- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. § FreeRangeFrog croak 17:52, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
Raul Cătinaș
- Raul Cătinaș ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Non-notable kickboxer who fails to meet the kickboxing criteria at WP:KICK. Mdtemp ( talk) 19:22, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Martial arts-related deletion discussions. Peter Rehse ( talk) 20:53, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
- Delete As per nominator. Peter Rehse ( talk) 20:55, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. NorthAmerica 1000 04:12, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Romania-related deletion discussions. NorthAmerica 1000 04:12, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
- Strong keep I invite you to delete all the kickboxers on Wikipedia, because you have established some strange rules excluding SuperKombat and not only. Catinas is a very known kickboxer, a top 20 heavyweight in the world, he was ranked #10 on LiverKick.com at some moment. The article is well written, he was the youngest the fighter to qualify for the K-1 Final 16, after Badr Hari. Based on your judgment, you can also start deleting Dževad Poturak, Brice Guidon, Paul Slowinski, Makoto Uehara, etc. Sometimes you need to be wise. Now I'm asking myself, you are anti-SK fighters only? I will personally talk to some administrators about this. Dammst ( talk) 16:53, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
- Why have you spammed a message around to 21 administrators, who are not at all involved in this? Thine Antique Pen ( talk) 18:16, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
- Suddenly you appeared from nowhere, you had 0 discussions about kickboxing previously. Moreover you even recommended deletion. These admins will be involved because somebody is manipulating big!
Dammst (
talk) 18:33, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
- After reading my watchlist, I noticed your post on Jimbo's talk page. Thine Antique Pen ( talk) 18:36, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
- Even if SuperKombat was considered one of the organizations that could show notability, it wouldn't do him any good since he hasn't fought for their world title. Feel free to change my vote if someone can show he was ranked in the world top 10 by a reliable and independent source. Mdtemp ( talk) 17:29, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
- Suddenly you appeared from nowhere, you had 0 discussions about kickboxing previously. Moreover you even recommended deletion. These admins will be involved because somebody is manipulating big!
Dammst (
talk) 18:33, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
- Delete per not meeting WP:KICK#People, given the subject of the article hasn't fought for a major world title. Thine Antique Pen ( talk) 18:15, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
- COMMENT DEAR ADMINISTRATORS, SOME OF THE USERS INVOLVED IN THIS DISCUSSION ARE USING MORE ACCOUNTS. Thine Antique Pen is another account of a user previously involved in the discussion. Dammst ( talk) 16:29, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
- Accusing me of sockpuppetry, are you? Thine Antique Pen ( talk) 18:36, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
- COMMENT DEAR ADMINISTRATORS, Thine Antique Pen IS LYING, HE IS JUST ANOTHER ACCOUNT OF A USER INVOLVED IN THIS DISCUSSION. PLEASE DON'T BELIEVE HIM! HE WILL TRICK YOU ALL. Dammst ( talk) 18:43, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
- Delete Per WP:KICK. (And before you ask how I got here, Dammst, I watchlist a few admins you spammed your notice to.) Origamite ⓣ ⓒ 20:17, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
- Delete, but per WP:NSPORTS#Kickboxing. K-1 semifinalist seems to not quite satisfy the criteria. Since when do WikiProjects get to make up their own notability rules? Ivanvector ( talk) 21:18, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
- Look, some users know nothing about kickboxing, please ask Master Sun Tzu why they don't treat us fair and objectively SuperKombat isn't on the list after we have discussed. Then this PRehse is very subjective. It's not normal PRehse to act like he is superior, the same his friends to back him. The kickboxing fans are discriminated. The whole rules of the Wikipedia Kickboxing Project are wrong. They confuse bodies with promotions, then the bodies are notable but all the top promotions not. NOW THEY KEEP DELETING BECAUSE THEY HAVE ESTABLISHED SOME SUBJECTIVE CRITERIAS. Some UFC fans and PRehse who isn't a kickboxing fan. I ALREADY TALKED ABOUT THIS THERE BUT THEY DON'T ALLOW US TO MODIFY. And to make differences between promotions and bodies, to exemplify the WORLD GRAND PRIX and so on. Dammst ( talk) 22:13, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
- I am here to develop Wikipedia, I am a writer, I am not here to destroy, to delete. I don't write about non-notable kickboxers. Please believe me. ALL THE PEOPLE IN THE WORLD ARE CHECKING YOUR SITE FOR ITS KICKBOXING RECORDS. There is no Kickboxingrec. My intentions are 100% good. This is in the advatange of the Wikipedia and of more people than 2-3.
Dammst (
talk) 22:22, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
- Please calm down, Dammst. Your enthusiasm is admirable but it is not required here. I had a look at SUPERKOMBAT - it says SK partnered with K-1 for a time, but that partnership ended. The league is not listed as one of the ones we consider top-level, so although he won that championship and competed for it several other times, it's not enough to satisfy our criteria. The K-1 events he fought in were not world championships, they were qualifiers for the world championship events, and he did not qualify. He doesn't meet our standards for inclusion at this time. If you think that SK should be included in the organizations considered "major promotions" for this guideline, you should talk to the folks at WikiProject Kickboxing. Personally, I don't see evidence to support that. Ivanvector ( talk) 22:36, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
- Note: before this gets snowballed, I'm going to post over at WP:KICK for a more experienced opinion on SuperKombat. Cătinaș has competed for the championship of that promotion three times and won once. He could barely pass WP:NSPORTS#Kickboxing based on that. Ivanvector ( talk) 23:23, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
- Comment Even if SUPERKOMBAT is notable Catinas didn't fight for highest title, he only won qualifying tournament for the main one. So not notable. Master Sun Tzu ( talk) 11:13, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
- The naming of these tournaments is confusing, but I see that now. It's pretty clear-cut, I stand by my earlier !vote. Ivanvector ( talk) 15:42, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
- What about modifying the criterias? Look, Catinas is signed to the SuperKombat, he can't fight for a body title and just because he didn't fight the heavyweight championship in the promotion it doesn't mean he's not notable. ANY TOP PROMOTION WINNER OF A WORLD GRAND PRIX OR TOURNAMENT SHOULD BE NOTABLE! This is just wrong. He won a WGP.
Dammst (
talk) 12:03, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
- Again, that's something you'll have to take up with
WikiProject Martial arts. The guideline there is supposed to reflect the
general notability guideline. If you can establish that Cătinaș or other fighters who are signed to SK but haven't competed for its title are talked about frequently in
reliable sources such that they meet the general guideline, then it may be that the notability guidelines that the WikiProject came up with are wrong. I've looked and I don't see a lot of independent English-language sources, but you might have better success with Romanian sources (which I can't read). Just a thought. As it stands, this article doesn't pass.
Ivanvector (
talk) 15:48, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
- Superkombat consists of 4 qualifying tournaments for a main tournament, and winners of that main WGP are: Pavel Zhuravlev x2 and Frank Munoz. Catinas didn't even fight in a main WGP. Master Sun Tzu ( talk) 17:13, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
- Again, that's something you'll have to take up with
WikiProject Martial arts. The guideline there is supposed to reflect the
general notability guideline. If you can establish that Cătinaș or other fighters who are signed to SK but haven't competed for its title are talked about frequently in
reliable sources such that they meet the general guideline, then it may be that the notability guidelines that the WikiProject came up with are wrong. I've looked and I don't see a lot of independent English-language sources, but you might have better success with Romanian sources (which I can't read). Just a thought. As it stands, this article doesn't pass.
Ivanvector (
talk) 15:48, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. Doesn't currently meet the criteria for inclusion. ··· 日本穣 ? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 22:39, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
- Delete, the nominator is correct here. Discussing changing the notability criteria is a discussion for another place. Lankiveil ( speak to me) 02:15, 14 November 2014 (UTC).
- Delete He doesn't meet WP:KICK and the notability of SuperKombat fighters has already been discussed several times this year at WP:KICK. Papaursa ( talk) 18:58, 16 November 2014 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. § FreeRangeFrog croak 17:52, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
Raul Cătinaș
- Raul Cătinaș ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Non-notable kickboxer who fails to meet the kickboxing criteria at WP:KICK. Mdtemp ( talk) 19:22, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Martial arts-related deletion discussions. Peter Rehse ( talk) 20:53, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
- Delete As per nominator. Peter Rehse ( talk) 20:55, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. NorthAmerica 1000 04:12, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Romania-related deletion discussions. NorthAmerica 1000 04:12, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
- Strong keep I invite you to delete all the kickboxers on Wikipedia, because you have established some strange rules excluding SuperKombat and not only. Catinas is a very known kickboxer, a top 20 heavyweight in the world, he was ranked #10 on LiverKick.com at some moment. The article is well written, he was the youngest the fighter to qualify for the K-1 Final 16, after Badr Hari. Based on your judgment, you can also start deleting Dževad Poturak, Brice Guidon, Paul Slowinski, Makoto Uehara, etc. Sometimes you need to be wise. Now I'm asking myself, you are anti-SK fighters only? I will personally talk to some administrators about this. Dammst ( talk) 16:53, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
- Why have you spammed a message around to 21 administrators, who are not at all involved in this? Thine Antique Pen ( talk) 18:16, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
- Suddenly you appeared from nowhere, you had 0 discussions about kickboxing previously. Moreover you even recommended deletion. These admins will be involved because somebody is manipulating big!
Dammst (
talk) 18:33, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
- After reading my watchlist, I noticed your post on Jimbo's talk page. Thine Antique Pen ( talk) 18:36, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
- Even if SuperKombat was considered one of the organizations that could show notability, it wouldn't do him any good since he hasn't fought for their world title. Feel free to change my vote if someone can show he was ranked in the world top 10 by a reliable and independent source. Mdtemp ( talk) 17:29, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
- Suddenly you appeared from nowhere, you had 0 discussions about kickboxing previously. Moreover you even recommended deletion. These admins will be involved because somebody is manipulating big!
Dammst (
talk) 18:33, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
- Delete per not meeting WP:KICK#People, given the subject of the article hasn't fought for a major world title. Thine Antique Pen ( talk) 18:15, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
- COMMENT DEAR ADMINISTRATORS, SOME OF THE USERS INVOLVED IN THIS DISCUSSION ARE USING MORE ACCOUNTS. Thine Antique Pen is another account of a user previously involved in the discussion. Dammst ( talk) 16:29, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
- Accusing me of sockpuppetry, are you? Thine Antique Pen ( talk) 18:36, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
- COMMENT DEAR ADMINISTRATORS, Thine Antique Pen IS LYING, HE IS JUST ANOTHER ACCOUNT OF A USER INVOLVED IN THIS DISCUSSION. PLEASE DON'T BELIEVE HIM! HE WILL TRICK YOU ALL. Dammst ( talk) 18:43, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
- Delete Per WP:KICK. (And before you ask how I got here, Dammst, I watchlist a few admins you spammed your notice to.) Origamite ⓣ ⓒ 20:17, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
- Delete, but per WP:NSPORTS#Kickboxing. K-1 semifinalist seems to not quite satisfy the criteria. Since when do WikiProjects get to make up their own notability rules? Ivanvector ( talk) 21:18, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
- Look, some users know nothing about kickboxing, please ask Master Sun Tzu why they don't treat us fair and objectively SuperKombat isn't on the list after we have discussed. Then this PRehse is very subjective. It's not normal PRehse to act like he is superior, the same his friends to back him. The kickboxing fans are discriminated. The whole rules of the Wikipedia Kickboxing Project are wrong. They confuse bodies with promotions, then the bodies are notable but all the top promotions not. NOW THEY KEEP DELETING BECAUSE THEY HAVE ESTABLISHED SOME SUBJECTIVE CRITERIAS. Some UFC fans and PRehse who isn't a kickboxing fan. I ALREADY TALKED ABOUT THIS THERE BUT THEY DON'T ALLOW US TO MODIFY. And to make differences between promotions and bodies, to exemplify the WORLD GRAND PRIX and so on. Dammst ( talk) 22:13, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
- I am here to develop Wikipedia, I am a writer, I am not here to destroy, to delete. I don't write about non-notable kickboxers. Please believe me. ALL THE PEOPLE IN THE WORLD ARE CHECKING YOUR SITE FOR ITS KICKBOXING RECORDS. There is no Kickboxingrec. My intentions are 100% good. This is in the advatange of the Wikipedia and of more people than 2-3.
Dammst (
talk) 22:22, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
- Please calm down, Dammst. Your enthusiasm is admirable but it is not required here. I had a look at SUPERKOMBAT - it says SK partnered with K-1 for a time, but that partnership ended. The league is not listed as one of the ones we consider top-level, so although he won that championship and competed for it several other times, it's not enough to satisfy our criteria. The K-1 events he fought in were not world championships, they were qualifiers for the world championship events, and he did not qualify. He doesn't meet our standards for inclusion at this time. If you think that SK should be included in the organizations considered "major promotions" for this guideline, you should talk to the folks at WikiProject Kickboxing. Personally, I don't see evidence to support that. Ivanvector ( talk) 22:36, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
- Note: before this gets snowballed, I'm going to post over at WP:KICK for a more experienced opinion on SuperKombat. Cătinaș has competed for the championship of that promotion three times and won once. He could barely pass WP:NSPORTS#Kickboxing based on that. Ivanvector ( talk) 23:23, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
- Comment Even if SUPERKOMBAT is notable Catinas didn't fight for highest title, he only won qualifying tournament for the main one. So not notable. Master Sun Tzu ( talk) 11:13, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
- The naming of these tournaments is confusing, but I see that now. It's pretty clear-cut, I stand by my earlier !vote. Ivanvector ( talk) 15:42, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
- What about modifying the criterias? Look, Catinas is signed to the SuperKombat, he can't fight for a body title and just because he didn't fight the heavyweight championship in the promotion it doesn't mean he's not notable. ANY TOP PROMOTION WINNER OF A WORLD GRAND PRIX OR TOURNAMENT SHOULD BE NOTABLE! This is just wrong. He won a WGP.
Dammst (
talk) 12:03, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
- Again, that's something you'll have to take up with
WikiProject Martial arts. The guideline there is supposed to reflect the
general notability guideline. If you can establish that Cătinaș or other fighters who are signed to SK but haven't competed for its title are talked about frequently in
reliable sources such that they meet the general guideline, then it may be that the notability guidelines that the WikiProject came up with are wrong. I've looked and I don't see a lot of independent English-language sources, but you might have better success with Romanian sources (which I can't read). Just a thought. As it stands, this article doesn't pass.
Ivanvector (
talk) 15:48, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
- Superkombat consists of 4 qualifying tournaments for a main tournament, and winners of that main WGP are: Pavel Zhuravlev x2 and Frank Munoz. Catinas didn't even fight in a main WGP. Master Sun Tzu ( talk) 17:13, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
- Again, that's something you'll have to take up with
WikiProject Martial arts. The guideline there is supposed to reflect the
general notability guideline. If you can establish that Cătinaș or other fighters who are signed to SK but haven't competed for its title are talked about frequently in
reliable sources such that they meet the general guideline, then it may be that the notability guidelines that the WikiProject came up with are wrong. I've looked and I don't see a lot of independent English-language sources, but you might have better success with Romanian sources (which I can't read). Just a thought. As it stands, this article doesn't pass.
Ivanvector (
talk) 15:48, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. Doesn't currently meet the criteria for inclusion. ··· 日本穣 ? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 22:39, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
- Delete, the nominator is correct here. Discussing changing the notability criteria is a discussion for another place. Lankiveil ( speak to me) 02:15, 14 November 2014 (UTC).
- Delete He doesn't meet WP:KICK and the notability of SuperKombat fighters has already been discussed several times this year at WP:KICK. Papaursa ( talk) 18:58, 16 November 2014 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.