![]() | This discussion was subject to a
deletion review on 2010 December 3. For an explanation of the process, see Wikipedia:Deletion review. |
The result was delete. Sockpuppets have been ignored, and apparent single-purpose !voters have been very heavily discounted here. Courcelles ( talk) 06:26, 26 July 2010 (UTC) reply
![]() | If you came here because someone asked you to, or you read a message on another website, please note that this is
not a majority vote, but instead a discussion among Wikipedia contributors. Wikipedia has
policies and guidelines regarding the encyclopedia's content, and
consensus (agreement) is gauged based on the merits of the arguments, not by counting votes.
However, you are invited to participate and your opinion is welcome. Remember to assume good faith on the part of others and to sign your posts on this page by adding ~~~~ at the end. Note: Comments may be tagged as follows: suspected single-purpose accounts:{{subst:
spa|username}} ; suspected
canvassed users: {{subst:
canvassed|username}} ; accounts blocked for
sockpuppetry: {{subst:
csm|username}} or {{subst:
csp|username}} . |
Non-notable youth chess player, previously deleted at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Valeri Lilov. This is essentially the same article with somewhat more puffery, and the same external links from the body of the article formatted as references. While possibly impressive if you just glance at the wall of text in the "References" section without reading them, they are either trivial, primary sources, written by himself or his employers, or a combination of all three. The only reference that is independent and nontrivial is this, and if shaking hands with a sitting head of state met WP:BIO, I'd have an article too. Falls well short of WP:GNG, WP:BIO, and WP:ATHLETE. — Korath ( Talk) 14:48, 19 July 2010 (UTC) reply
Dear Wikipedia Admins, This is Wangshujuan, the creator of the article “Valeri Lilov.” After an extensive research on why my article was repeatedly declined to be published, another Wikipedia admin/associate told me to read through the official Wikipedia article on notability and find proofs on why my article is about a notable subject, whose information is proven by independent secondary sources. The admin also mentioned that my article is completely publishable by all Wikipedia rules and if he was responsible for it, he would definitely let it be published in its present form. Here are a few proofs I took from the following Wikipedia page on Notability of people ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:BIO) which clearly define my subject, from the information provided in the article, as notable by Wikipedia standards. 1) “Basic Criteria: […] If the depth of coverage is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be needed to prove notability; trivial coverage of a subject by secondary sources may not be sufficient to establish notability.” The article ‘Valeri Lilov’ certainly does not provide one independent secondary source with deep coverage of his work and achievements in his field of tournament chess and private chess coaching, yet many secondary sources – websites with tournament final standings and short articles published on the internet regarding his awards in tournaments - do prove that he is a notable subject by the criteria described in the original Wikipedia passage cited above. (For more information please, review the references supporting Valeri Lilov’s tournament achievements in different countries.) 2) “Additional Criteria: […] 1. The person has received a well-known and significant award or honor, or has been nominated for one several times. “ Valeri Lilov has won a number of prestigious tournaments throughout Europe during his chess career so far and all the verifiable events won have been cited and properly supported with legit references on his proposed Wikipedia article. One of the most significant awards is that he became a European Champion in his age division (also cited).
As seen from the references provided about Valeri Lilov chess coaching career, he is widely cited for his published works, two DVDs by ChessBase, and is also regarded as “important figure” – popular coach – by his peers and successors. I hope these proves are enough to show why the “problematic” article ‘Valeri Lilov” is about a notable subject and should be created to be part of Wikipedia. Please, let me know if you need more proofs for notability or more precise citations from the actual article ‘Valeri Lilov’ itself. Please, take some time and review the many references provided to support this article’s information and you will be convinced of the legit notability of this person. Thank you for your cooperation! Sincerely, Wangshujuan |
The article for Valeri Lilov, currently nominated for deletion, provides a number of additional secondary sources, citing Valeri Lilov's achievements in different internationally recognized tournaments and competitions. The present references provide also an article, written in Bulgarian and translated into English via online translator, showing Valeri Lilov, receiving an award from the president of the Republic of Bulgaria. The contents of the article is carefully filtered from the previous deleted version and new information is added, as well, so that the new form of the article is properly verified statement by statement through each of the references given at the end of the article. Wangshujuan |
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Worthwhile addition. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.23.139.148 ( talk) 04:11, 21 July 2010 (UTC) reply
-- Dmncmm ( talk) 10:00, 21 July 2010 (UTC) reply
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Monokroussos http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauri_Shankar http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Heisman http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_De_La_Maza http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leontxo_Garc%C3%ADa you will be ashamed to claim that they are more notable people than FM Valeri Lilov. Why are they on Wikipedia and FM Valeri Lilov has to be deleted? I ask contributors who are also professional chess players to comment here. FM Valeri Lilov has many achievements (isn't European Champion a notable title?) both in his chess and coaching career and they’ve been achieved at such a young age. Isn’t that called “notable” for Wikipedia? Please, before deleting indiscriminately, check up what you have accepted in the past as notable. Thanks, Alexis Alexis880507 ( talk) 13:07, 21 July 2010 (UTC) reply
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Valeri Lilov is a very respected teacher and is known for his high quality and pedagogic way of teaching. After a thoroughly examination of your games he will send you the video recorded session as well homework. There was mentioned that he does not give lectures and lessons for free; who does? Can you get a professional painter painting your house for free? There are dozens of teachers on Playchess.com and ICC, and NONE of them give lessons for free, so that is a strange, to say at least, comment to make. As for his FM title, well, he has one, plus 2 IM norms. And for his games, which as far as i know were also doubted to be real, a real chessplayer simply can check them on a database, in my case Chessbase 10. All the allegations are therefore false, and if someone wants to say otherwise, i would be glad to reject them. Yours sincerely, Laotse1970 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Laotse1970 ( talk • contribs) 15:19, 21 July 2010 (UTC) reply
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To say most 'KEEP' messages are sockpuppetry is a cop out, because the KEEP messages are true. FIDE Master Valeri Lilov is very noteworthy, he is one of the most popular chess teachers there is today. He is more popular than most IM's and even GM's. His dedication in chess with lectures, teaching, training is phenomenal. When he started teaching at the age of eleven, he never looked back. Vastly becoming one of the most versatile trainers using the latest technologies with the most services I have seen. Don't delete him because he is not an IM or GM. He spends most of his time teaching. If he spent most of his time playing chess, he would have been a GM a long time ago. Valeri is a very bright, upcoming prospect for wikipedia, to delete him from your resources is absurd. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.98.100.130 ( talk) 09:38, 23 July 2010 (UTC) reply
- is an author of two chessbase DVD's (Chessbase is the most famous puplisher of digital chesscontent, at least in Europe) - records lectures on very popular chess websites (chesslectures.com for example) - gives lives broadcasts on playchess.com (for free, not that it matters in this subject) Makes him a publicly known person in the chess community, which is, in my opinion an interpretation of the wikipedia rules a reason for leaving the page on wikipedia. This can be verified by searching on the chessbase.com website for the word 'lilov' in both the homepage and shop section. Everyone involved with chess will recognise Chessbase as a valid source.
Thank you for reading my comment, I'm not a regular Wiki contributor (I am a regular reader!) so I might made a mistake in doing this. 81.83.18.153 ( talk) 08:25, 24 July 2010 (UTC) reply
Comment - Today I came across this article for deletion and after reading the comments and the article itself, I tried to correct it appropriately and also include more links to secondary sources to verify the information, provided for this young Bulgarian chess player. Tomorrow, I hope to find and supply you with more links to independent sources. Please, don’t delete this article outright and give a chance to the young to develop and receive recognition from reknowned websites like Wikipedia. I hope that if someone else helps me correct this article and/or provides me with valuable advice on how to further improve it, it has place on Wikipedia. Thanks! IvanSokolov ( talk) 17:24, 24 July 2010 (UTC) reply
To further support the legit nobility of the subject of this article, I have provided a number of additional independent sources, citing various information about Valeri Lilov. Among the additional independent sources, cited in the present form of the article are The Official Bulgarian Correspondence Chess Website, The Official Website of Rakovski Middle School in Varna, and the completely unrelated to Valeri Lilov website www.BgSever.info.
You wrote that “if he hasn't been written about in any depth by any chess publication anywhere, he isn’t famous”. The fact is: he has been written about in considerable depth in many chess and non-chess publications. Should his Wikipedia Page be deleted? Can anyone help further improve this article, if anything else is needed in terms of formating, proper Wikipedia language, or anything else? I am looking forward to reading Wikipedia experts’ responses here!
IvanSokolov (
talk)
18:08, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
reply
![]() | This discussion was subject to a
deletion review on 2010 December 3. For an explanation of the process, see Wikipedia:Deletion review. |
The result was delete. Sockpuppets have been ignored, and apparent single-purpose !voters have been very heavily discounted here. Courcelles ( talk) 06:26, 26 July 2010 (UTC) reply
![]() | If you came here because someone asked you to, or you read a message on another website, please note that this is
not a majority vote, but instead a discussion among Wikipedia contributors. Wikipedia has
policies and guidelines regarding the encyclopedia's content, and
consensus (agreement) is gauged based on the merits of the arguments, not by counting votes.
However, you are invited to participate and your opinion is welcome. Remember to assume good faith on the part of others and to sign your posts on this page by adding ~~~~ at the end. Note: Comments may be tagged as follows: suspected single-purpose accounts:{{subst:
spa|username}} ; suspected
canvassed users: {{subst:
canvassed|username}} ; accounts blocked for
sockpuppetry: {{subst:
csm|username}} or {{subst:
csp|username}} . |
Non-notable youth chess player, previously deleted at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Valeri Lilov. This is essentially the same article with somewhat more puffery, and the same external links from the body of the article formatted as references. While possibly impressive if you just glance at the wall of text in the "References" section without reading them, they are either trivial, primary sources, written by himself or his employers, or a combination of all three. The only reference that is independent and nontrivial is this, and if shaking hands with a sitting head of state met WP:BIO, I'd have an article too. Falls well short of WP:GNG, WP:BIO, and WP:ATHLETE. — Korath ( Talk) 14:48, 19 July 2010 (UTC) reply
Dear Wikipedia Admins, This is Wangshujuan, the creator of the article “Valeri Lilov.” After an extensive research on why my article was repeatedly declined to be published, another Wikipedia admin/associate told me to read through the official Wikipedia article on notability and find proofs on why my article is about a notable subject, whose information is proven by independent secondary sources. The admin also mentioned that my article is completely publishable by all Wikipedia rules and if he was responsible for it, he would definitely let it be published in its present form. Here are a few proofs I took from the following Wikipedia page on Notability of people ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:BIO) which clearly define my subject, from the information provided in the article, as notable by Wikipedia standards. 1) “Basic Criteria: […] If the depth of coverage is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be needed to prove notability; trivial coverage of a subject by secondary sources may not be sufficient to establish notability.” The article ‘Valeri Lilov’ certainly does not provide one independent secondary source with deep coverage of his work and achievements in his field of tournament chess and private chess coaching, yet many secondary sources – websites with tournament final standings and short articles published on the internet regarding his awards in tournaments - do prove that he is a notable subject by the criteria described in the original Wikipedia passage cited above. (For more information please, review the references supporting Valeri Lilov’s tournament achievements in different countries.) 2) “Additional Criteria: […] 1. The person has received a well-known and significant award or honor, or has been nominated for one several times. “ Valeri Lilov has won a number of prestigious tournaments throughout Europe during his chess career so far and all the verifiable events won have been cited and properly supported with legit references on his proposed Wikipedia article. One of the most significant awards is that he became a European Champion in his age division (also cited).
As seen from the references provided about Valeri Lilov chess coaching career, he is widely cited for his published works, two DVDs by ChessBase, and is also regarded as “important figure” – popular coach – by his peers and successors. I hope these proves are enough to show why the “problematic” article ‘Valeri Lilov” is about a notable subject and should be created to be part of Wikipedia. Please, let me know if you need more proofs for notability or more precise citations from the actual article ‘Valeri Lilov’ itself. Please, take some time and review the many references provided to support this article’s information and you will be convinced of the legit notability of this person. Thank you for your cooperation! Sincerely, Wangshujuan |
The article for Valeri Lilov, currently nominated for deletion, provides a number of additional secondary sources, citing Valeri Lilov's achievements in different internationally recognized tournaments and competitions. The present references provide also an article, written in Bulgarian and translated into English via online translator, showing Valeri Lilov, receiving an award from the president of the Republic of Bulgaria. The contents of the article is carefully filtered from the previous deleted version and new information is added, as well, so that the new form of the article is properly verified statement by statement through each of the references given at the end of the article. Wangshujuan |
|
Worthwhile addition. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.23.139.148 ( talk) 04:11, 21 July 2010 (UTC) reply
-- Dmncmm ( talk) 10:00, 21 July 2010 (UTC) reply
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Monokroussos http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauri_Shankar http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Heisman http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_De_La_Maza http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leontxo_Garc%C3%ADa you will be ashamed to claim that they are more notable people than FM Valeri Lilov. Why are they on Wikipedia and FM Valeri Lilov has to be deleted? I ask contributors who are also professional chess players to comment here. FM Valeri Lilov has many achievements (isn't European Champion a notable title?) both in his chess and coaching career and they’ve been achieved at such a young age. Isn’t that called “notable” for Wikipedia? Please, before deleting indiscriminately, check up what you have accepted in the past as notable. Thanks, Alexis Alexis880507 ( talk) 13:07, 21 July 2010 (UTC) reply
|
Valeri Lilov is a very respected teacher and is known for his high quality and pedagogic way of teaching. After a thoroughly examination of your games he will send you the video recorded session as well homework. There was mentioned that he does not give lectures and lessons for free; who does? Can you get a professional painter painting your house for free? There are dozens of teachers on Playchess.com and ICC, and NONE of them give lessons for free, so that is a strange, to say at least, comment to make. As for his FM title, well, he has one, plus 2 IM norms. And for his games, which as far as i know were also doubted to be real, a real chessplayer simply can check them on a database, in my case Chessbase 10. All the allegations are therefore false, and if someone wants to say otherwise, i would be glad to reject them. Yours sincerely, Laotse1970 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Laotse1970 ( talk • contribs) 15:19, 21 July 2010 (UTC) reply
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To say most 'KEEP' messages are sockpuppetry is a cop out, because the KEEP messages are true. FIDE Master Valeri Lilov is very noteworthy, he is one of the most popular chess teachers there is today. He is more popular than most IM's and even GM's. His dedication in chess with lectures, teaching, training is phenomenal. When he started teaching at the age of eleven, he never looked back. Vastly becoming one of the most versatile trainers using the latest technologies with the most services I have seen. Don't delete him because he is not an IM or GM. He spends most of his time teaching. If he spent most of his time playing chess, he would have been a GM a long time ago. Valeri is a very bright, upcoming prospect for wikipedia, to delete him from your resources is absurd. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.98.100.130 ( talk) 09:38, 23 July 2010 (UTC) reply
- is an author of two chessbase DVD's (Chessbase is the most famous puplisher of digital chesscontent, at least in Europe) - records lectures on very popular chess websites (chesslectures.com for example) - gives lives broadcasts on playchess.com (for free, not that it matters in this subject) Makes him a publicly known person in the chess community, which is, in my opinion an interpretation of the wikipedia rules a reason for leaving the page on wikipedia. This can be verified by searching on the chessbase.com website for the word 'lilov' in both the homepage and shop section. Everyone involved with chess will recognise Chessbase as a valid source.
Thank you for reading my comment, I'm not a regular Wiki contributor (I am a regular reader!) so I might made a mistake in doing this. 81.83.18.153 ( talk) 08:25, 24 July 2010 (UTC) reply
Comment - Today I came across this article for deletion and after reading the comments and the article itself, I tried to correct it appropriately and also include more links to secondary sources to verify the information, provided for this young Bulgarian chess player. Tomorrow, I hope to find and supply you with more links to independent sources. Please, don’t delete this article outright and give a chance to the young to develop and receive recognition from reknowned websites like Wikipedia. I hope that if someone else helps me correct this article and/or provides me with valuable advice on how to further improve it, it has place on Wikipedia. Thanks! IvanSokolov ( talk) 17:24, 24 July 2010 (UTC) reply
To further support the legit nobility of the subject of this article, I have provided a number of additional independent sources, citing various information about Valeri Lilov. Among the additional independent sources, cited in the present form of the article are The Official Bulgarian Correspondence Chess Website, The Official Website of Rakovski Middle School in Varna, and the completely unrelated to Valeri Lilov website www.BgSever.info.
You wrote that “if he hasn't been written about in any depth by any chess publication anywhere, he isn’t famous”. The fact is: he has been written about in considerable depth in many chess and non-chess publications. Should his Wikipedia Page be deleted? Can anyone help further improve this article, if anything else is needed in terms of formating, proper Wikipedia language, or anything else? I am looking forward to reading Wikipedia experts’ responses here!
IvanSokolov (
talk)
18:08, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
reply