- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. czar 21:54, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
Rotoli Xaba
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- Rotoli Xaba ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Is the twenty-n-th person to qualify as Y notable? I don't think WP:GNG is met here. Ari T. Benchaim ( talk) 01:15, 2 July 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. Ari T. Benchaim ( talk) 01:15, 2 July 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Medicine and South Africa. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 09:31, 2 July 2022 (UTC)
- Weak keep - Whether the 23rd to accomplish something is significant is a matter of debate, but given the history of South Africa and the apartheid regime, I would say that it qualifies as a
WP:CCS. If it weren't for that, this article would just be essentially a resume, hence why I am on the fence. There is likely other coverage, but the best we have so far is
[1] this journal (accessible via
WP:TWL if you want to check it) which has 12 mentions of Xaba and goes into some detail. This may be on the borderline of notability, but I'm not completely convinced yet.
ASUKITE
14:44, 2 July 2022 (UTC)
- Comment: while I generally agree, Dr. Xaba qualified in Scotland first, where he was at least not legally subject to any restrictions he would have been under apartheid (also, he qualified in the 1920s-1930s, apartheid began in the 1950s whereas Dr. Xaba died in 1953, which would be considered the earliest days of apartheid). Ari T. Benchaim ( talk) 00:35, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- Comment Apartheid (as a formalised ideological large scale system of racial discrimination) began in 1948 with the election of the National Party, but legal racial discrimination long preceded the introduction of Apartheid in South Africa. Park3r ( talk) 01:45, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
- Delete we do not have enough sources giving indepth coverage of him to justify an article. We may have sources that will let us create a broader article on doctors of African descent working in South Africa as a group in a given time, but that is not the same as having enough sources to create an article on this particular person. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 18:05, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- Comment Being the "23rd person of colour" to become a doctor doesn't preclude him from possibly being the first black African. "Black", or POC in South African parlance includes Indians and
Coloureds, and it's quite likely that the majority of early POC doctors were actually Indian, not black Africans. I'll try to find more sources.
Park3r (
talk)
01:36, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
- That's a very good point. If that turns out to be the case, I will withdraw the nomination - that is clearly notable. Ari T. Benchaim ( talk) 12:08, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
- "Possibly" doesn't cut it, we don't have those sources. cagliost ( talk) 12:04, 13 July 2022 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 03:07, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Delete. We do not have the depth of coverage to justify an article about this person specifically. The sources would be better placed in an article about early black doctors in South Africa. cagliost ( talk) 12:04, 13 July 2022 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. czar 21:54, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
Rotoli Xaba
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Rotoli Xaba ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Is the twenty-n-th person to qualify as Y notable? I don't think WP:GNG is met here. Ari T. Benchaim ( talk) 01:15, 2 July 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. Ari T. Benchaim ( talk) 01:15, 2 July 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Medicine and South Africa. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 09:31, 2 July 2022 (UTC)
- Weak keep - Whether the 23rd to accomplish something is significant is a matter of debate, but given the history of South Africa and the apartheid regime, I would say that it qualifies as a
WP:CCS. If it weren't for that, this article would just be essentially a resume, hence why I am on the fence. There is likely other coverage, but the best we have so far is
[1] this journal (accessible via
WP:TWL if you want to check it) which has 12 mentions of Xaba and goes into some detail. This may be on the borderline of notability, but I'm not completely convinced yet.
ASUKITE
14:44, 2 July 2022 (UTC)
- Comment: while I generally agree, Dr. Xaba qualified in Scotland first, where he was at least not legally subject to any restrictions he would have been under apartheid (also, he qualified in the 1920s-1930s, apartheid began in the 1950s whereas Dr. Xaba died in 1953, which would be considered the earliest days of apartheid). Ari T. Benchaim ( talk) 00:35, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- Comment Apartheid (as a formalised ideological large scale system of racial discrimination) began in 1948 with the election of the National Party, but legal racial discrimination long preceded the introduction of Apartheid in South Africa. Park3r ( talk) 01:45, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
- Delete we do not have enough sources giving indepth coverage of him to justify an article. We may have sources that will let us create a broader article on doctors of African descent working in South Africa as a group in a given time, but that is not the same as having enough sources to create an article on this particular person. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 18:05, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- Comment Being the "23rd person of colour" to become a doctor doesn't preclude him from possibly being the first black African. "Black", or POC in South African parlance includes Indians and
Coloureds, and it's quite likely that the majority of early POC doctors were actually Indian, not black Africans. I'll try to find more sources.
Park3r (
talk)
01:36, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
- That's a very good point. If that turns out to be the case, I will withdraw the nomination - that is clearly notable. Ari T. Benchaim ( talk) 12:08, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
- "Possibly" doesn't cut it, we don't have those sources. cagliost ( talk) 12:04, 13 July 2022 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 03:07, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Delete. We do not have the depth of coverage to justify an article about this person specifically. The sources would be better placed in an article about early black doctors in South Africa. cagliost ( talk) 12:04, 13 July 2022 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.