- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Sandstein 23:07, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
Rafael Casal
- Rafael Casal ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
No substantive claim to notability: associated with one group that has no article and a minor indie film (potential redirect target?). Created and edited almost entirely by WP:SPAs, increasingly obviously associated with the subject, the last one being entirely open about this and edit-warring over content he does not like (which may well be entirely justified). Sources are either not independent, or not reliable, most are just churnalism. I tried to find anything matching the Wikipedia sourcing trifecta of "reliable, independent, secondary", but washed out (maybe my Google-fu is weak today), but in the end this looks like a PR biography that is more trouble than it's worth. Guy ( Help!) 14:25, 17 February 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. L3X1 ◊distænt write◊ 14:28, 17 February 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletion discussions. L3X1 ◊distænt write◊ 14:28, 17 February 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Artists-related deletion discussions. L3X1 ◊distænt write◊ 14:28, 17 February 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. L3X1 ◊distænt write◊ 14:28, 17 February 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Poetry-related deletion discussions. L3X1 ◊distænt write◊ 14:28, 17 February 2018 (UTC)
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- Weak keep. A lot of the coverage out there relates to the film ( [1], [2], [3], [4]), but co-writing and starring in a notable film is a reasonable claim to notability. Other coverage also exists: [5], [6], [7], [8]. Overall, possibly enough coverage of his body of work to justify inclusion. -- Michig ( talk) 16:08, 17 February 2018 (UTC)
- Delete - All bar one of the references are self-published. No third party claims to support notability. Feels like a personal fluff page, not an encyclopaedic article. If there is notability there it's incredibly minor, the fact some people mention you on the internet or you self-publish stuff does not notability make. Feel that it fails basic notability criteria.
Canterbury Tail
talk 23:08, 17 February 2018 (UTC)
- There are four independent sources mentioned right above your !vote. 104.163.148.25 ( talk) 20:13, 18 February 2018 (UTC)
- Weak keep If you read Michig's !vote above, specifically the last four sources mentioned, it's clear that there are are indeed numerous independent RS sources. They are not fabulous, but they do point to notability. 104.163.148.25 ( talk) 20:13, 18 February 2018 (UTC)
- They are not fabulous, and they are also not about the subject.
Guy (
Help!) 23:01, 18 February 2018 (UTC)
- I wonder why they keep mentioning the subject's name, with sentences about him following the name.
This Variety article seems to talk about him. Strange.
104.163.148.25 (
talk) 23:18, 18 February 2018 (UTC)
- To wit: "Casal’s videos caught the attention of Jess Calder (then Jess Wu). The young producer, partnered in Snoot with her husband, Keith Calder, had seen a couple of his spoken-word performances and was struck by both Casal’s charisma and the fact that he appeared to be a natural-born storyteller.
- I wonder why they keep mentioning the subject's name, with sentences about him following the name.
This Variety article seems to talk about him. Strange.
104.163.148.25 (
talk) 23:18, 18 February 2018 (UTC)
- They are not fabulous, and they are also not about the subject.
Guy (
Help!) 23:01, 18 February 2018 (UTC)
- “In my mind, anyone who can tell a great story can definitely translate that to film,” explains the producer, who contacted Casal and proposed they meet for coffee. She asked if he’d ever thought about writing a screenplay.
- “I’d thought about theater a lot, [but at that age] you’re trying to get $5 for something at McDonald’s. A movie is millions of dollars away,” says Casal. But he was definitely intrigued, and began fleshing out a character that was loosely autobiographical. Things started to click about a year and a half later, when the Snoot duo asked Casal to perform at a screening of their documentary “Thunder Soul” at a January 2009 presidential inauguration event in Washington, D.C. Casal couldn’t make it but suggested they book Diggs in his place." From the Variety article.
104.163.148.25 (
talk) 23:25, 18 February 2018 (UTC)
- It's an interview ( WP:PRIMARY) and it's about the film, not him. Guy ( Help!) 11:02, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
- Strong delete The sources here are all rubbish, and the presented additional sources just mention this person in passing at best. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 05:34, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spartaz Humbug! 00:24, 25 February 2018 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spartaz Humbug! 00:24, 25 February 2018 (UTC)
- Delete all current sources are self-published by the subject of the article; other sources relate to the particular independent film and not about the subject. Fails WP:GNG. SportingFlyer ( talk) 03:41, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
- delete I see non-independent sources and passing mentions, but nothing to convince me he meets WP:GNG or any other notability requirement. Sandals1 ( talk) 16:15, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
- Strong delete agreeing with above; poorly sourced and excessively self-aggrandizing; WP:PROMOTION WP:NTEMP WP:GNG — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:2000:7183:3900:1C60:C842:763D:C8E1 ( talk) 07:09, 27 February 2018 (UTC) — 2604:2000:7183:3900:1C60:C842:763D:C8E1 ( talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Sandstein 23:07, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
Rafael Casal
- Rafael Casal ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
No substantive claim to notability: associated with one group that has no article and a minor indie film (potential redirect target?). Created and edited almost entirely by WP:SPAs, increasingly obviously associated with the subject, the last one being entirely open about this and edit-warring over content he does not like (which may well be entirely justified). Sources are either not independent, or not reliable, most are just churnalism. I tried to find anything matching the Wikipedia sourcing trifecta of "reliable, independent, secondary", but washed out (maybe my Google-fu is weak today), but in the end this looks like a PR biography that is more trouble than it's worth. Guy ( Help!) 14:25, 17 February 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. L3X1 ◊distænt write◊ 14:28, 17 February 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletion discussions. L3X1 ◊distænt write◊ 14:28, 17 February 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Artists-related deletion discussions. L3X1 ◊distænt write◊ 14:28, 17 February 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. L3X1 ◊distænt write◊ 14:28, 17 February 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Poetry-related deletion discussions. L3X1 ◊distænt write◊ 14:28, 17 February 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. L3X1 ◊distænt write◊ 14:28, 17 February 2018 (UTC)
- Weak keep. A lot of the coverage out there relates to the film ( [1], [2], [3], [4]), but co-writing and starring in a notable film is a reasonable claim to notability. Other coverage also exists: [5], [6], [7], [8]. Overall, possibly enough coverage of his body of work to justify inclusion. -- Michig ( talk) 16:08, 17 February 2018 (UTC)
- Delete - All bar one of the references are self-published. No third party claims to support notability. Feels like a personal fluff page, not an encyclopaedic article. If there is notability there it's incredibly minor, the fact some people mention you on the internet or you self-publish stuff does not notability make. Feel that it fails basic notability criteria.
Canterbury Tail
talk 23:08, 17 February 2018 (UTC)
- There are four independent sources mentioned right above your !vote. 104.163.148.25 ( talk) 20:13, 18 February 2018 (UTC)
- Weak keep If you read Michig's !vote above, specifically the last four sources mentioned, it's clear that there are are indeed numerous independent RS sources. They are not fabulous, but they do point to notability. 104.163.148.25 ( talk) 20:13, 18 February 2018 (UTC)
- They are not fabulous, and they are also not about the subject.
Guy (
Help!) 23:01, 18 February 2018 (UTC)
- I wonder why they keep mentioning the subject's name, with sentences about him following the name.
This Variety article seems to talk about him. Strange.
104.163.148.25 (
talk) 23:18, 18 February 2018 (UTC)
- To wit: "Casal’s videos caught the attention of Jess Calder (then Jess Wu). The young producer, partnered in Snoot with her husband, Keith Calder, had seen a couple of his spoken-word performances and was struck by both Casal’s charisma and the fact that he appeared to be a natural-born storyteller.
- I wonder why they keep mentioning the subject's name, with sentences about him following the name.
This Variety article seems to talk about him. Strange.
104.163.148.25 (
talk) 23:18, 18 February 2018 (UTC)
- They are not fabulous, and they are also not about the subject.
Guy (
Help!) 23:01, 18 February 2018 (UTC)
- “In my mind, anyone who can tell a great story can definitely translate that to film,” explains the producer, who contacted Casal and proposed they meet for coffee. She asked if he’d ever thought about writing a screenplay.
- “I’d thought about theater a lot, [but at that age] you’re trying to get $5 for something at McDonald’s. A movie is millions of dollars away,” says Casal. But he was definitely intrigued, and began fleshing out a character that was loosely autobiographical. Things started to click about a year and a half later, when the Snoot duo asked Casal to perform at a screening of their documentary “Thunder Soul” at a January 2009 presidential inauguration event in Washington, D.C. Casal couldn’t make it but suggested they book Diggs in his place." From the Variety article.
104.163.148.25 (
talk) 23:25, 18 February 2018 (UTC)
- It's an interview ( WP:PRIMARY) and it's about the film, not him. Guy ( Help!) 11:02, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
- Strong delete The sources here are all rubbish, and the presented additional sources just mention this person in passing at best. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 05:34, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spartaz Humbug! 00:24, 25 February 2018 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spartaz Humbug! 00:24, 25 February 2018 (UTC)
- Delete all current sources are self-published by the subject of the article; other sources relate to the particular independent film and not about the subject. Fails WP:GNG. SportingFlyer ( talk) 03:41, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
- delete I see non-independent sources and passing mentions, but nothing to convince me he meets WP:GNG or any other notability requirement. Sandals1 ( talk) 16:15, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
- Strong delete agreeing with above; poorly sourced and excessively self-aggrandizing; WP:PROMOTION WP:NTEMP WP:GNG — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:2000:7183:3900:1C60:C842:763D:C8E1 ( talk) 07:09, 27 February 2018 (UTC) — 2604:2000:7183:3900:1C60:C842:763D:C8E1 ( talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.