- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Given that there is disagreement about even his first name, we have serious unresolved WP:V issues here. The "keep" opinions argue that relevant sources exist, but do not cite them, which makes their arguments unconvincing and unhelpful. The "delete" arguments are therefore stronger. Sandstein 13:31, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
Rolf Steiger
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- Rolf Steiger ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
- Delete Non-notable athlete that does not pass WP:GNG. Tooncool64 ( talk) 07:36, 4 January 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Football, Austria, and Italy. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 12:05, 4 January 2024 (UTC)
- Delete – Zero sources on the article. Svartner ( talk) 13:34, 4 January 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 19:23, 4 January 2024 (UTC)
- Keep Strange nomination, take it you didn't look at the Italian wikipedia, [1], there are a couple sources, I believe there are more offline sources, and there is indication he might have been a bit more important than you realise. Govvy ( talk) 21:08, 4 January 2024 (UTC)
- Comment The Italian wiki page is for Jean Steiger. There is confusion over whether Rolf Steiger is the same person as Jean Steiger or someone entirely different. Dougal18 ( talk) 12:48, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
- @ Dougal18: I spent about half an hours trying to find stuff online for an either "Jean Rolf Steiger" and "Rolf Jean Steiger". I believe there is a bit of investigation work to be done here about this person, and it would most likely have to be an off line sources search in Bern, Switzerland and Italy. I don't believe this should be deleted, that's what my gut tells me. :/ Regards. Govvy ( talk) 09:09, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
- Keep per Govvy. Giant Snowman 14:12, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
- Draftify. No reason to have an article in mainspace potentially on the wrong dude!!
-
JoelleJay (
talk)
18:14, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
- I think that's more an issue for WP:BLP. I don't see the great harm in assuming one of two options for the first name and nationality of someone who is certainly dead. I can't think off the top of my head, but I know there are Wikipedia articles on people of uncertain name, nationality, birthplace etc. That's not alone a reason to remove it. Unknown Temptation ( talk) 23:17, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting as I don't see a consensus here on what should happen to this article or whether Rolf Steiger is actually Jean Steiger. The reason that fact is important is whether or not the sources for Jean could apply to Rolf. More consideration needs to happen.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 08:12, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
- Weak delete - While we can confirm Steiger's existence and a rough outline of his Italian football career through the couple of sentences in the Il Napolista article, there is simply nothing available that amounts to significant coverage. I don't have access to Italian newspaper archives from the early 20th century, so perhaps there is something there, but from what is available, this fails WP:GNG. Jogurney ( talk) 15:59, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
- Keep - @
Svartner:, Per Govvy and Giantsnowman. Has online sources and defintly has offline sources. Thanks,
Das osmnezz (
talk)
19:52, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
- As you know,
WP:GNG requires more than the mere existence of sources. Your rationale is not consistent with policy.
Jogurney (
talk)
20:42, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
- The person in question was only part of a Napoli technical committee in the 1920s, and it is not even possible to properly confirm his name. Clearly fails in
WP:GNG.
Svartner (
talk)
02:20, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
- Umm, @ Jogurney and Svartner: according to some sources on the Italian wikipedia after Terrile and Molnár departed Napoli, Steiger then became the first team coach. Hence why I declared he was a bit more important to the club in my above post and part of my reason for wanting to keep. I hope you guys do have a read of the Italian wiki page on him. Regards. Govvy ( talk) 14:47, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
- The person in question was only part of a Napoli technical committee in the 1920s, and it is not even possible to properly confirm his name. Clearly fails in
WP:GNG.
Svartner (
talk)
02:20, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
- As you know,
WP:GNG requires more than the mere existence of sources. Your rationale is not consistent with policy.
Jogurney (
talk)
20:42, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
- @ Svartner:, Thanks, Das osmnezz ( talk) 19:51, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
- Delete - so nearly two weeks and no evidence of WP:SIGCOV, and "it is not even possible to properly confirm his name"?
- Number 1 "keep" has unclear words like "I believe there are" and "indication he might have been a bit more", and then gives link to a different man - so everybody has to assume is this man? From another language Wikipedia? WP:NOTSOURCE. Then there is more "I believe" stuff and, this is just ridiculous, why nobody does notice this - "I don't believe this should be deleted, that's what my gut tells me". Seriously? My gut?
- Number 2 "keep" just goes after number 1. Nothing else. Seriously?
- Number 3 "keep" follows 1 and 2. That gut again? Is everybody reading this gut?
- Even "weak delete" says "there is simply nothing available that amounts to significant coverage... from what is available, this fails WP:GNG".
- But seriously - biggest argument for "keep" is - someone has their gut speaking? Do we all bow down before it and obey this gut? I will not. -- Hagesen 21:28, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Given that there is disagreement about even his first name, we have serious unresolved WP:V issues here. The "keep" opinions argue that relevant sources exist, but do not cite them, which makes their arguments unconvincing and unhelpful. The "delete" arguments are therefore stronger. Sandstein 13:31, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
Rolf Steiger
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Rolf Steiger ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
- Delete Non-notable athlete that does not pass WP:GNG. Tooncool64 ( talk) 07:36, 4 January 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Football, Austria, and Italy. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 12:05, 4 January 2024 (UTC)
- Delete – Zero sources on the article. Svartner ( talk) 13:34, 4 January 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 19:23, 4 January 2024 (UTC)
- Keep Strange nomination, take it you didn't look at the Italian wikipedia, [1], there are a couple sources, I believe there are more offline sources, and there is indication he might have been a bit more important than you realise. Govvy ( talk) 21:08, 4 January 2024 (UTC)
- Comment The Italian wiki page is for Jean Steiger. There is confusion over whether Rolf Steiger is the same person as Jean Steiger or someone entirely different. Dougal18 ( talk) 12:48, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
- @ Dougal18: I spent about half an hours trying to find stuff online for an either "Jean Rolf Steiger" and "Rolf Jean Steiger". I believe there is a bit of investigation work to be done here about this person, and it would most likely have to be an off line sources search in Bern, Switzerland and Italy. I don't believe this should be deleted, that's what my gut tells me. :/ Regards. Govvy ( talk) 09:09, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
- Keep per Govvy. Giant Snowman 14:12, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
- Draftify. No reason to have an article in mainspace potentially on the wrong dude!!
-
JoelleJay (
talk)
18:14, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
- I think that's more an issue for WP:BLP. I don't see the great harm in assuming one of two options for the first name and nationality of someone who is certainly dead. I can't think off the top of my head, but I know there are Wikipedia articles on people of uncertain name, nationality, birthplace etc. That's not alone a reason to remove it. Unknown Temptation ( talk) 23:17, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting as I don't see a consensus here on what should happen to this article or whether Rolf Steiger is actually Jean Steiger. The reason that fact is important is whether or not the sources for Jean could apply to Rolf. More consideration needs to happen.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 08:12, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
- Weak delete - While we can confirm Steiger's existence and a rough outline of his Italian football career through the couple of sentences in the Il Napolista article, there is simply nothing available that amounts to significant coverage. I don't have access to Italian newspaper archives from the early 20th century, so perhaps there is something there, but from what is available, this fails WP:GNG. Jogurney ( talk) 15:59, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
- Keep - @
Svartner:, Per Govvy and Giantsnowman. Has online sources and defintly has offline sources. Thanks,
Das osmnezz (
talk)
19:52, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
- As you know,
WP:GNG requires more than the mere existence of sources. Your rationale is not consistent with policy.
Jogurney (
talk)
20:42, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
- The person in question was only part of a Napoli technical committee in the 1920s, and it is not even possible to properly confirm his name. Clearly fails in
WP:GNG.
Svartner (
talk)
02:20, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
- Umm, @ Jogurney and Svartner: according to some sources on the Italian wikipedia after Terrile and Molnár departed Napoli, Steiger then became the first team coach. Hence why I declared he was a bit more important to the club in my above post and part of my reason for wanting to keep. I hope you guys do have a read of the Italian wiki page on him. Regards. Govvy ( talk) 14:47, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
- The person in question was only part of a Napoli technical committee in the 1920s, and it is not even possible to properly confirm his name. Clearly fails in
WP:GNG.
Svartner (
talk)
02:20, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
- As you know,
WP:GNG requires more than the mere existence of sources. Your rationale is not consistent with policy.
Jogurney (
talk)
20:42, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
- @ Svartner:, Thanks, Das osmnezz ( talk) 19:51, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
- Delete - so nearly two weeks and no evidence of WP:SIGCOV, and "it is not even possible to properly confirm his name"?
- Number 1 "keep" has unclear words like "I believe there are" and "indication he might have been a bit more", and then gives link to a different man - so everybody has to assume is this man? From another language Wikipedia? WP:NOTSOURCE. Then there is more "I believe" stuff and, this is just ridiculous, why nobody does notice this - "I don't believe this should be deleted, that's what my gut tells me". Seriously? My gut?
- Number 2 "keep" just goes after number 1. Nothing else. Seriously?
- Number 3 "keep" follows 1 and 2. That gut again? Is everybody reading this gut?
- Even "weak delete" says "there is simply nothing available that amounts to significant coverage... from what is available, this fails WP:GNG".
- But seriously - biggest argument for "keep" is - someone has their gut speaking? Do we all bow down before it and obey this gut? I will not. -- Hagesen 21:28, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.