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Keep and rename An operating system based on a
microkernel is a completely different thing from a microkernel itself. One is built upon the other, and the same microkernel can support different operating systems. A better name however would be "Microkernel-based operating systems" --
Cyclopia (
talk)
14:25, 11 November 2008 (UTC)reply
There is only one because
User:Warren deleted all OSs belonging to the category:
GNU/Hurd (that I restored just now),
Singularity and
MINIX (these ones I'm checking to see if it makes sense to put them there). Technically all microkernel-based OSs should belong there, so yes, there is a lot of space for growth. --
Cyclopia (
talk)
15:45, 11 November 2008 (UTC)reply
I scanned a bit of OS articles and I added some article to the category (basically all
Mach microkernel based OSs and a couple of others). I think this could settle the redundancy and growth issues. --
Cyclopia (
talk)
11:17, 12 November 2008 (UTC)reply
But why would we have a category like this? This is the sort of thing we do with list articles, not categories. The fact that a complete operating system is based on a microkernel is a miniscule detail on the grand scale of things. Should we also have categories for "Operating systems that run in protected mode"? "Operating systems with a hardware abstraction layer"? "Operating systems that include a graphical user interface"?
This category was made by a user who made no other contributions, at all, to the encyclopedia, so it's not like there was a lot of understanding of Wikipedia's categorization guidelines.
Thanks a lot for pointing me at the
WP:OC#ARBITRARY page. However I disagree with the relevance of such policy in the case of this category. Being based on a microkernel or being monolithic can be irrelevant on the "grand scale of things", but it is a fundamental technological class of the design and functioning of an OS (more fundamental than the other potential examples of categories you tossed in). It compares with, for example
Category:Object-oriented programming languages. Plus, I want again to stress that the category is not redundant with parent category, whatever the opinion is on the opportunity of this category - different OSs can share the same microkernel, and a microkernel by itself is not an (useful) OS. --
Cyclopia (
talk)
17:36, 11 November 2008 (UTC)reply
So basically what you're saying is, "I don't give a shit what established categorization practice is; I'm going to argue in favour of a category made by someone who didn't understand categorization!" Nice. Do you do that often? I hope not... please study
Wikipedia:Overcategorization some more -- we're trying to follow one set of organization principles here.
I am all for following (sensible) rules. I just think that the rule you cited does not apply here. Please answer rationally to my points instead of resorting to personal attacks. Who did the category maybe did "understand categorization", maybe didn't: but in my opinion got this category right. --
Cyclopia (
talk)
01:29, 12 November 2008 (UTC)reply
The distinction is very blurry here.
GNU Hurd is a collection of so-called "servers" (not to be confounded with a web server or something like that) that establish an operating system on top of a microkernel (currently the Mach microkernel; but the Hurd has been ported on other microkernels like L4). Servers work in
user space, so the distinction between what is part of the kernel and part of the operating system userland is mostly philosophical. However this does not change the point about the existence of this category: if (in another discussion) we decide that
GNU Hurd does not belong to this category, articles like
Debian GNU Hurd and
GNU surely do, for example. --
Cyclopia (
talk)
01:29, 12 November 2008 (UTC)reply
Remember to
assume good faith, Warren. As I understand Cyclopia's point, he's saying that WP:OC concerns are not relevant here because being based on a microkernel is a defining feature of an OS, that it's not an arbitrary characteristic to zoom in on. So that's the issue to discuss. No one's ignoring established guidelines, it's just a disagreement at this time of how to apply them to this category.
Postdlf (
talk)
20:29, 11 November 2008 (UTC)reply
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Category:Honorary doctors of Anglia Ruskin University
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Delete per nom, for sure. However, I'm less certain about listifying. It's not uncommon to include a list of such honors in bio articles, but I'm not sure there's any real value in compiling such lists for colleges and universities.
Cgingold (
talk)
23:14, 10 November 2008 (UTC)reply
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Category:Fictional characters in comics who use magic
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No, that's not the intention. The problem is that many fictional characters in animation also are in comics, and vice-versa. This just makes it easier to categorise the "in-universe" features/abilities/powers of such characters together. And if you look in
Category:Animated characters, only 2 categories maybe would meet in-universe criteria: Human, and Child. And I'm not sure I would even call either of those a "feature" of a character. This is solely about trying to make the
Category:Fictional characters broad in-universe cats more easily navigable, by merging in-universe "in animation" information from the broad cat, to a more specific "in comics and animation". And this is not unlike the current situation with anime and manga. This is just intended as an aid to navigation. And as I noted in the nom, this is already something done for lists.
For example, in this specific case, a reader is more likely to look for a magic-using character in animation in the target cat, than in the parent:
Category:Fictional characters who use magic. Note also that there aren't many examples in comics and animation separately (especially if we exclude the Marvel and DC examples, which are already subcatted). -
jc3705:17, 11 November 2008 (UTC)reply
If you think this is best, why don't we discuss doing it from the top down: starting with the parent categories and working our way down to the sub- and sub-sub-categories (not the other way around). Merging one comics characters category with one animated characters category doesn't make sense to me. I oppose.--
Nohansen (
talk)
14:36, 12 November 2008 (UTC)reply
That sounds like it makes sense if you haven't actually looked at the categories in question. (Which I am guessing, based upon your comments, you haven't.) This category is a unique example. -
jc3700:07, 13 November 2008 (UTC)reply
Oppose - I think the anime/manga approach is the wrong one as it lumps together characters who don't might only appear in one or the other. I'd prefer them to be separately categorised unless it can be shown that 100% of comic characters who use magic also appear in animation. It may be that in manga/anime this could be said to be the case - it isn't in comics. It strikes me as being a poor solution to a problem that doesn't seem to exist. (
Emperor (
talk)
20:01, 14 November 2008 (UTC))reply
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Category:Commandants of the Marine Corps
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Category:People convicted of murder by Arkansas
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Oppose. As the creator, I can say that
Postdlf has set out my intentions perfectly. The category refers to those convicted by a legal jurisdiction, not those convicted by a court located in a geographic location. The former is defining, the latter much less so.
Good Ol’factory(talk)22:28, 10 November 2008 (UTC)reply
oppose' No change is warranted. The meaning of the category name and all its sister categories is clear, purposeful, and defining.
Hmains (
talk)
03:21, 11 November 2008 (UTC)reply
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Category:Prisons in Somerset
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Category:Quizbowl
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Nominator's rationale:Ugh - something needs to be done with this category but I don't have the expertise to figure out precisely what. Currently it's capturing everything from competitions which apparently have some official affiliation with organizations which may or may not be actual governing bodies (such as
PACE) to TV game shows that have a "quizbowl-like" format but may have no other affiliation with the sport/competition to international competitions which do not appear to have anything at all to do with "quizbowl". I'm at a loss as to what combination of actions may be needed to establish some kind of organizational structure.
Otto4711 (
talk)
06:16, 30 October 2008 (UTC)reply
Keep / Consider Rename I know what this category is intending to capture, but I agree with the nominator that I'm not sure that the current title is appropriate. I don't know if
Quizbowl is trademarked or operated in any central structure, but even if this is the right title for an article I don't think it should be the category title. Nothing hits me as "the" correct title, but variants of the ones proposed such as
Category:Quiz shows for students,
Category:Student quiz shows,
Category:Student quiz shows and competitions might be more generically appropriate for a category. I offer this as a toss up for 10 points, and ask the judges to consider if these answers are correct.
Alansohn (
talk)
15:04, 31 October 2008 (UTC)reply
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Category:Kid Rock
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Comment - While I don't mean this to be an
WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS comment, in looking over
Category:Categories named after musicians, you've just described nearly every category I randomly looked at. And there were some which don't even have that many. So is the intention to delete every example? Or just singling this one out? I ask also because according to
WP:OC#SMALL, it doesn't apply to a "scheme", and this could conceivably fall under that description. -
jc3709:30, 29 October 2008 (UTC)reply
Delete - per any number of precedents and prior discussions. No indication that the compromise/consensus that led to several hundred of these categories being deleted over the past couple of years has changed. When most of these eponymous musician categories come to CFD they end up deleted because there is simply not the material to warrant it. Anyone interested in Kid Rock is going to start at
Kid Rock and from there can access any of dozens of links throughout the article to get to a complete discography article, links to singles, films, tours, etc. Category does not function as a navigational hub.
Otto4711 (
talk)
11:59, 29 October 2008 (UTC)reply
I make no general statement about the role or function of categories. My remarks are regarding this particular category and others substantially identical to it.
Otto4711 (
talk)
20:48, 29 October 2008 (UTC)reply
Delete and Comment - In all cases like this where there are two closely related sub-categories, but not enough contents to warrant having a super-category, the sub-cats should be linked to one another horizontally (using {{
CatRel}}). This should be standard practice, imo.
Cgingold (
talk)
09:22, 10 November 2008 (UTC)reply
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Category:Star Trek regions of space
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Keep. Not all concepts associated with a sci-fi series are too overly minute. in this case, the Star trek delineation of regions of space has achieved iconic status...indeed, it's the only sci-fi series whose cartographic process has acheieved such overall literary prominence, and entering into other sci-fi works, films and games, such as "Neutral Zone", etc etc. --
Steve, Sm8900 (
talk)
15:20, 10 November 2008 (UTC)reply
Delete I would be more than supportive of this subject as a category structure, but as of right now, this is
List of Star Trek regions of space and redirects to it, plus one other article. If there is any evidence that this can be expanded further in the near future, just let us know what the
stardate is of the expected completion. Other than that, this appears to be rather
WP:OC#Narrow.
Alansohn (
talk)
18:18, 10 November 2008 (UTC)reply
Delete -
small category with little likelihood of expansion with articles that meet
WP:WAF or
WP:GNG. I would note that the concept of a neutral zone between adversarial sovereignties is hardly original to Star Trek.
Otto4711 (
talk)
01:05, 11 November 2008 (UTC)reply
As the editor who merged the articles into the list: Fair enough. The two articles are now in both the parent categories so there's no need to upmerge, and the redirects can be decategorised. Delete. -
Fayenatic(talk)08:26, 12 November 2008 (UTC)reply
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Obama Administration categories
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Nominator's rationale: Delete both as premature (without prejudice to their recreation after Jan. 20, 2009). There is not yet an Obama Administration, or Cabinet, and won't be until he is sworn in. Though we do have reliable announcements as to whom he intends to hire for a couple posts, these obviously can change over the next two months, and the existence of these categories until then might also tend towards becoming a dumping ground for all targets of media speculation and rumors. In the meantime, confirmed offers and acceptances, and even notable media speculation, can still be noted in
Presidential transition of Barack Obama, and in the articles of the individuals.
Postdlf (
talk)
00:21, 10 November 2008 (UTC)reply
Keep both - I understand your concerns re potential problems, but I think this CFD is premature. If the speculated problems actually materialize we can deal with it at that time.
Cgingold (
talk)
03:03, 10 November 2008 (UTC)reply
The potential problems were additional reasons for deletion, not the primary one, which is that there is not yet an Obama administration or a cabinet. So these positions are not yet in place.
Postdlf (
talk)
03:14, 10 November 2008 (UTC)reply
Being named is tantamount to having the position. It is not likely that anyone would be rejected by the senate. If the category is deleted, it will be recreated again in the near future. Is it worth the extra effort?
Vegaswikian (
talk)
06:17, 10 November 2008 (UTC)reply
We have hundreds (1000s?) of categories for events that are years in the future -- this is just around the corner. And the two people who are in the Cabinet cat don't need Senate approval. I don't see a real problem here -- may as well just leave it. Notified creator with {{
subst:cfd-notify}}Cgingold (
talk) 06:53, November 9, 2008 UTC
Keep both--in this case, this is simply way to maximize standardization of Wikipedia, and to minimize any vagueness or lack of clarity. similar categories already exist for Pres Clinton and pres. Bush #43. thanks. --
Steve, Sm8900 (
talk)
14:50, 10 November 2008 (UTC)reply
Keep both If we can announce Obama as president, we can anticipate his administration. It hardly seems too
WP:CRYSTAL ballsy to anticipate that as President, Mr. Obama will have cabinet members and other personnel serving him. I have no objection to including nominees in the personnel or cabinet categories even before the Senate has approved any individuals requiring its approval.
Alansohn (
talk)
18:22, 10 November 2008 (UTC)reply
Keep both -- Yes, strictly it is premature, but (unless Obama dies or resigns) it is inevitable that the categores will exist. It is pointless to set up an "Obama transition team" category or a "potential cabinet members" category only to have to rename them in 2 months time.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
23:37, 15 November 2008 (UTC)reply
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Keep and rename An operating system based on a
microkernel is a completely different thing from a microkernel itself. One is built upon the other, and the same microkernel can support different operating systems. A better name however would be "Microkernel-based operating systems" --
Cyclopia (
talk)
14:25, 11 November 2008 (UTC)reply
There is only one because
User:Warren deleted all OSs belonging to the category:
GNU/Hurd (that I restored just now),
Singularity and
MINIX (these ones I'm checking to see if it makes sense to put them there). Technically all microkernel-based OSs should belong there, so yes, there is a lot of space for growth. --
Cyclopia (
talk)
15:45, 11 November 2008 (UTC)reply
I scanned a bit of OS articles and I added some article to the category (basically all
Mach microkernel based OSs and a couple of others). I think this could settle the redundancy and growth issues. --
Cyclopia (
talk)
11:17, 12 November 2008 (UTC)reply
But why would we have a category like this? This is the sort of thing we do with list articles, not categories. The fact that a complete operating system is based on a microkernel is a miniscule detail on the grand scale of things. Should we also have categories for "Operating systems that run in protected mode"? "Operating systems with a hardware abstraction layer"? "Operating systems that include a graphical user interface"?
This category was made by a user who made no other contributions, at all, to the encyclopedia, so it's not like there was a lot of understanding of Wikipedia's categorization guidelines.
Thanks a lot for pointing me at the
WP:OC#ARBITRARY page. However I disagree with the relevance of such policy in the case of this category. Being based on a microkernel or being monolithic can be irrelevant on the "grand scale of things", but it is a fundamental technological class of the design and functioning of an OS (more fundamental than the other potential examples of categories you tossed in). It compares with, for example
Category:Object-oriented programming languages. Plus, I want again to stress that the category is not redundant with parent category, whatever the opinion is on the opportunity of this category - different OSs can share the same microkernel, and a microkernel by itself is not an (useful) OS. --
Cyclopia (
talk)
17:36, 11 November 2008 (UTC)reply
So basically what you're saying is, "I don't give a shit what established categorization practice is; I'm going to argue in favour of a category made by someone who didn't understand categorization!" Nice. Do you do that often? I hope not... please study
Wikipedia:Overcategorization some more -- we're trying to follow one set of organization principles here.
I am all for following (sensible) rules. I just think that the rule you cited does not apply here. Please answer rationally to my points instead of resorting to personal attacks. Who did the category maybe did "understand categorization", maybe didn't: but in my opinion got this category right. --
Cyclopia (
talk)
01:29, 12 November 2008 (UTC)reply
The distinction is very blurry here.
GNU Hurd is a collection of so-called "servers" (not to be confounded with a web server or something like that) that establish an operating system on top of a microkernel (currently the Mach microkernel; but the Hurd has been ported on other microkernels like L4). Servers work in
user space, so the distinction between what is part of the kernel and part of the operating system userland is mostly philosophical. However this does not change the point about the existence of this category: if (in another discussion) we decide that
GNU Hurd does not belong to this category, articles like
Debian GNU Hurd and
GNU surely do, for example. --
Cyclopia (
talk)
01:29, 12 November 2008 (UTC)reply
Remember to
assume good faith, Warren. As I understand Cyclopia's point, he's saying that WP:OC concerns are not relevant here because being based on a microkernel is a defining feature of an OS, that it's not an arbitrary characteristic to zoom in on. So that's the issue to discuss. No one's ignoring established guidelines, it's just a disagreement at this time of how to apply them to this category.
Postdlf (
talk)
20:29, 11 November 2008 (UTC)reply
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Category:Honorary doctors of Anglia Ruskin University
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Delete per nom, for sure. However, I'm less certain about listifying. It's not uncommon to include a list of such honors in bio articles, but I'm not sure there's any real value in compiling such lists for colleges and universities.
Cgingold (
talk)
23:14, 10 November 2008 (UTC)reply
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Category:Fictional characters in comics who use magic
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No, that's not the intention. The problem is that many fictional characters in animation also are in comics, and vice-versa. This just makes it easier to categorise the "in-universe" features/abilities/powers of such characters together. And if you look in
Category:Animated characters, only 2 categories maybe would meet in-universe criteria: Human, and Child. And I'm not sure I would even call either of those a "feature" of a character. This is solely about trying to make the
Category:Fictional characters broad in-universe cats more easily navigable, by merging in-universe "in animation" information from the broad cat, to a more specific "in comics and animation". And this is not unlike the current situation with anime and manga. This is just intended as an aid to navigation. And as I noted in the nom, this is already something done for lists.
For example, in this specific case, a reader is more likely to look for a magic-using character in animation in the target cat, than in the parent:
Category:Fictional characters who use magic. Note also that there aren't many examples in comics and animation separately (especially if we exclude the Marvel and DC examples, which are already subcatted). -
jc3705:17, 11 November 2008 (UTC)reply
If you think this is best, why don't we discuss doing it from the top down: starting with the parent categories and working our way down to the sub- and sub-sub-categories (not the other way around). Merging one comics characters category with one animated characters category doesn't make sense to me. I oppose.--
Nohansen (
talk)
14:36, 12 November 2008 (UTC)reply
That sounds like it makes sense if you haven't actually looked at the categories in question. (Which I am guessing, based upon your comments, you haven't.) This category is a unique example. -
jc3700:07, 13 November 2008 (UTC)reply
Oppose - I think the anime/manga approach is the wrong one as it lumps together characters who don't might only appear in one or the other. I'd prefer them to be separately categorised unless it can be shown that 100% of comic characters who use magic also appear in animation. It may be that in manga/anime this could be said to be the case - it isn't in comics. It strikes me as being a poor solution to a problem that doesn't seem to exist. (
Emperor (
talk)
20:01, 14 November 2008 (UTC))reply
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Category:Commandants of the Marine Corps
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Category:People convicted of murder by Arkansas
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Oppose. As the creator, I can say that
Postdlf has set out my intentions perfectly. The category refers to those convicted by a legal jurisdiction, not those convicted by a court located in a geographic location. The former is defining, the latter much less so.
Good Ol’factory(talk)22:28, 10 November 2008 (UTC)reply
oppose' No change is warranted. The meaning of the category name and all its sister categories is clear, purposeful, and defining.
Hmains (
talk)
03:21, 11 November 2008 (UTC)reply
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Category:Prisons in Somerset
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deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
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Category:Quizbowl
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Nominator's rationale:Ugh - something needs to be done with this category but I don't have the expertise to figure out precisely what. Currently it's capturing everything from competitions which apparently have some official affiliation with organizations which may or may not be actual governing bodies (such as
PACE) to TV game shows that have a "quizbowl-like" format but may have no other affiliation with the sport/competition to international competitions which do not appear to have anything at all to do with "quizbowl". I'm at a loss as to what combination of actions may be needed to establish some kind of organizational structure.
Otto4711 (
talk)
06:16, 30 October 2008 (UTC)reply
Keep / Consider Rename I know what this category is intending to capture, but I agree with the nominator that I'm not sure that the current title is appropriate. I don't know if
Quizbowl is trademarked or operated in any central structure, but even if this is the right title for an article I don't think it should be the category title. Nothing hits me as "the" correct title, but variants of the ones proposed such as
Category:Quiz shows for students,
Category:Student quiz shows,
Category:Student quiz shows and competitions might be more generically appropriate for a category. I offer this as a toss up for 10 points, and ask the judges to consider if these answers are correct.
Alansohn (
talk)
15:04, 31 October 2008 (UTC)reply
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Category:Kid Rock
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Comment - While I don't mean this to be an
WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS comment, in looking over
Category:Categories named after musicians, you've just described nearly every category I randomly looked at. And there were some which don't even have that many. So is the intention to delete every example? Or just singling this one out? I ask also because according to
WP:OC#SMALL, it doesn't apply to a "scheme", and this could conceivably fall under that description. -
jc3709:30, 29 October 2008 (UTC)reply
Delete - per any number of precedents and prior discussions. No indication that the compromise/consensus that led to several hundred of these categories being deleted over the past couple of years has changed. When most of these eponymous musician categories come to CFD they end up deleted because there is simply not the material to warrant it. Anyone interested in Kid Rock is going to start at
Kid Rock and from there can access any of dozens of links throughout the article to get to a complete discography article, links to singles, films, tours, etc. Category does not function as a navigational hub.
Otto4711 (
talk)
11:59, 29 October 2008 (UTC)reply
I make no general statement about the role or function of categories. My remarks are regarding this particular category and others substantially identical to it.
Otto4711 (
talk)
20:48, 29 October 2008 (UTC)reply
Delete and Comment - In all cases like this where there are two closely related sub-categories, but not enough contents to warrant having a super-category, the sub-cats should be linked to one another horizontally (using {{
CatRel}}). This should be standard practice, imo.
Cgingold (
talk)
09:22, 10 November 2008 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Star Trek regions of space
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Keep. Not all concepts associated with a sci-fi series are too overly minute. in this case, the Star trek delineation of regions of space has achieved iconic status...indeed, it's the only sci-fi series whose cartographic process has acheieved such overall literary prominence, and entering into other sci-fi works, films and games, such as "Neutral Zone", etc etc. --
Steve, Sm8900 (
talk)
15:20, 10 November 2008 (UTC)reply
Delete I would be more than supportive of this subject as a category structure, but as of right now, this is
List of Star Trek regions of space and redirects to it, plus one other article. If there is any evidence that this can be expanded further in the near future, just let us know what the
stardate is of the expected completion. Other than that, this appears to be rather
WP:OC#Narrow.
Alansohn (
talk)
18:18, 10 November 2008 (UTC)reply
Delete -
small category with little likelihood of expansion with articles that meet
WP:WAF or
WP:GNG. I would note that the concept of a neutral zone between adversarial sovereignties is hardly original to Star Trek.
Otto4711 (
talk)
01:05, 11 November 2008 (UTC)reply
As the editor who merged the articles into the list: Fair enough. The two articles are now in both the parent categories so there's no need to upmerge, and the redirects can be decategorised. Delete. -
Fayenatic(talk)08:26, 12 November 2008 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Obama Administration categories
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale: Delete both as premature (without prejudice to their recreation after Jan. 20, 2009). There is not yet an Obama Administration, or Cabinet, and won't be until he is sworn in. Though we do have reliable announcements as to whom he intends to hire for a couple posts, these obviously can change over the next two months, and the existence of these categories until then might also tend towards becoming a dumping ground for all targets of media speculation and rumors. In the meantime, confirmed offers and acceptances, and even notable media speculation, can still be noted in
Presidential transition of Barack Obama, and in the articles of the individuals.
Postdlf (
talk)
00:21, 10 November 2008 (UTC)reply
Keep both - I understand your concerns re potential problems, but I think this CFD is premature. If the speculated problems actually materialize we can deal with it at that time.
Cgingold (
talk)
03:03, 10 November 2008 (UTC)reply
The potential problems were additional reasons for deletion, not the primary one, which is that there is not yet an Obama administration or a cabinet. So these positions are not yet in place.
Postdlf (
talk)
03:14, 10 November 2008 (UTC)reply
Being named is tantamount to having the position. It is not likely that anyone would be rejected by the senate. If the category is deleted, it will be recreated again in the near future. Is it worth the extra effort?
Vegaswikian (
talk)
06:17, 10 November 2008 (UTC)reply
We have hundreds (1000s?) of categories for events that are years in the future -- this is just around the corner. And the two people who are in the Cabinet cat don't need Senate approval. I don't see a real problem here -- may as well just leave it. Notified creator with {{
subst:cfd-notify}}Cgingold (
talk) 06:53, November 9, 2008 UTC
Keep both--in this case, this is simply way to maximize standardization of Wikipedia, and to minimize any vagueness or lack of clarity. similar categories already exist for Pres Clinton and pres. Bush #43. thanks. --
Steve, Sm8900 (
talk)
14:50, 10 November 2008 (UTC)reply
Keep both If we can announce Obama as president, we can anticipate his administration. It hardly seems too
WP:CRYSTAL ballsy to anticipate that as President, Mr. Obama will have cabinet members and other personnel serving him. I have no objection to including nominees in the personnel or cabinet categories even before the Senate has approved any individuals requiring its approval.
Alansohn (
talk)
18:22, 10 November 2008 (UTC)reply
Keep both -- Yes, strictly it is premature, but (unless Obama dies or resigns) it is inevitable that the categores will exist. It is pointless to set up an "Obama transition team" category or a "potential cabinet members" category only to have to rename them in 2 months time.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
23:37, 15 November 2008 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.