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November 21

Category:Dark Lords

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The result of the debate was delete (I was about to listify on the Dark Lord article, but found it was recently deleted). -- RobertG ♬ talk 09:27, 29 November 2006 (UTC) reply

Category:Dark Lords ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

  • Delete - The term "Dark Lords" is not being used to decribe people from a particular work of fiction but is instead being used to describe any evil character from any science fiction or fantasy series. The term "Dark Lords" is not clearly defined, and it suffers from POV problems, as determining who qualifies as a "dark lord" is very subjective. I recommend deleting the category. George J. Bendo 22:48, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • The Dark Lord page gives an unclear set of criteria for defining a "Dark Lord". Some of the criteria ("powerful villian") are subjective and suffer from POV problems. Moreover, the article does not cite its references. Maybe the page should be deleted. George J. Bendo 13:01, 22 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Listify, as a category it just gets filled with "evil" characters (much like the personifications of evil cat that got deleted a while back), but could be a useful list. TheJoust 02:10, 24 November 2006 (UTC) reply

Maybe we should be more specific about how one qualifies as a Dark Lord. In my experience a Dark Lord is an evil dictator with sinister henchman and supernatural powers which he or she uses for the accumulation of power at the expense of others. As a category it is just as useful as the Evil Geniuses character. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.145.241.39 ( talk • contribs)

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Category:Female dark lords

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The result of the debate was delete, and per above "Dark Lords" discussion. -- RobertG ♬ talk 09:21, 29 November 2006 (UTC) reply

Category:Female dark lords ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
You are not allowed to distinguish by gender. Upmerge. ~ Zythe Talk to me! 17:35, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

  • You are allowed to distinguish by gender, if the distinction is a legitimate one. The gender-based classifiaction is a guideline. It is not a policy. Nominating categories with a reason like "you are not allowed to distinguish by gender" demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of the sex classification guideline. That being said, this is not IMHO a legitimate sex-based classification, so Upmerge. Otto4711 22:49, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply
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Sun Microsystems category

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The result of the debate was rename. -- RobertG ♬ talk 09:28, 29 November 2006 (UTC) reply

all rename Sun Microsystems products.-- Wii WIi wuu 22:38, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

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CNN category

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The result of the debate was rename (I'll leave a {{ category redirect}} for the Cable News Network category). -- RobertG ♬ talk 09:31, 29 November 2006 (UTC) reply

all rename info page name is CNN.-- Wii WIi wuu 22:38, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

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Category:SS

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The result of the debate was no consensus. the wub "?!" 10:15, 7 December 2006 (UTC) reply

rename info page name is Schutzstaffel.-- Wii WIi wuu 22:38, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

  • We're an encyclopedia, and we should use actual names as opposed to common names that may be incorrect. For instance, Napoleon is a redirect to the man's actual name. The category can have a header that explains the term and links to an article, like many cats do. ( Radiant) 13:54, 22 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Oppose There is the same amount to be said for this idea as there is to be said for moving Nazi Party to Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei. Hanbrook 14:17, 22 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Rename. Precision is good. Also, the association of the term "SS" is becoming less common and less strongly associated with the mid-20th century German paramilitaries as time carries on. Also, since we're apparently okay with using German names for most of the articles in the category, e.g. SS-Totenkopfverbände, Kameradenwerk, Gestapo, the category in which they are contained can also be a German name. -/- Warren 08:16, 24 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Oppose per nom and others above and since categories cannot have re-directs, such renaming would be unhelpful to the casual WP user Hmains 20:45, 24 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Rename to increase clarity. "SS" is not really good enough, it's not like "Nazi" as there are many meanings. 132.205.45.206 01:39, 25 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Strong Oppose - SS is the common term in English Patstuart (talk) (contribs) 11:40, 1 December 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Rename It can be marked with {{ Category redirect}}. See here for a long list of other meanings. Stainless steel? Social science? Screen saver? Self-service? Sample size? The current use may be one of the more common meanings but it's by no means the only common one. -- HKMarks( T/ C) 17:16, 4 December 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Neutral Whilst I'd normally agree with renaming a category in line with the main article, I think there is a serious problem with the main article name. Schutzstaffel is not a word I can recall ever hearing despite having studied Nazi Germany several times. Indeed looking in the indexes of the few books on Nazi Germany on my shelves they either have the entry under "SS" or don't list it at all. There's a case that only the acronym rather than the word itself has been incorporated into English. (And we also have other articles at the acronyms rather than the full name when the form is overwhelming better known - e.g. NASA.) As for the comments about disambiguation I like the idea that other uses of "SS" should force the naming to "Schutzstaffel" - there are disambiguation tags and something like "SS (Nazi)" would be far more recognisable. Timrollpickering 14:01, 5 December 2006 (UTC) reply
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Queen category

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The result of the debate was rename all. -- RobertG ♬ talk 12:49, 4 December 2006 (UTC) reply

All rename' as info page name is a " Queen (band)".-- Lyjyuwin 20:24, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

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Category:Fictional Black African-American DC animated Superheroes with the power to manipulate electricity

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The result of the debate was delete. Mairi 04:41, 29 November 2006 (UTC) reply

Delete, seems a bit narrow to me. -- ProveIt (talk) 19:47, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply
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Category:Clumsy fictional characters

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The result of the debate was delete. -- RobertG ♬ talk 09:32, 29 November 2006 (UTC) reply

Category:Clumsy fictional characters ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Trivial, non-defining characteristic. ~ Zythe Talk to me! 17:45, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

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Category:California tribes to Category:Native American tribes in California

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The result of the debate was rename. -- RobertG ♬ talk 09:33, 29 November 2006 (UTC) reply

Proposing name change to match this category's peers at Category:Native American tribes by state. - TexasAndroid 17:00, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

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Category:Virginia tribes to Category:Native American tribes in Virginia

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The result of the debate was rename. -- RobertG ♬ talk 09:34, 29 November 2006 (UTC) reply

Proposing name change to match this category's peers at Category:Native American tribes by state. - TexasAndroid 17:00, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

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Category:Fixed shooters and Category:Scrolling shooters

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The result of the debate was no consensus. the wub "?!" 10:33, 13 December 2006 (UTC) reply
Basically, these amount to subcategorizing Category:Shoot 'em ups based on whether or not the game has a scrolling screen. I don't consider that a particularly useful categorization. We don't subcat platformers or puzzle games by scrolling either. ( Radiant) 16:43, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

  • Keep Category:Scrolling shooters, Delete Category:Fixed shooters -- "Scrolling shooter" (also "side-scroller") is a historical, meaningful, very commonly used classification reflecting an influential video game design/interface paradigm pioneered by games like Defender. Google: "scrolling shooter" (273,000 ghits), or the more broad "side scroller" (352,000 ghits). " Fixed shooter", on the other hand, is much less frequently used (4,040 ghits), doesn't reflect a specific paradigm of game design, and may suggest the false analogy which makes "Scrolling shooters" seem like an arbitrary classification. -- Shunpiker 21:00, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply
(update) I'm not familiar with the term "fixed shooter" but it seems to be used here to name the model of play typified by Space Invaders. Many games (e.g. Galaga) built on that design. Keep Category:Fixed shooters but clarify its definition, and consider renaming it if a more common term can be found. -- Shunpiker
  • Comment top-down scrollers and side-scrollers are also frequently divided thusly. 132.205.44.134 00:00, 22 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Yes, yes, I know the difference between a "static" shooter, a side-scroller and a vertical scroller. The difference is obvious. My point is that this is not a meaningful categorization. Some games use both systems (e.g. Tyrian). The common themes in all these games are obvious (usually a spaceship with a bunch of upgrades and aliens or geometric shapes that swarm down and you have to shoot them etc). Which way the screen moves is, in comparison, trivial. ( Radiant) 09:24, 22 November 2006 (UTC) reply

To resolve this conflict, I assume that Radiant) would be somewhat agreed, the categories must be somehow combined. It seems like the "fixed shooters" would also fit under scrolling shooters in the idea that the enemies are scrolling; although fixed shooters seem much different than scrolling shooters; since scrolling shooters tend to vary in landscape whereas fixed shooters are of course more statically based. Sidescrolling and vertical shooters should of course be categorized under one, since like as said before some games have both; I just wanted to throw out another game that does this, Legendary Wings.-- Notmyhandle 09:07, 23 November 2006 (UTC) reply

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Category:Card battle computer and video games

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The result of the debate was no consensus. the wub "?!" 10:35, 13 December 2006 (UTC) reply
Merge into Category:Computer and video card games. The term "card battle" is poorly defined; for instance, is "Magic the Gathering" a card game or a card battle game? ( Radiant) 16:43, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

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Category:German playing card games, Category:Italian card games, Category:Spanish card games, Category:Chinese card games and Category:Anglo-American playing card games

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The result of the debate was no consensus. the wub "?!" 10:25, 13 December 2006 (UTC) reply
I fail to see why we should categorize card games by the country they're played in or come from. Note that most of these cats are quite small, and that most content of these categories are "classic" games played with a regular deck of cards, as opposed to "recent" games by a publisher in said country. ( Radiant) 16:43, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

Oppose. Why would they be deleted? Since no reason is given, and the categories are obviously extremely helpful (one glance at the games in each category shows a relationship that there would no way to see otherwise), the categories should stay. What would make sense is to make a "card games by national origin" type parent to include them all. 2005 02:31, 11 December 2006 (UTC) reply
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Category:Three-player card games and Category:Two-player card games

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The result of the debate was merge. -- RobertG ♬ talk 12:35, 11 December 2006 (UTC) reply

Since most card games can be played by varying amounts of players (e.g. Hearts can be done by three to eight, or Blackjack can be played by two or by as many as ten), I don't see the use of this categorization. ( Radiant) 16:43, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

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Category:Settlers of Catan

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The result of the debate was reverse merge. the wub "?!" 10:31, 13 December 2006 (UTC) reply
Upmerge to Category:Catan as small and redundant. ( Radiant) 16:43, 21 November 2006 (UTC) (would have no objection to a reverse merge either) ( Radiant) 09:24, 22 November 2006 (UTC) reply

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Category:Episodic games

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The result of the debate was no consensus. the wub "?!" 10:37, 13 December 2006 (UTC) reply
Apparently this refers to some computer games that have multiple parts. Given the prevalence of series and sequels, I fail to see the point. ( Radiant) 16:43, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

  • Comment Just to clarify, "episodic games" are actually a genre of computer gaming that is distinct from "sequels" or "franchises". An episodic game is a game that is specifically produced as a series of smaller, fairly regular subgames (aka episodes). The episodic subgames are typically cheaper and have less content than full games on the same platform, but have a more frequent release schedule than a full game. This is not the same as, for example, Madden Football which releases a new sequel version of the full game every year, nor is it the same as an MMORPG like World of Warcraft or Everquest which releases an expansion CD to the full game every year or so. (I have no particular comment, though, on whether or not the category is useful. I'm just explaining what the category is presumably referring to.) Dugwiki 18:00, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply
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Category:Expansion packs

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The result of the debate was rename to Category:Computer and video game expansion packs. the wub "?!" 20:10, 6 December 2006 (UTC) reply
Rename to "Computer and video game expansion packs", which is what this cat deals with. There's also expansion packs for e.g. board games and collectible train sets. ( Radiant) 16:43, 21 November 2006 (UTC) Jc37 has a good point; I wouldn't object to deletion either. ( Radiant) 09:24, 22 November 2006 (UTC) reply

  • Expansion packs are functionally different from stand-alone computer games. Expansion packs cannot function without another game, whereas stand-alone games can function by themselves. Based on the phenomenological differences, they should have their own category. George J. Bendo 13:08, 22 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • It's because expansion packs are not stand-alone games that they should be categorised with the game they expand, not with a bunch of other expanders. - jc37 23:57, 22 November 2006 (UTC) reply
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Category:Interactive Movie Games

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The result of the debate was rename to Category:Interactive movie computer and video games. the wub "?!" 10:42, 13 December 2006 (UTC) reply
First, capit is wrong. Second, all of these are arguably adventure games of some kind. ( Radiant) 16:43, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

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Category:Maze games

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The result of the debate was keep. the wub "?!" 10:44, 13 December 2006 (UTC) reply
I'm not convinced of the usefulness of this, considering the wide variety of computer games that include mazes - e.g. many text adventures, platformers, 3-d shooters, etc. ( Radiant) 16:43, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

  • Keep -- I created this category as a parallel to existing categories such as Category:Platform games (e.g. Donkey Kong) and Category:Scrolling shooters (e.g. Defender, and also nominated for deletion by same nominator) when I noticed that Pac Man was not similarly classified by interface/paradigm. This seemed an oversight to me, as Pac Man, its imitators, and precedents are widely described as "maze games" and comprise a well-known and influential genre. Categories such as "maze game" and "scrolling shooter" are well-established and useful in understanding the history of video games and the nature of video game design. I agree that this category could be improved: I didn't do a lot of work in stocking it, and it ought to have an accompanying article. It could even be narrowed to include only 2-dimensional maze games since it wouldn't make sense to include text adventures with abstract mazes such as Zork, and 3-dimensional maze games probably belong to their own category. But deleting this category would only obscure a gap in Wikipedia's encyclopedic coverage of video games. This category, on the other hand, is a first step in filling that gap. -- Shunpiker 20:24, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep- Seems as useful as "scrolling" games. - jc37 08:37, 22 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Note that both Google and our lack of an article Maze game seems to indicate this is hardly the common phrase for what might be renamed to Category:Pac-man clones. ( Radiant) 09:24, 22 November 2006 (UTC) reply
    Doing my best to sidestep WP:OR, here... But I can tell you that Berserk (for example) is in no way a pac-man clone. Same for Haunted House, Xybots, or any number of other maze games. As for your google search, perhaps it's because it's a term that had wide-spread usage that may predate the internet? (Maze games being designed for old-style game systems like the Atari 2600). - jc37 10:27, 22 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • I agree that Berserk is a very different game from Pac-man. Indeed the only thing they have in common is that they play in a maze of sorts. I'd say then that the category "maze games" contains items that really don't have that much in common, and is not a meaningful categorization. ( Radiant) 13:59, 22 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • I'll have to dig out some old computer gaming magazines/books and get you a reference. "Maze game" was a standard usage for such games back then (It also has to do with how they are programmed.. Remember also that BASIC code was often listed in such magazines/books. - jc37 23:57, 22 November 2006 (UTC) reply
    • Hm, good point. But since the way it's programmed seems less important than the way it plays - maybe we should split this category by archetype? Pac-man and Berserk are two obvious archetypes. So are Surround and Qix although arguably those aren't mazes. ( Radiant) 09:17, 23 November 2006 (UTC) reply
      • I concur that 'maze game' is a genre type that was used by magazines throughout the 80s, and that the only requirement seemed to be that the playing field was entirely a maze; either top-down or first-person. The actual gameplay style was a secondary consideration (for example, The Amazing Maze Game is a straight maze-game; Pac-Man is an action game) although excluding text adventure games. Since this genre is weakly defined, and not really used in gaming journalism any more, I propose listifying it (as it has historical interest). Marasmusine 10:49, 1 December 2006 (UTC) reply
      • Something like this? And here is an existing list of pac-man clones, described as maze chase games. Marasmusine 11:26, 1 December 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep 3D Monster Maze, the 1st 3D game for a home computer, is definitely a maze game and has whatsoever no relationship to Pac-man. I have no problem in pac-man clones having their own category, and don't quite care if that category becomes a subcat of the maze games category. This would seem to me an obvious solution to the problem stated in the above note. The nomination, on the other hand, sounds even less founded to me -- I fail to perceive a problem the nominator is trying to solve by the deletion. -- BACbKA 19:21, 1 December 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Comment Here is a typical early reference to the genre in CRASH issue 3. (In fact should something like this be referenced in the category and/or main genre article?) Marasmusine 00:30, 13 December 2006 (UTC) reply
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Category:Romance games, Category:Survival games, Category:Party video games and Category:Music video games

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The result of the debate was rename. the wub "?!" 10:46, 13 December 2006 (UTC) reply
Includes a bunch of subcategories. All of these should be "...computer and video games". ( Radiant) 16:43, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the debate was withdrawn ( Radiant) 09:24, 22 November 2006 (UTC) reply

Category:Real-time tactical computer games

I believe the prevalent term is "Real-time strategy games", or RTS. Merge to Category:Real-time strategy computer games. ( Radiant) 16:43, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

  • Strong keep: Real-time tactics (RTT) is a separate genre from real-time strategy (RTS) and has existed as well as used as a category, albeit not a one of the same recognition as "RTS, since at least 1999. RTT games are fundamentally distinct from RTS ones, and the two genres are common terminology used by strategy game gamers. The genre denomination is further used in major publications (see entry for real-time tactics for examples). There has previously (as in some years ago) been a debate whether RTT is a unique genre or a subset of RTS, but since the RTT denomination is in common use as a contrast to other strategy genres, among them RTS, it is now recognised and considered a genre of its own. It can not be replaced by or subsumed under the "real-time strategy computer games" category. In fact, this nomination for merger is very strange - has the submitter read the articles and familiarised himself with the genres before posting?. The distinctness of the genres are evident in both the real-time strategy and real-time tactics articles. Mikademus 17:55, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply
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Category:Tycoon computer games

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The result of the debate was delete. -- RobertG ♬ talk 12:53, 4 December 2006 (UTC) reply

This is a listing of economic, infrastructure, sim or RTS games that have "tycoon" in the title. Seems pretty redundant. ( Radiant) 16:43, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

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Category:Run and gun computer and video games

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The result of the debate was rename. the wub "?!" 10:58, 13 December 2006 (UTC) reply
Rename to "Run and gun games". Yes, they are computer games, but everything else in the parent cat (including the parent cat itself) is named "games". ( Radiant) 16:15, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

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Category:Hindu temples with magnificent architecture

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The result of the debate was merge/delete. Mairi 04:48, 29 November 2006 (UTC) reply

Delete, it seems to me that magnicicent is POV. -- ProveIt (talk)
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Category:Sittiparus

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The result of the debate was delete unnecessary (and empty) category. -- RobertG ♬ talk 12:41, 11 December 2006 (UTC) reply

Category:Sittiparus ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Delete, this supposed genus of tits might be valid at the subgeneric level as a clade of basal Asian chickadees, or be entirely invalid. Subgenera categories are not used at present and if anything they might be justified in extremely species-rich genera (such as unsplit Parus, in which case Sittiparus would be included in Poecile however). See Varied Tit article for references and some additional discussion. Dysmorodrepanis 14:30, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

  • Delete - The technical terms in this nomination are almost overwhelming. Nonetheless, I was able to determine that the nominator has made a valid point. To put it into plain English: It is unclear whether the varied tit and another tit belong in their own genus (Sittiparus) or if they are part of another genus (Cyanistes, Parus, or Poecile). If the tits in question are part of a larger genus, it may still be appropriate to classify them under Sittiparus as a subgenus. If this is the case, however, it is unclear that Category:Sittiparus is still needed in Wikipedia, as it is overcategorization. I am voting to delete because the use of the category as a genus category may be inaccurate and the use of the category as a subgenus category is overcategorization. George J. Bendo 16:25, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply
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Category:Former United States House of Representatives candidates

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The result of the debate was merge and redirect. Though candidacy alone may not be sufficient notability for an article, this does not affect the categorisation of articles that might exist anyway. the wub "?!" 12:48, 8 December 2006 (UTC) reply

Merge into Category:United States House of Representatives candidates; it includes former candidates. -- ProveIt (talk) 14:18, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply
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Category:Fictional tomboys

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The result of the debate was delete. -- RobertG ♬ talk 18:05, 28 November 2006 (UTC) reply

Category:Fictional tomboys ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

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Category:Anime dubbed into English

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The result of the debate was delete. -- RobertG ♬ talk 12:54, 4 December 2006 (UTC) reply

Category:Anime dubbed into English ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

  • Delete, Over-categorizations. Thousands, if not millions of anime titles have been dubbed and released domestically in the USA over the past 40 years. This is even more apparent now with the prevailence of DVD, where almost every single anime released domestically comes with both an english subtitled and englished dubbed version and where distrubution companies relases hundreds of titles a year. It is also a little arbitrary to simply cateogrize English dubs and no others. Why not "Anime dubbed into French" or "Anime dubbed into Spanish" or how about a real kicker "American animation dubbed into Japanese"! This category will become to over populated an unmanagble if left up. Animedude 08:23, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete, not a defining characteristic. ( Radiant) 08:38, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete - George J. Bendo 10:16, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete per nom. Olborne 14:40, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Changed - Completely ridiculous, if I might suggest changing this to English Licensed Anime because it would make it easier to keep track of the existing Anime. It is quite helpful because it tells people which titles are available with an english dub track. What I really hate more then anything is frivolous nitpickers like your self who have nothing better to do then go after things because of a tiny technicality. There is a use for this but it's impossible to explain it to you.-- Jack Cox 21:10, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Given the large amount of anime already translated into English as well as the number of licenses probably held by companies working on or planning to translate additional series, I cannot imagine this category being any more useful that Category:Anime. Moreover, if you cannot explain the category's purpose, then maybe it is not needed. George J. Bendo 21:25, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply
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Category:Dukes of Hazzard actors

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The result of the debate was delete. -- RobertG ♬ talk 12:56, 4 December 2006 (UTC) reply

Category:Dukes of Hazzard actors ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
More cruft, from the same source. Her Pegship 07:05, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

Comment impartial, these would be the category from the 1979 season Denver Pyle, Sorrell Booke, Ben Jones, Catherine Bach, Sonny Shroyer, Waylon Jennings, from the movie 2005 movie Jessica Simpson, Johnny Knoxville, Burt Reynolds, Willie Nelson, Lynda Carter and others.-- Dakota 07:20, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply
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Category:Charlie's Angels actors

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The result of the debate was delete. -- RobertG ♬ talk 12:57, 4 December 2006 (UTC) reply

Category:Charlie's Angels actors ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Overcategorization, cruft, not notable. Her Pegship 07:04, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

George Kennedy is a pretty short article for someone who appears in so many series... i.e. he does not make notable appearances in 50 series, or is not a regular cast member in 50 series. We can probably agree that single appearances can removed from categories. Tim! 07:49, 23 November 2006 (UTC) reply
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Category:New Zealand Māori

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The result of the debate was merge Category:New Zealand Māori and Category:Māori people to Category:New Zealand Māori people. the wub "?!" 11:05, 15 December 2006 (UTC) reply
A well-meaning but misguided attempt to rename Category:Māori people. I can understand renaming to Category:New Zealand Māori people, so as to exclude people of Māori descent not born in New Zealand (and especially given to potential confusion with people of Cook Island Māori descent), but this category does not make it clear that it is for individual people, which the previous name did (it would also have been nice if there had been some discussion about such a wide-ranging change at the New Zealand WikiProject pages, but that is beside the point). In any case, I suggest merging the two current categories into a new Category:New Zealand Māori people, which should remove the original ambiguity and the one which has replaced it. Grutness... wha? 05:41, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

  • Delete, or Merge back into Category:Māori people. If it can be shown that there's a need to further categorise then prepend with 'New Zealand' per Grutness' suggestion (and set up the other(s) eg Category:Cook Island Māori people. If not, leave as-is.-- cjllw | TALK 01:42, 22 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Indeed, and given the rather fluid citizenship/residency arrangements between A/NZ it could easily be problematic to further categorise by nationality. How about rename Category:Cook Island Māori to Category:Cook Island Māori people (if it is really needed), make that a subcat of Category:Māori people, and then leave as-is (ie also delete/merge Category:New Zealand Māori into Category:New Zealand Māori? -- cjllw | TALK 02:11, 23 November 2006 (UTC) reply
    • Problem with that is that Cook Island Māori aren't Māori per se - they are a separate people who just happen to use the same name to describe themselves, so it isn't an acceptable subcategory. Perhaps I've not been expaining this properly - let's try again (it is confusing): Māori, i.e., native New Zealanders, may be citizens of New Zealand or of other countries. The category Category:Māori deals with their culture as a whole. Category:Māori people, the original category, suffers from the problem that it could include people who are citizens of Australia or other countries, but the new Category:New Zealand Māori has the opposite problem in that it doesn't specify that it is for biographies. To add to the confusion, there is a separate people, Cook Island Māori (so named), this name simply meaning they are of CI Māori descent, but not necessarily implying they are born or living in the Cook Islands - many Cook Island Māori live in New Zealand, for instance. The whole thing could become a horrible mess, really, but - unless there is a proliferation of Cook Island Māori categories, it at least makes sense for categories dealing with the Māori people to adequately delineate between the culture, specific New Zealanders, and specific people not in New Zealand. Grutness... wha? 05:13, 23 November 2006 (UTC) reply
    • OK, then scratch the idea of making CI Māori people a subcat of Māori people. Is it such a problem that Category:Māori people, which would seem to be fine and unambiguous as a cat name, could be open to include Māori individuals with citizenship/residence other than NZ? It would be reasonable naturally for Category:Māori on the overall culture to have a subcat for notable individuals from that culture, and Category:Māori people would be the simplest name for that. I suppose one could also have Category:New Zealand Māori people as a more specific subcat if needed or desired. I note there is also a Category:Cook Islands people as well as Category:Cook Island Māori. In any event, the categories intended for individuals should probably be named cat:X people to avoid ambiguity, and it's also reasonably standard, so agreed that Category:New Zealand Māori and Category:Cook Island Māori need renaming by tacking on "people" to the end, if indeed they are to be maintained.-- cjllw | TALK 08:27, 23 November 2006 (UTC) reply
    • I don't think it would be too much of a problem - that has been the category name for quite a while, and it was only the recent attempted change that prompted me to bring this here (apparently that itself was prompted by the creation of the CI category). As long as it is made clear in the category that it is for people of (NZ) Māori descent rather than (CI) Māori descent (who are rarely if ever known simply as "Māori"), there shouldn't be much of a problem. There would still be the problem that it's a subcat of Category:New Zealand people, but I don't think it would be too difficult to turn a slightly blind eye to that one since those Māori not actually New Zealand citizens will be of fairly recent NZ descent. Grutness... wha? 11:05, 23 November 2006 (UTC) reply
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Category:Wikipedia articles vulnerable to vandalism

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The result of the debate was deleted by TexasAndroid. Whisp e ring 18:47, 24 November 2006 (UTC) Category:Wikipedia articles vulnerable to vandalism ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs) reply
Delete -- To avoid encouraging vandalism to vulnerable pages, only administrators can view Special:Unwatchedpages, a page which performs essentially the same function as Category:Wikipedia articles vulnerable to vandalism. There's no reason to advertise the vulnerability of an article to vandalism, thereby encouraging readers to vandalize it. The rationale for the deletion of this category is discussed in general terms in WP:BEANS. John254 04:02, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

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Category:Screaming Jets DVDs

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The result of the debate was delete. -- RobertG ♬ talk 12:44, 11 December 2006 (UTC) reply

Category:Screaming Jets DVDs ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Transferred from PROD as PROD does not and should not handle categories 132.205.93.88 03:23, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

not especially notable, plus this band only seems to have one DVD so there is no need for a category just for their dvds 17:46, 20 November 2006 user:Raining girl
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Category:Internet companies of Ireland

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The result of the debate was keep (after problems with category text were removed). -- RobertG ♬ talk 12:47, 11 December 2006 (UTC) reply

Category:Internet companies of Ireland ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Transferred from PROD as PROD does not and should not handle categories 132.205.93.88 03:23, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

Article is in the wrong place (i.e. "category" name space), is clearly an advertisement ("our competencies are ...") and is not notable 15:25, 19 November 2006 user:Sony-youth
note: I deleted inappropriate category text from this category. 132.205.93.88 03:23, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply
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Pro-life and pro-choice by profession

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The result of the debate was delete. -- RobertG ♬ talk 18:04, 28 November 2006 (UTC) reply

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Military and war museums

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The result of the debate was merge. the wub "?!" 19:15, 6 December 2006 (UTC) reply
Category:Military museums ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs) and Category:War and conflict museums ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs) into Category:Military and war museums ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

  • Merge: broadly speaking, all war museums deal with the military to some degree, and all military museums deal with war to some degree; certainly, in practice, there don't appear to be any museums that cover one but entirely omit the other. Thus, there seems no reason to maintain an artificial distinction between these two categories. The issue has been discussed by the Military history WikiProject, and no objections to the merge have been raised. Kirill Lokshin 02:28, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Merge - This simply makes sense. George J. Bendo 10:22, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Disagree with merge It is a logical way of subdividing the parent category. I like the scope of both categories since the number of entries in each is appropriate IMHO. The current setup gives a nice amount of room for future expansion. Royalbroil  Talk   Contrib 14:24, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply
    • But what's the criterion being used to subdivide here? We can't figure out any real distinction between the two, and the division of articles seems fairly random (indeed, most of the articles seem to be in both categories anyways). If the only issue is size, it would be better to simply apply the same categorization by country that's used for other museum categories here, rather than keeping two root categories without a clear definition of what goes into each. Kirill Lokshin 18:24, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply
      • Great response! I was thinking that the war and conflict category would contain articles about war and conflict museums, and that the military category would contain military non-war museums. If in both categories, then an article would be in the war category by default. Since you state that system would places nearly all the articles in the war category, then I would be in favor of merging and subdividing by country instead per Kirill's last comment. Royalbroil  Talk   Contrib 04:37, 22 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Merge. If the category grows too big separate it geographically. Pavel Vozenilek 21:43, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Merge - The only distinction I can think of here, would be to isolate those members or facets of the military which did not/do not see combat. However, I think the merger name covers this well enough. - jc37 08:37, 22 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Merge per nomination and discussion at WP:MILHIST. Carom 15:08, 22 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Merge per nomination and discussion at WP:MILHIST.-- Dryzen 19:01, 24 November 2006 (UTC) reply
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Category:2000s Video Games

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The result of the debate was delete. the wub "?!" 19:53, 6 December 2006 (UTC) reply
Category:2000s Video Games ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Delete, superseded by Category:2000_computer_and_video_games Htmlism 02:01, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

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Category:The O.C. guest stars

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The result of the debate was delete. Mairi 04:43, 29 November 2006 (UTC) reply

Delete, IMHO guest star categories are clutter. -- ProveIt (talk) 01:57, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply
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Category:1990s High Honor Video Games

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The result of the debate was delete. -- RobertG ♬ talk 17:59, 28 November 2006 (UTC) reply

Category:1990s High Honor Video Games ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Delete, It just seems fishy, I can't put my finger on it. I wanted to start a discussion on it. One of the guidelines for making categories said to avoid "important x's" and this seems to be a case of that. Htmlism 01:36, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

Delete original research / POV. Arbitrary cutoffs. Andre ( talk) 01:47, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply
Delete - I messed up on this one, I agree. I wanted to make what 2000s Video Games is now. ( Tigerghost 02:11, 21 November 2006 (UTC)) reply
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Category:Robot Chicken voice actors

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The result of the debate was delete. -- RobertG ♬ talk 17:58, 28 November 2006 (UTC) reply

Category:Robot Chicken voice actors ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Delete, This information is better served by being a list. MakeRocketGoNow 00:05, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

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Category:Kim Possible voice actors

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The result of the debate was delete. -- RobertG ♬ talk 17:56, 28 November 2006 (UTC) reply

Category:Kim Possible voice actors ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Delete, This information is better served by being a list. MakeRocketGoNow 00:03, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

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Retrieved from " https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_deletion/Log/2006_November_21&oldid=1136104057"
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
< November 20 November 22 >

November 21

Category:Dark Lords

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The result of the debate was delete (I was about to listify on the Dark Lord article, but found it was recently deleted). -- RobertG ♬ talk 09:27, 29 November 2006 (UTC) reply

Category:Dark Lords ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

  • Delete - The term "Dark Lords" is not being used to decribe people from a particular work of fiction but is instead being used to describe any evil character from any science fiction or fantasy series. The term "Dark Lords" is not clearly defined, and it suffers from POV problems, as determining who qualifies as a "dark lord" is very subjective. I recommend deleting the category. George J. Bendo 22:48, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • The Dark Lord page gives an unclear set of criteria for defining a "Dark Lord". Some of the criteria ("powerful villian") are subjective and suffer from POV problems. Moreover, the article does not cite its references. Maybe the page should be deleted. George J. Bendo 13:01, 22 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Listify, as a category it just gets filled with "evil" characters (much like the personifications of evil cat that got deleted a while back), but could be a useful list. TheJoust 02:10, 24 November 2006 (UTC) reply

Maybe we should be more specific about how one qualifies as a Dark Lord. In my experience a Dark Lord is an evil dictator with sinister henchman and supernatural powers which he or she uses for the accumulation of power at the expense of others. As a category it is just as useful as the Evil Geniuses character. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.145.241.39 ( talk • contribs)

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Category:Female dark lords

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The result of the debate was delete, and per above "Dark Lords" discussion. -- RobertG ♬ talk 09:21, 29 November 2006 (UTC) reply

Category:Female dark lords ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
You are not allowed to distinguish by gender. Upmerge. ~ Zythe Talk to me! 17:35, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

  • You are allowed to distinguish by gender, if the distinction is a legitimate one. The gender-based classifiaction is a guideline. It is not a policy. Nominating categories with a reason like "you are not allowed to distinguish by gender" demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of the sex classification guideline. That being said, this is not IMHO a legitimate sex-based classification, so Upmerge. Otto4711 22:49, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply
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Sun Microsystems category

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The result of the debate was rename. -- RobertG ♬ talk 09:28, 29 November 2006 (UTC) reply

all rename Sun Microsystems products.-- Wii WIi wuu 22:38, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

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CNN category

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The result of the debate was rename (I'll leave a {{ category redirect}} for the Cable News Network category). -- RobertG ♬ talk 09:31, 29 November 2006 (UTC) reply

all rename info page name is CNN.-- Wii WIi wuu 22:38, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

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Category:SS

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The result of the debate was no consensus. the wub "?!" 10:15, 7 December 2006 (UTC) reply

rename info page name is Schutzstaffel.-- Wii WIi wuu 22:38, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

  • We're an encyclopedia, and we should use actual names as opposed to common names that may be incorrect. For instance, Napoleon is a redirect to the man's actual name. The category can have a header that explains the term and links to an article, like many cats do. ( Radiant) 13:54, 22 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Oppose There is the same amount to be said for this idea as there is to be said for moving Nazi Party to Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei. Hanbrook 14:17, 22 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Rename. Precision is good. Also, the association of the term "SS" is becoming less common and less strongly associated with the mid-20th century German paramilitaries as time carries on. Also, since we're apparently okay with using German names for most of the articles in the category, e.g. SS-Totenkopfverbände, Kameradenwerk, Gestapo, the category in which they are contained can also be a German name. -/- Warren 08:16, 24 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Oppose per nom and others above and since categories cannot have re-directs, such renaming would be unhelpful to the casual WP user Hmains 20:45, 24 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Rename to increase clarity. "SS" is not really good enough, it's not like "Nazi" as there are many meanings. 132.205.45.206 01:39, 25 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Strong Oppose - SS is the common term in English Patstuart (talk) (contribs) 11:40, 1 December 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Rename It can be marked with {{ Category redirect}}. See here for a long list of other meanings. Stainless steel? Social science? Screen saver? Self-service? Sample size? The current use may be one of the more common meanings but it's by no means the only common one. -- HKMarks( T/ C) 17:16, 4 December 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Neutral Whilst I'd normally agree with renaming a category in line with the main article, I think there is a serious problem with the main article name. Schutzstaffel is not a word I can recall ever hearing despite having studied Nazi Germany several times. Indeed looking in the indexes of the few books on Nazi Germany on my shelves they either have the entry under "SS" or don't list it at all. There's a case that only the acronym rather than the word itself has been incorporated into English. (And we also have other articles at the acronyms rather than the full name when the form is overwhelming better known - e.g. NASA.) As for the comments about disambiguation I like the idea that other uses of "SS" should force the naming to "Schutzstaffel" - there are disambiguation tags and something like "SS (Nazi)" would be far more recognisable. Timrollpickering 14:01, 5 December 2006 (UTC) reply
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Queen category

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The result of the debate was rename all. -- RobertG ♬ talk 12:49, 4 December 2006 (UTC) reply

All rename' as info page name is a " Queen (band)".-- Lyjyuwin 20:24, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

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Category:Fictional Black African-American DC animated Superheroes with the power to manipulate electricity

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The result of the debate was delete. Mairi 04:41, 29 November 2006 (UTC) reply

Delete, seems a bit narrow to me. -- ProveIt (talk) 19:47, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply
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Category:Clumsy fictional characters

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The result of the debate was delete. -- RobertG ♬ talk 09:32, 29 November 2006 (UTC) reply

Category:Clumsy fictional characters ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Trivial, non-defining characteristic. ~ Zythe Talk to me! 17:45, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

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Category:California tribes to Category:Native American tribes in California

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The result of the debate was rename. -- RobertG ♬ talk 09:33, 29 November 2006 (UTC) reply

Proposing name change to match this category's peers at Category:Native American tribes by state. - TexasAndroid 17:00, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

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Category:Virginia tribes to Category:Native American tribes in Virginia

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The result of the debate was rename. -- RobertG ♬ talk 09:34, 29 November 2006 (UTC) reply

Proposing name change to match this category's peers at Category:Native American tribes by state. - TexasAndroid 17:00, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

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Category:Fixed shooters and Category:Scrolling shooters

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The result of the debate was no consensus. the wub "?!" 10:33, 13 December 2006 (UTC) reply
Basically, these amount to subcategorizing Category:Shoot 'em ups based on whether or not the game has a scrolling screen. I don't consider that a particularly useful categorization. We don't subcat platformers or puzzle games by scrolling either. ( Radiant) 16:43, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

  • Keep Category:Scrolling shooters, Delete Category:Fixed shooters -- "Scrolling shooter" (also "side-scroller") is a historical, meaningful, very commonly used classification reflecting an influential video game design/interface paradigm pioneered by games like Defender. Google: "scrolling shooter" (273,000 ghits), or the more broad "side scroller" (352,000 ghits). " Fixed shooter", on the other hand, is much less frequently used (4,040 ghits), doesn't reflect a specific paradigm of game design, and may suggest the false analogy which makes "Scrolling shooters" seem like an arbitrary classification. -- Shunpiker 21:00, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply
(update) I'm not familiar with the term "fixed shooter" but it seems to be used here to name the model of play typified by Space Invaders. Many games (e.g. Galaga) built on that design. Keep Category:Fixed shooters but clarify its definition, and consider renaming it if a more common term can be found. -- Shunpiker
  • Comment top-down scrollers and side-scrollers are also frequently divided thusly. 132.205.44.134 00:00, 22 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Yes, yes, I know the difference between a "static" shooter, a side-scroller and a vertical scroller. The difference is obvious. My point is that this is not a meaningful categorization. Some games use both systems (e.g. Tyrian). The common themes in all these games are obvious (usually a spaceship with a bunch of upgrades and aliens or geometric shapes that swarm down and you have to shoot them etc). Which way the screen moves is, in comparison, trivial. ( Radiant) 09:24, 22 November 2006 (UTC) reply

To resolve this conflict, I assume that Radiant) would be somewhat agreed, the categories must be somehow combined. It seems like the "fixed shooters" would also fit under scrolling shooters in the idea that the enemies are scrolling; although fixed shooters seem much different than scrolling shooters; since scrolling shooters tend to vary in landscape whereas fixed shooters are of course more statically based. Sidescrolling and vertical shooters should of course be categorized under one, since like as said before some games have both; I just wanted to throw out another game that does this, Legendary Wings.-- Notmyhandle 09:07, 23 November 2006 (UTC) reply

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Category:Card battle computer and video games

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The result of the debate was no consensus. the wub "?!" 10:35, 13 December 2006 (UTC) reply
Merge into Category:Computer and video card games. The term "card battle" is poorly defined; for instance, is "Magic the Gathering" a card game or a card battle game? ( Radiant) 16:43, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

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Category:German playing card games, Category:Italian card games, Category:Spanish card games, Category:Chinese card games and Category:Anglo-American playing card games

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The result of the debate was no consensus. the wub "?!" 10:25, 13 December 2006 (UTC) reply
I fail to see why we should categorize card games by the country they're played in or come from. Note that most of these cats are quite small, and that most content of these categories are "classic" games played with a regular deck of cards, as opposed to "recent" games by a publisher in said country. ( Radiant) 16:43, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

Oppose. Why would they be deleted? Since no reason is given, and the categories are obviously extremely helpful (one glance at the games in each category shows a relationship that there would no way to see otherwise), the categories should stay. What would make sense is to make a "card games by national origin" type parent to include them all. 2005 02:31, 11 December 2006 (UTC) reply
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Category:Three-player card games and Category:Two-player card games

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The result of the debate was merge. -- RobertG ♬ talk 12:35, 11 December 2006 (UTC) reply

Since most card games can be played by varying amounts of players (e.g. Hearts can be done by three to eight, or Blackjack can be played by two or by as many as ten), I don't see the use of this categorization. ( Radiant) 16:43, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

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Category:Settlers of Catan

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The result of the debate was reverse merge. the wub "?!" 10:31, 13 December 2006 (UTC) reply
Upmerge to Category:Catan as small and redundant. ( Radiant) 16:43, 21 November 2006 (UTC) (would have no objection to a reverse merge either) ( Radiant) 09:24, 22 November 2006 (UTC) reply

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Category:Episodic games

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The result of the debate was no consensus. the wub "?!" 10:37, 13 December 2006 (UTC) reply
Apparently this refers to some computer games that have multiple parts. Given the prevalence of series and sequels, I fail to see the point. ( Radiant) 16:43, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

  • Comment Just to clarify, "episodic games" are actually a genre of computer gaming that is distinct from "sequels" or "franchises". An episodic game is a game that is specifically produced as a series of smaller, fairly regular subgames (aka episodes). The episodic subgames are typically cheaper and have less content than full games on the same platform, but have a more frequent release schedule than a full game. This is not the same as, for example, Madden Football which releases a new sequel version of the full game every year, nor is it the same as an MMORPG like World of Warcraft or Everquest which releases an expansion CD to the full game every year or so. (I have no particular comment, though, on whether or not the category is useful. I'm just explaining what the category is presumably referring to.) Dugwiki 18:00, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply
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Category:Expansion packs

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The result of the debate was rename to Category:Computer and video game expansion packs. the wub "?!" 20:10, 6 December 2006 (UTC) reply
Rename to "Computer and video game expansion packs", which is what this cat deals with. There's also expansion packs for e.g. board games and collectible train sets. ( Radiant) 16:43, 21 November 2006 (UTC) Jc37 has a good point; I wouldn't object to deletion either. ( Radiant) 09:24, 22 November 2006 (UTC) reply

  • Expansion packs are functionally different from stand-alone computer games. Expansion packs cannot function without another game, whereas stand-alone games can function by themselves. Based on the phenomenological differences, they should have their own category. George J. Bendo 13:08, 22 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • It's because expansion packs are not stand-alone games that they should be categorised with the game they expand, not with a bunch of other expanders. - jc37 23:57, 22 November 2006 (UTC) reply
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Category:Interactive Movie Games

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The result of the debate was rename to Category:Interactive movie computer and video games. the wub "?!" 10:42, 13 December 2006 (UTC) reply
First, capit is wrong. Second, all of these are arguably adventure games of some kind. ( Radiant) 16:43, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

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Category:Maze games

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The result of the debate was keep. the wub "?!" 10:44, 13 December 2006 (UTC) reply
I'm not convinced of the usefulness of this, considering the wide variety of computer games that include mazes - e.g. many text adventures, platformers, 3-d shooters, etc. ( Radiant) 16:43, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

  • Keep -- I created this category as a parallel to existing categories such as Category:Platform games (e.g. Donkey Kong) and Category:Scrolling shooters (e.g. Defender, and also nominated for deletion by same nominator) when I noticed that Pac Man was not similarly classified by interface/paradigm. This seemed an oversight to me, as Pac Man, its imitators, and precedents are widely described as "maze games" and comprise a well-known and influential genre. Categories such as "maze game" and "scrolling shooter" are well-established and useful in understanding the history of video games and the nature of video game design. I agree that this category could be improved: I didn't do a lot of work in stocking it, and it ought to have an accompanying article. It could even be narrowed to include only 2-dimensional maze games since it wouldn't make sense to include text adventures with abstract mazes such as Zork, and 3-dimensional maze games probably belong to their own category. But deleting this category would only obscure a gap in Wikipedia's encyclopedic coverage of video games. This category, on the other hand, is a first step in filling that gap. -- Shunpiker 20:24, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep- Seems as useful as "scrolling" games. - jc37 08:37, 22 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Note that both Google and our lack of an article Maze game seems to indicate this is hardly the common phrase for what might be renamed to Category:Pac-man clones. ( Radiant) 09:24, 22 November 2006 (UTC) reply
    Doing my best to sidestep WP:OR, here... But I can tell you that Berserk (for example) is in no way a pac-man clone. Same for Haunted House, Xybots, or any number of other maze games. As for your google search, perhaps it's because it's a term that had wide-spread usage that may predate the internet? (Maze games being designed for old-style game systems like the Atari 2600). - jc37 10:27, 22 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • I agree that Berserk is a very different game from Pac-man. Indeed the only thing they have in common is that they play in a maze of sorts. I'd say then that the category "maze games" contains items that really don't have that much in common, and is not a meaningful categorization. ( Radiant) 13:59, 22 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • I'll have to dig out some old computer gaming magazines/books and get you a reference. "Maze game" was a standard usage for such games back then (It also has to do with how they are programmed.. Remember also that BASIC code was often listed in such magazines/books. - jc37 23:57, 22 November 2006 (UTC) reply
    • Hm, good point. But since the way it's programmed seems less important than the way it plays - maybe we should split this category by archetype? Pac-man and Berserk are two obvious archetypes. So are Surround and Qix although arguably those aren't mazes. ( Radiant) 09:17, 23 November 2006 (UTC) reply
      • I concur that 'maze game' is a genre type that was used by magazines throughout the 80s, and that the only requirement seemed to be that the playing field was entirely a maze; either top-down or first-person. The actual gameplay style was a secondary consideration (for example, The Amazing Maze Game is a straight maze-game; Pac-Man is an action game) although excluding text adventure games. Since this genre is weakly defined, and not really used in gaming journalism any more, I propose listifying it (as it has historical interest). Marasmusine 10:49, 1 December 2006 (UTC) reply
      • Something like this? And here is an existing list of pac-man clones, described as maze chase games. Marasmusine 11:26, 1 December 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep 3D Monster Maze, the 1st 3D game for a home computer, is definitely a maze game and has whatsoever no relationship to Pac-man. I have no problem in pac-man clones having their own category, and don't quite care if that category becomes a subcat of the maze games category. This would seem to me an obvious solution to the problem stated in the above note. The nomination, on the other hand, sounds even less founded to me -- I fail to perceive a problem the nominator is trying to solve by the deletion. -- BACbKA 19:21, 1 December 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Comment Here is a typical early reference to the genre in CRASH issue 3. (In fact should something like this be referenced in the category and/or main genre article?) Marasmusine 00:30, 13 December 2006 (UTC) reply
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Category:Romance games, Category:Survival games, Category:Party video games and Category:Music video games

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The result of the debate was rename. the wub "?!" 10:46, 13 December 2006 (UTC) reply
Includes a bunch of subcategories. All of these should be "...computer and video games". ( Radiant) 16:43, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the debate was withdrawn ( Radiant) 09:24, 22 November 2006 (UTC) reply

Category:Real-time tactical computer games

I believe the prevalent term is "Real-time strategy games", or RTS. Merge to Category:Real-time strategy computer games. ( Radiant) 16:43, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

  • Strong keep: Real-time tactics (RTT) is a separate genre from real-time strategy (RTS) and has existed as well as used as a category, albeit not a one of the same recognition as "RTS, since at least 1999. RTT games are fundamentally distinct from RTS ones, and the two genres are common terminology used by strategy game gamers. The genre denomination is further used in major publications (see entry for real-time tactics for examples). There has previously (as in some years ago) been a debate whether RTT is a unique genre or a subset of RTS, but since the RTT denomination is in common use as a contrast to other strategy genres, among them RTS, it is now recognised and considered a genre of its own. It can not be replaced by or subsumed under the "real-time strategy computer games" category. In fact, this nomination for merger is very strange - has the submitter read the articles and familiarised himself with the genres before posting?. The distinctness of the genres are evident in both the real-time strategy and real-time tactics articles. Mikademus 17:55, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply
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Category:Tycoon computer games

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The result of the debate was delete. -- RobertG ♬ talk 12:53, 4 December 2006 (UTC) reply

This is a listing of economic, infrastructure, sim or RTS games that have "tycoon" in the title. Seems pretty redundant. ( Radiant) 16:43, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

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Category:Run and gun computer and video games

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The result of the debate was rename. the wub "?!" 10:58, 13 December 2006 (UTC) reply
Rename to "Run and gun games". Yes, they are computer games, but everything else in the parent cat (including the parent cat itself) is named "games". ( Radiant) 16:15, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

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Category:Hindu temples with magnificent architecture

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The result of the debate was merge/delete. Mairi 04:48, 29 November 2006 (UTC) reply

Delete, it seems to me that magnicicent is POV. -- ProveIt (talk)
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Category:Sittiparus

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The result of the debate was delete unnecessary (and empty) category. -- RobertG ♬ talk 12:41, 11 December 2006 (UTC) reply

Category:Sittiparus ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Delete, this supposed genus of tits might be valid at the subgeneric level as a clade of basal Asian chickadees, or be entirely invalid. Subgenera categories are not used at present and if anything they might be justified in extremely species-rich genera (such as unsplit Parus, in which case Sittiparus would be included in Poecile however). See Varied Tit article for references and some additional discussion. Dysmorodrepanis 14:30, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

  • Delete - The technical terms in this nomination are almost overwhelming. Nonetheless, I was able to determine that the nominator has made a valid point. To put it into plain English: It is unclear whether the varied tit and another tit belong in their own genus (Sittiparus) or if they are part of another genus (Cyanistes, Parus, or Poecile). If the tits in question are part of a larger genus, it may still be appropriate to classify them under Sittiparus as a subgenus. If this is the case, however, it is unclear that Category:Sittiparus is still needed in Wikipedia, as it is overcategorization. I am voting to delete because the use of the category as a genus category may be inaccurate and the use of the category as a subgenus category is overcategorization. George J. Bendo 16:25, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply
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Category:Former United States House of Representatives candidates

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The result of the debate was merge and redirect. Though candidacy alone may not be sufficient notability for an article, this does not affect the categorisation of articles that might exist anyway. the wub "?!" 12:48, 8 December 2006 (UTC) reply

Merge into Category:United States House of Representatives candidates; it includes former candidates. -- ProveIt (talk) 14:18, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply
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Category:Fictional tomboys

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The result of the debate was delete. -- RobertG ♬ talk 18:05, 28 November 2006 (UTC) reply

Category:Fictional tomboys ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

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Category:Anime dubbed into English

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The result of the debate was delete. -- RobertG ♬ talk 12:54, 4 December 2006 (UTC) reply

Category:Anime dubbed into English ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

  • Delete, Over-categorizations. Thousands, if not millions of anime titles have been dubbed and released domestically in the USA over the past 40 years. This is even more apparent now with the prevailence of DVD, where almost every single anime released domestically comes with both an english subtitled and englished dubbed version and where distrubution companies relases hundreds of titles a year. It is also a little arbitrary to simply cateogrize English dubs and no others. Why not "Anime dubbed into French" or "Anime dubbed into Spanish" or how about a real kicker "American animation dubbed into Japanese"! This category will become to over populated an unmanagble if left up. Animedude 08:23, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete, not a defining characteristic. ( Radiant) 08:38, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete - George J. Bendo 10:16, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete per nom. Olborne 14:40, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Changed - Completely ridiculous, if I might suggest changing this to English Licensed Anime because it would make it easier to keep track of the existing Anime. It is quite helpful because it tells people which titles are available with an english dub track. What I really hate more then anything is frivolous nitpickers like your self who have nothing better to do then go after things because of a tiny technicality. There is a use for this but it's impossible to explain it to you.-- Jack Cox 21:10, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Given the large amount of anime already translated into English as well as the number of licenses probably held by companies working on or planning to translate additional series, I cannot imagine this category being any more useful that Category:Anime. Moreover, if you cannot explain the category's purpose, then maybe it is not needed. George J. Bendo 21:25, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply
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Category:Dukes of Hazzard actors

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The result of the debate was delete. -- RobertG ♬ talk 12:56, 4 December 2006 (UTC) reply

Category:Dukes of Hazzard actors ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
More cruft, from the same source. Her Pegship 07:05, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

Comment impartial, these would be the category from the 1979 season Denver Pyle, Sorrell Booke, Ben Jones, Catherine Bach, Sonny Shroyer, Waylon Jennings, from the movie 2005 movie Jessica Simpson, Johnny Knoxville, Burt Reynolds, Willie Nelson, Lynda Carter and others.-- Dakota 07:20, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply
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Category:Charlie's Angels actors

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The result of the debate was delete. -- RobertG ♬ talk 12:57, 4 December 2006 (UTC) reply

Category:Charlie's Angels actors ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Overcategorization, cruft, not notable. Her Pegship 07:04, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

George Kennedy is a pretty short article for someone who appears in so many series... i.e. he does not make notable appearances in 50 series, or is not a regular cast member in 50 series. We can probably agree that single appearances can removed from categories. Tim! 07:49, 23 November 2006 (UTC) reply
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Category:New Zealand Māori

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The result of the debate was merge Category:New Zealand Māori and Category:Māori people to Category:New Zealand Māori people. the wub "?!" 11:05, 15 December 2006 (UTC) reply
A well-meaning but misguided attempt to rename Category:Māori people. I can understand renaming to Category:New Zealand Māori people, so as to exclude people of Māori descent not born in New Zealand (and especially given to potential confusion with people of Cook Island Māori descent), but this category does not make it clear that it is for individual people, which the previous name did (it would also have been nice if there had been some discussion about such a wide-ranging change at the New Zealand WikiProject pages, but that is beside the point). In any case, I suggest merging the two current categories into a new Category:New Zealand Māori people, which should remove the original ambiguity and the one which has replaced it. Grutness... wha? 05:41, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

  • Delete, or Merge back into Category:Māori people. If it can be shown that there's a need to further categorise then prepend with 'New Zealand' per Grutness' suggestion (and set up the other(s) eg Category:Cook Island Māori people. If not, leave as-is.-- cjllw | TALK 01:42, 22 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Indeed, and given the rather fluid citizenship/residency arrangements between A/NZ it could easily be problematic to further categorise by nationality. How about rename Category:Cook Island Māori to Category:Cook Island Māori people (if it is really needed), make that a subcat of Category:Māori people, and then leave as-is (ie also delete/merge Category:New Zealand Māori into Category:New Zealand Māori? -- cjllw | TALK 02:11, 23 November 2006 (UTC) reply
    • Problem with that is that Cook Island Māori aren't Māori per se - they are a separate people who just happen to use the same name to describe themselves, so it isn't an acceptable subcategory. Perhaps I've not been expaining this properly - let's try again (it is confusing): Māori, i.e., native New Zealanders, may be citizens of New Zealand or of other countries. The category Category:Māori deals with their culture as a whole. Category:Māori people, the original category, suffers from the problem that it could include people who are citizens of Australia or other countries, but the new Category:New Zealand Māori has the opposite problem in that it doesn't specify that it is for biographies. To add to the confusion, there is a separate people, Cook Island Māori (so named), this name simply meaning they are of CI Māori descent, but not necessarily implying they are born or living in the Cook Islands - many Cook Island Māori live in New Zealand, for instance. The whole thing could become a horrible mess, really, but - unless there is a proliferation of Cook Island Māori categories, it at least makes sense for categories dealing with the Māori people to adequately delineate between the culture, specific New Zealanders, and specific people not in New Zealand. Grutness... wha? 05:13, 23 November 2006 (UTC) reply
    • OK, then scratch the idea of making CI Māori people a subcat of Māori people. Is it such a problem that Category:Māori people, which would seem to be fine and unambiguous as a cat name, could be open to include Māori individuals with citizenship/residence other than NZ? It would be reasonable naturally for Category:Māori on the overall culture to have a subcat for notable individuals from that culture, and Category:Māori people would be the simplest name for that. I suppose one could also have Category:New Zealand Māori people as a more specific subcat if needed or desired. I note there is also a Category:Cook Islands people as well as Category:Cook Island Māori. In any event, the categories intended for individuals should probably be named cat:X people to avoid ambiguity, and it's also reasonably standard, so agreed that Category:New Zealand Māori and Category:Cook Island Māori need renaming by tacking on "people" to the end, if indeed they are to be maintained.-- cjllw | TALK 08:27, 23 November 2006 (UTC) reply
    • I don't think it would be too much of a problem - that has been the category name for quite a while, and it was only the recent attempted change that prompted me to bring this here (apparently that itself was prompted by the creation of the CI category). As long as it is made clear in the category that it is for people of (NZ) Māori descent rather than (CI) Māori descent (who are rarely if ever known simply as "Māori"), there shouldn't be much of a problem. There would still be the problem that it's a subcat of Category:New Zealand people, but I don't think it would be too difficult to turn a slightly blind eye to that one since those Māori not actually New Zealand citizens will be of fairly recent NZ descent. Grutness... wha? 11:05, 23 November 2006 (UTC) reply
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Category:Wikipedia articles vulnerable to vandalism

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The result of the debate was deleted by TexasAndroid. Whisp e ring 18:47, 24 November 2006 (UTC) Category:Wikipedia articles vulnerable to vandalism ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs) reply
Delete -- To avoid encouraging vandalism to vulnerable pages, only administrators can view Special:Unwatchedpages, a page which performs essentially the same function as Category:Wikipedia articles vulnerable to vandalism. There's no reason to advertise the vulnerability of an article to vandalism, thereby encouraging readers to vandalize it. The rationale for the deletion of this category is discussed in general terms in WP:BEANS. John254 04:02, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

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Category:Screaming Jets DVDs

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The result of the debate was delete. -- RobertG ♬ talk 12:44, 11 December 2006 (UTC) reply

Category:Screaming Jets DVDs ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Transferred from PROD as PROD does not and should not handle categories 132.205.93.88 03:23, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

not especially notable, plus this band only seems to have one DVD so there is no need for a category just for their dvds 17:46, 20 November 2006 user:Raining girl
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Category:Internet companies of Ireland

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The result of the debate was keep (after problems with category text were removed). -- RobertG ♬ talk 12:47, 11 December 2006 (UTC) reply

Category:Internet companies of Ireland ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Transferred from PROD as PROD does not and should not handle categories 132.205.93.88 03:23, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

Article is in the wrong place (i.e. "category" name space), is clearly an advertisement ("our competencies are ...") and is not notable 15:25, 19 November 2006 user:Sony-youth
note: I deleted inappropriate category text from this category. 132.205.93.88 03:23, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply
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Pro-life and pro-choice by profession

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The result of the debate was delete. -- RobertG ♬ talk 18:04, 28 November 2006 (UTC) reply

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Military and war museums

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The result of the debate was merge. the wub "?!" 19:15, 6 December 2006 (UTC) reply
Category:Military museums ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs) and Category:War and conflict museums ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs) into Category:Military and war museums ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

  • Merge: broadly speaking, all war museums deal with the military to some degree, and all military museums deal with war to some degree; certainly, in practice, there don't appear to be any museums that cover one but entirely omit the other. Thus, there seems no reason to maintain an artificial distinction between these two categories. The issue has been discussed by the Military history WikiProject, and no objections to the merge have been raised. Kirill Lokshin 02:28, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Merge - This simply makes sense. George J. Bendo 10:22, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Disagree with merge It is a logical way of subdividing the parent category. I like the scope of both categories since the number of entries in each is appropriate IMHO. The current setup gives a nice amount of room for future expansion. Royalbroil  Talk   Contrib 14:24, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply
    • But what's the criterion being used to subdivide here? We can't figure out any real distinction between the two, and the division of articles seems fairly random (indeed, most of the articles seem to be in both categories anyways). If the only issue is size, it would be better to simply apply the same categorization by country that's used for other museum categories here, rather than keeping two root categories without a clear definition of what goes into each. Kirill Lokshin 18:24, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply
      • Great response! I was thinking that the war and conflict category would contain articles about war and conflict museums, and that the military category would contain military non-war museums. If in both categories, then an article would be in the war category by default. Since you state that system would places nearly all the articles in the war category, then I would be in favor of merging and subdividing by country instead per Kirill's last comment. Royalbroil  Talk   Contrib 04:37, 22 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Merge. If the category grows too big separate it geographically. Pavel Vozenilek 21:43, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Merge - The only distinction I can think of here, would be to isolate those members or facets of the military which did not/do not see combat. However, I think the merger name covers this well enough. - jc37 08:37, 22 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Merge per nomination and discussion at WP:MILHIST. Carom 15:08, 22 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Merge per nomination and discussion at WP:MILHIST.-- Dryzen 19:01, 24 November 2006 (UTC) reply
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Category:2000s Video Games

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The result of the debate was delete. the wub "?!" 19:53, 6 December 2006 (UTC) reply
Category:2000s Video Games ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Delete, superseded by Category:2000_computer_and_video_games Htmlism 02:01, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

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Category:The O.C. guest stars

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The result of the debate was delete. Mairi 04:43, 29 November 2006 (UTC) reply

Delete, IMHO guest star categories are clutter. -- ProveIt (talk) 01:57, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply
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Category:1990s High Honor Video Games

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The result of the debate was delete. -- RobertG ♬ talk 17:59, 28 November 2006 (UTC) reply

Category:1990s High Honor Video Games ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Delete, It just seems fishy, I can't put my finger on it. I wanted to start a discussion on it. One of the guidelines for making categories said to avoid "important x's" and this seems to be a case of that. Htmlism 01:36, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

Delete original research / POV. Arbitrary cutoffs. Andre ( talk) 01:47, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply
Delete - I messed up on this one, I agree. I wanted to make what 2000s Video Games is now. ( Tigerghost 02:11, 21 November 2006 (UTC)) reply
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Category:Robot Chicken voice actors

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The result of the debate was delete. -- RobertG ♬ talk 17:58, 28 November 2006 (UTC) reply

Category:Robot Chicken voice actors ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Delete, This information is better served by being a list. MakeRocketGoNow 00:05, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

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Category:Kim Possible voice actors

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The result of the debate was delete. -- RobertG ♬ talk 17:56, 28 November 2006 (UTC) reply

Category:Kim Possible voice actors ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Delete, This information is better served by being a list. MakeRocketGoNow 00:03, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

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