- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Discussion around WP:INHERITED ( WP:ONEEVENT is not the relevant guideline since it's an entire organization / recurring planned event we're talking about) is bound to be highly subjective, so it is the closer's responsibility to take the opinions as they are so long as they are grounded in a reasonable interpretation of policies and guidelines. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 00:07, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
Siân Evans (librarian)
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- Siân Evans (librarian) ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
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One of four Co-Founders of Art+Feminism, an annual Wikipedia based event that took place between 2014-17. Another co-founder of this event was recently deleted at afd: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jacqueline Mabey, with the consensus being that just being a co-founder is not enough to confer notability. All of the coverage this person has received is for Art+Feminism, which does have a justifiable level of coverage to have an article on its own, but this co-founder hasn't received coverage for anything else, so, therefore, fails WP:ONEEVENT. I don't think we should have articles on everyone who co-founds an event because they got interviewed about it.
I'd like to bring editors to the attention of the articles around this event in general. Until about 12 hours ago, it said on the Art+Feminism article that the last event was on the 11th March 2017. This was edited to say the last event was as early as the end of June 2020. Checking the source linked, this turned out to be an online event attended by 9 people. In addition, the editor admitted on the
Previous afd that they were, in fact, a co-founder of this event (may even be this person). As I thought that it was too much of a stretch to call 9 people editing Wikipedia an "event," at least comparable to the ones taking place between 2014-17, I reverted this edit. It seems from a cursory glance that this organization allows anyone to organize events under the name and add them to a list hosted on this site. I think seeing as the 2017 event was the last annual event organized by the organization called "Art+Feminism 20**," it should be listed as the last event on the page. I would appreciate editors forming a consensus on this as well as I want to avoid edit warring on the page.
AlessandroTiandelli333 (
talk)
15:55, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletion discussions. AlessandroTiandelli333 ( talk) 23:31, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Internet-related deletion discussions. AlessandroTiandelli333 ( talk) 23:31, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. TJMSmith ( talk) 00:01, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
- AlessandroTiandelli333, an AfD is not a way to settle a content dispute on a related topic. Discuss at the talk page of Art+Feminism, not here. Vexations ( talk) 11:49, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
- Comment - wrong venue. I suggest you post this subject at Wikipedia talk:How to run an edit-a-thon. And if you have not already consulted Rosiestep, she is definitely a person who could point you in the right direction about your questions. But AFD is not the place for this. Sorry. — Maile ( talk) 15:36, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
- I've removed the text about the other issue from the afd. I still think this article should be discussed for afd though.
AlessandroTiandelli333 (
talk)
15:54, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
- AlessandroTiandelli333, don't do that, because now the replies lack context. Restore your text, but strike what you want to withdraw. Once that's done though, I will raise another procedural objection. Vexations ( talk) 18:44, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
- I've removed the text about the other issue from the afd. I still think this article should be discussed for afd though.
AlessandroTiandelli333 (
talk)
15:54, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
- Strong Keep! Meets WP:GNG. Being the co-founder of an international movement that engages hundreds (thousands?) of people is important and makes the co-founders notable. In addition: (a) named as one of Foreign Policy's 100 Leading Global Thinkers; (b) published writer. P.S. Thanks for alerting me to this conversation. I wasn't aware that this was happening ( Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jacqueline Mabey) or I would have participated (Keep). -- Rosiestep ( talk) 19:03, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
- Keep - I always dislike the "per so-and-so"reasoning, but in this case ... Per Rosiestep. I know so little about the above process that is the subject of the article. But I trust the knowledge and experience of Rosiestep. — Maile ( talk) 20:24, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
- Comment:
an annual Wikipedia based event that took place between 2014-17
is false. Art+Feminism is active and still organizing edit-a-thons. My attempt to remedy the factual error in the article was reverted by the nom in this diff. The nom makes an assertion that he knows to be false (and contested) as a rationale for deletion. I have further procedural objections to this nomination, but need to have the original nomination restored, with deleted parts struck, for those to make sense. Vexations ( talk) 20:31, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
- Deleted paragraph restored as deleted text. — Maile ( talk) 20:58, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
- Strong keep. Once again, the deletionists hope to save server space by taking up more bandwidth in fruitless deletion discussions than the article itself will ever require. Art + Feminism (and I too have facilitated these editathons, two of them) is a live and active project and its leadership has more than adequate indicia of notability both for this and for their independent activities. Do a little research before hitting the AfD button, this isn't a contest to see how many articles you can get deleted. Sheesh. Montanabw (talk) 22:39, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
- The previous afd went overwhelmingly to delete (I think 5-1) and this is exactly the exact same situation, the person has only received coverage for being a co-founder of this event. I'm not having a "competition to delete pages," I don't think wikipedia is the place for WP:PROMO for someone who has been notable for 1 thing, thereby failing WP:ONEEVENT. I'm not going to lecture an admin but if you have been involved in the project perhaps you should disclose you have a WP:COI. AlessandroTiandelli333 ( talk) 23:34, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
- For transparency, I am a co-founder of Women in Red. Women in Red has facilitated online editathons supporting many Affiliates and non-Affiliate communities when asked to do so, including Art+Feminism, the last time being their March 2020 event, with Women in Red's meetup page here. For a list of all of Women in Red's events, including where we've supported A+F, Wiki Asia Month, CEE, AfroCrowd via Black History Month, AfroCine supporting WM Nigeria User Group, etc., see {{ Women in Red}}. Personally, I haven't created many, if any articles, about women artists, but I have written articles about women feminists, and I do so all year round, whether there's an on-going A+F event or not. As the Chair of AffCom, I know the founders of A+F as well as the founders and/or Board members of dozens of Affiliates. Sian and I have no special relationship. No one at A+F contacted me asking me to lend my support to this AfD. I'm here because user:Maile66 pinged me; see above. -- Rosiestep ( talk) 04:48, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
- AlessandroTiandelli333, ONEEVENT does not apply. Evans is not the organizer of a single event, but the co-founder of an organization that has organized a ongoing series of events. As for PROMO, I'm don't see any soapboxing, propaganda, advertising or showcasing in the article. The statements are factual, and verifiable. That Evens herself engages in activism is irrelevant. Vexations ( talk) 13:15, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
- Keep. The article already contains sufficient facts for notability but could certainly be usefully expanded.-- Ipigott ( talk) 09:46, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
- Keep per discussion. And "In 2014, Evans was named one of Foreign Policy's 100 Leading Global Thinkers" is not trivial, but a notable achievement in real-world consideration. Randy Kryn ( talk) 15:41, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
- Strong Keep - Not even sure why this is here. This clearly meets WP:GNG. -- Dane talk 19:39, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
- Delete Fails GNG due to a lack of significant coverage. The sources given mention her briefly and are mostly about A+F. Being a founder of Art+Feminism and being named as one of Foreign Policy's 100 Leading Global Thinkers weren't enough to keep Jacqueline Mabey's article. Dougal18 ( talk) 11:03, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
- then maybe when this AfD is finished Jacqueline Mabey's article can have a put-it-back-on-mainspace discussion. Randy Kryn ( talk) 12:27, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
Relisting comment: So far consensus is pretty clear to keep, but because this is a topic which might give rise to accusations of conflict of interest on the part of Wikipedia or some Wikipedians, I believe a more thorough examination of the subject's notability is in order.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 07:44, 22 July 2020 (UTC)
- Keep: Per reasons above. Article easily meets WP:GNG. ASTIG😎 ( ICE T • ICE CUBE) 16:15, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Discussion around WP:INHERITED ( WP:ONEEVENT is not the relevant guideline since it's an entire organization / recurring planned event we're talking about) is bound to be highly subjective, so it is the closer's responsibility to take the opinions as they are so long as they are grounded in a reasonable interpretation of policies and guidelines. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 00:07, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
Siân Evans (librarian)
|
| If you came here because someone asked you to, or you read a message on another website, please note that this is
not a majority vote, but instead a discussion among Wikipedia contributors. Wikipedia has
policies and guidelines regarding the encyclopedia's content, and
consensus (agreement) is gauged based on the merits of the arguments, not by counting votes.
However, you are invited to participate and your opinion is welcome. Remember to assume good faith on the part of others and to sign your posts on this page by adding ~~~~ at the end. Note: Comments may be tagged as follows: suspected single-purpose accounts:{{subst:
spa|username}}; suspected
canvassed users: {{subst:
canvassed|username}}; accounts blocked for
sockpuppetry: {{subst:
csm|username}} or {{subst:
csp|username}}. |
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Siân Evans (librarian) ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
One of four Co-Founders of Art+Feminism, an annual Wikipedia based event that took place between 2014-17. Another co-founder of this event was recently deleted at afd: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jacqueline Mabey, with the consensus being that just being a co-founder is not enough to confer notability. All of the coverage this person has received is for Art+Feminism, which does have a justifiable level of coverage to have an article on its own, but this co-founder hasn't received coverage for anything else, so, therefore, fails WP:ONEEVENT. I don't think we should have articles on everyone who co-founds an event because they got interviewed about it.
I'd like to bring editors to the attention of the articles around this event in general. Until about 12 hours ago, it said on the Art+Feminism article that the last event was on the 11th March 2017. This was edited to say the last event was as early as the end of June 2020. Checking the source linked, this turned out to be an online event attended by 9 people. In addition, the editor admitted on the
Previous afd that they were, in fact, a co-founder of this event (may even be this person). As I thought that it was too much of a stretch to call 9 people editing Wikipedia an "event," at least comparable to the ones taking place between 2014-17, I reverted this edit. It seems from a cursory glance that this organization allows anyone to organize events under the name and add them to a list hosted on this site. I think seeing as the 2017 event was the last annual event organized by the organization called "Art+Feminism 20**," it should be listed as the last event on the page. I would appreciate editors forming a consensus on this as well as I want to avoid edit warring on the page.
AlessandroTiandelli333 (
talk)
15:55, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletion discussions. AlessandroTiandelli333 ( talk) 23:31, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Internet-related deletion discussions. AlessandroTiandelli333 ( talk) 23:31, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. TJMSmith ( talk) 00:01, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
- AlessandroTiandelli333, an AfD is not a way to settle a content dispute on a related topic. Discuss at the talk page of Art+Feminism, not here. Vexations ( talk) 11:49, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
- Comment - wrong venue. I suggest you post this subject at Wikipedia talk:How to run an edit-a-thon. And if you have not already consulted Rosiestep, she is definitely a person who could point you in the right direction about your questions. But AFD is not the place for this. Sorry. — Maile ( talk) 15:36, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
- I've removed the text about the other issue from the afd. I still think this article should be discussed for afd though.
AlessandroTiandelli333 (
talk)
15:54, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
- AlessandroTiandelli333, don't do that, because now the replies lack context. Restore your text, but strike what you want to withdraw. Once that's done though, I will raise another procedural objection. Vexations ( talk) 18:44, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
- I've removed the text about the other issue from the afd. I still think this article should be discussed for afd though.
AlessandroTiandelli333 (
talk)
15:54, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
- Strong Keep! Meets WP:GNG. Being the co-founder of an international movement that engages hundreds (thousands?) of people is important and makes the co-founders notable. In addition: (a) named as one of Foreign Policy's 100 Leading Global Thinkers; (b) published writer. P.S. Thanks for alerting me to this conversation. I wasn't aware that this was happening ( Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jacqueline Mabey) or I would have participated (Keep). -- Rosiestep ( talk) 19:03, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
- Keep - I always dislike the "per so-and-so"reasoning, but in this case ... Per Rosiestep. I know so little about the above process that is the subject of the article. But I trust the knowledge and experience of Rosiestep. — Maile ( talk) 20:24, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
- Comment:
an annual Wikipedia based event that took place between 2014-17
is false. Art+Feminism is active and still organizing edit-a-thons. My attempt to remedy the factual error in the article was reverted by the nom in this diff. The nom makes an assertion that he knows to be false (and contested) as a rationale for deletion. I have further procedural objections to this nomination, but need to have the original nomination restored, with deleted parts struck, for those to make sense. Vexations ( talk) 20:31, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
- Deleted paragraph restored as deleted text. — Maile ( talk) 20:58, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
- Strong keep. Once again, the deletionists hope to save server space by taking up more bandwidth in fruitless deletion discussions than the article itself will ever require. Art + Feminism (and I too have facilitated these editathons, two of them) is a live and active project and its leadership has more than adequate indicia of notability both for this and for their independent activities. Do a little research before hitting the AfD button, this isn't a contest to see how many articles you can get deleted. Sheesh. Montanabw (talk) 22:39, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
- The previous afd went overwhelmingly to delete (I think 5-1) and this is exactly the exact same situation, the person has only received coverage for being a co-founder of this event. I'm not having a "competition to delete pages," I don't think wikipedia is the place for WP:PROMO for someone who has been notable for 1 thing, thereby failing WP:ONEEVENT. I'm not going to lecture an admin but if you have been involved in the project perhaps you should disclose you have a WP:COI. AlessandroTiandelli333 ( talk) 23:34, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
- For transparency, I am a co-founder of Women in Red. Women in Red has facilitated online editathons supporting many Affiliates and non-Affiliate communities when asked to do so, including Art+Feminism, the last time being their March 2020 event, with Women in Red's meetup page here. For a list of all of Women in Red's events, including where we've supported A+F, Wiki Asia Month, CEE, AfroCrowd via Black History Month, AfroCine supporting WM Nigeria User Group, etc., see {{ Women in Red}}. Personally, I haven't created many, if any articles, about women artists, but I have written articles about women feminists, and I do so all year round, whether there's an on-going A+F event or not. As the Chair of AffCom, I know the founders of A+F as well as the founders and/or Board members of dozens of Affiliates. Sian and I have no special relationship. No one at A+F contacted me asking me to lend my support to this AfD. I'm here because user:Maile66 pinged me; see above. -- Rosiestep ( talk) 04:48, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
- AlessandroTiandelli333, ONEEVENT does not apply. Evans is not the organizer of a single event, but the co-founder of an organization that has organized a ongoing series of events. As for PROMO, I'm don't see any soapboxing, propaganda, advertising or showcasing in the article. The statements are factual, and verifiable. That Evens herself engages in activism is irrelevant. Vexations ( talk) 13:15, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
- Keep. The article already contains sufficient facts for notability but could certainly be usefully expanded.-- Ipigott ( talk) 09:46, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
- Keep per discussion. And "In 2014, Evans was named one of Foreign Policy's 100 Leading Global Thinkers" is not trivial, but a notable achievement in real-world consideration. Randy Kryn ( talk) 15:41, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
- Strong Keep - Not even sure why this is here. This clearly meets WP:GNG. -- Dane talk 19:39, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
- Delete Fails GNG due to a lack of significant coverage. The sources given mention her briefly and are mostly about A+F. Being a founder of Art+Feminism and being named as one of Foreign Policy's 100 Leading Global Thinkers weren't enough to keep Jacqueline Mabey's article. Dougal18 ( talk) 11:03, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
- then maybe when this AfD is finished Jacqueline Mabey's article can have a put-it-back-on-mainspace discussion. Randy Kryn ( talk) 12:27, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
Relisting comment: So far consensus is pretty clear to keep, but because this is a topic which might give rise to accusations of conflict of interest on the part of Wikipedia or some Wikipedians, I believe a more thorough examination of the subject's notability is in order.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 07:44, 22 July 2020 (UTC)
- Keep: Per reasons above. Article easily meets WP:GNG. ASTIG😎 ( ICE T • ICE CUBE) 16:15, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.