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Nominator's rationale:Rename. Opposed speedy nomination.
PESA is ambiguous. The main article is at
PESA SA. Since the opposition was stated (copied below), no move has been made to propose moving the article. Don't know what else to say.
Good Ol’factory(talk)21:44, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Why? The main article is
PESA, and titling guidelines say to avoid using SA, Ltd. Inc. etc in titles. Oppose - I'm also sure this is the primary use for the name PESA, and that the other things named in
PESA are unlikely to ever have categories..
Oranjblud (
talk)
21:51, 12 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Sorry my mistake - corrected above - however this think the rename is wrong - and am suggesting that primary use is of
PESA is
PESA SA (most common) - ie 'bad title' for main article.
Oranjblud (
talk)
21:57, 12 March 2012 (UTC)reply
If you wanted to immediately start a requested move using
WP:RM for the article, I would be willing to suspend this nomination. But as long as the article remains where it is, I think the category should match. I'm not sure it's a clear-cut issue—we also have a river called
Pesa, so it gets complicated.
Good Ol’factory(talk)21:59, 12 March 2012 (UTC)reply
As I noted in the discussion - my thoughts are that
PESA SA is in fact the primary topic of
PESA and the disambiguation page should be renamed accordingly, and the relavent page renames made - as such
Category:PESA would remain the correct title.
Oranjblud (
talk) 01:37, 16 March 2012 (UTC) It's not clear if I should make a competing page move request, or what..??
Oranjblud (
talk)
01:39, 16 March 2012 (UTC)reply
I mentioned in the speedy discussion above that if you want to immediately start a requested move using
WP:RM for the article, I will be willing to suspend this nomination until the close of that discussion.
Good Ol’factory(talk)01:54, 16 March 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:Iranian women biologists
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Nominator's rationale: Unnecessary triple intersection. I don't think we should be categorizing scientists by all combinations of field, gender, and nationality.
LeSnail (
talk)
20:44, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Triple upmerge as previously suggested. I don't recall exactly, but I think I created this category way back in the day as a result of a discussion with a Persian editor regarding gender differences. Previous commenter makes a solid argument all the way around.
68.62.189.3 (
talk)
12:50, 19 March 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:Commenting available on articles online
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Nominator's rationale:Delete. Not part of any discernable scheme. Only parent category is
Category:Newspapers. I can see it being useful somehow, even expanded to subordinate hierarchies, but I don't think the initiative should be done like this.
meco (
talk)
20:29, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Comment This is a general comment about the process of removing categories that some of us try to build:
Why is there no mechanism to draw the attention of others to these discussions such as the one that exists on Articles for Deletion discussions?
The only arguments I have seen (I only come here to participate in discussions about categories that I started myself) is
not defining which is a term that has been coined by a small Group of "category insiders", I think?
Categories at Wikipedia are in such a mess, attacking the few that try to help fix the problem will ensure they stay a mess.
Why not concentrate instead on increasing the number of Wikipedia readers who use categories?
Ottawahitech (
talk)
There are various mechanisms in place, both manual and automated. For instance the notification templates such as {{cfd-notify}} and other that can be placed on related article talk pages or on WikiProject talk pages. If the category is added to a WikiProject on its talk page that project will be automatically notified on its Alerts page.
The "not defining" argument is problematic, I believe. There is so much that is readily being categorized that clearly isn't defining, such as year of birth...
Maintaining and developing the categories on Wikipedia is a huge and ongoing endeavor. There are a number of Wikipedia namespace pages that discuss this and where input is being welcomed. __
meco (
talk)
16:14, 21 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Delete This does not categorize based on a defining characteristic of these newspapers. (Also the name is very strange.)
LeSnail (
talk)
20:55, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Delete - It took me a minute to understand what was being categorized: newspapers with online versions that allow readers to comment on articles. This is primarily a technical feature of websites and, as noted above,
not defining for any newspaper. Information of this type may be suitable in an article about the topic of
Online commenting but a directory of websites which allow it is
not suitable for inclusion. -- Black Falcon(
talk)16:59, 16 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Comment I only wish it was common... Online commenting on news stories is only available on some publications, and only in developed countries, and now exceedingly, only through companies
such as Facebook. Yes it is not defining because it is so new, there is precious little written about it (I hope someone can prove me wrong on this), and because things move so fast companies are taking advantage of the chaos and gaining a monopoly.
Ottawahitech (
talk)
14:43, 21 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Ottawa, My experience is based on American and British newspapers which almost universally have this feature so maybe there is a geographic bias in my experience. Nontheless, just the publications I read from those 2 countries would overflow a category.
RevelationDirect (
talk)
03:48, 22 March 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:Sports in the Las Vegas Valley
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Nominator's rationale:Rename. Rename to match the main article. This wound up at this title as the result of a problematic move of the parent category from metropolitan area to valley. This move changed the scope of this entire series of categories from about 8,000 sq mi or so to 600 sq mi. The move was based on a redirect from the metro area to the the valley article that is there only because a manual cleanup of around 4,000 links is still needed, not because in the long run that the redirect is correct. Most of the links should go to the valley, but a good number are really for the metro area. So it is a manual review and not a bot task.
Vegaswikian (
talk)
19:23, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:Rock albums by British−American artists
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Oppose. The UK's state media, the BBC produced the documentary "From New York to Wimbourne" discussing the American sojourn of Fripp, and in particular the influence of the happenings in New York and West Virginia. Bruford left in the 1990s, with comments about "Americans" in his autobiography. All the other new band-members of King Crimson are Americans. (The "angel of categorical death" originally placed King Crimson in the category
Category:Rock albums by British artists, reflecting its Wessex origins.) There are obviously other British–American bands, e.g.
The Monkeys or the Akron–London band
The Pretenders. In contrast, a British-American artist would be an American artist with British parents, or a British-raised artist who lives in and identifies with America (e.g. by becoming a U.S. citizen), etc. Kiefer.
Wolfowitz20:47, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
On the other hand, since rock music is an American art form, it is redundant to mention "American", one could argue. Perhaps then all rock music should be put in the category "American music"? ;) Kiefer.
Wolfowitz20:31, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Response First off, I think that it's fair to say that Brits are important in the formation of rock--it is ultimately American, but they can't claim a monopoly on it. Furthermore, as pointed out below, the simple solution is to place the artist's album category in both
Category:Rock albums by Yian artistsandCategory:Rock albums by Zian artists--this will preserve the structure we already have. Finally, I don't understand why you inserted both The Pretenders' individual albums and the artists' album category here--what is the purpose of that...? —
Justin (koavf)❤
T☮
C☺
M☯
21:23, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Delete This awkward category only serves to isolate albums in a category that readers won't even realize exists. It also fails to serve a need. While one can argue that there may be a few points in common between albums recorded by British artists, I just can't see how to make the argument that there's something distinct about albums recorded by bands whose membership was not 100% British. Besides, where would one set the bar? Should we have separate categories for albums by British bands who have a drummer born in Ireland or Denmark? Some bands are generally considered binational and the obvious solution is to simply categorize those in both national categories.
Pichpich (
talk)
21:04, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
I would suggest deleting American rock and British rock as being too large and non-informative. Categories of other nations' rockers may be of interest. Kiefer.
Wolfowitz12:25, 16 March 2012 (UTC)reply
At the category level, a couple of good approximations are much preferable to breaking down everything into tiny categories that nobody knows about. From a purely practical standpoint, the odds of finding
Category:King Crimson albums are much better with the dual categorization.
Pichpich (
talk)
22:56, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Delete. I understand the intent, but I agree with Pichpich that it's difficult to argue that there is anything distinct about albums recorded by bands who were not 100% British. I agree it's easily solved by just categorizing them in both nationality trees. Categorization does not always work best if one tries to make it precision perfect; sometimes it provides a "rough guide" to organization, with the articles sorting out the messy details.
Good Ol’factory(talk)21:56, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Delete we have no article
British-American artists, so a cat is premature and ambiguous. it could mean that the "artists" are an amalgam of some people from each side of the pond (Pretenders, Fleetwood Mac, etc. come to mind), but there is no cat for them as a bunch, why for their music? it could mean an artist (or artists), since we use pluralized categories to categorize individuals (otherwise the category
Category:Presidents of the United States would only have
Grover Cleveland as no other article in the category was a multiple "presidents"), with British American ancestry (
Mick Fleetwood being an obvious example). But again, we don't seem to have that category either. So alas, there seems to be no logical undepinnings for this "genre" or "triple intersection".
Carlossuarez46 (
talk)
22:05, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Delete - put it in both 'British' and 'American' (or delete the lot of them except for individual artists - a band doesn't have a nationality).
Oculi (
talk)
23:03, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
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Nominator's rationale:Listify and delete, following
CFD March 1 (Israeli electricians). None of these people achieved notability as electricians. In some cases the career was a contributing factor e.g. becoming a union activist or (less happily) an amputee, but the reason for notability was something else in every case, and they are categorised accordingly. I have already created the page
List of electricians to provide a replacement way to navigate notable people who have shared this occupation.
Comment if you repurpose cat:electricians, then shouldn't be singularlized, since it is no longer about electricans, but about the occupation of electrician? (several other categories exist as singular and plural, with plural categorizing examples, and singular categorizing articles about it)
70.24.251.224 (
talk)
04:15, 17 March 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:Empty categories
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Nominator's rationale:Delete. This has been nominated before on
9 January 2011 and
19 February 2011, both times resulting in Keep. A year later, I still find it a completely useless and redundant. First, NO empty categories (in or out of process) end up in here unless the category that was emptied uses either the template {{albums category}} or {{album label category}} (which numbers less than 2000 possible categories). Second, editors who patrol empty categories do so by going to
Wikipedia:Database reports/Empty categories not this category. Basically, this has become a parent to one and only other category:
Category:Empty categories awaiting deletion. Because of the noted lag, a category may not show up in here for days, by which time it has already been seen and nominated for {{db-c1}} by patrollers of the database report page. The point is that the supposed purpose of this category is already being served. --StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me17:42, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Running this stuff of database reports is s sticking plaster, until category lag problems are sorted out. Also the fact that you don't find something useful is not a compelling deletion argument. RichFarmbrough,
17:57, 15 March 2012 (UTC).reply
I'm not sure what "is s sticking plaster" means or what category lag problems you're referring to. Bugzilla links are always helpful and welcome.
The fact that someone finds something to not be useful (or to be useless) is a compelling deletion argument to me. The onus is on those who wish to see the category stay around, surely. Categories exist to serve users. If this particular category isn't serving any users, I see no reason to keep it around. --
MZMcBride (
talk)
22:07, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Delete: I don't see any real valid use for this category. Empty categories should be marked for deletion or populated, not categorized in this category. There may be a use-case for a "Category:Intentionally empty categories" or something of that nature, but that's a different matter for a different forum. I'm certainly willing to revisit my vote in light of reasonable arguments that this category is needed, but as of now, I don't see any need to keep it around. --
MZMcBride (
talk)
22:07, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Delete The only purpose for this category would be to identify them for deletion. Categorising it as empty is pointless. I am not sure what the purpose of an intentionally empty category would be, except briefly between creation and population. Anyway where a new category is needed, a simple way to create it is to categorise an article to it and then create it using the resultant redlink.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
14:27, 16 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Delete - It may have been useful at one time but it is not anymore. This category is, compared to the database report, a less useful maintenance tool since it provides an incomplete directory of empty categories. Thus, I can conceive of no purpose for this category that is not already served by
Category:Empty categories awaiting deletion. -- Black Falcon(
talk)16:26, 16 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Hmmmm, though ideally MediaWiki would auto-populate this category when a category goes empty... eliminate the need for a database report (which was really just a replacement for the horribly inefficient
Special:UnusedCategories). It's turtles all the way down.... --
MZMcBride (
talk)
17:23, 17 March 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:House of Vojislavljević
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Category:English idioms with chinese equivalent
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Nominator's rationale:Delete. I would say most idioms in any one language have some equivalent idiom in most other languages, and setting up a scheme of language-to-language correspondences would result in massive overcategorization. This category is a singleton; after all, WP is not a phrasebook. -
choster (
talk)
16:29, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:Women's field hockey at the 2008 Summer Olympics
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Nominator's rationale: Upmerge. No reason for women's field hockey to have special categories, especially considering the number of articles in the categories.
HandsomeFella (
talk)
15:09, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Comment: I acknowledge what you're saying, but the general category is still a little weird to me. I'm not saying that there is no need to categorize women's field hockey tournaments. But the right way to go about it IMO is to place the women's Olympic tournament articles (Field hockey at the **** Summer Olympics – Women's tournament) directly in such a category (or categories). (And likewise for the men's tournaments.) There isn't even a main article for the topic. Otherwise we would have to create categories for men's Olympics tournaments, because why are the women's Olympic field hockey tournaments a subset of Olympic field hockey tournaments, while the men's are not?
HandsomeFella (
talk)
10:04, 16 March 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:Romanian historical regions
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Nominator's rationale:Delete. I am proposing this for deletion because it is copy of existing category named
Historical regions in Romania. Furthermore, term "Romanian" could have double meaning and could be related not only to Romania, but also to ethnic Romanians and the category have very clear nationalistic implication, i.e. it imply that these regions are "belonging to ethnic Romanians", which is very controversial due to the fact that these regions are also located in the countries that neighboring Romania and that they are largely populated by non-Romanian populations. I do not see any valid logical or scientific reason for existence of such category and Wikipedia should respect and follow scientific approach to the subject and should not tolerate dubious nationalistic approach that glorify "eternal ethnic property" of certain ethnic groups.
PANONIAN11:46, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:Judaism in Oklahoma
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Category:American Dad! Christmas episodes
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Category:South Park Christmas episodes
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Category:International cooking tools
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Category:Trade shows
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The result of the discussion was:Rename. There's a clash between
WP:RETAIN and the principle that a category name should match the main article. The general feeling is the main article takes precedence.
Timrollpickering (
talk)
11:31, 22 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Oppose. This is probably another case of US/UK English and there is no reason to change. Sub categories can be changed to reflect local usage.
Vegaswikian (
talk)
18:40, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
I don't really have a preference for either 'trade fair' or 'trade show', but I think that the article and category titles should match. The name of the Hong Kong category, for instance, seems as if it arose from a lack of clarity that 'trade fair' and 'trade show' are the same thing. -- Black Falcon(
talk)20:57, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Well I just did a quick Google search for these. "Trade fair" returned almost 20,000,000 hits, but "trade show" returns almost 44,000,000 hits. So clearly this is the more common, at least based on Google hits.
Vegaswikian (
talk)
21:31, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Rename per nom, as long as the article remains where it is. The top-level category should match the article name. It is at country-specific categories that differences due to
WP:ENGVAR should come into it. Discussions on the appropriateness of the article name can be had at the article page.
Good Ol’factory(talk)21:32, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:Drina
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Category:Amathusia
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Category:Pacific War battlefields
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Category:Cold War units of the United States Air Force
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Nominator's rationale:Merge. I see no reason for this extra level of navigation added by TfT. I'm not sure about one of the parents, but for now, upmerge to both parents.
Vegaswikian (
talk)
01:19, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:NGC objects
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The result of the discussion was:rename to
Category:NGC astronomical objects. I don't see the support I would have expected for expanding the acronym, but the case for expanding the word "objects" is compelling to many of the commenters. There's not a clear majority for any one term, but "astronomical" seems to be the best choice. There are several other categories in
Category:Astronomical objects that would occasion a similar treatment.--
Mike Selinker (
talk)
19:12, 7 April 2012 (UTC)reply
Comment. I assumed that the "New General Catalogue" was some sort of mail order catalogue, and had to open up the head article
New General Catalogue to learn that it is actually about objects in astronomy. I prefer categories which
do exactly what it says on the tin, but even with the abbreviation expanded, this one is still opaque. The nominator is right about the need to expand the abbreviation, but that's not enough. Please can we have something in the category name which identifies this as being about objects in astronomy? --
BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (
contribs)
08:47, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Comment While I respect the need for clear naming, anyone who sees the category will be on an astronomical page. So I don't think there's an argument that people will be confused that it's object from <insert random backronym here>. On the other hand the term NGC is commonly used for these objects similar to NATO, SI, AIDS - it is explained once then the acronym is used for ever after. RichFarmbrough,
18:04, 15 March 2012 (UTC).reply
Meh I don't really mind the proposed renaming but I don't think it's really necessary. As BHG points out, the name will remain mysterious with or without expanding the acronym. If the issue is avoiding confusion for readers, switching to
Category:NGC astronomical objects might be more efficient. Then again, Rich is correct in pointing out that ultimately, readers who chance upon the category will already be in an astronomy context.
Pichpich (
talk)
21:21, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Comment the objects are almost never spelt out. It would be unusual for them to be spelt out. If they don't use "NGC" (or 'N.G.C.' / "N. G. C."), then they are called "Dreyer objects" in really old references (Dreyer built this catalogue atop the General Catalogues of the Herschels)
70.24.251.224 (
talk)
04:18, 17 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Comment – I pretty much agree with the opinions above. It might be more descriptive to say "NGC deep sky objects", or use the full catalogue name: "New General Catalogue of Nebulae and Clusters of Stars". But I don't really see a rename as necessary. Regards,
RJH (
talk)
04:32, 17 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Oppose to conditional oppose – Renaming sounds meh-ish, as long as it doesn't lead to all pages in that category becoming renamed. Its contents are pretty the way they are. Also, the parent category (
Category:Astronomical_catalogues) is rife with acronyms. Should they all be spelled out? Sounds like this needs to be a larger discussion topic (which would almost certainly result in a 'no').
Tom.Reding (
talk)
02:12, 18 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Well, I was planning on nominating those afterwards if there was consensus for change with this one. I suppose you could call this a "test nomination" or a testing of the waters on the broader issue.
Good Ol’factory(talk)04:01, 20 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Comment - I'm not overly concerned by the fact that the scope of 'New General Catalogue' is not readily apparent to most readers. It is, at least, a better starting point for searches than just 'NGC'. However, the fact that all of the objects are known as 'NGC####' and the following text from the article lead me to hesitate in my support: "The New General Catalogue of Nebulae and Clusters of Stars (NGC) is a well-known catalogue of deep sky objects in astronomy. It contains 7,840 objects, known as the NGC objects." -- Black Falcon(
talk)17:22, 20 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Oppose Many readers who know "NGC" have no clue that it expands to "New General Catalog". The proposed rename makes it more opaque, not less, despite the technical ambiguity.
TJRC (
talk)
21:16, 20 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Rename. Knowing what NGC is, I was willing to leave it alone. However the
National Gallery of Canada has objects in its collection, so that leaves me thinking this is clearly ambiguous. I think part of the problem here is that if you know this is about astronomy, then you know which definition applies. I'll also agree with the comment above that many readers may, in this context, know what NGC is and not know New General Catalogue. Conversely more users probably don't know either making both specialist terms. So I guess the question is which is clearer for the readers? I think the proposed name is.
Vegaswikian (
talk)
18:35, 22 March 2012 (UTC)reply
I've checked, and can't find any indication of the use of "NGC object" to refer to an item in the National Gallery of Canada collection. In contrast, "NGC object" is the common name for objects cataloged in the New General Catalog. Is there something you've seen that indicates there's more than a theoretical ambiguity?
TJRC (
talk)
17:20, 26 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Rename to
Category:NGC astronomical objects or
Category:NGC deep sky objects, per BHG above. (I prefer the first, but whatever would be most appropriate per references is fine with me.) "New General Catalogue" and "NGC" are both pretty vague. No need to expand the acronym in this case if some decent adjective(s) is/are added. Regardless, some sort of rename should happen, as NGC objects is just too vague as it stands. - jc3701:03, 28 March 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:Battle of Central Europe
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Nominator's rationale:Rename as proposed or merge to
Category:Western European Campaign (1944-1945). I fail to be convinced that Central Europe is clear and unambiguous in this use. We already have at least one category that probably adequately covers this. Both of the options provided have articles as opposed to the redirect that supports the current category.
Vegaswikian (
talk)
01:12, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Support -- either option. The presnet title is ambiguous, as the extnet of "central Europe" is uncertain. The term lost its meaning during the cold war, when Eprope was split inot East and West. Arguably Poland and Czech Republic are in Central Europe, but they were conquered by USSR and thus do not fit the stated scope of the category.
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Category:Airfields of the United States Army Air Forces in Occupied Germany
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Some constellation renames that were opposed in the speedy section
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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General explanation. Each one of the nominations in this section involves a category that was part of a group of opposed nominations in the
speedy rename section: see
here for more information. The rationale for renaming was originally based on relevant
naming convention, which states: "Names of topic categories should be singular, normally corresponding to the name of a Wikipedia article." The only real issue here is if we need to depart from that due to possible ambiguities. Though the rationale for the nomination of each is basically the same, due to varying issues that could arise with the ambiguity of each name, I propose that each should be discussed individually.
Good Ol’factory(talk)00:21, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
They should be consistently named with each other, otherwise categorizing articles into them would become an extreme chore, since you'd have to remember how each of the categories are named.
70.24.251.224 (
talk)
04:43, 16 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Comment - The argument that "[t]here is no superior benefit in the proposed rename" is disputable but more importantly, I think, not especially relevant. In a case such as this, where extant guidelines and past consensus clearly favor renaming, the burden of argument must be to demonstrate why a change should not occur – i.e., why a
local consensus should, in this case, override previous community consensus. I view 70.24...'s comments above and below as a commendable attempt to demonstrate just that and continue to support the rename only because I can see no reason for this argument to apply to constellations when it does not apply to almost any other topic. Still, it convinces me that category redirects would be a good idea if these categories are renamed. -- Black Falcon(
talk)17:31, 16 March 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:Equuleus constellation
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Nominator's rationale:Rename. I suggest matching the category to the article name
Equuleus. The name is Latin for "Little (or Young) Horse", but I don't think there is any chance for confusion with anything else. If disambiguation is thought necessary for some reason, ‹The
templateCat is being
considered for merging.›Category:Equuleus (constellation) would make more sense since the name of the thing is "Equuleus" and it is a constellation; its name is not "Equuleus constellation".
Good Ol’factory(talk)00:29, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Oppose the constellations should have a consistent naming method "X constellation" would be good to make all constellation categories consistent with one-another. This eases using constellation categories, which unlike articles, are not redirected. You don't need to memorize what each and every article is named by what method to get the category. Natural disambiguation is also "X constellation", per how things are commonly written or heard in speech.
70.24.245.141 (
talk)
04:35, 15 March 2012 (UTC) —
70.24.245.141 (
talk •
contribs) has made
few or no other edits outside this topic. reply
Oppose – The current name is clear in purpose and meaning. There is no superior benefit in the proposed rename. Regards,
RJH (
talk)
15:16, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:Piscis Austrinus constellation
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Oppose the constellations should have a consistent naming method "X constellation" would be good to make all constellation categories consistent with one-another. This eases using constellation categories, which unlike articles, are not redirected. You don't need to memorize what each and every article is named by what method to get the category. Natural disambiguation is also "X constellation", per how things are commonly written or heard in speech.
70.24.245.141 (
talk)
04:35, 15 March 2012 (UTC) —
70.24.245.141 (
talk •
contribs) has made
few or no other edits outside this topic. reply
Oppose – The current name is clear in purpose and meaning. There is no superior benefit in the proposed rename. Regards,
RJH (
talk)
15:16, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:Leo Minor constellation
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Nominator's rationale:Rename. I suggest matching the category to the article name
Leo Minor. The name is Latin for "the Smaller Lion", but I don't think there is any chance for confusion with anything else. If disambiguation is thought necessary for some reason, ‹The
templateCat is being
considered for merging.›Category:Leo Minor (constellation) would make more sense since the name of the thing is "Leo Minor" and it is a constellation; its name is not "Leo Minor constellation".
Good Ol’factory(talk)00:27, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Oppose the constellations should have a consistent naming method "X constellation" would be good to make all constellation categories consistent with one-another. This eases using constellation categories, which unlike articles, are not redirected. You don't need to memorize what each and every article is named by what method to get the category. Natural disambiguation is also "X constellation", per how things are commonly written or heard in speech.
70.24.245.141 (
talk)
04:35, 15 March 2012 (UTC)—
70.24.245.141 (
talk) has made
few or no other edits outside this topic. reply
Oppose – The current name is clear in purpose and meaning. There is no superior benefit in the proposed rename. Regards,
RJH (
talk)
15:16, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:Corona Australis constellation
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Oppose the constellations should have a consistent naming method "X constellation" would be good to make all constellation categories consistent with one-another. This eases using constellation categories, which unlike articles, are not redirected. You don't need to memorize what each and every article is named by what method to get the category. Natural disambiguation is also "X constellation", per how things are commonly written or heard in speech.
70.24.245.141 (
talk)
04:35, 15 March 2012 (UTC) —
70.24.245.141 (
talk •
contribs) has made
few or no other edits outside this topic. reply
Oppose – The current name is clear in purpose and meaning. There is no superior benefit in the proposed rename. Regards,
RJH (
talk)
15:16, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:Triangulum Australe constellation
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Oppose – The current name is clear in purpose and meaning. There is no superior benefit in the proposed rename. Regards,
RJH (
talk)
15:16, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Oppose the constellations should have a consistent naming method "X constellation" would be good to make all constellation categories consistent with one-another. This eases using constellation categories, which unlike articles, are not redirected. You don't need to memorize what each and every article is named by what method to get the category. Natural disambiguation is also "X constellation", per how things are commonly written or heard in speech.
70.24.251.224 (
talk)
04:43, 16 March 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:Canis Minor constellation
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Nominator's rationale:Rename. I suggest matching the category to the article name
Canis Minor. The name is Latin for "the Smaller Dog", but I don't think there is any chance for confusion with anything else. If disambiguation is thought necessary for some reason, ‹The
templateCat is being
considered for merging.›Category:Canis Minor (constellation) would make more sense since the name of the thing is "Canis Minor" and it is a constellation; its name is not "Canis Minor constellation".
Good Ol’factory(talk)00:27, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Oppose the constellations should have a consistent naming method "X constellation" would be good to make all constellation categories consistent with one-another. This eases using constellation categories, which unlike articles, are not redirected. You don't need to memorize what each and every article is named by what method to get the category. Natural disambiguation is also "X constellation", per how things are commonly written or heard in speech.
70.24.245.141 (
talk)
04:35, 15 March 2012 (UTC)—
70.24.245.141 (
talk) has made
few or no other edits outside this topic. reply
Oppose – The current name is clear in purpose and meaning. There is no superior benefit in the proposed rename. Regards,
RJH (
talk)
15:16, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Rename agree that "constellation" is redundant, and support using (constellation) only if the majority of other constellations require a disambiguator. Otherwise make the parenthesized disambiguator a category redirect. RichFarmbrough,
18:10, 15 March 2012 (UTC).reply
Keep or Expand Nom 70... is right, there is a very consistent naming convention in
Category:Constellations where the categories end in constellation even though the lead articles do not. Open to nominating that whole tree for renaming or explicitly using this nomination as a trial with plans to nominate the rest later.
RevelationDirect (
talk)
08:52, 17 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Rename Sorry, was going from bottom of page and didn't see other noms. Category should match lead article unless there is a compelling reason not to. Don't see any compelling reason not to.
RevelationDirect (
talk)
08:55, 17 March 2012 (UTC)reply
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Nominator's rationale:Rename. Opposed speedy nomination.
PESA is ambiguous. The main article is at
PESA SA. Since the opposition was stated (copied below), no move has been made to propose moving the article. Don't know what else to say.
Good Ol’factory(talk)21:44, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Why? The main article is
PESA, and titling guidelines say to avoid using SA, Ltd. Inc. etc in titles. Oppose - I'm also sure this is the primary use for the name PESA, and that the other things named in
PESA are unlikely to ever have categories..
Oranjblud (
talk)
21:51, 12 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Sorry my mistake - corrected above - however this think the rename is wrong - and am suggesting that primary use is of
PESA is
PESA SA (most common) - ie 'bad title' for main article.
Oranjblud (
talk)
21:57, 12 March 2012 (UTC)reply
If you wanted to immediately start a requested move using
WP:RM for the article, I would be willing to suspend this nomination. But as long as the article remains where it is, I think the category should match. I'm not sure it's a clear-cut issue—we also have a river called
Pesa, so it gets complicated.
Good Ol’factory(talk)21:59, 12 March 2012 (UTC)reply
As I noted in the discussion - my thoughts are that
PESA SA is in fact the primary topic of
PESA and the disambiguation page should be renamed accordingly, and the relavent page renames made - as such
Category:PESA would remain the correct title.
Oranjblud (
talk) 01:37, 16 March 2012 (UTC) It's not clear if I should make a competing page move request, or what..??
Oranjblud (
talk)
01:39, 16 March 2012 (UTC)reply
I mentioned in the speedy discussion above that if you want to immediately start a requested move using
WP:RM for the article, I will be willing to suspend this nomination until the close of that discussion.
Good Ol’factory(talk)01:54, 16 March 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:Iranian women biologists
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Nominator's rationale: Unnecessary triple intersection. I don't think we should be categorizing scientists by all combinations of field, gender, and nationality.
LeSnail (
talk)
20:44, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Triple upmerge as previously suggested. I don't recall exactly, but I think I created this category way back in the day as a result of a discussion with a Persian editor regarding gender differences. Previous commenter makes a solid argument all the way around.
68.62.189.3 (
talk)
12:50, 19 March 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:Commenting available on articles online
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Nominator's rationale:Delete. Not part of any discernable scheme. Only parent category is
Category:Newspapers. I can see it being useful somehow, even expanded to subordinate hierarchies, but I don't think the initiative should be done like this.
meco (
talk)
20:29, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Comment This is a general comment about the process of removing categories that some of us try to build:
Why is there no mechanism to draw the attention of others to these discussions such as the one that exists on Articles for Deletion discussions?
The only arguments I have seen (I only come here to participate in discussions about categories that I started myself) is
not defining which is a term that has been coined by a small Group of "category insiders", I think?
Categories at Wikipedia are in such a mess, attacking the few that try to help fix the problem will ensure they stay a mess.
Why not concentrate instead on increasing the number of Wikipedia readers who use categories?
Ottawahitech (
talk)
There are various mechanisms in place, both manual and automated. For instance the notification templates such as {{cfd-notify}} and other that can be placed on related article talk pages or on WikiProject talk pages. If the category is added to a WikiProject on its talk page that project will be automatically notified on its Alerts page.
The "not defining" argument is problematic, I believe. There is so much that is readily being categorized that clearly isn't defining, such as year of birth...
Maintaining and developing the categories on Wikipedia is a huge and ongoing endeavor. There are a number of Wikipedia namespace pages that discuss this and where input is being welcomed. __
meco (
talk)
16:14, 21 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Delete This does not categorize based on a defining characteristic of these newspapers. (Also the name is very strange.)
LeSnail (
talk)
20:55, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Delete - It took me a minute to understand what was being categorized: newspapers with online versions that allow readers to comment on articles. This is primarily a technical feature of websites and, as noted above,
not defining for any newspaper. Information of this type may be suitable in an article about the topic of
Online commenting but a directory of websites which allow it is
not suitable for inclusion. -- Black Falcon(
talk)16:59, 16 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Comment I only wish it was common... Online commenting on news stories is only available on some publications, and only in developed countries, and now exceedingly, only through companies
such as Facebook. Yes it is not defining because it is so new, there is precious little written about it (I hope someone can prove me wrong on this), and because things move so fast companies are taking advantage of the chaos and gaining a monopoly.
Ottawahitech (
talk)
14:43, 21 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Ottawa, My experience is based on American and British newspapers which almost universally have this feature so maybe there is a geographic bias in my experience. Nontheless, just the publications I read from those 2 countries would overflow a category.
RevelationDirect (
talk)
03:48, 22 March 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:Sports in the Las Vegas Valley
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Nominator's rationale:Rename. Rename to match the main article. This wound up at this title as the result of a problematic move of the parent category from metropolitan area to valley. This move changed the scope of this entire series of categories from about 8,000 sq mi or so to 600 sq mi. The move was based on a redirect from the metro area to the the valley article that is there only because a manual cleanup of around 4,000 links is still needed, not because in the long run that the redirect is correct. Most of the links should go to the valley, but a good number are really for the metro area. So it is a manual review and not a bot task.
Vegaswikian (
talk)
19:23, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:Rock albums by British−American artists
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Oppose. The UK's state media, the BBC produced the documentary "From New York to Wimbourne" discussing the American sojourn of Fripp, and in particular the influence of the happenings in New York and West Virginia. Bruford left in the 1990s, with comments about "Americans" in his autobiography. All the other new band-members of King Crimson are Americans. (The "angel of categorical death" originally placed King Crimson in the category
Category:Rock albums by British artists, reflecting its Wessex origins.) There are obviously other British–American bands, e.g.
The Monkeys or the Akron–London band
The Pretenders. In contrast, a British-American artist would be an American artist with British parents, or a British-raised artist who lives in and identifies with America (e.g. by becoming a U.S. citizen), etc. Kiefer.
Wolfowitz20:47, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
On the other hand, since rock music is an American art form, it is redundant to mention "American", one could argue. Perhaps then all rock music should be put in the category "American music"? ;) Kiefer.
Wolfowitz20:31, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Response First off, I think that it's fair to say that Brits are important in the formation of rock--it is ultimately American, but they can't claim a monopoly on it. Furthermore, as pointed out below, the simple solution is to place the artist's album category in both
Category:Rock albums by Yian artistsandCategory:Rock albums by Zian artists--this will preserve the structure we already have. Finally, I don't understand why you inserted both The Pretenders' individual albums and the artists' album category here--what is the purpose of that...? —
Justin (koavf)❤
T☮
C☺
M☯
21:23, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Delete This awkward category only serves to isolate albums in a category that readers won't even realize exists. It also fails to serve a need. While one can argue that there may be a few points in common between albums recorded by British artists, I just can't see how to make the argument that there's something distinct about albums recorded by bands whose membership was not 100% British. Besides, where would one set the bar? Should we have separate categories for albums by British bands who have a drummer born in Ireland or Denmark? Some bands are generally considered binational and the obvious solution is to simply categorize those in both national categories.
Pichpich (
talk)
21:04, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
I would suggest deleting American rock and British rock as being too large and non-informative. Categories of other nations' rockers may be of interest. Kiefer.
Wolfowitz12:25, 16 March 2012 (UTC)reply
At the category level, a couple of good approximations are much preferable to breaking down everything into tiny categories that nobody knows about. From a purely practical standpoint, the odds of finding
Category:King Crimson albums are much better with the dual categorization.
Pichpich (
talk)
22:56, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Delete. I understand the intent, but I agree with Pichpich that it's difficult to argue that there is anything distinct about albums recorded by bands who were not 100% British. I agree it's easily solved by just categorizing them in both nationality trees. Categorization does not always work best if one tries to make it precision perfect; sometimes it provides a "rough guide" to organization, with the articles sorting out the messy details.
Good Ol’factory(talk)21:56, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Delete we have no article
British-American artists, so a cat is premature and ambiguous. it could mean that the "artists" are an amalgam of some people from each side of the pond (Pretenders, Fleetwood Mac, etc. come to mind), but there is no cat for them as a bunch, why for their music? it could mean an artist (or artists), since we use pluralized categories to categorize individuals (otherwise the category
Category:Presidents of the United States would only have
Grover Cleveland as no other article in the category was a multiple "presidents"), with British American ancestry (
Mick Fleetwood being an obvious example). But again, we don't seem to have that category either. So alas, there seems to be no logical undepinnings for this "genre" or "triple intersection".
Carlossuarez46 (
talk)
22:05, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Delete - put it in both 'British' and 'American' (or delete the lot of them except for individual artists - a band doesn't have a nationality).
Oculi (
talk)
23:03, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Nominator's rationale:Listify and delete, following
CFD March 1 (Israeli electricians). None of these people achieved notability as electricians. In some cases the career was a contributing factor e.g. becoming a union activist or (less happily) an amputee, but the reason for notability was something else in every case, and they are categorised accordingly. I have already created the page
List of electricians to provide a replacement way to navigate notable people who have shared this occupation.
Comment if you repurpose cat:electricians, then shouldn't be singularlized, since it is no longer about electricans, but about the occupation of electrician? (several other categories exist as singular and plural, with plural categorizing examples, and singular categorizing articles about it)
70.24.251.224 (
talk)
04:15, 17 March 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:Empty categories
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Nominator's rationale:Delete. This has been nominated before on
9 January 2011 and
19 February 2011, both times resulting in Keep. A year later, I still find it a completely useless and redundant. First, NO empty categories (in or out of process) end up in here unless the category that was emptied uses either the template {{albums category}} or {{album label category}} (which numbers less than 2000 possible categories). Second, editors who patrol empty categories do so by going to
Wikipedia:Database reports/Empty categories not this category. Basically, this has become a parent to one and only other category:
Category:Empty categories awaiting deletion. Because of the noted lag, a category may not show up in here for days, by which time it has already been seen and nominated for {{db-c1}} by patrollers of the database report page. The point is that the supposed purpose of this category is already being served. --StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me17:42, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Running this stuff of database reports is s sticking plaster, until category lag problems are sorted out. Also the fact that you don't find something useful is not a compelling deletion argument. RichFarmbrough,
17:57, 15 March 2012 (UTC).reply
I'm not sure what "is s sticking plaster" means or what category lag problems you're referring to. Bugzilla links are always helpful and welcome.
The fact that someone finds something to not be useful (or to be useless) is a compelling deletion argument to me. The onus is on those who wish to see the category stay around, surely. Categories exist to serve users. If this particular category isn't serving any users, I see no reason to keep it around. --
MZMcBride (
talk)
22:07, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Delete: I don't see any real valid use for this category. Empty categories should be marked for deletion or populated, not categorized in this category. There may be a use-case for a "Category:Intentionally empty categories" or something of that nature, but that's a different matter for a different forum. I'm certainly willing to revisit my vote in light of reasonable arguments that this category is needed, but as of now, I don't see any need to keep it around. --
MZMcBride (
talk)
22:07, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Delete The only purpose for this category would be to identify them for deletion. Categorising it as empty is pointless. I am not sure what the purpose of an intentionally empty category would be, except briefly between creation and population. Anyway where a new category is needed, a simple way to create it is to categorise an article to it and then create it using the resultant redlink.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
14:27, 16 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Delete - It may have been useful at one time but it is not anymore. This category is, compared to the database report, a less useful maintenance tool since it provides an incomplete directory of empty categories. Thus, I can conceive of no purpose for this category that is not already served by
Category:Empty categories awaiting deletion. -- Black Falcon(
talk)16:26, 16 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Hmmmm, though ideally MediaWiki would auto-populate this category when a category goes empty... eliminate the need for a database report (which was really just a replacement for the horribly inefficient
Special:UnusedCategories). It's turtles all the way down.... --
MZMcBride (
talk)
17:23, 17 March 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:House of Vojislavljević
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Category:English idioms with chinese equivalent
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Nominator's rationale:Delete. I would say most idioms in any one language have some equivalent idiom in most other languages, and setting up a scheme of language-to-language correspondences would result in massive overcategorization. This category is a singleton; after all, WP is not a phrasebook. -
choster (
talk)
16:29, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:Women's field hockey at the 2008 Summer Olympics
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Nominator's rationale: Upmerge. No reason for women's field hockey to have special categories, especially considering the number of articles in the categories.
HandsomeFella (
talk)
15:09, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Comment: I acknowledge what you're saying, but the general category is still a little weird to me. I'm not saying that there is no need to categorize women's field hockey tournaments. But the right way to go about it IMO is to place the women's Olympic tournament articles (Field hockey at the **** Summer Olympics – Women's tournament) directly in such a category (or categories). (And likewise for the men's tournaments.) There isn't even a main article for the topic. Otherwise we would have to create categories for men's Olympics tournaments, because why are the women's Olympic field hockey tournaments a subset of Olympic field hockey tournaments, while the men's are not?
HandsomeFella (
talk)
10:04, 16 March 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:Romanian historical regions
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Nominator's rationale:Delete. I am proposing this for deletion because it is copy of existing category named
Historical regions in Romania. Furthermore, term "Romanian" could have double meaning and could be related not only to Romania, but also to ethnic Romanians and the category have very clear nationalistic implication, i.e. it imply that these regions are "belonging to ethnic Romanians", which is very controversial due to the fact that these regions are also located in the countries that neighboring Romania and that they are largely populated by non-Romanian populations. I do not see any valid logical or scientific reason for existence of such category and Wikipedia should respect and follow scientific approach to the subject and should not tolerate dubious nationalistic approach that glorify "eternal ethnic property" of certain ethnic groups.
PANONIAN11:46, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:Judaism in Oklahoma
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Category:American Dad! Christmas episodes
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Category:South Park Christmas episodes
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Category:International cooking tools
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Category:Trade shows
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The result of the discussion was:Rename. There's a clash between
WP:RETAIN and the principle that a category name should match the main article. The general feeling is the main article takes precedence.
Timrollpickering (
talk)
11:31, 22 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Oppose. This is probably another case of US/UK English and there is no reason to change. Sub categories can be changed to reflect local usage.
Vegaswikian (
talk)
18:40, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
I don't really have a preference for either 'trade fair' or 'trade show', but I think that the article and category titles should match. The name of the Hong Kong category, for instance, seems as if it arose from a lack of clarity that 'trade fair' and 'trade show' are the same thing. -- Black Falcon(
talk)20:57, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Well I just did a quick Google search for these. "Trade fair" returned almost 20,000,000 hits, but "trade show" returns almost 44,000,000 hits. So clearly this is the more common, at least based on Google hits.
Vegaswikian (
talk)
21:31, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Rename per nom, as long as the article remains where it is. The top-level category should match the article name. It is at country-specific categories that differences due to
WP:ENGVAR should come into it. Discussions on the appropriateness of the article name can be had at the article page.
Good Ol’factory(talk)21:32, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:Drina
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Category:Amathusia
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Category:Pacific War battlefields
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Category:Cold War units of the United States Air Force
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Nominator's rationale:Merge. I see no reason for this extra level of navigation added by TfT. I'm not sure about one of the parents, but for now, upmerge to both parents.
Vegaswikian (
talk)
01:19, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:NGC objects
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The result of the discussion was:rename to
Category:NGC astronomical objects. I don't see the support I would have expected for expanding the acronym, but the case for expanding the word "objects" is compelling to many of the commenters. There's not a clear majority for any one term, but "astronomical" seems to be the best choice. There are several other categories in
Category:Astronomical objects that would occasion a similar treatment.--
Mike Selinker (
talk)
19:12, 7 April 2012 (UTC)reply
Comment. I assumed that the "New General Catalogue" was some sort of mail order catalogue, and had to open up the head article
New General Catalogue to learn that it is actually about objects in astronomy. I prefer categories which
do exactly what it says on the tin, but even with the abbreviation expanded, this one is still opaque. The nominator is right about the need to expand the abbreviation, but that's not enough. Please can we have something in the category name which identifies this as being about objects in astronomy? --
BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (
contribs)
08:47, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Comment While I respect the need for clear naming, anyone who sees the category will be on an astronomical page. So I don't think there's an argument that people will be confused that it's object from <insert random backronym here>. On the other hand the term NGC is commonly used for these objects similar to NATO, SI, AIDS - it is explained once then the acronym is used for ever after. RichFarmbrough,
18:04, 15 March 2012 (UTC).reply
Meh I don't really mind the proposed renaming but I don't think it's really necessary. As BHG points out, the name will remain mysterious with or without expanding the acronym. If the issue is avoiding confusion for readers, switching to
Category:NGC astronomical objects might be more efficient. Then again, Rich is correct in pointing out that ultimately, readers who chance upon the category will already be in an astronomy context.
Pichpich (
talk)
21:21, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Comment the objects are almost never spelt out. It would be unusual for them to be spelt out. If they don't use "NGC" (or 'N.G.C.' / "N. G. C."), then they are called "Dreyer objects" in really old references (Dreyer built this catalogue atop the General Catalogues of the Herschels)
70.24.251.224 (
talk)
04:18, 17 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Comment – I pretty much agree with the opinions above. It might be more descriptive to say "NGC deep sky objects", or use the full catalogue name: "New General Catalogue of Nebulae and Clusters of Stars". But I don't really see a rename as necessary. Regards,
RJH (
talk)
04:32, 17 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Oppose to conditional oppose – Renaming sounds meh-ish, as long as it doesn't lead to all pages in that category becoming renamed. Its contents are pretty the way they are. Also, the parent category (
Category:Astronomical_catalogues) is rife with acronyms. Should they all be spelled out? Sounds like this needs to be a larger discussion topic (which would almost certainly result in a 'no').
Tom.Reding (
talk)
02:12, 18 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Well, I was planning on nominating those afterwards if there was consensus for change with this one. I suppose you could call this a "test nomination" or a testing of the waters on the broader issue.
Good Ol’factory(talk)04:01, 20 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Comment - I'm not overly concerned by the fact that the scope of 'New General Catalogue' is not readily apparent to most readers. It is, at least, a better starting point for searches than just 'NGC'. However, the fact that all of the objects are known as 'NGC####' and the following text from the article lead me to hesitate in my support: "The New General Catalogue of Nebulae and Clusters of Stars (NGC) is a well-known catalogue of deep sky objects in astronomy. It contains 7,840 objects, known as the NGC objects." -- Black Falcon(
talk)17:22, 20 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Oppose Many readers who know "NGC" have no clue that it expands to "New General Catalog". The proposed rename makes it more opaque, not less, despite the technical ambiguity.
TJRC (
talk)
21:16, 20 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Rename. Knowing what NGC is, I was willing to leave it alone. However the
National Gallery of Canada has objects in its collection, so that leaves me thinking this is clearly ambiguous. I think part of the problem here is that if you know this is about astronomy, then you know which definition applies. I'll also agree with the comment above that many readers may, in this context, know what NGC is and not know New General Catalogue. Conversely more users probably don't know either making both specialist terms. So I guess the question is which is clearer for the readers? I think the proposed name is.
Vegaswikian (
talk)
18:35, 22 March 2012 (UTC)reply
I've checked, and can't find any indication of the use of "NGC object" to refer to an item in the National Gallery of Canada collection. In contrast, "NGC object" is the common name for objects cataloged in the New General Catalog. Is there something you've seen that indicates there's more than a theoretical ambiguity?
TJRC (
talk)
17:20, 26 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Rename to
Category:NGC astronomical objects or
Category:NGC deep sky objects, per BHG above. (I prefer the first, but whatever would be most appropriate per references is fine with me.) "New General Catalogue" and "NGC" are both pretty vague. No need to expand the acronym in this case if some decent adjective(s) is/are added. Regardless, some sort of rename should happen, as NGC objects is just too vague as it stands. - jc3701:03, 28 March 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:Battle of Central Europe
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Nominator's rationale:Rename as proposed or merge to
Category:Western European Campaign (1944-1945). I fail to be convinced that Central Europe is clear and unambiguous in this use. We already have at least one category that probably adequately covers this. Both of the options provided have articles as opposed to the redirect that supports the current category.
Vegaswikian (
talk)
01:12, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Support -- either option. The presnet title is ambiguous, as the extnet of "central Europe" is uncertain. The term lost its meaning during the cold war, when Eprope was split inot East and West. Arguably Poland and Czech Republic are in Central Europe, but they were conquered by USSR and thus do not fit the stated scope of the category.
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Category:Airfields of the United States Army Air Forces in Occupied Germany
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Some constellation renames that were opposed in the speedy section
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General explanation. Each one of the nominations in this section involves a category that was part of a group of opposed nominations in the
speedy rename section: see
here for more information. The rationale for renaming was originally based on relevant
naming convention, which states: "Names of topic categories should be singular, normally corresponding to the name of a Wikipedia article." The only real issue here is if we need to depart from that due to possible ambiguities. Though the rationale for the nomination of each is basically the same, due to varying issues that could arise with the ambiguity of each name, I propose that each should be discussed individually.
Good Ol’factory(talk)00:21, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
They should be consistently named with each other, otherwise categorizing articles into them would become an extreme chore, since you'd have to remember how each of the categories are named.
70.24.251.224 (
talk)
04:43, 16 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Comment - The argument that "[t]here is no superior benefit in the proposed rename" is disputable but more importantly, I think, not especially relevant. In a case such as this, where extant guidelines and past consensus clearly favor renaming, the burden of argument must be to demonstrate why a change should not occur – i.e., why a
local consensus should, in this case, override previous community consensus. I view 70.24...'s comments above and below as a commendable attempt to demonstrate just that and continue to support the rename only because I can see no reason for this argument to apply to constellations when it does not apply to almost any other topic. Still, it convinces me that category redirects would be a good idea if these categories are renamed. -- Black Falcon(
talk)17:31, 16 March 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:Equuleus constellation
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Nominator's rationale:Rename. I suggest matching the category to the article name
Equuleus. The name is Latin for "Little (or Young) Horse", but I don't think there is any chance for confusion with anything else. If disambiguation is thought necessary for some reason, ‹The
templateCat is being
considered for merging.›Category:Equuleus (constellation) would make more sense since the name of the thing is "Equuleus" and it is a constellation; its name is not "Equuleus constellation".
Good Ol’factory(talk)00:29, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Oppose the constellations should have a consistent naming method "X constellation" would be good to make all constellation categories consistent with one-another. This eases using constellation categories, which unlike articles, are not redirected. You don't need to memorize what each and every article is named by what method to get the category. Natural disambiguation is also "X constellation", per how things are commonly written or heard in speech.
70.24.245.141 (
talk)
04:35, 15 March 2012 (UTC) —
70.24.245.141 (
talk •
contribs) has made
few or no other edits outside this topic. reply
Oppose – The current name is clear in purpose and meaning. There is no superior benefit in the proposed rename. Regards,
RJH (
talk)
15:16, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:Piscis Austrinus constellation
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Oppose the constellations should have a consistent naming method "X constellation" would be good to make all constellation categories consistent with one-another. This eases using constellation categories, which unlike articles, are not redirected. You don't need to memorize what each and every article is named by what method to get the category. Natural disambiguation is also "X constellation", per how things are commonly written or heard in speech.
70.24.245.141 (
talk)
04:35, 15 March 2012 (UTC) —
70.24.245.141 (
talk •
contribs) has made
few or no other edits outside this topic. reply
Oppose – The current name is clear in purpose and meaning. There is no superior benefit in the proposed rename. Regards,
RJH (
talk)
15:16, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:Leo Minor constellation
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Nominator's rationale:Rename. I suggest matching the category to the article name
Leo Minor. The name is Latin for "the Smaller Lion", but I don't think there is any chance for confusion with anything else. If disambiguation is thought necessary for some reason, ‹The
templateCat is being
considered for merging.›Category:Leo Minor (constellation) would make more sense since the name of the thing is "Leo Minor" and it is a constellation; its name is not "Leo Minor constellation".
Good Ol’factory(talk)00:27, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Oppose the constellations should have a consistent naming method "X constellation" would be good to make all constellation categories consistent with one-another. This eases using constellation categories, which unlike articles, are not redirected. You don't need to memorize what each and every article is named by what method to get the category. Natural disambiguation is also "X constellation", per how things are commonly written or heard in speech.
70.24.245.141 (
talk)
04:35, 15 March 2012 (UTC)—
70.24.245.141 (
talk) has made
few or no other edits outside this topic. reply
Oppose – The current name is clear in purpose and meaning. There is no superior benefit in the proposed rename. Regards,
RJH (
talk)
15:16, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:Corona Australis constellation
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Oppose the constellations should have a consistent naming method "X constellation" would be good to make all constellation categories consistent with one-another. This eases using constellation categories, which unlike articles, are not redirected. You don't need to memorize what each and every article is named by what method to get the category. Natural disambiguation is also "X constellation", per how things are commonly written or heard in speech.
70.24.245.141 (
talk)
04:35, 15 March 2012 (UTC) —
70.24.245.141 (
talk •
contribs) has made
few or no other edits outside this topic. reply
Oppose – The current name is clear in purpose and meaning. There is no superior benefit in the proposed rename. Regards,
RJH (
talk)
15:16, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:Triangulum Australe constellation
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Oppose – The current name is clear in purpose and meaning. There is no superior benefit in the proposed rename. Regards,
RJH (
talk)
15:16, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Oppose the constellations should have a consistent naming method "X constellation" would be good to make all constellation categories consistent with one-another. This eases using constellation categories, which unlike articles, are not redirected. You don't need to memorize what each and every article is named by what method to get the category. Natural disambiguation is also "X constellation", per how things are commonly written or heard in speech.
70.24.251.224 (
talk)
04:43, 16 March 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:Canis Minor constellation
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Nominator's rationale:Rename. I suggest matching the category to the article name
Canis Minor. The name is Latin for "the Smaller Dog", but I don't think there is any chance for confusion with anything else. If disambiguation is thought necessary for some reason, ‹The
templateCat is being
considered for merging.›Category:Canis Minor (constellation) would make more sense since the name of the thing is "Canis Minor" and it is a constellation; its name is not "Canis Minor constellation".
Good Ol’factory(talk)00:27, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Oppose the constellations should have a consistent naming method "X constellation" would be good to make all constellation categories consistent with one-another. This eases using constellation categories, which unlike articles, are not redirected. You don't need to memorize what each and every article is named by what method to get the category. Natural disambiguation is also "X constellation", per how things are commonly written or heard in speech.
70.24.245.141 (
talk)
04:35, 15 March 2012 (UTC)—
70.24.245.141 (
talk) has made
few or no other edits outside this topic. reply
Oppose – The current name is clear in purpose and meaning. There is no superior benefit in the proposed rename. Regards,
RJH (
talk)
15:16, 15 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Rename agree that "constellation" is redundant, and support using (constellation) only if the majority of other constellations require a disambiguator. Otherwise make the parenthesized disambiguator a category redirect. RichFarmbrough,
18:10, 15 March 2012 (UTC).reply
Keep or Expand Nom 70... is right, there is a very consistent naming convention in
Category:Constellations where the categories end in constellation even though the lead articles do not. Open to nominating that whole tree for renaming or explicitly using this nomination as a trial with plans to nominate the rest later.
RevelationDirect (
talk)
08:52, 17 March 2012 (UTC)reply
Rename Sorry, was going from bottom of page and didn't see other noms. Category should match lead article unless there is a compelling reason not to. Don't see any compelling reason not to.
RevelationDirect (
talk)
08:55, 17 March 2012 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.