The result was keep. ( non-admin closure) Arun Kumar SINGH (Talk) 12:39, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
Copied from OTRS 2016101810014724 - Raj Barr-Kumar is not a prominent American architect, or architect of note by any standard accepted measure. The voluminous curriculum vitae of awards, education and registrations are not proof of any meaningful merit, as any self-promoting architect could duplicate it. The entry is authored by someone who most likely is connected via family, pupil or being paid. All of Barr's books are vanity press , and no more than required texts that all professors publish to sell to their students. Barr, had no tenure at American University where he taught for a few years. Barr lists well known buildings as projects deceitfully, never any detail to the extent of project. Listing Embassies, Hotels and various buildings of note regardless his part (if any) and never any sources verifying what extent. One project listed on his company page, "National Cathedral", was at best a collaboration with another architect on bringing restrooms up to ADA code. That in itself is suspect that Barr had any meaningful input, but very disingenuous in promotion regardless. There are few to any actual photos "of great accomplishments" actually built, but rather his portfolio is strewn with conceptual drawings. One project noted "Altos Escondidos" was a purchase of land by his brother the principal, in Panama in about year 2007, and has yet to even show any proof of breaking ground or sales, with investors losing 100% of their capital. The project has been alleged a fraud by investors goo.gl/6eL8Np Past president of AIA, garners no illustrious recognition as this is only an organization architects pay to join (to use as promotion), not unlike the AMA for physicians. The AIA, replaces it President yearly and one only needs to research past Presidents to note that position does not make one noteworthy as an architect at all. Barr's office address is and always has been a mail drop, and shared office space type of arrangement. One only needs to verify that searching his business address and noting the multitude of businesses seeking office presence in Washington DC, using the identical address. There are no employees, engineers or architects at that address, and it is very unlikely Barr has ever had a payroll. The entry is pure fiction as to relevance of any noteworthiness, and is purely a vanity page , SURELY ORCHISTRATED BY BARR HIMSELF. Anyone in support is probably a student seeking a quid pro quo. The author needs to be vetted as badly as Barr. One only has to note the CV's of well accepted prominent American architects, probably all which would be one quarter the length as Barr likes to publish. His standing of fame in Sri Lanka, doubt that as well. Ronhjones (Talk) 00:46, 25 October 2016 (UTC)
1.) Fellow of the American Institute of Architects
2.) Former president of the American Institute of Architects and first person of non-European origin to hold that post in the organization's 140 year history
3.) Possibly the best know American architect of Sri Lankan decent
4.) 30 year history as a collegiate educator with a number of published works
5.) Noteworthiness as architect of record on a large number of projects in the US and internationally (I was still in the process of building the section of completed works when the article was nominated.)
As I have continued to research the individual I have come to learn that many of Barr's contributions to the practice of architecture and to the industry are philosophical and ideological rather than actually buildings. As such I added the "Advocate and volunteer" section as I continued to develop the article. Like most people, I am a volunteer editor and have never been paid for my contributions to Wikipedia. As such, I edit when I have the time. The "Works" section is the last thing I have to revise before I'd consider the article substantially complete (I've made numerous corrections and added various clarifications since the last debate, but the final overhaul is still to come). My plan is to eliminate the chart in favor of a list style format that will include a chronological listing of significant projects, and will detail specific contributions and include project partners when appropriate.
Finally, I'd like to say that there has been no attempt at subterfuge on my part. All information has been researched and referenced appropriately. I don't know anything about Barr's office situation, so I can't comment on that, but I'm also not sure what relevance that has here. While I have contributed to Wikipedia for many years, this is my first comprehensive biographical entry on Wikipedia, and I welcome discussion via the article's talk page with regards to any information which is deemed superfluous or inappropriate for inclusion per Wikipedia guidelines on biographies of living persons. Best, Bmhs823 ( talk) 03:13, 25 October 2016 (UTC)
Other than that most of the new challenges seem like the same old attacks on the article subject despite prior consensus that the article passes WP:GNG. Getting tired of giving my time to Wikipedia to have it wasted by the "delete it" crew. Bmhs823 ( talk) 01:55, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
I know the person that opened it. We concur with Tiptoethrutheminefield who took the time for accepted analysis. We only wish others in Wiki who understand due diligence in research, if not architecture itself will endorse deletion. Otherwise, it makes a mockery of "Notable Architects" Why not list under World renown, we can submit several examples where the subject claims that as well. This is the point, you are not going to find any neutral esteemed architect to concur any remarkable notoriety. We still question tie of author to subject, with no answer. This is honestly not an architect anyone "neutral" interested in the field would stumble upon, let alone promote. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.205.6.5 ( talk) 15:02, 28 October 2016 (UTC)
Do you have any source out there that says that the person is as controversial as you have described?No, I'm not going to help you because as far as I am concerned, the sources that have shown this person meets WP:GNG and WP:NPERSON. His membership and other achievements as listed in the article sources means he is notable for inclusion as far as notability guidelines go. 2) Canvassing or deliberately asking others to join in Wikipedia discussions to support your side of the story, whether on or outside of Wikipedia, is heavily frowned upon. Would you like to confirm that you have not approached "the person" directly to ask him to submit this nomination, or otherwise asked for his involvement in this discussion? Optakeover (U) (T) (C) 10:00, 29 October 2016 (UTC)
Can not find any large project noted on company web site, that was not actually designed, engineered by other than fortune 500 firms or equivalent. No third party acknowledgements of any notable completed projects. Author notes "Architect of Record" of many projects. Can those please be verified and listed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.26.99.248 ( talk) 14:19, 29 October 2016 (UTC)
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The result was keep. ( non-admin closure) Arun Kumar SINGH (Talk) 12:39, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
Copied from OTRS 2016101810014724 - Raj Barr-Kumar is not a prominent American architect, or architect of note by any standard accepted measure. The voluminous curriculum vitae of awards, education and registrations are not proof of any meaningful merit, as any self-promoting architect could duplicate it. The entry is authored by someone who most likely is connected via family, pupil or being paid. All of Barr's books are vanity press , and no more than required texts that all professors publish to sell to their students. Barr, had no tenure at American University where he taught for a few years. Barr lists well known buildings as projects deceitfully, never any detail to the extent of project. Listing Embassies, Hotels and various buildings of note regardless his part (if any) and never any sources verifying what extent. One project listed on his company page, "National Cathedral", was at best a collaboration with another architect on bringing restrooms up to ADA code. That in itself is suspect that Barr had any meaningful input, but very disingenuous in promotion regardless. There are few to any actual photos "of great accomplishments" actually built, but rather his portfolio is strewn with conceptual drawings. One project noted "Altos Escondidos" was a purchase of land by his brother the principal, in Panama in about year 2007, and has yet to even show any proof of breaking ground or sales, with investors losing 100% of their capital. The project has been alleged a fraud by investors goo.gl/6eL8Np Past president of AIA, garners no illustrious recognition as this is only an organization architects pay to join (to use as promotion), not unlike the AMA for physicians. The AIA, replaces it President yearly and one only needs to research past Presidents to note that position does not make one noteworthy as an architect at all. Barr's office address is and always has been a mail drop, and shared office space type of arrangement. One only needs to verify that searching his business address and noting the multitude of businesses seeking office presence in Washington DC, using the identical address. There are no employees, engineers or architects at that address, and it is very unlikely Barr has ever had a payroll. The entry is pure fiction as to relevance of any noteworthiness, and is purely a vanity page , SURELY ORCHISTRATED BY BARR HIMSELF. Anyone in support is probably a student seeking a quid pro quo. The author needs to be vetted as badly as Barr. One only has to note the CV's of well accepted prominent American architects, probably all which would be one quarter the length as Barr likes to publish. His standing of fame in Sri Lanka, doubt that as well. Ronhjones (Talk) 00:46, 25 October 2016 (UTC)
1.) Fellow of the American Institute of Architects
2.) Former president of the American Institute of Architects and first person of non-European origin to hold that post in the organization's 140 year history
3.) Possibly the best know American architect of Sri Lankan decent
4.) 30 year history as a collegiate educator with a number of published works
5.) Noteworthiness as architect of record on a large number of projects in the US and internationally (I was still in the process of building the section of completed works when the article was nominated.)
As I have continued to research the individual I have come to learn that many of Barr's contributions to the practice of architecture and to the industry are philosophical and ideological rather than actually buildings. As such I added the "Advocate and volunteer" section as I continued to develop the article. Like most people, I am a volunteer editor and have never been paid for my contributions to Wikipedia. As such, I edit when I have the time. The "Works" section is the last thing I have to revise before I'd consider the article substantially complete (I've made numerous corrections and added various clarifications since the last debate, but the final overhaul is still to come). My plan is to eliminate the chart in favor of a list style format that will include a chronological listing of significant projects, and will detail specific contributions and include project partners when appropriate.
Finally, I'd like to say that there has been no attempt at subterfuge on my part. All information has been researched and referenced appropriately. I don't know anything about Barr's office situation, so I can't comment on that, but I'm also not sure what relevance that has here. While I have contributed to Wikipedia for many years, this is my first comprehensive biographical entry on Wikipedia, and I welcome discussion via the article's talk page with regards to any information which is deemed superfluous or inappropriate for inclusion per Wikipedia guidelines on biographies of living persons. Best, Bmhs823 ( talk) 03:13, 25 October 2016 (UTC)
Other than that most of the new challenges seem like the same old attacks on the article subject despite prior consensus that the article passes WP:GNG. Getting tired of giving my time to Wikipedia to have it wasted by the "delete it" crew. Bmhs823 ( talk) 01:55, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
I know the person that opened it. We concur with Tiptoethrutheminefield who took the time for accepted analysis. We only wish others in Wiki who understand due diligence in research, if not architecture itself will endorse deletion. Otherwise, it makes a mockery of "Notable Architects" Why not list under World renown, we can submit several examples where the subject claims that as well. This is the point, you are not going to find any neutral esteemed architect to concur any remarkable notoriety. We still question tie of author to subject, with no answer. This is honestly not an architect anyone "neutral" interested in the field would stumble upon, let alone promote. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.205.6.5 ( talk) 15:02, 28 October 2016 (UTC)
Do you have any source out there that says that the person is as controversial as you have described?No, I'm not going to help you because as far as I am concerned, the sources that have shown this person meets WP:GNG and WP:NPERSON. His membership and other achievements as listed in the article sources means he is notable for inclusion as far as notability guidelines go. 2) Canvassing or deliberately asking others to join in Wikipedia discussions to support your side of the story, whether on or outside of Wikipedia, is heavily frowned upon. Would you like to confirm that you have not approached "the person" directly to ask him to submit this nomination, or otherwise asked for his involvement in this discussion? Optakeover (U) (T) (C) 10:00, 29 October 2016 (UTC)
Can not find any large project noted on company web site, that was not actually designed, engineered by other than fortune 500 firms or equivalent. No third party acknowledgements of any notable completed projects. Author notes "Architect of Record" of many projects. Can those please be verified and listed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.26.99.248 ( talk) 14:19, 29 October 2016 (UTC)
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