- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. We had informative discussion which shows that some of the nominated players may be notable while others may be no notable. I therefore close this as no consensus so that non-notable players could be renominated for deletion individually. Whoever wants to remonimate them, I recommend reading this discussion carefully, so that we do not waste our time for players which are clearly notable.-- Ymblanter ( talk) 07:13, 5 April 2016 (UTC)
Rasoul Najafi
- Rasoul Najafi ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
sports person isn't notable according to notability policy for volleyball players Tomcat313 ( talk) 17:44, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
I am also nominating the following related pages for the same reason: Tomcat313 ( talk) 18:03, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
- Vali Alipour ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Reza Abedini (volleyball) ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Vali Nourmohammadi ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Alireza Nasr Esfahani ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Saber Narimannejad ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Parviz Pezeshki ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Nasser Rahimi ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Ali Asghar Razmfar ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Hamed Rezaei ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Bahram Farid ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Ali Sajjadi ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Vahid Seyed-Abbasi ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Mojtaba Shaban ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Alireza Jadidi ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Saeid Shiroud ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Iraj Mikaeilzadeh ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Reza Ghara ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Behzad Heidarishahi ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Mikaeil Tajer ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Hello! All these pages are created by
Sander.v.Ginkel and I know he/she creates pages for all volleyball players, who played in any FIVB or CEV tournaments... I wrote to him/her, but he/she thinks she/he do it right but it is not truth - ALL pages of volleyball players created by
Sander.v.Ginkel has only information from the link of FIVB or CEV tournament even from few previous years and the informations are not right or complete. Please, someone should do intervention and stop
Sander.v.Ginkel. -
DariaPolonia (
talk) 19:18, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
- the problem here is even more,most of people who Ive nominated hadn't played any FIVB tournament even on the bench, but because their name is on the expanded list (e.g. world league 25 names list), this user has created their page.
Tomcat313 (
talk) 18:34, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
- DariaPolonia, just for the record, these pages are not all created by me. I created the pages of above nominated volleyball players who competed (for the national team) in the highest FIVB volleyball competitions. Sander.v.Ginkel ( Talk) 09:25, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
- the problem here is even more,most of people who Ive nominated hadn't played any FIVB tournament even on the bench, but because their name is on the expanded list (e.g. world league 25 names list), this user has created their page.
Tomcat313 (
talk) 18:34, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
- Hello! All these pages are created by
Sander.v.Ginkel and I know he/she creates pages for all volleyball players, who played in any FIVB or CEV tournaments... I wrote to him/her, but he/she thinks she/he do it right but it is not truth - ALL pages of volleyball players created by
Sander.v.Ginkel has only information from the link of FIVB or CEV tournament even from few previous years and the informations are not right or complete. Please, someone should do intervention and stop
Sander.v.Ginkel. -
DariaPolonia (
talk) 19:18, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. /wiae /tlk 20:01, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Iran-related deletion discussions. /wiae /tlk 20:01, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
- Keep Iran is 8th power volleyball in world, All players are prominent in Iran's Premier League.All players are members Iranian Volleyball Super League teams, this league is best League in Asia. and some players are member of Iran men's national volleyball team in a prestigious event.-- Samək Talk 21:45, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
- Keep There are many players nominated, and I have several reasons to keep them.
- 1) Tomcat313 your reason for nominating is sports person isn't notable according to notability policy for volleyball players, but there isn't a policy for volleyball players. Sander.v.Ginkel ( Talk) 09:25, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
- 2) Volleball is one of the biggest sports in the world (see for instance here and here). When we take a look at the notability guideliness on WP WP:SPORTS, we see that for the popular sports the players who compete in the highest world competitions are notable. Even for the less popular sport lie cycling all UCI riders are notable competing in the UCI Women's World Tour, the same for all men's riders in the UCI World Tour and all track cyclists at the UCI Track Cycling World Cup. For volleyball the highest annual competition is the FIVB Volleyball World League. For that reason all the players who have played in the world league have been created. Many of the above nominated players are these players. Sander.v.Ginkel ( Talk) 09:25, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
- 3) As also mentioned by Samak Iran is a big volleyball country with a prominent national league. The national team qualified and competed in all the last World Championships, World Cups, World Leagues, Grand Champions Cup and won medal in the last Asian Cup, Asian Games and Asian Championships. These two reasons means that if you're part of the Iranian national team and have competed at international competitions, you have to be a really good player, meeting notability. Sander.v.Ginkel ( Talk) 09:25, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
- 4) There are 1000nds of volleyball clubs worldwide. Only 6 teams takes part at the FIVB Volleyball Club World Championship. For that reason all the players who have played in the Club World Championships have been created. Many of the above nominated players are these players. Sander.v.Ginkel ( Talk) 09:25, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
- 5) Above nominated players won (gold) medals at international volleyball competitions. Sander.v.Ginkel ( Talk) 09:54, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
- Note I just looked and expanded two articles
Vali Nourmohammadi and
Rasoul Najafi to show these are obvious notable players. (Don't have time to expand them all)
Sander.v.Ginkel (
Talk) 10:20, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
- 1. Dear Sander.v.Ginkel; Yes volleyball doesnt have a concluded notability discussion but there are some talks on volleyball project page that some users support, I hope they come here and express their opinion.
- 2. you think any player who have competed in world league should be considered as notable. I dont want to discuss it here, but players
Rasoul Najafi and
Reza Abedini didn't even played there and only their name is on the expanded list. being on the 25 names list of world league doesn't mean they've played there because for every match 14 players are chosen.
- Reply, It would be good to indicate at the team squads pages the players played or not. However, I don't were to find this information. At least they are part of the national team and so one of the best 25 players of Iran. I think for Iran this meets already notability. Also, for others sports (is this also for volleyball?), players who didn't play also receives a medal if the team wins a medal.
- It is the same as for instance with cycling. All cyclists at the List of 2015 UCI Women's Teams and riders are notable, altough they didn't all competed at the 2015 UCI Road World Championships or 2015 UCI Women's Road World Cup. Sander.v.Ginkel ( Talk) 13:01, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
- 3. I admit that I didn't make a good classification for this process.
Rasoul Najafi and
Reza Abedini dont have any national team appearance.
- Reply Jajafi played at the Universiade for the national team (
see here). According to the FIVB website Jajafi represented Iran 6x
see here (yes I know, the 2 Worlds are the U23 champs). How do you know they didn't play in the World League?
Sander.v.Ginkel (
Talk) 13:01, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
- Reply Because Ive watched the matches! But if we want to prove this we should look at all the reports of the matches of world league (like this: http://www.fivb.org/vis_web/volley/WL2015-1/WL2015-1_p2-005.pdf) to find out who really played from those 25 people.(by played I mean be present there, even on the bench. But they wont give world league medal to all 25 people, they give it to 14 people) Tomcat313 ( talk) 18:58, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
- Reply Jajafi played at the Universiade for the national team (
see here). According to the FIVB website Jajafi represented Iran 6x
see here (yes I know, the 2 Worlds are the U23 champs). How do you know they didn't play in the World League?
Sander.v.Ginkel (
Talk) 13:01, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
-
Mojtaba Shaban,
Hamed Rezaei,
Vahid Seyed-Abbasi and
Iraj Mikaeilzadeh (which are created by
User:Samak and
User:Princeofpersia1) didnt even have their names in a national team expanded list. They must definitely be deleted because they've only played in domestic league.
- Reply What is the national team expanded list? Can you show where I can find it. I saw that a few of them were invited to play for the national team. It also looks like the articles have enough secondary sources. Sander.v.Ginkel ( Talk) 13:01, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
- Others only played in club world championship, we can discuss it in the volleyball wiki project and wait until reaching an agreement. If current process wont be successful, then I will bundle these pages in 3 groups and again start deletion process.
- 4. If we look at basic criteria of notability: "person is presumed to be notable if he or she has been the subject of multiple published[2] non-trivial[3] secondary sources which are reliable, intellectually independent,[4] and independent of the subject."
- I think that having somebody's name only in one page of fivb site that doesn't have any special information doesn't have some of these conditions. (it is not multiple, non-trivial and secondary).
- Reply I created the players with help of the FIVB information because I think that the players reaches notability on the bases of his performance. Most of the secondary sources of these players are in Farsi and I can't use them. Sander.v.Ginkel ( Talk) 13:01, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
- 5. Your expantions contains wrong and without source information.
Rasoul Najafi wasn't on matin's roster in 2014 asian club as this source says:
http://iranvolleyball.com/Content/Content.aspx?PageCode=30925 , and wasn't in avc cup 2012 as this source says:
http://www.iranvolleyball.com/Sport/Tournament.aspx?TournamentID=22. almost all the pages you've created have wrong or outdated information. Thanks.
Tomcat313 (
talk) 10:45, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
- Reply I can't read Farsi, so I'm not able to use these sources :(.. This source says he was part of Pool B of the Asians Club Championship: here. But I changed it in the article as you say it is not sure. Sander.v.Ginkel ( Talk) 13:01, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
- Note: Duplicate !votes struck. — JJMC89 ( T· C) 10:55, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
- Here some individual notability reasons:
Sander.v.Ginkel (
Talk) 12:36, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
- Reza Ghara - played in the 2014 World League
- Mojtaba Shaban - Added secondary source from news article ( [1]). He is U19 World Champion 2007 (in most sports the a junior world champions are notable)
- Ali Sajjadi - won with the national team gold at the 2013 Islamic Solidarity Games
- Nasser Rahimi - Added secondary sources. He competed with the national team in international competitions (2012 Men Volleyball Asia Cup, 2013 FIVB Volleyball World League(?) and 2013 FIVB Volleyball Men's World Grand Champions Cup)
- Alireza Nasr Esfahani - Won with his club the gold medal at the 2014 Asian Men's Club Volleyball Championship. Also 2010 Asian youth champion and 2015 Asian U23 champion
- Vali Nourmohammadi - won gold with the national team at the Asian Senior Men's Volleyball Championship (Central Zone)
- Behzad Heidarishahi - Secondary sources 1, 2)
- Saeid Shiroud - Added secndary sources. Besides of that he competed at several international competitions for the national team and best outside spiker of the 2014 Asian Men's Cup Volleyball Championship. Gold medal at 2008 Asian Youth Boys Volleyball Championship.
- Alireza Jadidi - With the national team he won the silver medal at the 2012 Asian Men's Cup Volleyball Championship and was the best blocker of the championship.
- Parviz Pezeshki - Added secondary sources ( [2] [3])
- Here some individual notability reasons:
Sander.v.Ginkel (
Talk) 12:36, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
- Dear
User:Sander.v.Ginkel; I really appreciate and thank your hard work and effort to improve these pages; but our main difference is in point of view to consider people notable or not. I'm not saying
Parviz Pezeshki and others didn't attend tournaments you are mentioning and I can find tens of interviews with them and articles about them in Persian sites (this doesn't mean they are notable internationally, and even in Iran, volleyball followers mainly don't know players out of main national team roster). But I and some other users on volleyball project generally support something like this:
/info/en/?search=User:Osplace/Volleyball_notability in volleyball for notability. So I think it is better to start a discussion on volleyball project page about notability and try to conclude it this time. Then we can easier decide which page we keep and which we delete.
Tomcat313 (
talk) 18:58, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
- Deat Tomcat313, thanks for your kind reply. The notabiility guideliness you're mentionong will be players who will be kept without secondary sources on the basis of 1 performance (so for instance Vali Nourmohammadi and Alireza Nasr Esfahani). But this does not say that this are the only notable volleyball players! All volleyball players with secondary sources are notable, see guideliness. So including the players I summed above. To have a WP page you can be notable within a country without being notable international. Where did you see that a person has to be international notable? Sander.v.Ginkel ( Talk) 19:49, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
- Dear
User:Sander.v.Ginkel; I really appreciate and thank your hard work and effort to improve these pages; but our main difference is in point of view to consider people notable or not. I'm not saying
Parviz Pezeshki and others didn't attend tournaments you are mentioning and I can find tens of interviews with them and articles about them in Persian sites (this doesn't mean they are notable internationally, and even in Iran, volleyball followers mainly don't know players out of main national team roster). But I and some other users on volleyball project generally support something like this:
/info/en/?search=User:Osplace/Volleyball_notability in volleyball for notability. So I think it is better to start a discussion on volleyball project page about notability and try to conclude it this time. Then we can easier decide which page we keep and which we delete.
Tomcat313 (
talk) 18:58, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Onel5969 TT me 12:55, 22 March 2016 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Onel5969 TT me 12:55, 22 March 2016 (UTC)
- Delete all - based upon current guidelines, these players do not pass notability criteria, either WP:GNG or WP:NATHLETE. Onel5969 TT me 16:51, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
- * Reply to Onel5969 can you please expand your opinion, as several of the articles have been expanded with good secondary sources. Others are notable due to winning medals at notable International competitons. And my third point, as also stated above, volleyball doesn't have notabiility guideliness, so what do you mean with WP:NATHLETE?... Sander.v.Ginkel ( Talk) 23:31, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
- Advice for administrators: close this one with not reached consensus, what is the case with only a few contributors. The nominator Tomcat313 can than nominate the players separately or in groups again as he indicated himself above.The above nominated players are completely different, and should be discussed with separate discussions. I think with a better categorization, a better discussion will be reached. Sander.v.Ginkel ( Talk) 13:52, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
- Keep and expand. The Article has References, but it does need to be expanded significantly. The Mysterious El Willstro ( talk) 05:16, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. We had informative discussion which shows that some of the nominated players may be notable while others may be no notable. I therefore close this as no consensus so that non-notable players could be renominated for deletion individually. Whoever wants to remonimate them, I recommend reading this discussion carefully, so that we do not waste our time for players which are clearly notable.-- Ymblanter ( talk) 07:13, 5 April 2016 (UTC)
Rasoul Najafi
- Rasoul Najafi ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
sports person isn't notable according to notability policy for volleyball players Tomcat313 ( talk) 17:44, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
I am also nominating the following related pages for the same reason: Tomcat313 ( talk) 18:03, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
- Vali Alipour ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Reza Abedini (volleyball) ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Vali Nourmohammadi ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Alireza Nasr Esfahani ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Saber Narimannejad ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Parviz Pezeshki ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Nasser Rahimi ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Ali Asghar Razmfar ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Hamed Rezaei ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Bahram Farid ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Ali Sajjadi ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Vahid Seyed-Abbasi ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Mojtaba Shaban ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Alireza Jadidi ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Saeid Shiroud ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Iraj Mikaeilzadeh ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Reza Ghara ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Behzad Heidarishahi ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Mikaeil Tajer ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Hello! All these pages are created by
Sander.v.Ginkel and I know he/she creates pages for all volleyball players, who played in any FIVB or CEV tournaments... I wrote to him/her, but he/she thinks she/he do it right but it is not truth - ALL pages of volleyball players created by
Sander.v.Ginkel has only information from the link of FIVB or CEV tournament even from few previous years and the informations are not right or complete. Please, someone should do intervention and stop
Sander.v.Ginkel. -
DariaPolonia (
talk) 19:18, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
- the problem here is even more,most of people who Ive nominated hadn't played any FIVB tournament even on the bench, but because their name is on the expanded list (e.g. world league 25 names list), this user has created their page.
Tomcat313 (
talk) 18:34, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
- DariaPolonia, just for the record, these pages are not all created by me. I created the pages of above nominated volleyball players who competed (for the national team) in the highest FIVB volleyball competitions. Sander.v.Ginkel ( Talk) 09:25, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
- the problem here is even more,most of people who Ive nominated hadn't played any FIVB tournament even on the bench, but because their name is on the expanded list (e.g. world league 25 names list), this user has created their page.
Tomcat313 (
talk) 18:34, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
- Hello! All these pages are created by
Sander.v.Ginkel and I know he/she creates pages for all volleyball players, who played in any FIVB or CEV tournaments... I wrote to him/her, but he/she thinks she/he do it right but it is not truth - ALL pages of volleyball players created by
Sander.v.Ginkel has only information from the link of FIVB or CEV tournament even from few previous years and the informations are not right or complete. Please, someone should do intervention and stop
Sander.v.Ginkel. -
DariaPolonia (
talk) 19:18, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. /wiae /tlk 20:01, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Iran-related deletion discussions. /wiae /tlk 20:01, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
- Keep Iran is 8th power volleyball in world, All players are prominent in Iran's Premier League.All players are members Iranian Volleyball Super League teams, this league is best League in Asia. and some players are member of Iran men's national volleyball team in a prestigious event.-- Samək Talk 21:45, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
- Keep There are many players nominated, and I have several reasons to keep them.
- 1) Tomcat313 your reason for nominating is sports person isn't notable according to notability policy for volleyball players, but there isn't a policy for volleyball players. Sander.v.Ginkel ( Talk) 09:25, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
- 2) Volleball is one of the biggest sports in the world (see for instance here and here). When we take a look at the notability guideliness on WP WP:SPORTS, we see that for the popular sports the players who compete in the highest world competitions are notable. Even for the less popular sport lie cycling all UCI riders are notable competing in the UCI Women's World Tour, the same for all men's riders in the UCI World Tour and all track cyclists at the UCI Track Cycling World Cup. For volleyball the highest annual competition is the FIVB Volleyball World League. For that reason all the players who have played in the world league have been created. Many of the above nominated players are these players. Sander.v.Ginkel ( Talk) 09:25, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
- 3) As also mentioned by Samak Iran is a big volleyball country with a prominent national league. The national team qualified and competed in all the last World Championships, World Cups, World Leagues, Grand Champions Cup and won medal in the last Asian Cup, Asian Games and Asian Championships. These two reasons means that if you're part of the Iranian national team and have competed at international competitions, you have to be a really good player, meeting notability. Sander.v.Ginkel ( Talk) 09:25, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
- 4) There are 1000nds of volleyball clubs worldwide. Only 6 teams takes part at the FIVB Volleyball Club World Championship. For that reason all the players who have played in the Club World Championships have been created. Many of the above nominated players are these players. Sander.v.Ginkel ( Talk) 09:25, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
- 5) Above nominated players won (gold) medals at international volleyball competitions. Sander.v.Ginkel ( Talk) 09:54, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
- Note I just looked and expanded two articles
Vali Nourmohammadi and
Rasoul Najafi to show these are obvious notable players. (Don't have time to expand them all)
Sander.v.Ginkel (
Talk) 10:20, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
- 1. Dear Sander.v.Ginkel; Yes volleyball doesnt have a concluded notability discussion but there are some talks on volleyball project page that some users support, I hope they come here and express their opinion.
- 2. you think any player who have competed in world league should be considered as notable. I dont want to discuss it here, but players
Rasoul Najafi and
Reza Abedini didn't even played there and only their name is on the expanded list. being on the 25 names list of world league doesn't mean they've played there because for every match 14 players are chosen.
- Reply, It would be good to indicate at the team squads pages the players played or not. However, I don't were to find this information. At least they are part of the national team and so one of the best 25 players of Iran. I think for Iran this meets already notability. Also, for others sports (is this also for volleyball?), players who didn't play also receives a medal if the team wins a medal.
- It is the same as for instance with cycling. All cyclists at the List of 2015 UCI Women's Teams and riders are notable, altough they didn't all competed at the 2015 UCI Road World Championships or 2015 UCI Women's Road World Cup. Sander.v.Ginkel ( Talk) 13:01, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
- 3. I admit that I didn't make a good classification for this process.
Rasoul Najafi and
Reza Abedini dont have any national team appearance.
- Reply Jajafi played at the Universiade for the national team (
see here). According to the FIVB website Jajafi represented Iran 6x
see here (yes I know, the 2 Worlds are the U23 champs). How do you know they didn't play in the World League?
Sander.v.Ginkel (
Talk) 13:01, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
- Reply Because Ive watched the matches! But if we want to prove this we should look at all the reports of the matches of world league (like this: http://www.fivb.org/vis_web/volley/WL2015-1/WL2015-1_p2-005.pdf) to find out who really played from those 25 people.(by played I mean be present there, even on the bench. But they wont give world league medal to all 25 people, they give it to 14 people) Tomcat313 ( talk) 18:58, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
- Reply Jajafi played at the Universiade for the national team (
see here). According to the FIVB website Jajafi represented Iran 6x
see here (yes I know, the 2 Worlds are the U23 champs). How do you know they didn't play in the World League?
Sander.v.Ginkel (
Talk) 13:01, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
-
Mojtaba Shaban,
Hamed Rezaei,
Vahid Seyed-Abbasi and
Iraj Mikaeilzadeh (which are created by
User:Samak and
User:Princeofpersia1) didnt even have their names in a national team expanded list. They must definitely be deleted because they've only played in domestic league.
- Reply What is the national team expanded list? Can you show where I can find it. I saw that a few of them were invited to play for the national team. It also looks like the articles have enough secondary sources. Sander.v.Ginkel ( Talk) 13:01, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
- Others only played in club world championship, we can discuss it in the volleyball wiki project and wait until reaching an agreement. If current process wont be successful, then I will bundle these pages in 3 groups and again start deletion process.
- 4. If we look at basic criteria of notability: "person is presumed to be notable if he or she has been the subject of multiple published[2] non-trivial[3] secondary sources which are reliable, intellectually independent,[4] and independent of the subject."
- I think that having somebody's name only in one page of fivb site that doesn't have any special information doesn't have some of these conditions. (it is not multiple, non-trivial and secondary).
- Reply I created the players with help of the FIVB information because I think that the players reaches notability on the bases of his performance. Most of the secondary sources of these players are in Farsi and I can't use them. Sander.v.Ginkel ( Talk) 13:01, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
- 5. Your expantions contains wrong and without source information.
Rasoul Najafi wasn't on matin's roster in 2014 asian club as this source says:
http://iranvolleyball.com/Content/Content.aspx?PageCode=30925 , and wasn't in avc cup 2012 as this source says:
http://www.iranvolleyball.com/Sport/Tournament.aspx?TournamentID=22. almost all the pages you've created have wrong or outdated information. Thanks.
Tomcat313 (
talk) 10:45, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
- Reply I can't read Farsi, so I'm not able to use these sources :(.. This source says he was part of Pool B of the Asians Club Championship: here. But I changed it in the article as you say it is not sure. Sander.v.Ginkel ( Talk) 13:01, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
- Note: Duplicate !votes struck. — JJMC89 ( T· C) 10:55, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
- Here some individual notability reasons:
Sander.v.Ginkel (
Talk) 12:36, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
- Reza Ghara - played in the 2014 World League
- Mojtaba Shaban - Added secondary source from news article ( [1]). He is U19 World Champion 2007 (in most sports the a junior world champions are notable)
- Ali Sajjadi - won with the national team gold at the 2013 Islamic Solidarity Games
- Nasser Rahimi - Added secondary sources. He competed with the national team in international competitions (2012 Men Volleyball Asia Cup, 2013 FIVB Volleyball World League(?) and 2013 FIVB Volleyball Men's World Grand Champions Cup)
- Alireza Nasr Esfahani - Won with his club the gold medal at the 2014 Asian Men's Club Volleyball Championship. Also 2010 Asian youth champion and 2015 Asian U23 champion
- Vali Nourmohammadi - won gold with the national team at the Asian Senior Men's Volleyball Championship (Central Zone)
- Behzad Heidarishahi - Secondary sources 1, 2)
- Saeid Shiroud - Added secndary sources. Besides of that he competed at several international competitions for the national team and best outside spiker of the 2014 Asian Men's Cup Volleyball Championship. Gold medal at 2008 Asian Youth Boys Volleyball Championship.
- Alireza Jadidi - With the national team he won the silver medal at the 2012 Asian Men's Cup Volleyball Championship and was the best blocker of the championship.
- Parviz Pezeshki - Added secondary sources ( [2] [3])
- Here some individual notability reasons:
Sander.v.Ginkel (
Talk) 12:36, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
- Dear
User:Sander.v.Ginkel; I really appreciate and thank your hard work and effort to improve these pages; but our main difference is in point of view to consider people notable or not. I'm not saying
Parviz Pezeshki and others didn't attend tournaments you are mentioning and I can find tens of interviews with them and articles about them in Persian sites (this doesn't mean they are notable internationally, and even in Iran, volleyball followers mainly don't know players out of main national team roster). But I and some other users on volleyball project generally support something like this:
/info/en/?search=User:Osplace/Volleyball_notability in volleyball for notability. So I think it is better to start a discussion on volleyball project page about notability and try to conclude it this time. Then we can easier decide which page we keep and which we delete.
Tomcat313 (
talk) 18:58, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
- Deat Tomcat313, thanks for your kind reply. The notabiility guideliness you're mentionong will be players who will be kept without secondary sources on the basis of 1 performance (so for instance Vali Nourmohammadi and Alireza Nasr Esfahani). But this does not say that this are the only notable volleyball players! All volleyball players with secondary sources are notable, see guideliness. So including the players I summed above. To have a WP page you can be notable within a country without being notable international. Where did you see that a person has to be international notable? Sander.v.Ginkel ( Talk) 19:49, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
- Dear
User:Sander.v.Ginkel; I really appreciate and thank your hard work and effort to improve these pages; but our main difference is in point of view to consider people notable or not. I'm not saying
Parviz Pezeshki and others didn't attend tournaments you are mentioning and I can find tens of interviews with them and articles about them in Persian sites (this doesn't mean they are notable internationally, and even in Iran, volleyball followers mainly don't know players out of main national team roster). But I and some other users on volleyball project generally support something like this:
/info/en/?search=User:Osplace/Volleyball_notability in volleyball for notability. So I think it is better to start a discussion on volleyball project page about notability and try to conclude it this time. Then we can easier decide which page we keep and which we delete.
Tomcat313 (
talk) 18:58, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Onel5969 TT me 12:55, 22 March 2016 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Onel5969 TT me 12:55, 22 March 2016 (UTC)
- Delete all - based upon current guidelines, these players do not pass notability criteria, either WP:GNG or WP:NATHLETE. Onel5969 TT me 16:51, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
- * Reply to Onel5969 can you please expand your opinion, as several of the articles have been expanded with good secondary sources. Others are notable due to winning medals at notable International competitons. And my third point, as also stated above, volleyball doesn't have notabiility guideliness, so what do you mean with WP:NATHLETE?... Sander.v.Ginkel ( Talk) 23:31, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
- Advice for administrators: close this one with not reached consensus, what is the case with only a few contributors. The nominator Tomcat313 can than nominate the players separately or in groups again as he indicated himself above.The above nominated players are completely different, and should be discussed with separate discussions. I think with a better categorization, a better discussion will be reached. Sander.v.Ginkel ( Talk) 13:52, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
- Keep and expand. The Article has References, but it does need to be expanded significantly. The Mysterious El Willstro ( talk) 05:16, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.