- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. (non-admin closure) NotAGenious ( talk) 08:34, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
Ray Ritchie (Australian rules footballer)
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- Ray Ritchie (Australian rules footballer) ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Played a single AFL game. Nothing on the page to show why they would be considered notable. JMWt ( talk) 08:33, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople and Australia. JMWt ( talk) 08:33, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
- Keep Nothing in the nomination for deletion to show why it should be deleted. It's referenced to more than just database sources. You expecting more than a recruitment dispute making the papers 100 years ago?
The-Pope (
talk)
15:55, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
- The WP:GNG is clear about the necessary level of sourcing. A player who played a single game at the highest level is not assumed to be notable, therefore !keep have to have good reasons for inclusion. JMWt ( talk) 15:59, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
- Keep per The-Pope. Nominator has not made a cogent argument for why the current sourcing, which is to multiple independent reliable sources, does not already prove the subject's notability.
Jenks24 (
talk)
23:01, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
- WP:BASIC says "People are presumed notable if they have received significant coverage in multiple published secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent of each other, and independent of the subject."
- There are sources on the page, however reference 6 is a death notice and 4 of the other 5 are very short news articles. Unless you are saying - with additional evidence please - that the panel which prevented him from playing is important, this is news.
WP:NOTNEWS. The only other source offered is an encyclopedia of every AFL player who has ever played. Unless that has a very significant entry on this player, that's not good enough. I can't read it, so do let me know how much is there.
JMWt (
talk)
07:51, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
- This is a misreading of NOTNEWS, which disallows indiscriminate articles on breaking news events with no enduring notability. It is not a prohibition on using newspapers as sources altogether, nor does it license the inference everything reported in a newspaper article is "news" and therefore not permitted to count towards notability. –
Tera
tix
₵
12:17, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
- I've never said, nor meant to imply that there is a prohibition on using newspapers as sources altogether. Newspapers are good ways to show notability however in this specific instance we have short news articles on an individual who is basically never mentioned again. He is only mentioned at all because of a one-off event.
JMWt (
talk)
15:53, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
- I've had another pass at expanding the article today, and it's clear there's much more coverage than just a one-off event. – Tera tix ₵ 05:42, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
- I've never said, nor meant to imply that there is a prohibition on using newspapers as sources altogether. Newspapers are good ways to show notability however in this specific instance we have short news articles on an individual who is basically never mentioned again. He is only mentioned at all because of a one-off event.
JMWt (
talk)
15:53, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
- This is a misreading of NOTNEWS, which disallows indiscriminate articles on breaking news events with no enduring notability. It is not a prohibition on using newspapers as sources altogether, nor does it license the inference everything reported in a newspaper article is "news" and therefore not permitted to count towards notability. –
Tera
tix
₵
12:17, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
- Keep coverage in The Argus and The Ballarat Star satisfies GNG, especially considered in conjunction with further discussion in The Herald and The Sun. – Tera tix ₵ 12:07, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
- Keep -- this move is part of a deliberate, badly informed, historically destructive, and counter-productive ("post-1980 AFL centred") process to eliminate the articles of individual footballers who took part in the early days of the Victorian Football League competition.
One editor, displaying similar inappropriate sentiments, had already removed the important article relating to an allegedly non-notable St Kilda footballer -- "Paddy McGuinness (Australian footballer) (see List of Victorian Football League players who died on active service#World War I) -- who, also, died while serving with the AIF.
Fortunately, I was able to transfer some of the references to the (now deleted) item in the list of war dead.
For the deleted article, see: [1].
As a consequence of the (unwarranted) deletion of the McGuinness article, if one clicks on the "blue link" at "Paddy McGuinness", "1901" at List of St Kilda Football Club players#1900s one is immediately loop-redirected to List of St Kilda Football Club players (i.e. the top of the same page).
As an additional protest, this wilful destruction of the Wikipedia's capacity to present the only complete, comprehensive collection of (the finite number of) pre-AFL, VFL footballers has been made additionally significant (and salient) by the unexpected loss to dedicated VFL historians of the extremely valuable resource known as Boyles Football Photos: see [2].
This item (and others like it) must not be deleted. Lindsay658 ( talk) 23:31, 11 November 2023 (UTC) - Keep – the efforts taken since the nomination demonstrate enough coverage of his wider football career to meet a relatively low WP:GNG bar – and while he's a little bit WP:SINGLEEVENTy, with the extra coverage of his country career I'm comfortable to support keeping this article. There's many less-covered and less notable low game VFL footballers out there whom I'd be deleting ahead of Ritchie. Aspirex ( talk) 01:07, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
- Keep Over 20 references to a handful of well established notable newspapers clearly passes WP:GNG. What a joke of a nomination (though it is a bit funny as he's a Carlton player ;) ) -- SuperJew ( talk) 06:18, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. (non-admin closure) NotAGenious ( talk) 08:34, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
Ray Ritchie (Australian rules footballer)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Ray Ritchie (Australian rules footballer) ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Played a single AFL game. Nothing on the page to show why they would be considered notable. JMWt ( talk) 08:33, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople and Australia. JMWt ( talk) 08:33, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
- Keep Nothing in the nomination for deletion to show why it should be deleted. It's referenced to more than just database sources. You expecting more than a recruitment dispute making the papers 100 years ago?
The-Pope (
talk)
15:55, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
- The WP:GNG is clear about the necessary level of sourcing. A player who played a single game at the highest level is not assumed to be notable, therefore !keep have to have good reasons for inclusion. JMWt ( talk) 15:59, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
- Keep per The-Pope. Nominator has not made a cogent argument for why the current sourcing, which is to multiple independent reliable sources, does not already prove the subject's notability.
Jenks24 (
talk)
23:01, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
- WP:BASIC says "People are presumed notable if they have received significant coverage in multiple published secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent of each other, and independent of the subject."
- There are sources on the page, however reference 6 is a death notice and 4 of the other 5 are very short news articles. Unless you are saying - with additional evidence please - that the panel which prevented him from playing is important, this is news.
WP:NOTNEWS. The only other source offered is an encyclopedia of every AFL player who has ever played. Unless that has a very significant entry on this player, that's not good enough. I can't read it, so do let me know how much is there.
JMWt (
talk)
07:51, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
- This is a misreading of NOTNEWS, which disallows indiscriminate articles on breaking news events with no enduring notability. It is not a prohibition on using newspapers as sources altogether, nor does it license the inference everything reported in a newspaper article is "news" and therefore not permitted to count towards notability. –
Tera
tix
₵
12:17, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
- I've never said, nor meant to imply that there is a prohibition on using newspapers as sources altogether. Newspapers are good ways to show notability however in this specific instance we have short news articles on an individual who is basically never mentioned again. He is only mentioned at all because of a one-off event.
JMWt (
talk)
15:53, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
- I've had another pass at expanding the article today, and it's clear there's much more coverage than just a one-off event. – Tera tix ₵ 05:42, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
- I've never said, nor meant to imply that there is a prohibition on using newspapers as sources altogether. Newspapers are good ways to show notability however in this specific instance we have short news articles on an individual who is basically never mentioned again. He is only mentioned at all because of a one-off event.
JMWt (
talk)
15:53, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
- This is a misreading of NOTNEWS, which disallows indiscriminate articles on breaking news events with no enduring notability. It is not a prohibition on using newspapers as sources altogether, nor does it license the inference everything reported in a newspaper article is "news" and therefore not permitted to count towards notability. –
Tera
tix
₵
12:17, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
- Keep coverage in The Argus and The Ballarat Star satisfies GNG, especially considered in conjunction with further discussion in The Herald and The Sun. – Tera tix ₵ 12:07, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
- Keep -- this move is part of a deliberate, badly informed, historically destructive, and counter-productive ("post-1980 AFL centred") process to eliminate the articles of individual footballers who took part in the early days of the Victorian Football League competition.
One editor, displaying similar inappropriate sentiments, had already removed the important article relating to an allegedly non-notable St Kilda footballer -- "Paddy McGuinness (Australian footballer) (see List of Victorian Football League players who died on active service#World War I) -- who, also, died while serving with the AIF.
Fortunately, I was able to transfer some of the references to the (now deleted) item in the list of war dead.
For the deleted article, see: [1].
As a consequence of the (unwarranted) deletion of the McGuinness article, if one clicks on the "blue link" at "Paddy McGuinness", "1901" at List of St Kilda Football Club players#1900s one is immediately loop-redirected to List of St Kilda Football Club players (i.e. the top of the same page).
As an additional protest, this wilful destruction of the Wikipedia's capacity to present the only complete, comprehensive collection of (the finite number of) pre-AFL, VFL footballers has been made additionally significant (and salient) by the unexpected loss to dedicated VFL historians of the extremely valuable resource known as Boyles Football Photos: see [2].
This item (and others like it) must not be deleted. Lindsay658 ( talk) 23:31, 11 November 2023 (UTC) - Keep – the efforts taken since the nomination demonstrate enough coverage of his wider football career to meet a relatively low WP:GNG bar – and while he's a little bit WP:SINGLEEVENTy, with the extra coverage of his country career I'm comfortable to support keeping this article. There's many less-covered and less notable low game VFL footballers out there whom I'd be deleting ahead of Ritchie. Aspirex ( talk) 01:07, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
- Keep Over 20 references to a handful of well established notable newspapers clearly passes WP:GNG. What a joke of a nomination (though it is a bit funny as he's a Carlton player ;) ) -- SuperJew ( talk) 06:18, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.