- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. The article's subject is found to not be notable. — Coffee // have a cup // beans // 00:27, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
Tim Smart (healthcare administrator)
- Tim Smart (healthcare administrator) ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Delete: Fails WP:BIO Arun Kumar SINGH (Talk) 06:46, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
- Keep Chief Executive of a major London university hospital Mirrortoamermaid ( talk) 19:18, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
Keep 14th highest paid NHS manager in the UK [1]86.140.3.24 ( talk) 14:58, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 16:51, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Medicine-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 16:51, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Businesspeople-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 16:51, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
- Delete. Non-notable hospital bureaucrat. Nom or closer, please also include/treat similarly Caroline Shaw (healthcare administrator) ("...the 33rd highest paid manager in the NHS"!). Pax 07:59, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
Caroline Shaw was appointed a
CBE in the
2013 New Year Honours for services to the
NHS. She was the first-ever NHS winner of a First Women Award in 2010 in recognition of her work in improving services for cancer patients. Shaw was chosen as Patron for the 'Network National' for UK business women in 2009. She received the North West Inspiring Woman of the Year award in 2007. Shaw received Crain's Manchester Businesses Businesswoman of the Year award in 2009.
[2]
[3]
86.161.191.177 (
talk) 14:33, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
- Winning a de facto "Employee of the Year" award doesn't make you notable. If the award isn't notable, then neither does winning it establish notability.
Pax 19:46, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
- As a CBE, Caroline Shaw quite clearly meets WP:ANYBIO #1. We have always held that the CBE satisfies that. Completely different case and not at all relevant to this discussion. -- Necrothesp ( talk) 11:06, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
-
Order of the British Empire "...is the most junior and most populous order of chivalry..." CBE is the third category down within it - in other words, it's one of the lesser designations given to the people they're not going to "knight". (English civil-service is like a special-needs camp where everybody gets a ribbon.)
Pax 22:48, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
- Sorry, but you quite clearly have no real understanding of the British honours system (as your last sentence clearly illustrates). Each rank of an order is lower than the equivalent rank of a higher order, but higher than the next rank down in a higher order. The British system does not rank all recipients of a higher order above all recipients of a lower order - it doesn't work like that. In addition, it is the only order that can be awarded to anyone and not just to specific categories of people (which is the case with the Order of the Bath, Order of St Michael and St George and Royal Victorian Order). Although the Order of the British Empire is the most junior order, the CBE is the highest of its ranks below knighthood (and the highest rank below knighthood for which most people are eligible), outranking the LVO (which belongs to a higher order, but is a lower rank), and only a few dozen are awarded every year. Many OBEs and MBEs are awarded, but not CBEs. We have consistently held in AfDs that the CBE (but not the OBE or MBE) is indeed a notable award under
WP:ANYBIO #1. And many recipients of the CBE do in fact go on to be knighted. --
Necrothesp (
talk) 11:57, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- Given that they're throwing knighthoods out like candy at a parade these days (a sort of
grade inflation for awards), I think we ought not be reflexively considering CBEs to be that notability-granting. I mean, if these not-quite-knights were actually bearing arms (i.e., all that hoary days of chivalry and jousting tournaments business),
WP:Soldier would be considerably more strict on who makes the cut.05:43, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- Necrothesp is right. Le petit fromage ( talk) 19:41, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
- Given that they're throwing knighthoods out like candy at a parade these days (a sort of
grade inflation for awards), I think we ought not be reflexively considering CBEs to be that notability-granting. I mean, if these not-quite-knights were actually bearing arms (i.e., all that hoary days of chivalry and jousting tournaments business),
WP:Soldier would be considerably more strict on who makes the cut.05:43, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- Sorry, but you quite clearly have no real understanding of the British honours system (as your last sentence clearly illustrates). Each rank of an order is lower than the equivalent rank of a higher order, but higher than the next rank down in a higher order. The British system does not rank all recipients of a higher order above all recipients of a lower order - it doesn't work like that. In addition, it is the only order that can be awarded to anyone and not just to specific categories of people (which is the case with the Order of the Bath, Order of St Michael and St George and Royal Victorian Order). Although the Order of the British Empire is the most junior order, the CBE is the highest of its ranks below knighthood (and the highest rank below knighthood for which most people are eligible), outranking the LVO (which belongs to a higher order, but is a lower rank), and only a few dozen are awarded every year. Many OBEs and MBEs are awarded, but not CBEs. We have consistently held in AfDs that the CBE (but not the OBE or MBE) is indeed a notable award under
WP:ANYBIO #1. And many recipients of the CBE do in fact go on to be knighted. --
Necrothesp (
talk) 11:57, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
-
Order of the British Empire "...is the most junior and most populous order of chivalry..." CBE is the third category down within it - in other words, it's one of the lesser designations given to the people they're not going to "knight". (English civil-service is like a special-needs camp where everybody gets a ribbon.)
Pax 22:48, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
- Comment. Based on a report at WP:SPI, I asked the closing non-admin to reopen this as the struck votes by socks of the author of the article may have influenced his decision to close this as keep. I express no opinion as to whether the article should be kept or deleted.-- Bbb23 ( talk) 16:30, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Relisting comment: more discussion about Smart, please? czar ⨹ 19:12, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, czar ⨹ 19:12, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
Relisting comment: more discussion about Smart, please? czar ⨹ 19:12, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, czar ⨹ 19:12, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
- delete. I am somewhat sympathetic towards articles on those holding influential managerial positions within the establishment, even if their biographies lack human interest. However, the only Tim Smart I could find is the British Ambassador to Madagascar. Le petit fromage ( talk) 19:41, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. The article's subject is found to not be notable. — Coffee // have a cup // beans // 00:27, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
Tim Smart (healthcare administrator)
- Tim Smart (healthcare administrator) ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Delete: Fails WP:BIO Arun Kumar SINGH (Talk) 06:46, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
- Keep Chief Executive of a major London university hospital Mirrortoamermaid ( talk) 19:18, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
Keep 14th highest paid NHS manager in the UK [1]86.140.3.24 ( talk) 14:58, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 16:51, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Medicine-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 16:51, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Businesspeople-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 16:51, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
- Delete. Non-notable hospital bureaucrat. Nom or closer, please also include/treat similarly Caroline Shaw (healthcare administrator) ("...the 33rd highest paid manager in the NHS"!). Pax 07:59, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
Caroline Shaw was appointed a
CBE in the
2013 New Year Honours for services to the
NHS. She was the first-ever NHS winner of a First Women Award in 2010 in recognition of her work in improving services for cancer patients. Shaw was chosen as Patron for the 'Network National' for UK business women in 2009. She received the North West Inspiring Woman of the Year award in 2007. Shaw received Crain's Manchester Businesses Businesswoman of the Year award in 2009.
[2]
[3]
86.161.191.177 (
talk) 14:33, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
- Winning a de facto "Employee of the Year" award doesn't make you notable. If the award isn't notable, then neither does winning it establish notability.
Pax 19:46, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
- As a CBE, Caroline Shaw quite clearly meets WP:ANYBIO #1. We have always held that the CBE satisfies that. Completely different case and not at all relevant to this discussion. -- Necrothesp ( talk) 11:06, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
-
Order of the British Empire "...is the most junior and most populous order of chivalry..." CBE is the third category down within it - in other words, it's one of the lesser designations given to the people they're not going to "knight". (English civil-service is like a special-needs camp where everybody gets a ribbon.)
Pax 22:48, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
- Sorry, but you quite clearly have no real understanding of the British honours system (as your last sentence clearly illustrates). Each rank of an order is lower than the equivalent rank of a higher order, but higher than the next rank down in a higher order. The British system does not rank all recipients of a higher order above all recipients of a lower order - it doesn't work like that. In addition, it is the only order that can be awarded to anyone and not just to specific categories of people (which is the case with the Order of the Bath, Order of St Michael and St George and Royal Victorian Order). Although the Order of the British Empire is the most junior order, the CBE is the highest of its ranks below knighthood (and the highest rank below knighthood for which most people are eligible), outranking the LVO (which belongs to a higher order, but is a lower rank), and only a few dozen are awarded every year. Many OBEs and MBEs are awarded, but not CBEs. We have consistently held in AfDs that the CBE (but not the OBE or MBE) is indeed a notable award under
WP:ANYBIO #1. And many recipients of the CBE do in fact go on to be knighted. --
Necrothesp (
talk) 11:57, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- Given that they're throwing knighthoods out like candy at a parade these days (a sort of
grade inflation for awards), I think we ought not be reflexively considering CBEs to be that notability-granting. I mean, if these not-quite-knights were actually bearing arms (i.e., all that hoary days of chivalry and jousting tournaments business),
WP:Soldier would be considerably more strict on who makes the cut.05:43, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- Necrothesp is right. Le petit fromage ( talk) 19:41, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
- Given that they're throwing knighthoods out like candy at a parade these days (a sort of
grade inflation for awards), I think we ought not be reflexively considering CBEs to be that notability-granting. I mean, if these not-quite-knights were actually bearing arms (i.e., all that hoary days of chivalry and jousting tournaments business),
WP:Soldier would be considerably more strict on who makes the cut.05:43, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- Sorry, but you quite clearly have no real understanding of the British honours system (as your last sentence clearly illustrates). Each rank of an order is lower than the equivalent rank of a higher order, but higher than the next rank down in a higher order. The British system does not rank all recipients of a higher order above all recipients of a lower order - it doesn't work like that. In addition, it is the only order that can be awarded to anyone and not just to specific categories of people (which is the case with the Order of the Bath, Order of St Michael and St George and Royal Victorian Order). Although the Order of the British Empire is the most junior order, the CBE is the highest of its ranks below knighthood (and the highest rank below knighthood for which most people are eligible), outranking the LVO (which belongs to a higher order, but is a lower rank), and only a few dozen are awarded every year. Many OBEs and MBEs are awarded, but not CBEs. We have consistently held in AfDs that the CBE (but not the OBE or MBE) is indeed a notable award under
WP:ANYBIO #1. And many recipients of the CBE do in fact go on to be knighted. --
Necrothesp (
talk) 11:57, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
-
Order of the British Empire "...is the most junior and most populous order of chivalry..." CBE is the third category down within it - in other words, it's one of the lesser designations given to the people they're not going to "knight". (English civil-service is like a special-needs camp where everybody gets a ribbon.)
Pax 22:48, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
- Comment. Based on a report at WP:SPI, I asked the closing non-admin to reopen this as the struck votes by socks of the author of the article may have influenced his decision to close this as keep. I express no opinion as to whether the article should be kept or deleted.-- Bbb23 ( talk) 16:30, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Relisting comment: more discussion about Smart, please? czar ⨹ 19:12, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, czar ⨹ 19:12, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
Relisting comment: more discussion about Smart, please? czar ⨹ 19:12, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, czar ⨹ 19:12, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
- delete. I am somewhat sympathetic towards articles on those holding influential managerial positions within the establishment, even if their biographies lack human interest. However, the only Tim Smart I could find is the British Ambassador to Madagascar. Le petit fromage ( talk) 19:41, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.