- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Seraphimblade Talk to me 09:13, 9 April 2023 (UTC)
Saaren (singer)
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- Saaren (singer) ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
The singer does not seem to confirm the Wikipedia:Notability (music) policies. NameGame ( talk) 08:25, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Artists, Women, and Iran. NameGame ( talk) 08:25, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. QuietHere ( talk) 08:43, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Iran-related deletion discussions.-- 84.32.131.79 ( talk) 21:14, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions.-- 84.32.131.79 ( talk) 21:17, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
- Keep notable musician and multimedia artist with reliable sources under the name of Saaren. [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6], [7], [8], [9], [10] And pay attention to this point, Iranian female singers are not allowed to work in Iran, so the resources are very limited.-- 3567b ( talk) 09:38, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
- Wikipedia articles depend on notability as confirmed in significant and reliable sources. The oppression of Iranian entertainers is tragic, but that is a far bigger geopolitical problem that will not be solved by giving one person a sympathy placement in Wikipedia. --- DOOMSDAYER520 ( TALK| CONTRIBS) 15:46, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
- Meanwhile, I attempted to formulate a vote but must declare myself unqualified due to poor knowledge of the sources in which the singer appears. She shows up online in four different searches: her stage name سارن, the anglicized Saaren, her birth name سارا خوششانس, and the anglicized Sara Khoshshans. In all cases she appears in a lot of Farsi sites, and to me they look like mostly social media and streaming services, which do not qualify as
reliable sources here. However, I will defer to anyone who knows more about all those Farsi sources and their reliability. ---
DOOMSDAYER520 (
TALK|
CONTRIBS) 15:55, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
- That is not a reason to offer any opinion in this debate, but to search harder. Her Persian stage name and birth name are clearly visible in the article, and can be used to find websites in that language. Then you could use Google Translate to find if those sources are reliable.
84.32.131.79 (
talk) 21:10, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
- I did not vote, while admitting that I am not qualified to determine if those sources are reliable, per Wikipedia's very precise definition of a reliable source. More evidence is required beyond the quantity of search results. If you can deliver that evidence, please do so because you haven't yet. --- DOOMSDAYER520 ( TALK| CONTRIBS) 01:42, 13 March 2023 (UTC)
- That is not a reason to offer any opinion in this debate, but to search harder. Her Persian stage name and birth name are clearly visible in the article, and can be used to find websites in that language. Then you could use Google Translate to find if those sources are reliable.
84.32.131.79 (
talk) 21:10, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
- Keep according to WP:SINGER she clearly passes point #11 because her song's plying in every Persian musice TV frequently. -- 84.32.131.79 ( talk) 21:06, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 07:20, 17 March 2023 (UTC)Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Extraordinary Writ ( talk) 18:59, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
- Delete: I searched based on the suggestions above and found nothing that meets IS RS with SIGCOV of the subject. None of the sources in the article are IS RS with SIGCOV addressing the subject directly and indepth. They are promo, interviews, primary.
- Sources above are promo [11], forum post [12], 404 [13]. After the 404 page I stopped looking at 3567b sources because it shows this is just link spamming.
- Keep votes seem to be centered on the false assumption that popularity and promotion equals notability.
- BLPs need clearly IS RS with SIGCOV addressing the subject directly and indepth for both content and notabilty to avoid abuse. A BLP with no IS RS is an unsourced BLP and needs to be deleted. // Timothy :: talk 15:31, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
- Delete - I commented above that I felt uncomfortable about assessing the sources from a language I do not know and called on native speakers to help the WP community. My attempt at a culturally sensitive recommendation received no thanks and I was only ordered to search harder and use Google Translate. So I did. Living in an oppressive regime, the singer appears doomed to promote herself via social media feeds, socialite appearances, and gossip sites that repeat press releases. Via Google Translate those sources do not qualify as the significant coverage that is required here. I am willing to conclude that her attempts at an honest singing career are being oppressed by her country's hardliners, but that problem is far larger than this article. --- DOOMSDAYER520 ( TALK| CONTRIBS) 14:25, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Guerillero Parlez Moi 15:07, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Seraphimblade Talk to me 09:13, 9 April 2023 (UTC)
Saaren (singer)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Saaren (singer) ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
The singer does not seem to confirm the Wikipedia:Notability (music) policies. NameGame ( talk) 08:25, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Artists, Women, and Iran. NameGame ( talk) 08:25, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. QuietHere ( talk) 08:43, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Iran-related deletion discussions.-- 84.32.131.79 ( talk) 21:14, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions.-- 84.32.131.79 ( talk) 21:17, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
- Keep notable musician and multimedia artist with reliable sources under the name of Saaren. [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6], [7], [8], [9], [10] And pay attention to this point, Iranian female singers are not allowed to work in Iran, so the resources are very limited.-- 3567b ( talk) 09:38, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
- Wikipedia articles depend on notability as confirmed in significant and reliable sources. The oppression of Iranian entertainers is tragic, but that is a far bigger geopolitical problem that will not be solved by giving one person a sympathy placement in Wikipedia. --- DOOMSDAYER520 ( TALK| CONTRIBS) 15:46, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
- Meanwhile, I attempted to formulate a vote but must declare myself unqualified due to poor knowledge of the sources in which the singer appears. She shows up online in four different searches: her stage name سارن, the anglicized Saaren, her birth name سارا خوششانس, and the anglicized Sara Khoshshans. In all cases she appears in a lot of Farsi sites, and to me they look like mostly social media and streaming services, which do not qualify as
reliable sources here. However, I will defer to anyone who knows more about all those Farsi sources and their reliability. ---
DOOMSDAYER520 (
TALK|
CONTRIBS) 15:55, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
- That is not a reason to offer any opinion in this debate, but to search harder. Her Persian stage name and birth name are clearly visible in the article, and can be used to find websites in that language. Then you could use Google Translate to find if those sources are reliable.
84.32.131.79 (
talk) 21:10, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
- I did not vote, while admitting that I am not qualified to determine if those sources are reliable, per Wikipedia's very precise definition of a reliable source. More evidence is required beyond the quantity of search results. If you can deliver that evidence, please do so because you haven't yet. --- DOOMSDAYER520 ( TALK| CONTRIBS) 01:42, 13 March 2023 (UTC)
- That is not a reason to offer any opinion in this debate, but to search harder. Her Persian stage name and birth name are clearly visible in the article, and can be used to find websites in that language. Then you could use Google Translate to find if those sources are reliable.
84.32.131.79 (
talk) 21:10, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
- Keep according to WP:SINGER she clearly passes point #11 because her song's plying in every Persian musice TV frequently. -- 84.32.131.79 ( talk) 21:06, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 07:20, 17 March 2023 (UTC)Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Extraordinary Writ ( talk) 18:59, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
- Delete: I searched based on the suggestions above and found nothing that meets IS RS with SIGCOV of the subject. None of the sources in the article are IS RS with SIGCOV addressing the subject directly and indepth. They are promo, interviews, primary.
- Sources above are promo [11], forum post [12], 404 [13]. After the 404 page I stopped looking at 3567b sources because it shows this is just link spamming.
- Keep votes seem to be centered on the false assumption that popularity and promotion equals notability.
- BLPs need clearly IS RS with SIGCOV addressing the subject directly and indepth for both content and notabilty to avoid abuse. A BLP with no IS RS is an unsourced BLP and needs to be deleted. // Timothy :: talk 15:31, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
- Delete - I commented above that I felt uncomfortable about assessing the sources from a language I do not know and called on native speakers to help the WP community. My attempt at a culturally sensitive recommendation received no thanks and I was only ordered to search harder and use Google Translate. So I did. Living in an oppressive regime, the singer appears doomed to promote herself via social media feeds, socialite appearances, and gossip sites that repeat press releases. Via Google Translate those sources do not qualify as the significant coverage that is required here. I am willing to conclude that her attempts at an honest singing career are being oppressed by her country's hardliners, but that problem is far larger than this article. --- DOOMSDAYER520 ( TALK| CONTRIBS) 14:25, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Guerillero Parlez Moi 15:07, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.