- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. None of the "keep" !votes provided sufficient evidence to prove that the subject is notable by Wikipedia's standards. ✗ plicit 13:34, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
Seamus Hasson
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- Seamus Hasson ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Non-notable local historian. Not recognised as a historian or expert by any authority, no training in the field either, edited and wrote for some super local magazines and appeared to have published a single non-notable book(Edit: striking through, he didn't publish a book, the "New Orleans McCloskeys" was just an article in a magazine). All coverage is passing other than some local area obituaries. Cannot find reasonable sources to define any notability. Half the content of the article still is only tangentially about the subject. The main reference is about the subject and their history, but is in the local magazine they edited and wrote for and appears to have just been narrated to the actual writer, so it's not in any way an independently produced source and may as well just have been written by the subject themself. I tried tidying it up, but couldn't find the notable or reliable sources to do much. (It's also worth noting that there is evidence of severe
WP:CANVASing or
WP:SOCKPUPPETRY on the article and talk page.)
Canterbury Tail
talk
12:51, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
- Delete. This was a man who was apparently well-known in his local community, for several reasons, including his contributions to local magazines, but there is no evidence of more widespread notability. The cited references currently present in the article are:
- ( http://www.thewindingroe.com/) - the web site of the publisher of two magazines that Seamus Hasson was connected to, including being the editor of one, and a member of the editing committee of the other. The full and complete text of the mention of him on the cited page is "1971 - Seamus Hasson edited the first Benbradagh Magazine".
- ( https://www.derrynow.com/news/local-news/460560/tailor-made-to-be-one-of-a-kind-tributes-to-seamus-hasson.html) An obituary in a local newspaper.
- This reference links to he same web page as reference 1 above, but the wikitext of the reference gives a page number and an issue number of one of the magazines concerned. It turns out that it is a page in an article about the family of Hasson, one of the editors of the magazine. The information in the Wikipedia article which is cited to that page consists of such facts as that in 1950 the Hasson family set up a shop, and that later the shop was damaged by bombs.
- ( https://archive.niassembly.gov.uk/education/2007mandate/minutes/2008/090527.htm) Minutes of a meeting of the Northern Ireland Assembly's committee for education, in which the full and complete mention of Hasson is "The Committee noted correspondence of 16 May 2009 from Mr Seamus Hasson, Dungiven requesting information on the Education Bill. Agreed – the Committee would write to Mr Hasson to provide an update on the progress of the Committee’s scrutiny of the Education Bill to date."
- ( https://www.irishnews.com/paywall/tsb/irishnews/irishnews/irishnews/news/northernirelandnews/2019/07/13/news/brothers-told-of-francie-mccloskey-s-last-hours-1662179/content.html) A newspaper publishing an account provided by Seamus Hasson and his brother of the death of an injured man, whom the Hasson borthers tried to help.
- ( https://cain.ulster.ac.uk/heathwood/static/1994.html) The page of result from a search on a web site which lists television programmes, and synopses of them. The synopsis of one of the programmes is 181 words long, and includes a 6 word mention of Hasson.
- None of this comes near to constituting substantial coverage of Hasson, and some of them are not independent sources either. I searched for better sources, but found nothing significantly different in character from the cited sources. Unfortunately, the article gives no indication that Seamus Hasson satisfies Wikipedia's notability guidelines, nor does there appear to be any evidence available anywhere else that he does so. JBW ( talk) 14:49, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People and Northern Ireland. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 17:46, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
- Keep Please do not delete this article. Seamus was a well educated man and keen historian - his writings are important to mark events in local history. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.240.159.95 ( talk) 21:07, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
- 90.240.159.95 has made no other edits. JBW ( talk) 08:50, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
- Keep I think this article should not be deleted as there is detailed interesting history within the content of this item. 146.198.186.198 ( talk) 21:35, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
- 146.198.186.198 has made no edits other than about this article. JBW ( talk) 08:50, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
- Unfortunately, Wikipedia's notability criteria don't include the subject of an article being well educated or keen, or there being detailed or interesting material associated with him. I suggest you look at the general notability guideline and the guideline on notability of people to see what kind of thing is needed, and then see whether you can find evidence that Seamus Hasson satisfies any of the criteria given there. JBW ( talk) 09:27, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
- Delete as the other delete comments, I don't believe this article meets the notability criteria for Wikipedia. Local historians have their place and I've always appreciated local talks when I've attended but very few local historians would meet notability criteria. Knitsey ( talk) 14:15, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
- Keep - Seamus Hasson is a notable figure, having initiated the Benbradagh magazine and supporting the Winding Roe magazine which are journals, held in high esteem by Academics.
- All editions of both the Benbradagh and Winding Roe magazines are held by The Agency for the Legal Deposit Libraries in Edinburgh as well as the national libraries of the Anglo-Celtic islands, being:- National Library of Scotland; The Bodleian Library at Oxford University; National Library of Wales; Cambridge University Library and The Library of Trinity College, Dublin. This demonstrates the notability of Seamus Hasson due to the importance and value of the contribution which these journals, he was involved in and, compiled over a period of fifty years have.
- Both titles are also held in the McClay Library, Queen's University of Belfast, the Royal Irish Academy, Dublin and and in the Legal Deposits of The British Library in Wetherby.
- In addition to this, Allen County Public Library, Genealogy Center, Fort Wayne, Indiana hold both titles. All of these institutions are esteemed, illustrious institutions who subscribed to the receipt of each journal annually. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Glenshane ( talk • contribs) 15:45, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
- The Agency for the Legal Deposit Libraries does not hold copies of publications; it acts on behalf of the Bodleian Library, the Cambridge University Library, the Library of Trinity College, Dublin, the National Library of Wales and the National Library of Scotland to obtain copies of publications for them, and passes those copies on to the libraries. Those five libraries and the British Library, which you also mention, have an automatic legal right to a copy of every publication published in the United Kingdom and the Republic of Ireland, so it is far from true that the fact that they have the magazines "demonstrates the notability" even of those magazines, let alone of Seamus Hasson. I know nothing about the inclusion standards for the other libraries that you mention, but it isn't relevant anyway, since being a contributor to publications held in libraries is not part of Wikipedia's notability criteria. I echo my advice above to actually read the relevant Wikipedia notability guidelines and try to find evidence which complies with them. If you can do that then the article is likely to be kept, and I for one will support keeping it, but that isn't going to happen on the basis of ideas which may seem like reasonable indications of notability to anyone new to contributing to Wikipedia, but which are unconnected to anything in the notability guidelines.
JBW (
talk)
16:36, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
- Heck I've got a book held in several libraries and I'm definitely not notable, and neither is my book. Canterbury Tail talk 17:24, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
- The Agency for the Legal Deposit Libraries does not hold copies of publications; it acts on behalf of the Bodleian Library, the Cambridge University Library, the Library of Trinity College, Dublin, the National Library of Wales and the National Library of Scotland to obtain copies of publications for them, and passes those copies on to the libraries. Those five libraries and the British Library, which you also mention, have an automatic legal right to a copy of every publication published in the United Kingdom and the Republic of Ireland, so it is far from true that the fact that they have the magazines "demonstrates the notability" even of those magazines, let alone of Seamus Hasson. I know nothing about the inclusion standards for the other libraries that you mention, but it isn't relevant anyway, since being a contributor to publications held in libraries is not part of Wikipedia's notability criteria. I echo my advice above to actually read the relevant Wikipedia notability guidelines and try to find evidence which complies with them. If you can do that then the article is likely to be kept, and I for one will support keeping it, but that isn't going to happen on the basis of ideas which may seem like reasonable indications of notability to anyone new to contributing to Wikipedia, but which are unconnected to anything in the notability guidelines.
JBW (
talk)
16:36, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
- KEEP Seamus Hasson contributed his Dungiven local historical knowledge to 29 out of 30 Benbradagh issues. These magazines were then bound together and are now known as the Second Book of Dungiven. Seamus served on Benbradagh's editorial committee for it's entire lifespan of 30 years and then went on to contribute to The Winding Roe magazine until the year before his death in 2016. He bequeathed to Dungiven a great treasure of his writings that is well respected for its accurate detail, a perfectionist to many of us that have read his work.
- Seamus Hasson has also been recognised by other writers in their research -
- The Irish highwaymen by Stephen Dunford.
- Matt a biography of Matthew H. McCloskey by Robert J Ehlinger. Owenbegpamela ( talk) 07:46, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
- .KEEP I also wish to object to this proposal as I do not see anything controversial in this article 213.104.114.26 ( talk) 11:48, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. None of the "keep" !votes provided sufficient evidence to prove that the subject is notable by Wikipedia's standards. ✗ plicit 13:34, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
Seamus Hasson
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Seamus Hasson ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Non-notable local historian. Not recognised as a historian or expert by any authority, no training in the field either, edited and wrote for some super local magazines and appeared to have published a single non-notable book(Edit: striking through, he didn't publish a book, the "New Orleans McCloskeys" was just an article in a magazine). All coverage is passing other than some local area obituaries. Cannot find reasonable sources to define any notability. Half the content of the article still is only tangentially about the subject. The main reference is about the subject and their history, but is in the local magazine they edited and wrote for and appears to have just been narrated to the actual writer, so it's not in any way an independently produced source and may as well just have been written by the subject themself. I tried tidying it up, but couldn't find the notable or reliable sources to do much. (It's also worth noting that there is evidence of severe
WP:CANVASing or
WP:SOCKPUPPETRY on the article and talk page.)
Canterbury Tail
talk
12:51, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
- Delete. This was a man who was apparently well-known in his local community, for several reasons, including his contributions to local magazines, but there is no evidence of more widespread notability. The cited references currently present in the article are:
- ( http://www.thewindingroe.com/) - the web site of the publisher of two magazines that Seamus Hasson was connected to, including being the editor of one, and a member of the editing committee of the other. The full and complete text of the mention of him on the cited page is "1971 - Seamus Hasson edited the first Benbradagh Magazine".
- ( https://www.derrynow.com/news/local-news/460560/tailor-made-to-be-one-of-a-kind-tributes-to-seamus-hasson.html) An obituary in a local newspaper.
- This reference links to he same web page as reference 1 above, but the wikitext of the reference gives a page number and an issue number of one of the magazines concerned. It turns out that it is a page in an article about the family of Hasson, one of the editors of the magazine. The information in the Wikipedia article which is cited to that page consists of such facts as that in 1950 the Hasson family set up a shop, and that later the shop was damaged by bombs.
- ( https://archive.niassembly.gov.uk/education/2007mandate/minutes/2008/090527.htm) Minutes of a meeting of the Northern Ireland Assembly's committee for education, in which the full and complete mention of Hasson is "The Committee noted correspondence of 16 May 2009 from Mr Seamus Hasson, Dungiven requesting information on the Education Bill. Agreed – the Committee would write to Mr Hasson to provide an update on the progress of the Committee’s scrutiny of the Education Bill to date."
- ( https://www.irishnews.com/paywall/tsb/irishnews/irishnews/irishnews/news/northernirelandnews/2019/07/13/news/brothers-told-of-francie-mccloskey-s-last-hours-1662179/content.html) A newspaper publishing an account provided by Seamus Hasson and his brother of the death of an injured man, whom the Hasson borthers tried to help.
- ( https://cain.ulster.ac.uk/heathwood/static/1994.html) The page of result from a search on a web site which lists television programmes, and synopses of them. The synopsis of one of the programmes is 181 words long, and includes a 6 word mention of Hasson.
- None of this comes near to constituting substantial coverage of Hasson, and some of them are not independent sources either. I searched for better sources, but found nothing significantly different in character from the cited sources. Unfortunately, the article gives no indication that Seamus Hasson satisfies Wikipedia's notability guidelines, nor does there appear to be any evidence available anywhere else that he does so. JBW ( talk) 14:49, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People and Northern Ireland. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 17:46, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
- Keep Please do not delete this article. Seamus was a well educated man and keen historian - his writings are important to mark events in local history. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.240.159.95 ( talk) 21:07, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
- 90.240.159.95 has made no other edits. JBW ( talk) 08:50, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
- Keep I think this article should not be deleted as there is detailed interesting history within the content of this item. 146.198.186.198 ( talk) 21:35, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
- 146.198.186.198 has made no edits other than about this article. JBW ( talk) 08:50, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
- Unfortunately, Wikipedia's notability criteria don't include the subject of an article being well educated or keen, or there being detailed or interesting material associated with him. I suggest you look at the general notability guideline and the guideline on notability of people to see what kind of thing is needed, and then see whether you can find evidence that Seamus Hasson satisfies any of the criteria given there. JBW ( talk) 09:27, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
- Delete as the other delete comments, I don't believe this article meets the notability criteria for Wikipedia. Local historians have their place and I've always appreciated local talks when I've attended but very few local historians would meet notability criteria. Knitsey ( talk) 14:15, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
- Keep - Seamus Hasson is a notable figure, having initiated the Benbradagh magazine and supporting the Winding Roe magazine which are journals, held in high esteem by Academics.
- All editions of both the Benbradagh and Winding Roe magazines are held by The Agency for the Legal Deposit Libraries in Edinburgh as well as the national libraries of the Anglo-Celtic islands, being:- National Library of Scotland; The Bodleian Library at Oxford University; National Library of Wales; Cambridge University Library and The Library of Trinity College, Dublin. This demonstrates the notability of Seamus Hasson due to the importance and value of the contribution which these journals, he was involved in and, compiled over a period of fifty years have.
- Both titles are also held in the McClay Library, Queen's University of Belfast, the Royal Irish Academy, Dublin and and in the Legal Deposits of The British Library in Wetherby.
- In addition to this, Allen County Public Library, Genealogy Center, Fort Wayne, Indiana hold both titles. All of these institutions are esteemed, illustrious institutions who subscribed to the receipt of each journal annually. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Glenshane ( talk • contribs) 15:45, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
- The Agency for the Legal Deposit Libraries does not hold copies of publications; it acts on behalf of the Bodleian Library, the Cambridge University Library, the Library of Trinity College, Dublin, the National Library of Wales and the National Library of Scotland to obtain copies of publications for them, and passes those copies on to the libraries. Those five libraries and the British Library, which you also mention, have an automatic legal right to a copy of every publication published in the United Kingdom and the Republic of Ireland, so it is far from true that the fact that they have the magazines "demonstrates the notability" even of those magazines, let alone of Seamus Hasson. I know nothing about the inclusion standards for the other libraries that you mention, but it isn't relevant anyway, since being a contributor to publications held in libraries is not part of Wikipedia's notability criteria. I echo my advice above to actually read the relevant Wikipedia notability guidelines and try to find evidence which complies with them. If you can do that then the article is likely to be kept, and I for one will support keeping it, but that isn't going to happen on the basis of ideas which may seem like reasonable indications of notability to anyone new to contributing to Wikipedia, but which are unconnected to anything in the notability guidelines.
JBW (
talk)
16:36, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
- Heck I've got a book held in several libraries and I'm definitely not notable, and neither is my book. Canterbury Tail talk 17:24, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
- The Agency for the Legal Deposit Libraries does not hold copies of publications; it acts on behalf of the Bodleian Library, the Cambridge University Library, the Library of Trinity College, Dublin, the National Library of Wales and the National Library of Scotland to obtain copies of publications for them, and passes those copies on to the libraries. Those five libraries and the British Library, which you also mention, have an automatic legal right to a copy of every publication published in the United Kingdom and the Republic of Ireland, so it is far from true that the fact that they have the magazines "demonstrates the notability" even of those magazines, let alone of Seamus Hasson. I know nothing about the inclusion standards for the other libraries that you mention, but it isn't relevant anyway, since being a contributor to publications held in libraries is not part of Wikipedia's notability criteria. I echo my advice above to actually read the relevant Wikipedia notability guidelines and try to find evidence which complies with them. If you can do that then the article is likely to be kept, and I for one will support keeping it, but that isn't going to happen on the basis of ideas which may seem like reasonable indications of notability to anyone new to contributing to Wikipedia, but which are unconnected to anything in the notability guidelines.
JBW (
talk)
16:36, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
- KEEP Seamus Hasson contributed his Dungiven local historical knowledge to 29 out of 30 Benbradagh issues. These magazines were then bound together and are now known as the Second Book of Dungiven. Seamus served on Benbradagh's editorial committee for it's entire lifespan of 30 years and then went on to contribute to The Winding Roe magazine until the year before his death in 2016. He bequeathed to Dungiven a great treasure of his writings that is well respected for its accurate detail, a perfectionist to many of us that have read his work.
- Seamus Hasson has also been recognised by other writers in their research -
- The Irish highwaymen by Stephen Dunford.
- Matt a biography of Matthew H. McCloskey by Robert J Ehlinger. Owenbegpamela ( talk) 07:46, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
- .KEEP I also wish to object to this proposal as I do not see anything controversial in this article 213.104.114.26 ( talk) 11:48, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.