category:Video game clones, which seems well defined. If you think some entries were more than clones, either point out their distinctions or remove the categories.
Dimadick (
talk) 15:56, 19 January 2016 (UTC)reply
Upmerge to
Category:Open world video games. I have no objection to the concept of "clones" being categorized but grouping individual games seems subjective and my overstate how derivative they are when a groundbreaking game may have just opened up a new genre.
Total Miner describes itself as "a block-building sandbox-style game similar to Minecraft" which sounds more neutral and encyclopedic than this category. (I feel the same way about the sister categories like
Category:Pac-Man clones and
Category:Maze games.)
RevelationDirect (
talk) 09:34, 20 January 2016 (UTC)reply
Oppose per reliable sources, such as
WP:VG/RS. "Minecraft clone" is indeed the common usage of the term. Regardless if accurate and that it's diminutive to some of the games in question, we ought to follow the sources. —
HELLKNOWZ ▎
TALK 12:10, 20 January 2016 (UTC)reply
@
Hellknowz: Breaking down all the articles in this category,
Ace of Spades (video game) and Terraria are in no way Minecraft clones. Other articles like CraftWorld and FortressCraft are noted in the article to be influenced by Minecraft but are not "clones". Cube Life: Island Survival looks very
unnotable and the sentence saying it's a "Minecraft clone" isn't referenced. As much as
they might look like Minecraft, they're
Voxel-based video games and will, for that reason, look "blocky". I'm not saying delete the category, I'm saying to rename it to something that covers what the articles really are. Calling them clones is slightly bias. Anarchyte 12:24, 20 January 2016 (UTC)reply
I agree with you that it is biased, often rude, and sometimes plain wrong. In fact, it is likely some of those aren't reliably sourced to be called so. But whether we think they are clones or not is irrelevant when reliable independent sources have called them such. They may be real-time strategies in reality, but as far as
verifiability is concerned, they have been described as clones. I only just re-added this to
Terraria#Reception, and you can check the number of
WP:VG/RS references that call it such. I have played the game to death, and it's silly to call it "MC clone", but there we are. Just like everything was "Doom clones" back in the day. We can make a note at the top of the category and the readers can check the articles for details for each game. —
HELLKNOWZ ▎
TALK 12:31, 20 January 2016 (UTC)reply
If we were categorizing by such criteria, then per
WP:BALANCE, both. We wouldn't select just one simply because they're contradictory. Article has to fairly explain all such viewpoints in prose per
WP:CATDEF anyway. Since we're describing reviewer interpretation, they are bound to occasionally conflict. —
HELLKNOWZ ▎
TALK 16:41, 21 January 2016 (UTC)reply
Comment -- Whether something is or is not similar is a POV issue, which does not make the basis for a category.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 18:22, 24 January 2016 (UTC)reply
Comment The current category is already a grouping of games that are similar to Minecraft, the proposed rename takes that same inclusion criteria and makes it not be derogatory.
RevelationDirect (
talk) 03:19, 25 January 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete This is either derogatory or inprecise, so we are best off just getting rid of it.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 18:09, 30 January 2016 (UTC)reply
Oppose In video game terms, while the word "clone" does have negative connotations, it's also become a term of art, particularly as the terms "Doom clone" (now
First-person shooters) and
GTA clone are accepted terms. Clones, in these specific cases, are not meant to meant they outright cloned the game, but that the gameplay is very similar or clearly inspired and founded in Minecraft and may have additional aspects beyond that. Minecraft's play style is unique enough that "open world" or "sandbox" is insufficient to describe that approach alone. --
MASEM (
t) 20:59, 2 February 2016 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:Delete.
SQLQuery me! 23:13, 4 March 2016 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: These articles may all be linked, but the category is not necessary. Linking between articles should be sufficient. Besides, none of the entries in this category are applicable to the category's parents. (In other words, articles apart from the parent article would not be categorized under "2016 crimes in the United States", "2016 in Oregon", "2016 protests", and "Protests in Oregon".) --
Another Believer(
Talk) 21:42, 19 January 2016 (UTC)reply
Keep. There are 8 articles in the category, and it helps users navigate between said articles without having to search through mountainous amonts of text in order to find.
MB298 (
talk) 21:46, 19 January 2016 (UTC)reply
It looks like since you posted this, there are now 7, however one of those is a redirect to the main Occupation article, so it's effectively 6 articles.
Leitmotiv (
talk) 17:22, 24 February 2016 (UTC)reply
Then perhaps a navbox is appropriate, or the flow of the article needs to be improved so that readers can easily navigate to connected articles. But this category is not being used properly as a subcategory (the parent categories would not likely be added to the articles within the category being discussed). ---
Another Believer(
Talk) 23:55, 19 January 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete for Now There are only 2 articles that currently belong in this category (
1,
2). The rest of the current articles are
WP:OCASSOC or
WP:PERFCAT of people who are not defined by this event, at least not yet. Depending on how this plays out, there might be enough articles for a category in the future so no objection to recreating if we can get up to 5 or so non-biography articles.
RevelationDirect (
talk) 00:02, 20 January 2016 (UTC)reply
NEW INFORMATION seeing as how a Timeline article has been created and the topic is growing steadily, I repeat my point that the nomination is too early per
WP:RAPID and should be set aside for now.
Prostetnic Vogon Jeltz (
talk) 13:45, 20 January 2016 (UTC)reply
Screw it, I don't care. I quit dealing with these articles.
Prostetnic Vogon Jeltz (
talk) 16:17, 21 January 2016 (UTC)reply
Whether we keep for now or delete for now, any decision here shouldn't prevent re-evaluation of the category after the standoff ends.
RevelationDirect (
talk) 01:13, 21 January 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete - Considering all the talk and effort that's going on about merging and/or deleting many of the articles in that category, this would leave said category with only maybe one or two categories in its roster, maybe even none. I created the category because I thought categorization would help better organize things related to the subject, but I agree that a navbox can work too.
Parsley Man (
talk) 01:29, 20 January 2016 (UTC)reply
No opinion Just so you know, since I'm a regular at the main article
NewsAndEventsGuy (
talk) 06:10, 20 January 2016 (UTC)reply
Upmerge to parent category per
WP:SMALLCAT or else purge, as there are only two articles that belong in this category.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 19:32, 20 January 2016 (UTC)reply
Upmerge -- This is a controversy of which I had not heard. It appears to have generated a lot of WP content, but I doubt we need much of it NOTNEWS.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 18:16, 24 January 2016 (UTC)reply
Upmerge This incident is minor, relatively speaking. These right-wingers wanted to martyr themselves like what happened in the
Waco siege. There is no category for the Waco siege. This category is
WP:RECENTISM. –
Muboshgu (
talk) 20:52, 27 January 2016 (UTC)reply
Keep - seems useful to have separate (sub)categories, if only to keep the articles about the refuge somewhat apart from the story of its intended abuse.
2015.ww (
talk) 21:50, 29 January 2016 (UTC)reply
Keep - seems relevant. There are other categories with similar numbers of articles.
Titanium Dragon (
talk) 21:05, 31 January 2016 (UTC)reply
@
Cunard: I think you mean: do not upmerge the people of this category. Agree, but then I'd still upmerge the two articles that
User:RevelationDirect mentioned on 20 January.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 22:52, 4 March 2016 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Massacres in People's Republic of China
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Actually, you bring up a good point. Maybe, it could be deleted. I mean geographically, it's all the same China (minus land losses).
Jackninja5 (
talk) 05:27, 20 January 2016 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Roman Thessaly
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:merge. –
FayenaticLondon 23:11, 1 February 2016 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Saints of Late Roman Thessalonica
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:merge.
MER-C 13:03, 1 February 2016 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Syrian involvement in the Syrian Civil War
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale: Is there a real need for Syria's involvement in the SYRIAN Civil War to have its own category? I mean it is taking place in Syria so practically everything involves Syria during the war.
Jackninja5 (
talk) 14:27, 19 January 2016 (UTC)reply
Edit - The Syrian Air Force involvement is also on for the same reason and all articles and the one subcategory in that category can just as easily be added to
Category:Syrian Air Force.
Jackninja5 (
talk) 16:58, 19 January 2016 (UTC)reply
Oppose. It is a proxy war (= a war on Syrian territory, with foreign belligerent parties/countries). Have a look at
Category:Foreign involvement in the Syrian Civil War : in many military operations, the Syrian government isn't involved at all . As a matter of fact, last year (2015), the 'proxy'-nature of the war extended, and Syrian involvement became rather exceptional.
Stefanomione (
talk) 18:28, 19 January 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete or Rename - this is nonsense. If one is to talk about Assad's involvement, then we may have "Ba'athist government involvement in the Syrian civil war" (Syrian involvement doesn't actually say whether it is government or opposition).
GreyShark (
dibra) 21:36, 1 February 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete Syrian does not equal Syrian government, it equals the actions of nationals of Syria. The Ba'athist Government cat might work, but this will not.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 02:05, 14 February 2016 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Minecraft clones
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:no consensus.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 13:09, 5 February 2016 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: "Minecraft clones" does not accurately describe what the articles in this category are.
Ace of Spades (video game), for example, is not a clone of Minecraft. Anarchyte 10:36, 19 January 2016 (UTC)reply
Rename - Calling them clones pretty much just says that they were made just as clones of Minecraft and for no other reason. That clearly isn't true.
Jackninja5 (
talk) 14:27, 19 January 2016 (UTC)reply
Oppose This is a subcategory of
Category:Video game clones, which seems well defined. If you think some entries were more than clones, either point out their distinctions or remove the categories.
Dimadick (
talk) 15:56, 19 January 2016 (UTC)reply
Upmerge to
Category:Open world video games. I have no objection to the concept of "clones" being categorized but grouping individual games seems subjective and my overstate how derivative they are when a groundbreaking game may have just opened up a new genre.
Total Miner describes itself as "a block-building sandbox-style game similar to Minecraft" which sounds more neutral and encyclopedic than this category. (I feel the same way about the sister categories like
Category:Pac-Man clones and
Category:Maze games.)
RevelationDirect (
talk) 09:34, 20 January 2016 (UTC)reply
Oppose per reliable sources, such as
WP:VG/RS. "Minecraft clone" is indeed the common usage of the term. Regardless if accurate and that it's diminutive to some of the games in question, we ought to follow the sources. —
HELLKNOWZ ▎
TALK 12:10, 20 January 2016 (UTC)reply
@
Hellknowz: Breaking down all the articles in this category,
Ace of Spades (video game) and Terraria are in no way Minecraft clones. Other articles like CraftWorld and FortressCraft are noted in the article to be influenced by Minecraft but are not "clones". Cube Life: Island Survival looks very
unnotable and the sentence saying it's a "Minecraft clone" isn't referenced. As much as
they might look like Minecraft, they're
Voxel-based video games and will, for that reason, look "blocky". I'm not saying delete the category, I'm saying to rename it to something that covers what the articles really are. Calling them clones is slightly bias. Anarchyte 12:24, 20 January 2016 (UTC)reply
I agree with you that it is biased, often rude, and sometimes plain wrong. In fact, it is likely some of those aren't reliably sourced to be called so. But whether we think they are clones or not is irrelevant when reliable independent sources have called them such. They may be real-time strategies in reality, but as far as
verifiability is concerned, they have been described as clones. I only just re-added this to
Terraria#Reception, and you can check the number of
WP:VG/RS references that call it such. I have played the game to death, and it's silly to call it "MC clone", but there we are. Just like everything was "Doom clones" back in the day. We can make a note at the top of the category and the readers can check the articles for details for each game. —
HELLKNOWZ ▎
TALK 12:31, 20 January 2016 (UTC)reply
If we were categorizing by such criteria, then per
WP:BALANCE, both. We wouldn't select just one simply because they're contradictory. Article has to fairly explain all such viewpoints in prose per
WP:CATDEF anyway. Since we're describing reviewer interpretation, they are bound to occasionally conflict. —
HELLKNOWZ ▎
TALK 16:41, 21 January 2016 (UTC)reply
Comment -- Whether something is or is not similar is a POV issue, which does not make the basis for a category.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 18:22, 24 January 2016 (UTC)reply
Comment The current category is already a grouping of games that are similar to Minecraft, the proposed rename takes that same inclusion criteria and makes it not be derogatory.
RevelationDirect (
talk) 03:19, 25 January 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete This is either derogatory or inprecise, so we are best off just getting rid of it.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 18:09, 30 January 2016 (UTC)reply
Oppose In video game terms, while the word "clone" does have negative connotations, it's also become a term of art, particularly as the terms "Doom clone" (now
First-person shooters) and
GTA clone are accepted terms. Clones, in these specific cases, are not meant to meant they outright cloned the game, but that the gameplay is very similar or clearly inspired and founded in Minecraft and may have additional aspects beyond that. Minecraft's play style is unique enough that "open world" or "sandbox" is insufficient to describe that approach alone. --
MASEM (
t) 20:59, 2 February 2016 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.