- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Discussion about a merge can resume on the article talk page. A Train talk 08:39, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
- Terrorism in Yugoslavia ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Created by a blocked sock, the article is an accumulation of POV and OR. Only a section is sourced (that section contains unsourced content, as a matter of fact). No reliable academic source connects the events or their reasons/outcome together. The article contains many undesirable phrases like "terrorist" and "extremist" (per WP:Terrorist). Almost all of the article elaborates only on Ustashe, indicating that the article was created to promote certain views of the banned sock. The sourced content could be moved to Ustashe. Ktrimi991 ( talk) 13:22, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
- Keep - No valid arguments for deletion. The topic is certainly notable. Eventual issues can be resolved by reaching consensus per Wikipedia:Arguments to avoid in deletion discussions. -- Antidiskriminator ( talk) 13:39, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
- Comment - Agnostic as of the moment. The page does seem to violate WP:TERRORIST on a lot of points (look the Ustasha were awful is the terrorist the right word? Unsure on that...), and poorly sourced or totally unsourced lists like this instead of prose are frowned upon as per manner of style. Agnostic as to whether this is WP:TNT. Additionally, a good page on this topic would need to have info on the state veneration of the famous terrorist Gavrilo Princip whose house was made into a museum and who was considered a national hero, while the organization he was an operator for, Black Hand, went onto inspire many other terrorist outfits. -- Calthinus ( talk) 18:30, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Terrorism-related deletion discussions. The Mighty Glen ( talk) 15:41, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Yugoslavia-related deletion discussions. The Mighty Glen ( talk) 15:41, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
- Merge content with
Ustashe,
Croatian National Resistance, etc. All these "Terrorism in..." articles are
WP:COATRACKs and violate
WP:TERRORISM, as Ktrimi991 is quick to point out elsewhere.
23 editor (
talk)
19:29, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
- Support Merge -- Calthinus ( talk) 02:29, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
- Keep The article certainly has multiple significant problems, as users have pointed out. However, from the nomination I do not see under wich WP:DEL-REASON it falls. We generally aim at improving bad articles, instead of deleting them. Maybe you could consider cutting it back to a stub or merging it. wikitigresito ( talk) 19:33, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
- @
Wikitigresito: I have provided the reasons above. On the sourced content, it would be suitable for
Ustashe or other related articles. If we remove the entire unsourced content, all left would be a paragraph about
Ustashe under the name
Terrorism in Yugoslavia. Hence I opened this discussion for community input.
Ktrimi991 (
talk)
21:43, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
- @
Ktrimi991: Hey, thanks for the answer. From my perspective the issues you have listed are certainly problematic, but do not constitute reasons for deletion. That's why I asked which of the reasons listed exactly applies. It would be good for us to have a comprehensive, high-quality article on terrorism in Yugoslavia, a topic that
is obviouslyseems to be notable. Therefore, I oppose deleting the article. wikitigresito ( talk) 23:59, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
- @
Ktrimi991: Hey, thanks for the answer. From my perspective the issues you have listed are certainly problematic, but do not constitute reasons for deletion. That's why I asked which of the reasons listed exactly applies. It would be good for us to have a comprehensive, high-quality article on terrorism in Yugoslavia, a topic that
- @
Wikitigresito: I have provided the reasons above. On the sourced content, it would be suitable for
Ustashe or other related articles. If we remove the entire unsourced content, all left would be a paragraph about
Ustashe under the name
Terrorism in Yugoslavia. Hence I opened this discussion for community input.
Ktrimi991 (
talk)
21:43, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
- Keep although the text certainly needs improvement and sourcing. The word "terrorism" is heavily loaded, so a change in the title itself might subsequently be considered. In modern-day Croatia, for instance, many of the actions listed in the article are considered part of a perceived, legitimate resistance. (On that, witness also suggestion by 23 editor, above, to merge into an article about "Croatian resistance.")- The Gnome ( talk) 06:51, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
- My proposal is practically delete the unsourced content and merge the sourced one. Almost all editors who have participated here so far have underlined merging as a viable solution to the many problems of this article. If other editors support this or a similar option, it would be of help if they specify what content should me merged (all of the article or the sourced parts of it). Ktrimi991 ( talk) 18:31, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
- Keep - Important subject, more then valid article, needs to be expanded. Failed explanation to delete or merge. -- Ąnαșταη ( ταlκ) 22:46, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
- Merge - as per reasons outlined by 23 editor. Resnjari ( talk) 12:52, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spartaz Humbug! 06:03, 20 May 2018 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spartaz Humbug! 06:03, 20 May 2018 (UTC)
- Merge because after an editor removed the unsourced text, the article is about the Ustashe only. It gives the wrong impression that all of such bad acts in Yugoslavia were made by the Ustashe. Tiimiii ( talk) 17:14, 26 May 2018 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Discussion about a merge can resume on the article talk page. A Train talk 08:39, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
- Terrorism in Yugoslavia ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Created by a blocked sock, the article is an accumulation of POV and OR. Only a section is sourced (that section contains unsourced content, as a matter of fact). No reliable academic source connects the events or their reasons/outcome together. The article contains many undesirable phrases like "terrorist" and "extremist" (per WP:Terrorist). Almost all of the article elaborates only on Ustashe, indicating that the article was created to promote certain views of the banned sock. The sourced content could be moved to Ustashe. Ktrimi991 ( talk) 13:22, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
- Keep - No valid arguments for deletion. The topic is certainly notable. Eventual issues can be resolved by reaching consensus per Wikipedia:Arguments to avoid in deletion discussions. -- Antidiskriminator ( talk) 13:39, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
- Comment - Agnostic as of the moment. The page does seem to violate WP:TERRORIST on a lot of points (look the Ustasha were awful is the terrorist the right word? Unsure on that...), and poorly sourced or totally unsourced lists like this instead of prose are frowned upon as per manner of style. Agnostic as to whether this is WP:TNT. Additionally, a good page on this topic would need to have info on the state veneration of the famous terrorist Gavrilo Princip whose house was made into a museum and who was considered a national hero, while the organization he was an operator for, Black Hand, went onto inspire many other terrorist outfits. -- Calthinus ( talk) 18:30, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Terrorism-related deletion discussions. The Mighty Glen ( talk) 15:41, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Yugoslavia-related deletion discussions. The Mighty Glen ( talk) 15:41, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
- Merge content with
Ustashe,
Croatian National Resistance, etc. All these "Terrorism in..." articles are
WP:COATRACKs and violate
WP:TERRORISM, as Ktrimi991 is quick to point out elsewhere.
23 editor (
talk)
19:29, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
- Support Merge -- Calthinus ( talk) 02:29, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
- Keep The article certainly has multiple significant problems, as users have pointed out. However, from the nomination I do not see under wich WP:DEL-REASON it falls. We generally aim at improving bad articles, instead of deleting them. Maybe you could consider cutting it back to a stub or merging it. wikitigresito ( talk) 19:33, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
- @
Wikitigresito: I have provided the reasons above. On the sourced content, it would be suitable for
Ustashe or other related articles. If we remove the entire unsourced content, all left would be a paragraph about
Ustashe under the name
Terrorism in Yugoslavia. Hence I opened this discussion for community input.
Ktrimi991 (
talk)
21:43, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
- @
Ktrimi991: Hey, thanks for the answer. From my perspective the issues you have listed are certainly problematic, but do not constitute reasons for deletion. That's why I asked which of the reasons listed exactly applies. It would be good for us to have a comprehensive, high-quality article on terrorism in Yugoslavia, a topic that
is obviouslyseems to be notable. Therefore, I oppose deleting the article. wikitigresito ( talk) 23:59, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
- @
Ktrimi991: Hey, thanks for the answer. From my perspective the issues you have listed are certainly problematic, but do not constitute reasons for deletion. That's why I asked which of the reasons listed exactly applies. It would be good for us to have a comprehensive, high-quality article on terrorism in Yugoslavia, a topic that
- @
Wikitigresito: I have provided the reasons above. On the sourced content, it would be suitable for
Ustashe or other related articles. If we remove the entire unsourced content, all left would be a paragraph about
Ustashe under the name
Terrorism in Yugoslavia. Hence I opened this discussion for community input.
Ktrimi991 (
talk)
21:43, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
- Keep although the text certainly needs improvement and sourcing. The word "terrorism" is heavily loaded, so a change in the title itself might subsequently be considered. In modern-day Croatia, for instance, many of the actions listed in the article are considered part of a perceived, legitimate resistance. (On that, witness also suggestion by 23 editor, above, to merge into an article about "Croatian resistance.")- The Gnome ( talk) 06:51, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
- My proposal is practically delete the unsourced content and merge the sourced one. Almost all editors who have participated here so far have underlined merging as a viable solution to the many problems of this article. If other editors support this or a similar option, it would be of help if they specify what content should me merged (all of the article or the sourced parts of it). Ktrimi991 ( talk) 18:31, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
- Keep - Important subject, more then valid article, needs to be expanded. Failed explanation to delete or merge. -- Ąnαșταη ( ταlκ) 22:46, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
- Merge - as per reasons outlined by 23 editor. Resnjari ( talk) 12:52, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spartaz Humbug! 06:03, 20 May 2018 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spartaz Humbug! 06:03, 20 May 2018 (UTC)
- Merge because after an editor removed the unsourced text, the article is about the Ustashe only. It gives the wrong impression that all of such bad acts in Yugoslavia were made by the Ustashe. Tiimiii ( talk) 17:14, 26 May 2018 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.