- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. ♠ PMC♠ (talk) 05:06, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
Tirthak Saha
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Fails WP:ANYBIO. Being on the Forbes list is not sufficient to meet notability especially as he is not on the 30 under 30 but on one of the 30 lists of 30 under 30 (900 people in total) and for the moment he has achieved nothing of note. The sources are not sufficient to show he meets notability requirements. The article creator claims no COI and has just been in contact with the subject to request his photo. Dom from Paris ( talk) 06:52, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. Dom from Paris ( talk) 06:55, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Science-related deletion discussions. Dom from Paris ( talk) 06:55, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. Dom from Paris ( talk) 06:55, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. Bakazaka ( talk) 07:19, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
- Keep This article very clearly meets WP:ANYBIO. "The person has received a well-known and significant award or honor, or has been nominated for such an award several times.". Forbes 30 Under 30 is a significant national award. The nature of the Forbes List is to highlight distinguished and notable individuals in a given field. There is no singular "30 Under 30" list - every year Forbes releases lists in 30 categories that comprise the "30 Under 30". Any person on Forbes 30 Under 30 is on a specific category list. [1] Further, 900 people out of 54,000,000 people eligible (age 18-29) in the US. [2] which makes the subject part of 0.00167% of the eligible population. As per the sources of the article, he does in fact have significant accomplishments, including being a finalist in the NASA RASC-AL scientific contest, his scholarly work on "Planitia-Hellas Human Advanced Martian Environment (PHAME)" and his project with American Electric Power, for which a $1 Billion initiative to modernize the electrical grid is being implemented The coverage of these avoids WP:BLP1E
Lastly, here is a short list of articles that are deemed notable primarily for their recognition of the Forbes 30 Under 30 List:
Danielle Fong
Himansu Gupta
Henry Lin
Alvin Salehi
Nikil Viswanathan
Justin Lewis (entrepreneur)
Ryan Williams (entrepreneur)
Param Jaggi
Amber Yang
--
Ngunmo (
talk)
15:07, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
References
- ^ "30 Under 30: 2018". Forbes.
- ^ Bureau, US Census. "National Population by Characteristics: 2010-2017". www.census.gov.
- Comment Bringing up WP:OTHER is helpful here, as the deletion discussions of the cited examples specifically cite non-Forbes 30 under 30 notability criteria for keeping those articles, e.g. winning awards or meeting other academic criteria. If there are multiple independent reliable sources that show the subject meeting other notability criteria, then notability would not hinge solely on whether Forbes 30 under 30 is considered a significant award. Bakazaka ( talk) 23:13, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
- Comment Thank you Bakazaka. It would appear that WP:OTHER is relevant here indeed. I cited those articles to show that the subject's notability should not hinge solely on whether Forbes 30 under 30 is considered a significant award, as the cited articles were deemed notable for their contributions/awards in addition to their Forbes 30 Under 30 awards per WP:BASIC. For example, Amber Yang won "the second-highest award at the 2017 Intel International Science and Engineering Fair" in addition to the Forbes award. It is not likely that Yang would have been deemed notable based solely on the Intel award. While I am not saying the subject is notable just because other articles exist with awards of similar caliber, the subject we are discussing has 6 instances in addition to the Forbes award that document an award received, a major contribution to his field or both. These instances are all well-cited by independent secondary sources. The article clearly falls well within WP:BASIC and does not fall under WP:BLP1E. -- Ngunmo ( talk) 15:47, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
- Comment The case for notability would be clearer if the article contained references to significant coverage of those accomplishments by independent reliable sources. Currently the references include an alumni blog, the subject's own work, a YouTube video from the subject's employer, and a listing of participants in a NASA event, none of which count toward notability. Bakazaka ( talk) 01:49, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
- Comment That's perfectly reasonable and very helpful advice, thank you. The inclusion of the subject's work and the list of NASA finalists was to show factuality rather than notability but I absolutely see your point. I have edited the article to include several new sources. [1] [2] [3] [4] -- Ngunmo ( talk) 03:02, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
References
- ^ "Tirthak Saha, rejected by DU, Delhi boy features in Forbes 30 Under 30 List". The Financial Express. 22 November 2017.
- ^ "The inspiring story of Tirthak Saha, who is now on Forbes' 30 Under 30 list". GQ India. 29 November 2017.
- ^ "Young Fort Wayne engineer with Indiana Michigan Power makes Forbes energy list | News, Sports, Jobs - News-Sentinel". News-Sentinel.
- ^ "Not bright enough for DU, but fit to join Zuckerberg, Malala on Forbes list - Times of India". The Times of India.
- My mistake about the 30 under 30 the trouble is that when people use this as a way of showing that the person is notable they never say that they are on a specific list and give the impression that there are only 30 recipients and not 900. That said all the articles are based on his being named on the list and some put him in the same class as Zuckerberg which is ridiculous. For the moment all he has achieved is getting on the list. Looks like a WP:BLP1E. And a case of WP:TOOSOON. Dom from Paris ( talk) 06:04, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
- I understand the confusion about 30 Under 30 - I've corrected the article to specify the category for the award. All of the sources were cited because they give significant and unbiased mention to the subject's other achievements in addition to the Forbes award which I referenced in my earlier comments. Regarding the Zuckerberg comparison, it is not uncommon for journalists to reference other notable recipients of the same award and they were making this comparison on the basis of being on the Forbes 30 Under 30 list. It is factually correct that the subject earned the same award as Mark Zuckerberg. Please correct me if i'm wrong but if you read the cited sources, they do not make much claim of similarity beyond the fact that the subject and Zuckerberg were both 30 Under 30 Recipients. I will concede that I am new to Wikipedia so please let me know if there are other things that can be done to better the article. -- Ngunmo ( talk) 15:47, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
- Zuckerberg's claim to notability on Wikipedia is not dependent on his listing in the Forbes 30 under 30. But in this article the multiple, reliable, independent sources supporting notability are driven by the Forbes listing. That's a WP:BLP1E pattern. The other sources do not support notability, as the article's creator has said. So WP:OVERCOME seems relevant here. Bakazaka ( talk) 17:32, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, – Joe ( talk) 14:38, 28 July 2018 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, – Joe ( talk) 14:38, 28 July 2018 (UTC)
- Delete per nom and the extensive arguments by Bakazaka. ∯WBG converse 14:00, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
- Delete per nom and Bakazaka's arguments. Does not satisfy WP:GNG. -- 1l2l3k ( talk) 20:27, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
- Weak Keep Regardless of which '30 under 30' list he is on, he is on one. Gives him some notability by an outside source, albeit weak notability. I'm for a keep, but there's not many reasons to do so. Redditaddict69 ( talk) 22:19, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. ♠ PMC♠ (talk) 05:06, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
Tirthak Saha
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Tirthak Saha ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Fails WP:ANYBIO. Being on the Forbes list is not sufficient to meet notability especially as he is not on the 30 under 30 but on one of the 30 lists of 30 under 30 (900 people in total) and for the moment he has achieved nothing of note. The sources are not sufficient to show he meets notability requirements. The article creator claims no COI and has just been in contact with the subject to request his photo. Dom from Paris ( talk) 06:52, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. Dom from Paris ( talk) 06:55, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Science-related deletion discussions. Dom from Paris ( talk) 06:55, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. Dom from Paris ( talk) 06:55, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. Bakazaka ( talk) 07:19, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
- Keep This article very clearly meets WP:ANYBIO. "The person has received a well-known and significant award or honor, or has been nominated for such an award several times.". Forbes 30 Under 30 is a significant national award. The nature of the Forbes List is to highlight distinguished and notable individuals in a given field. There is no singular "30 Under 30" list - every year Forbes releases lists in 30 categories that comprise the "30 Under 30". Any person on Forbes 30 Under 30 is on a specific category list. [1] Further, 900 people out of 54,000,000 people eligible (age 18-29) in the US. [2] which makes the subject part of 0.00167% of the eligible population. As per the sources of the article, he does in fact have significant accomplishments, including being a finalist in the NASA RASC-AL scientific contest, his scholarly work on "Planitia-Hellas Human Advanced Martian Environment (PHAME)" and his project with American Electric Power, for which a $1 Billion initiative to modernize the electrical grid is being implemented The coverage of these avoids WP:BLP1E
Lastly, here is a short list of articles that are deemed notable primarily for their recognition of the Forbes 30 Under 30 List:
Danielle Fong
Himansu Gupta
Henry Lin
Alvin Salehi
Nikil Viswanathan
Justin Lewis (entrepreneur)
Ryan Williams (entrepreneur)
Param Jaggi
Amber Yang
--
Ngunmo (
talk)
15:07, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
References
- ^ "30 Under 30: 2018". Forbes.
- ^ Bureau, US Census. "National Population by Characteristics: 2010-2017". www.census.gov.
- Comment Bringing up WP:OTHER is helpful here, as the deletion discussions of the cited examples specifically cite non-Forbes 30 under 30 notability criteria for keeping those articles, e.g. winning awards or meeting other academic criteria. If there are multiple independent reliable sources that show the subject meeting other notability criteria, then notability would not hinge solely on whether Forbes 30 under 30 is considered a significant award. Bakazaka ( talk) 23:13, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
- Comment Thank you Bakazaka. It would appear that WP:OTHER is relevant here indeed. I cited those articles to show that the subject's notability should not hinge solely on whether Forbes 30 under 30 is considered a significant award, as the cited articles were deemed notable for their contributions/awards in addition to their Forbes 30 Under 30 awards per WP:BASIC. For example, Amber Yang won "the second-highest award at the 2017 Intel International Science and Engineering Fair" in addition to the Forbes award. It is not likely that Yang would have been deemed notable based solely on the Intel award. While I am not saying the subject is notable just because other articles exist with awards of similar caliber, the subject we are discussing has 6 instances in addition to the Forbes award that document an award received, a major contribution to his field or both. These instances are all well-cited by independent secondary sources. The article clearly falls well within WP:BASIC and does not fall under WP:BLP1E. -- Ngunmo ( talk) 15:47, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
- Comment The case for notability would be clearer if the article contained references to significant coverage of those accomplishments by independent reliable sources. Currently the references include an alumni blog, the subject's own work, a YouTube video from the subject's employer, and a listing of participants in a NASA event, none of which count toward notability. Bakazaka ( talk) 01:49, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
- Comment That's perfectly reasonable and very helpful advice, thank you. The inclusion of the subject's work and the list of NASA finalists was to show factuality rather than notability but I absolutely see your point. I have edited the article to include several new sources. [1] [2] [3] [4] -- Ngunmo ( talk) 03:02, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
References
- ^ "Tirthak Saha, rejected by DU, Delhi boy features in Forbes 30 Under 30 List". The Financial Express. 22 November 2017.
- ^ "The inspiring story of Tirthak Saha, who is now on Forbes' 30 Under 30 list". GQ India. 29 November 2017.
- ^ "Young Fort Wayne engineer with Indiana Michigan Power makes Forbes energy list | News, Sports, Jobs - News-Sentinel". News-Sentinel.
- ^ "Not bright enough for DU, but fit to join Zuckerberg, Malala on Forbes list - Times of India". The Times of India.
- My mistake about the 30 under 30 the trouble is that when people use this as a way of showing that the person is notable they never say that they are on a specific list and give the impression that there are only 30 recipients and not 900. That said all the articles are based on his being named on the list and some put him in the same class as Zuckerberg which is ridiculous. For the moment all he has achieved is getting on the list. Looks like a WP:BLP1E. And a case of WP:TOOSOON. Dom from Paris ( talk) 06:04, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
- I understand the confusion about 30 Under 30 - I've corrected the article to specify the category for the award. All of the sources were cited because they give significant and unbiased mention to the subject's other achievements in addition to the Forbes award which I referenced in my earlier comments. Regarding the Zuckerberg comparison, it is not uncommon for journalists to reference other notable recipients of the same award and they were making this comparison on the basis of being on the Forbes 30 Under 30 list. It is factually correct that the subject earned the same award as Mark Zuckerberg. Please correct me if i'm wrong but if you read the cited sources, they do not make much claim of similarity beyond the fact that the subject and Zuckerberg were both 30 Under 30 Recipients. I will concede that I am new to Wikipedia so please let me know if there are other things that can be done to better the article. -- Ngunmo ( talk) 15:47, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
- Zuckerberg's claim to notability on Wikipedia is not dependent on his listing in the Forbes 30 under 30. But in this article the multiple, reliable, independent sources supporting notability are driven by the Forbes listing. That's a WP:BLP1E pattern. The other sources do not support notability, as the article's creator has said. So WP:OVERCOME seems relevant here. Bakazaka ( talk) 17:32, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, – Joe ( talk) 14:38, 28 July 2018 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, – Joe ( talk) 14:38, 28 July 2018 (UTC)
- Delete per nom and the extensive arguments by Bakazaka. ∯WBG converse 14:00, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
- Delete per nom and Bakazaka's arguments. Does not satisfy WP:GNG. -- 1l2l3k ( talk) 20:27, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
- Weak Keep Regardless of which '30 under 30' list he is on, he is on one. Gives him some notability by an outside source, albeit weak notability. I'm for a keep, but there's not many reasons to do so. Redditaddict69 ( talk) 22:19, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.