The result was delete. Yunshui 雲 水 13:13, 11 December 2012 (UTC) reply
Originally speedy deleted, re-created and I feel uncomfortable about speedying it again. Essentially, this band's only claim to fame is that some of the members helped to write a song which appeared as a filler on an album of another, notable artist. As notability is not inherited, I feel this band doesn't meet the notability guideline. There is one interview (from a weak source) referenced in the article, but aside from that the only sources I can find are entries on websites that review bands for weddings (which, I feel, speaks in itself about the significance of this band). Ultimately, fails WP:GNG, and notability is not inherited. Basalisk inspect damage⁄ berate 20:52, 4 December 2012 (UTC) reply
This composition, is clearly, extraordinarily "NOTABLE", (of which I have already provided & referrenced the truthful fact) that it has had a Norwegian Cruise Lines, Bahama Island destination & resort, named after it. <- "THIS" I must insist, is an extraordinary achievement of "NOTABILITY", that is NOT "inherrited" as you say, but rather, a "DIRECT" achievement of "NOTABILITY" achieved by The Young Brothers, & deems my The Young Brothers article, worthy of being approved, based on wikipedia's own requirements!! The Young Brothers were mentioned, & creditted for the composition, as a band, in Billboard Magazine, under Track 6 "Redneck Paradise" [3]
Even if all the above wasn't true, your argument still doesn't stack up, because you're deceptively trying to use WP:COMPOSER as the standard for inclusion, when the guideline that should actually be applied is WP:BAND (this is a band after all). WP:BAND is extremely inclusive; there are 12 criteria which confer notability, but this band doesn't tick any of them. In fact, the guideline specifically states that bands which are famous only for a contribution to a notable larger piece of work, a stand-alone article is not appropriate.
So, to summarise:
May I draw your attention to the Steely Dan article, which (all significant accomplishments aside) states,
"Steely Dan" is an "American rock band" consisting of core members Donald Fagen and Walter Becker.
The band's music is characterized by complex jazz-influenced structures and harmonies played by Becker and Fagen along with a "revolving cast of rock and pop studio musicians".
I bring this to your attention, because The Young Brothers is also an "American rock band" consisting of core members Eric Young and Jason Young, &
The band's music is characterized by Rock structures and harmonies played by Young and Young along with a "revolving cast of rock studio musicians", (which at the moment, Gary Gilbert (former session player for the rock band Kansas, is their sessioning bassist).
It seems to me, that your going out of your way, to downplay The Young Brothers significance as both musicians & composers. And I don't appreciate your hostile mud sling'n, in referring to them as a "Nothing Band" lumped in with "Wedding Bands" who wrote a common "Filler Song"!
This song, "Redneck Paradise" penned originally by these composers, has just had a Bahama island named after it. So, you're telling me, that such is a common occurance, deserving of no "Notability" much less, your respect???
Tybllc ( talk) 19:24, 5 December 2012 (UTC)tybllc Tybllc ( talk) 19:24, 5 December 2012 (UTC) reply
I have corrected the article, to exemplify that (as comparable to the Steely Dan article regarding band vs composer structuring) it clearly credits the individual composers, or as the Steely Dan article calls it, "CORE MEMBERS", so that it now justifyably meets the Requirements, following criteria for both (A). "musicians & ensembles", & (B)."composers and lyricists". Wikipedia:MUSIC
Please re-evaluate "THE" article, & tell me if it now qualifies based on the merits of the individual composers, or core members.
Thank you kindly again, for your patience & help! Tybllc ( talk) 20:23, 5 December 2012 (UTC)tybllc Tybllc ( talk) 20:23, 5 December 2012 (UTC) reply
Thank you kindly.
Ps. @ "Basalisk" Please answer one question... (All notable accomplishments aside) How is it not bias, or favoratism on the part of Wikipedia, to let composers Donald Fagan & Walter Becker get away with qualifying by Wikipedia as ( Steely Dan) a band, when they are actually "NOT" really a band, but rather, composers, yet if I cite their already set precident, I get told, "comparing this article to other examples of poor practice is not a particularly compelling argument"??? Maybe someone should "Nominate the Steely Dan article for deletion", being that you've just called it "poorly written"??? I really don't believe that I am the biased one in this discussion.
Tybllc ( talk) 20:55, 5 December 2012 (UTC)tybllc Tybllc ( talk) 20:55, 5 December 2012 (UTC) reply
Steely Dan#References shows just some of the published independent documentation for Steely Dan. There's even a book in there. At The Young Brothers#References, in stark contrast, you have an empty page with a Flash box, an advertisment, a press release, a band interview, a news article about another band, and a blank page with another Everywhere Girl on it. We are encyclopaedists. We don't care that you think that you're as good as Steely Dan. We're not in the business of rating bands. This is an enyclopaedia. We care about the existence of proper, published, independent, reliable, in-depth documentation of subjects. So where are the independent, reliable, published books, articles, and so forth that document this particular band? You'll get exactly nowhere repeatedly going on about how other musicians are "not a band", because that is completely irrelevant here. Cite sources and show that this is a properly documented subject that can be written about and checked against published sources.
Oh, and go to Wikipedia:Changing username and get your account name changed, too. It's a fairly easy process. Corporate and promotional account names are not allowed, here. Someone spotting this is likely to disable the account if you don't.
Repetition of points made above
|
---|
Please understand, that I am a "newby" to Wikipedia, meaning that this is my 1st. article, & it has been a valueable learning experience for me. The biggest mistake I had made when I begun the article, was that (not realizing that I had to) I did not make a clear enough destinction to point out that " The Young Brothers" article, is about 2 brothers & " composers" who are only "Regarded" as a "band" by choice, because they perform as such with the accompanyment of hired performing musicians, for which I unintentionally made the error, of leading you to believe that this article was about a band & not about 2 composers. I do appologise for my mistake, & I thank you kindly for your critiques in pointing this out to me. You may, or may not choose to delete " The Young Brothers" article, but I just wanted to say, that I have been trying my best to clean up the article, & clearly draw the distinction, that it is in fact, an article about 2 brothers & " composers", Eric Young & Jason Young who are uniquely regarded as a band because of their choice to perform with the accompanyment of hired performing musicians. I do contest it's deletion because I strongly feel, that it meets Wikipedia's "NOTABILITY" Requirements, following criteria for "composers and lyricists". It seems clear to me, that The Young Brothers meet Wikipedia's "NOTABILITY" Requirements following the criteria for "composers and lyricists", for having credit for co-writing both lyrics & music for a notable composition", by having co-writen (with Kid Rock) a notable composition, for which they are not only clearly listed on Kid Rock's Rebel Soul album as co-writers, but they are also accredited in Billboard Magazine's November Issue, next to #6. "Redneck Paradise", stating, "Teaming with The Young Brothers, Rock digs into a good-time, down-home country lope to bring us a Garden of Eden that allows chewing tobacco." [ [4]] I also believe, that this composition, is also clearly, and extraordinarily "NOTABLE", for being the 1st & only song, to ever have a Norwegian Cruise Lines, Bahama Island destination re-named after it.[ [5]] <- "THIS" I must insist, is an extraordinary achievement of "NOTABILITY", for a composer, that is NOT "inherrited" & in my oppinion, worthy of the article's inclusion, based on wikipedia's own requirements! Please see -> [ [6]]! :) Thank you kindly for your consideration. Tybllc ( talk) 13:51, 9 December 2012 (UTC)tybllc Tybllc ( talk) 13:51, 9 December 2012 (UTC) reply |
Thank you Hobbes Goodyear! I understand now, what it is you are seeking to meet the criteria, if you should decide to delete, I will try again at a later date with reliably sourced criteria verification in hand! For the record. This article is not derived from the band's glossy picture bio. On the contrary, The band just took it's Bio, from the wiki article's draft that you are voting down here!...lol Once again, I do thank you all kindly for your time & consideration. This has been a valuable experience for me, as a "NEWBIE" to Wiki! ;) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.94.99.136 ( talk) 18:24, 10 December 2012 (UTC) reply
The result was delete. Yunshui 雲 水 13:13, 11 December 2012 (UTC) reply
Originally speedy deleted, re-created and I feel uncomfortable about speedying it again. Essentially, this band's only claim to fame is that some of the members helped to write a song which appeared as a filler on an album of another, notable artist. As notability is not inherited, I feel this band doesn't meet the notability guideline. There is one interview (from a weak source) referenced in the article, but aside from that the only sources I can find are entries on websites that review bands for weddings (which, I feel, speaks in itself about the significance of this band). Ultimately, fails WP:GNG, and notability is not inherited. Basalisk inspect damage⁄ berate 20:52, 4 December 2012 (UTC) reply
This composition, is clearly, extraordinarily "NOTABLE", (of which I have already provided & referrenced the truthful fact) that it has had a Norwegian Cruise Lines, Bahama Island destination & resort, named after it. <- "THIS" I must insist, is an extraordinary achievement of "NOTABILITY", that is NOT "inherrited" as you say, but rather, a "DIRECT" achievement of "NOTABILITY" achieved by The Young Brothers, & deems my The Young Brothers article, worthy of being approved, based on wikipedia's own requirements!! The Young Brothers were mentioned, & creditted for the composition, as a band, in Billboard Magazine, under Track 6 "Redneck Paradise" [3]
Even if all the above wasn't true, your argument still doesn't stack up, because you're deceptively trying to use WP:COMPOSER as the standard for inclusion, when the guideline that should actually be applied is WP:BAND (this is a band after all). WP:BAND is extremely inclusive; there are 12 criteria which confer notability, but this band doesn't tick any of them. In fact, the guideline specifically states that bands which are famous only for a contribution to a notable larger piece of work, a stand-alone article is not appropriate.
So, to summarise:
May I draw your attention to the Steely Dan article, which (all significant accomplishments aside) states,
"Steely Dan" is an "American rock band" consisting of core members Donald Fagen and Walter Becker.
The band's music is characterized by complex jazz-influenced structures and harmonies played by Becker and Fagen along with a "revolving cast of rock and pop studio musicians".
I bring this to your attention, because The Young Brothers is also an "American rock band" consisting of core members Eric Young and Jason Young, &
The band's music is characterized by Rock structures and harmonies played by Young and Young along with a "revolving cast of rock studio musicians", (which at the moment, Gary Gilbert (former session player for the rock band Kansas, is their sessioning bassist).
It seems to me, that your going out of your way, to downplay The Young Brothers significance as both musicians & composers. And I don't appreciate your hostile mud sling'n, in referring to them as a "Nothing Band" lumped in with "Wedding Bands" who wrote a common "Filler Song"!
This song, "Redneck Paradise" penned originally by these composers, has just had a Bahama island named after it. So, you're telling me, that such is a common occurance, deserving of no "Notability" much less, your respect???
Tybllc ( talk) 19:24, 5 December 2012 (UTC)tybllc Tybllc ( talk) 19:24, 5 December 2012 (UTC) reply
I have corrected the article, to exemplify that (as comparable to the Steely Dan article regarding band vs composer structuring) it clearly credits the individual composers, or as the Steely Dan article calls it, "CORE MEMBERS", so that it now justifyably meets the Requirements, following criteria for both (A). "musicians & ensembles", & (B)."composers and lyricists". Wikipedia:MUSIC
Please re-evaluate "THE" article, & tell me if it now qualifies based on the merits of the individual composers, or core members.
Thank you kindly again, for your patience & help! Tybllc ( talk) 20:23, 5 December 2012 (UTC)tybllc Tybllc ( talk) 20:23, 5 December 2012 (UTC) reply
Thank you kindly.
Ps. @ "Basalisk" Please answer one question... (All notable accomplishments aside) How is it not bias, or favoratism on the part of Wikipedia, to let composers Donald Fagan & Walter Becker get away with qualifying by Wikipedia as ( Steely Dan) a band, when they are actually "NOT" really a band, but rather, composers, yet if I cite their already set precident, I get told, "comparing this article to other examples of poor practice is not a particularly compelling argument"??? Maybe someone should "Nominate the Steely Dan article for deletion", being that you've just called it "poorly written"??? I really don't believe that I am the biased one in this discussion.
Tybllc ( talk) 20:55, 5 December 2012 (UTC)tybllc Tybllc ( talk) 20:55, 5 December 2012 (UTC) reply
Steely Dan#References shows just some of the published independent documentation for Steely Dan. There's even a book in there. At The Young Brothers#References, in stark contrast, you have an empty page with a Flash box, an advertisment, a press release, a band interview, a news article about another band, and a blank page with another Everywhere Girl on it. We are encyclopaedists. We don't care that you think that you're as good as Steely Dan. We're not in the business of rating bands. This is an enyclopaedia. We care about the existence of proper, published, independent, reliable, in-depth documentation of subjects. So where are the independent, reliable, published books, articles, and so forth that document this particular band? You'll get exactly nowhere repeatedly going on about how other musicians are "not a band", because that is completely irrelevant here. Cite sources and show that this is a properly documented subject that can be written about and checked against published sources.
Oh, and go to Wikipedia:Changing username and get your account name changed, too. It's a fairly easy process. Corporate and promotional account names are not allowed, here. Someone spotting this is likely to disable the account if you don't.
Repetition of points made above
|
---|
Please understand, that I am a "newby" to Wikipedia, meaning that this is my 1st. article, & it has been a valueable learning experience for me. The biggest mistake I had made when I begun the article, was that (not realizing that I had to) I did not make a clear enough destinction to point out that " The Young Brothers" article, is about 2 brothers & " composers" who are only "Regarded" as a "band" by choice, because they perform as such with the accompanyment of hired performing musicians, for which I unintentionally made the error, of leading you to believe that this article was about a band & not about 2 composers. I do appologise for my mistake, & I thank you kindly for your critiques in pointing this out to me. You may, or may not choose to delete " The Young Brothers" article, but I just wanted to say, that I have been trying my best to clean up the article, & clearly draw the distinction, that it is in fact, an article about 2 brothers & " composers", Eric Young & Jason Young who are uniquely regarded as a band because of their choice to perform with the accompanyment of hired performing musicians. I do contest it's deletion because I strongly feel, that it meets Wikipedia's "NOTABILITY" Requirements, following criteria for "composers and lyricists". It seems clear to me, that The Young Brothers meet Wikipedia's "NOTABILITY" Requirements following the criteria for "composers and lyricists", for having credit for co-writing both lyrics & music for a notable composition", by having co-writen (with Kid Rock) a notable composition, for which they are not only clearly listed on Kid Rock's Rebel Soul album as co-writers, but they are also accredited in Billboard Magazine's November Issue, next to #6. "Redneck Paradise", stating, "Teaming with The Young Brothers, Rock digs into a good-time, down-home country lope to bring us a Garden of Eden that allows chewing tobacco." [ [4]] I also believe, that this composition, is also clearly, and extraordinarily "NOTABLE", for being the 1st & only song, to ever have a Norwegian Cruise Lines, Bahama Island destination re-named after it.[ [5]] <- "THIS" I must insist, is an extraordinary achievement of "NOTABILITY", for a composer, that is NOT "inherrited" & in my oppinion, worthy of the article's inclusion, based on wikipedia's own requirements! Please see -> [ [6]]! :) Thank you kindly for your consideration. Tybllc ( talk) 13:51, 9 December 2012 (UTC)tybllc Tybllc ( talk) 13:51, 9 December 2012 (UTC) reply |
Thank you Hobbes Goodyear! I understand now, what it is you are seeking to meet the criteria, if you should decide to delete, I will try again at a later date with reliably sourced criteria verification in hand! For the record. This article is not derived from the band's glossy picture bio. On the contrary, The band just took it's Bio, from the wiki article's draft that you are voting down here!...lol Once again, I do thank you all kindly for your time & consideration. This has been a valuable experience for me, as a "NEWBIE" to Wiki! ;) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.94.99.136 ( talk) 18:24, 10 December 2012 (UTC) reply