Portal article categories without the word "portal"
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale:Rename. Adding "portal" to these portal categories, and making other logical adjustments to match similar categories. The word "past" seems particularly unneeded, since when else would those items have been selected? (FYI, I made the R&B categories before I decided to try standardizing these.)--
Mike Selinker (
talk)
23:06, 23 October 2010 (UTC)reply
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Category:Spanish Civil War media
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Category:2026 FIFA World Cup
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Category:Songs of the Spanish Civil War
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Organized Labour portal
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Category:MTV Europe Music Awards winners
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So what's the criteria which awards are notable? MTV Europe Music Awards is much more notable than World Music Awards and the same notable as BRIT Award and Grammy Award (or even more notable than Brit Award).--
Spacejam2 (
talk)
07:46, 24 October 2010 (UTC)reply
This is not about whether the award is notable, but whether it should have a category. The guideline states that awards winners should generally be collected in lists, which makes sense because that way more information about when and why an award was given can be imparted. The guideline also states that "with a few exceptions" award categories shouldn't be created because they can lead to overcategorization, which means cluttering the bottom of a page at the expense of categories more significant for the person/better suited for the reader.
Hekerui (
talk)
09:06, 24 October 2010 (UTC)reply
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Category:MTV Video Vanguard Award winners
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Category:Yiddish
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Oppose because: (1)if it ain't broke, don't fix it. (2) There is already an article about the
Yiddish languagepurely as a language but that is only part of the total picture relating to Yiddish culture and way of life both religious and secular. (3) There is no "law" or policy on WP that every word in every category has "to match" for aesthetic reasons. (4) The word "Yiddish" is not just about a language it is also about a vast culture and way of life that has existed for over 1,000 years or more. (5) This category has withstood the test of time since 2004
[1] and all editors were happy with its name till now. (6) Yiddish is not "just" a "language" of modern Israel, and (7) as proof of this, see for example sub-category
Category:Yiddish folklore or
Category:Yiddish theatre, now is that also going to be renamed to "Yiddish language folklore" and "Yiddish language theatre" that would be absurd and sound so cumbersome, since that folklore and the theater encapsulates the cultural and historical world of the
Ashkenazi Jews of Eastern Europe from the Early Middle Ages until Modern Times for whom Yiddish was more than a mere language, it was also a symbol of their way life. (8) Therefore, this move is short-sighted and is reminiscent of the attempts to rename "Jews" to the redundant "Jewish people", see top of
Category talk:Jews, and should be turned down for the same reasons. Thank you,
IZAK (
talk)
02:06, 13 October 2010 (UTC)reply
Comment If this category is about a Yiddish culture, then it should be renamed to
Category:Yiddish culture to keep from the confusion of simply being named "Yiddish." That word either is an adjective (in which case, this should be renamed) or refers to the language (in which case, it is appropriate to follow the form of "Category:X language" per other such categories and the main article at
Yiddish language.) I'm completely fine with the split and sort strategy proposed above. —
Justin (koavf)❤
T☮
C☺
M☯
04:43, 14 October 2010 (UTC)reply
Hi Good Ol: (1) You are overlooking the fact that
Category:French culture and
Category:French language are both sub-categories of
Category:France, (2) unlike the
Jews of Eastern Europe who created a culture-within-a-culture/state-within-a-state especially when forced to live in
Ghettos and
Pale of Settlement by the Christian state authorities and had no "state" of their own, so that: (3) the word "Yiddish" meant to them not just a mere language but also, as it translates: "Yiddish" = "way of being a Yid (Jew)" or; (4) even literally it's an adverb or adjective describing the Yidden (German: Jude) the
Jews of first Western and then Central and Eastern Europe who made Yiddish into the vehicle for studying Torah, living a Torah-observant life, speaking a unique language, and therefore (5) acting "Jewish" which in fact is another translation of the word "Yiddish" that a Jew must be "Yiddish" in behavior and culturally. (6) This harps back to the connection and divide between Jews being BOTH an ethnicity (i.e.
Jews) AND members of a religion (i.e.
Judaism) so that both words (Jews and Judaism=Yidden and Yiddishkeit=Yiddish culture and language) are the English versions of the "Yid" in Yiddish, so that's why your comparison misses the mark by a long shot.
IZAK (
talk)
09:34, 20 October 2010 (UTC)reply
Response If no one else has any other take on this, then I guess I can separate language-specific articles into
Category:Yiddish language and others into
Category:Yiddish culture and then put them into a parent, but it really makes more sense to me for the latter to be the parent of the former. Surely, everything about the language is a subset of the broader culture, so there's no real need for a catch-all category. Is there something I'm missing here? —
Justin (koavf)❤
T☮
C☺
M☯
21:20, 20 October 2010 (UTC)reply
Hi Koav: Your "solution" is not a solution because you would be making a
culture a "sub-category" of a
language since they are different phenomena and notions. In this case facts show that that neither language nor culture supersede each other, so that having a co-equal parent category of
Category:Yiddish culture and language. Otherwise it can just as well be left alone as the "generic" original long-standing category of
Category:Yiddish,
June 2004, that denotes both the Yiddish language and Yiddish culture, and that actually translates, often as an abbreviation for
Yiddishkeit, as
Secular Jewish culture and/or
Judaism in English.
IZAK (
talk)
07:38, 21 October 2010 (UTC)reply
Not quite I am proposing the opposite: that language is a part of culture. Anything related to the Yiddish language is necessarily related to its culture, but not vice versa. —
Justin (koavf)❤
T☮
C☺
M☯
18:12, 21 October 2010 (UTC)reply
Commment - I am relisting this because while there seems to be consensus for a split, there is no consensus for the parent cat or actual naming. Please discuss.
Dana boomer (
talk)
15:41, 23 October 2010 (UTC)reply
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deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:KeepLocal
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale:Merge. Redundant category. It appears that 729 of the 732 current members of the category are added by transclusion of {{KeepLocal}}.
Anomie⚔23:22, 12 October 2010 (UTC)reply
Merge per nom.
East of Borschov makes a valid point, but I take this category to mean that at the time they were on commons a copy here was requested. If they later are removed from commons, that would not affect being a member of this category. Given the confusing nature of this, one wonders if simply using a template would be the better choice. But that can be considered after these are merged.
Vegaswikian (
talk)
19:54, 30 October 2010 (UTC)reply
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Irish regiments of the British Army
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deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Comment. I have restored changes by the proposer who had blanked this page. Otherwise a proper discussion is not possible.
Cjc13 (
talk)
13:27, 24 October 2010 (UTC)reply
Support. This is a difficult category because it combines former regiments from Ireland when it was linked to the UK and current regiments associated with Ulster which is still part of the UK. It is probably easiest to delete this category.
Cjc13 (
talk)
13:27, 24 October 2010 (UTC)reply
The current regiments relate to Northern Ireland rather than the Republic of Ireland. There are no similar categories for Welsh and Scottish regiments so this category does not seem necessary.
Cjc13 (
talk)
12:47, 2 November 2010 (UTC)reply
Technically the regiments represent Ireland as an island - the Irish Guards recruit from all Ireland as does the RIR - at the Queen Mothers funeral in 2002, 8 guardsmen including 2 from the
Republic of Ireland carried her coffin see also
Ian Malone. Looking at why the category was created it would appear that this category was created as a sub-category of
Category:Irish regiments to distinguish those regiments in service with the British Army as opposed to the current Southern Irish Army and other non-British Army regiments. All of Wales and Scotland are part of the UK hence such a distinction is not as important IMHO
Kernel Saunters (
talk)
13:15, 2 November 2010 (UTC)reply
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Municipally owned companies
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It doesn't have a wonderful sound to it, but it is very straightforward. I'm wondering though whether of or in would be the best preposition. __
meco (
talk)
18:56, 27 September 2010 (UTC)reply
Comment - I'm relisting this again. The consensus appears to be to move; however, as far as I can see, there is no consensus on which name to move it to.
Dana boomer (
talk)
15:31, 23 October 2010 (UTC)reply
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Category:Saint Martin (France)
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Category:Bertha Runkle
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deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale: Eponymous category for a writer, serving only to link her article, a category of novels that are already linked within the article and a couple of images that are already in the article. Delete as
WP:OCAT.
Bearcat (
talk)
05:56, 23 October 2010 (UTC)reply
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Category:Midway Islands
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Category:Elections in Taiwan (Republic of China)
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deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
comment Since this category only includes elections since the ROC moved to Taiwan and not during its years on the mainland, something in the name needs to specify this or the name should remain as is. The main article here is also badly and misleadingly misnamed.
Hmains (
talk)
17:49, 23 October 2010 (UTC)reply
comment And that one election for the whole of China (or however much was under Nationalist control at that point) was the only election held during its mainland history.
Hmains (
talk)
02:26, 26 October 2010 (UTC)reply
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Portal article categories without the word "portal"
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale:Rename. Adding "portal" to these portal categories, and making other logical adjustments to match similar categories. The word "past" seems particularly unneeded, since when else would those items have been selected? (FYI, I made the R&B categories before I decided to try standardizing these.)--
Mike Selinker (
talk)
23:06, 23 October 2010 (UTC)reply
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deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Spanish Civil War media
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deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
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Category:2026 FIFA World Cup
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Category:Songs of the Spanish Civil War
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Organized Labour portal
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deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
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Category:MTV Europe Music Awards winners
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deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
So what's the criteria which awards are notable? MTV Europe Music Awards is much more notable than World Music Awards and the same notable as BRIT Award and Grammy Award (or even more notable than Brit Award).--
Spacejam2 (
talk)
07:46, 24 October 2010 (UTC)reply
This is not about whether the award is notable, but whether it should have a category. The guideline states that awards winners should generally be collected in lists, which makes sense because that way more information about when and why an award was given can be imparted. The guideline also states that "with a few exceptions" award categories shouldn't be created because they can lead to overcategorization, which means cluttering the bottom of a page at the expense of categories more significant for the person/better suited for the reader.
Hekerui (
talk)
09:06, 24 October 2010 (UTC)reply
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Category:MTV Video Vanguard Award winners
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deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
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Category:Yiddish
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Oppose because: (1)if it ain't broke, don't fix it. (2) There is already an article about the
Yiddish languagepurely as a language but that is only part of the total picture relating to Yiddish culture and way of life both religious and secular. (3) There is no "law" or policy on WP that every word in every category has "to match" for aesthetic reasons. (4) The word "Yiddish" is not just about a language it is also about a vast culture and way of life that has existed for over 1,000 years or more. (5) This category has withstood the test of time since 2004
[1] and all editors were happy with its name till now. (6) Yiddish is not "just" a "language" of modern Israel, and (7) as proof of this, see for example sub-category
Category:Yiddish folklore or
Category:Yiddish theatre, now is that also going to be renamed to "Yiddish language folklore" and "Yiddish language theatre" that would be absurd and sound so cumbersome, since that folklore and the theater encapsulates the cultural and historical world of the
Ashkenazi Jews of Eastern Europe from the Early Middle Ages until Modern Times for whom Yiddish was more than a mere language, it was also a symbol of their way life. (8) Therefore, this move is short-sighted and is reminiscent of the attempts to rename "Jews" to the redundant "Jewish people", see top of
Category talk:Jews, and should be turned down for the same reasons. Thank you,
IZAK (
talk)
02:06, 13 October 2010 (UTC)reply
Comment If this category is about a Yiddish culture, then it should be renamed to
Category:Yiddish culture to keep from the confusion of simply being named "Yiddish." That word either is an adjective (in which case, this should be renamed) or refers to the language (in which case, it is appropriate to follow the form of "Category:X language" per other such categories and the main article at
Yiddish language.) I'm completely fine with the split and sort strategy proposed above. —
Justin (koavf)❤
T☮
C☺
M☯
04:43, 14 October 2010 (UTC)reply
Hi Good Ol: (1) You are overlooking the fact that
Category:French culture and
Category:French language are both sub-categories of
Category:France, (2) unlike the
Jews of Eastern Europe who created a culture-within-a-culture/state-within-a-state especially when forced to live in
Ghettos and
Pale of Settlement by the Christian state authorities and had no "state" of their own, so that: (3) the word "Yiddish" meant to them not just a mere language but also, as it translates: "Yiddish" = "way of being a Yid (Jew)" or; (4) even literally it's an adverb or adjective describing the Yidden (German: Jude) the
Jews of first Western and then Central and Eastern Europe who made Yiddish into the vehicle for studying Torah, living a Torah-observant life, speaking a unique language, and therefore (5) acting "Jewish" which in fact is another translation of the word "Yiddish" that a Jew must be "Yiddish" in behavior and culturally. (6) This harps back to the connection and divide between Jews being BOTH an ethnicity (i.e.
Jews) AND members of a religion (i.e.
Judaism) so that both words (Jews and Judaism=Yidden and Yiddishkeit=Yiddish culture and language) are the English versions of the "Yid" in Yiddish, so that's why your comparison misses the mark by a long shot.
IZAK (
talk)
09:34, 20 October 2010 (UTC)reply
Response If no one else has any other take on this, then I guess I can separate language-specific articles into
Category:Yiddish language and others into
Category:Yiddish culture and then put them into a parent, but it really makes more sense to me for the latter to be the parent of the former. Surely, everything about the language is a subset of the broader culture, so there's no real need for a catch-all category. Is there something I'm missing here? —
Justin (koavf)❤
T☮
C☺
M☯
21:20, 20 October 2010 (UTC)reply
Hi Koav: Your "solution" is not a solution because you would be making a
culture a "sub-category" of a
language since they are different phenomena and notions. In this case facts show that that neither language nor culture supersede each other, so that having a co-equal parent category of
Category:Yiddish culture and language. Otherwise it can just as well be left alone as the "generic" original long-standing category of
Category:Yiddish,
June 2004, that denotes both the Yiddish language and Yiddish culture, and that actually translates, often as an abbreviation for
Yiddishkeit, as
Secular Jewish culture and/or
Judaism in English.
IZAK (
talk)
07:38, 21 October 2010 (UTC)reply
Not quite I am proposing the opposite: that language is a part of culture. Anything related to the Yiddish language is necessarily related to its culture, but not vice versa. —
Justin (koavf)❤
T☮
C☺
M☯
18:12, 21 October 2010 (UTC)reply
Commment - I am relisting this because while there seems to be consensus for a split, there is no consensus for the parent cat or actual naming. Please discuss.
Dana boomer (
talk)
15:41, 23 October 2010 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:KeepLocal
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale:Merge. Redundant category. It appears that 729 of the 732 current members of the category are added by transclusion of {{KeepLocal}}.
Anomie⚔23:22, 12 October 2010 (UTC)reply
Merge per nom.
East of Borschov makes a valid point, but I take this category to mean that at the time they were on commons a copy here was requested. If they later are removed from commons, that would not affect being a member of this category. Given the confusing nature of this, one wonders if simply using a template would be the better choice. But that can be considered after these are merged.
Vegaswikian (
talk)
19:54, 30 October 2010 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
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Irish regiments of the British Army
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Comment. I have restored changes by the proposer who had blanked this page. Otherwise a proper discussion is not possible.
Cjc13 (
talk)
13:27, 24 October 2010 (UTC)reply
Support. This is a difficult category because it combines former regiments from Ireland when it was linked to the UK and current regiments associated with Ulster which is still part of the UK. It is probably easiest to delete this category.
Cjc13 (
talk)
13:27, 24 October 2010 (UTC)reply
The current regiments relate to Northern Ireland rather than the Republic of Ireland. There are no similar categories for Welsh and Scottish regiments so this category does not seem necessary.
Cjc13 (
talk)
12:47, 2 November 2010 (UTC)reply
Technically the regiments represent Ireland as an island - the Irish Guards recruit from all Ireland as does the RIR - at the Queen Mothers funeral in 2002, 8 guardsmen including 2 from the
Republic of Ireland carried her coffin see also
Ian Malone. Looking at why the category was created it would appear that this category was created as a sub-category of
Category:Irish regiments to distinguish those regiments in service with the British Army as opposed to the current Southern Irish Army and other non-British Army regiments. All of Wales and Scotland are part of the UK hence such a distinction is not as important IMHO
Kernel Saunters (
talk)
13:15, 2 November 2010 (UTC)reply
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Municipally owned companies
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deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
It doesn't have a wonderful sound to it, but it is very straightforward. I'm wondering though whether of or in would be the best preposition. __
meco (
talk)
18:56, 27 September 2010 (UTC)reply
Comment - I'm relisting this again. The consensus appears to be to move; however, as far as I can see, there is no consensus on which name to move it to.
Dana boomer (
talk)
15:31, 23 October 2010 (UTC)reply
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deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Saint Martin (France)
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deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
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Category:Bertha Runkle
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Nominator's rationale: Eponymous category for a writer, serving only to link her article, a category of novels that are already linked within the article and a couple of images that are already in the article. Delete as
WP:OCAT.
Bearcat (
talk)
05:56, 23 October 2010 (UTC)reply
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Category:Midway Islands
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Category:Elections in Taiwan (Republic of China)
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comment Since this category only includes elections since the ROC moved to Taiwan and not during its years on the mainland, something in the name needs to specify this or the name should remain as is. The main article here is also badly and misleadingly misnamed.
Hmains (
talk)
17:49, 23 October 2010 (UTC)reply
comment And that one election for the whole of China (or however much was under Nationalist control at that point) was the only election held during its mainland history.
Hmains (
talk)
02:26, 26 October 2010 (UTC)reply
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