- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. I recommend not bundling articles together unless a single rationale can be applied to all of them. Here, each organization stands on its own merits, and it is hard to discern a consensus when several non-equivalent entries are in the mix. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 05:12, 26 June 2020 (UTC)
AfDs for this article:
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Vancouver Furious George ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Not seeing WP:GNG. Club teams are pay-to-play and "national championships" aren't really that due to the pay-to-play nature and the emergence of semi-pro leagues that dilute the talent pool. Also nominating other non-notable ultimate entities that do not satisfy GNG. Willsome429 ( say hey or see my edits!) 13:36, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of British Columbia-related deletion discussions. Willsome429 ( say hey or see my edits!) 13:36, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
- Seattle Riot (Ultimate) ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Seattle Sockeye ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Disc Northwest ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Delete fails WP:ORG/ WP:NSPORT. No relaible source, not a single source describing topic of the article. 4 of the sources seem spam. Drat8sub ( talk) 13:41, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Washington-related deletion discussions. Willsome429 ( say hey or see my edits!) 13:43, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
- Keep (most) The articles are in a poor state, but it wasn't hard to find multiple independent secondary sources (which seem reliable enough) for most of them, which should satisfy
WP:GNG. Just FYI regarding the national championships, there are financial barriers to playing any sport; the semi-professional leagues have non-overlapping schedules with the club season (and the dilution of the club talent pool is minimal, if anything its the other way around); most of the cited national championships happened before the existence of semi-professional leagues; the articles also cite worlds level championships. The three clubs here have won major international tournaments held on 4-year cycles, and to quote this line from
WP:NSPORT: "that sports figures are likely to meet Wikipedia's basic standards of inclusion if they have, for example, participated in a major international amateur or professional competition at the highest level"
AZ
02:08, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
- Also, there were two prior AfDs 1 2 that were consensus keep. AZ 03:12, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
- To augment comment from AndyZ: The Championships are run by the National Governing Body for Sport in the US, part of the USOPC and World Flying Disc Federation, part of the IOC. These events are analogous to other smaller international sporting events which are part of the Olympic family. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Ahgoff (
talk •
contribs)
21:15, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
- Note this was the user's first edit. Ahgoff, I'm not sure how that six-degrees line of reasoning implies notability. Willsome429 ( say hey or see my edits!) 18:52, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America 1000 11:40, 9 June 2020 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America 1000 11:40, 9 June 2020 (UTC)
- Keep The USA Ultimate Club National Championships have been contested for men since 1979 and women since 1981. Vancouver Furious George have won three championships, multiple Canadian national championships, and are still competing at the highest level today. Seattle Sockeye are the defending club national champions and have won four club titles overall. Seattle Riot have won two national championships and are still competing at the very highest level. The statement that "club teams are pay-to-play and 'national championships' aren't really that due to the pay-to-play nature and the emergence of semi-pro leagues that dilute the talent pool" is completely non-sensical. First, there are many "pay-to-play" (read: amateur) sports leagues, teams, and individuals that are worthy of inclusion on Wikipedia. Second, there is no ambiguity about whether the USAU Club National Championships represent a true national championship of ultimate frisbee. Third, semi-pro leagues such as the American Ultimate Disc League are comprised of the same players that compete in the USAU club series. If anything, the AUDL talent pool is diluted by most players preferring to exclusively play in the USAU club series. As quoted above from WP:NSPORT: "sports figures are likely to meet Wikipedia's basic standards of inclusion if they have, for example, participated in a major international amateur or professional competition at the highest level" [ [1]] 13:57, 9 June 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 06:55, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sports-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 06:55, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spartaz Humbug! 22:54, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spartaz Humbug! 22:54, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
- In case it wasn't clear from my comment above, I had added multiple secondary sources and cleared a few of the dead links. There are many more secondary sources from Ultimate media, which probably would fall under WP:N but I didn't want to start a debate about that. The previous state of the articles does not imply lack of notability ( WP:ARTN/ WP:NEXIST). AZ 05:07, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
- Delete. No media coverage to speak of. I've lived in Vancouver or the lower mainland for many decades and had never heard of these guys until now, and I read the Vancouver Sun six days a week and watch the sports channels every day. Clarityfiend ( talk) 05:16, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
- Note: I've linked to this AfD on Talk:Ultimate (sport) in the hope that the keep side of the debate gets argued more lucidly.— Charles Stewart (talk) 11:51, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. I recommend not bundling articles together unless a single rationale can be applied to all of them. Here, each organization stands on its own merits, and it is hard to discern a consensus when several non-equivalent entries are in the mix. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 05:12, 26 June 2020 (UTC)
AfDs for this article:
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Vancouver Furious George ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Not seeing WP:GNG. Club teams are pay-to-play and "national championships" aren't really that due to the pay-to-play nature and the emergence of semi-pro leagues that dilute the talent pool. Also nominating other non-notable ultimate entities that do not satisfy GNG. Willsome429 ( say hey or see my edits!) 13:36, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of British Columbia-related deletion discussions. Willsome429 ( say hey or see my edits!) 13:36, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
- Seattle Riot (Ultimate) ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Seattle Sockeye ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Disc Northwest ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Delete fails WP:ORG/ WP:NSPORT. No relaible source, not a single source describing topic of the article. 4 of the sources seem spam. Drat8sub ( talk) 13:41, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Washington-related deletion discussions. Willsome429 ( say hey or see my edits!) 13:43, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
- Keep (most) The articles are in a poor state, but it wasn't hard to find multiple independent secondary sources (which seem reliable enough) for most of them, which should satisfy
WP:GNG. Just FYI regarding the national championships, there are financial barriers to playing any sport; the semi-professional leagues have non-overlapping schedules with the club season (and the dilution of the club talent pool is minimal, if anything its the other way around); most of the cited national championships happened before the existence of semi-professional leagues; the articles also cite worlds level championships. The three clubs here have won major international tournaments held on 4-year cycles, and to quote this line from
WP:NSPORT: "that sports figures are likely to meet Wikipedia's basic standards of inclusion if they have, for example, participated in a major international amateur or professional competition at the highest level"
AZ
02:08, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
- Also, there were two prior AfDs 1 2 that were consensus keep. AZ 03:12, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
- To augment comment from AndyZ: The Championships are run by the National Governing Body for Sport in the US, part of the USOPC and World Flying Disc Federation, part of the IOC. These events are analogous to other smaller international sporting events which are part of the Olympic family. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Ahgoff (
talk •
contribs)
21:15, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
- Note this was the user's first edit. Ahgoff, I'm not sure how that six-degrees line of reasoning implies notability. Willsome429 ( say hey or see my edits!) 18:52, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America 1000 11:40, 9 June 2020 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America 1000 11:40, 9 June 2020 (UTC)
- Keep The USA Ultimate Club National Championships have been contested for men since 1979 and women since 1981. Vancouver Furious George have won three championships, multiple Canadian national championships, and are still competing at the highest level today. Seattle Sockeye are the defending club national champions and have won four club titles overall. Seattle Riot have won two national championships and are still competing at the very highest level. The statement that "club teams are pay-to-play and 'national championships' aren't really that due to the pay-to-play nature and the emergence of semi-pro leagues that dilute the talent pool" is completely non-sensical. First, there are many "pay-to-play" (read: amateur) sports leagues, teams, and individuals that are worthy of inclusion on Wikipedia. Second, there is no ambiguity about whether the USAU Club National Championships represent a true national championship of ultimate frisbee. Third, semi-pro leagues such as the American Ultimate Disc League are comprised of the same players that compete in the USAU club series. If anything, the AUDL talent pool is diluted by most players preferring to exclusively play in the USAU club series. As quoted above from WP:NSPORT: "sports figures are likely to meet Wikipedia's basic standards of inclusion if they have, for example, participated in a major international amateur or professional competition at the highest level" [ [1]] 13:57, 9 June 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 06:55, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sports-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 06:55, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spartaz Humbug! 22:54, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spartaz Humbug! 22:54, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
- In case it wasn't clear from my comment above, I had added multiple secondary sources and cleared a few of the dead links. There are many more secondary sources from Ultimate media, which probably would fall under WP:N but I didn't want to start a debate about that. The previous state of the articles does not imply lack of notability ( WP:ARTN/ WP:NEXIST). AZ 05:07, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
- Delete. No media coverage to speak of. I've lived in Vancouver or the lower mainland for many decades and had never heard of these guys until now, and I read the Vancouver Sun six days a week and watch the sports channels every day. Clarityfiend ( talk) 05:16, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
- Note: I've linked to this AfD on Talk:Ultimate (sport) in the hope that the keep side of the debate gets argued more lucidly.— Charles Stewart (talk) 11:51, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.