- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was merge to Alberta Social Credit Party. Sandstein 20:43, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
Pro-Life Alberta Political Association
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- Pro-Life Alberta Political Association ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log)
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This is a fringe regional political party in Canada. All I can find in sources is WP:ROUTINE news coverage about generic election results and fundraising targets of Alberta political parties. Thus, I think this article fails WP:GNG and WP:ORGCRITE. - Indy beetle ( talk) 04:27, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
- What you call "regional" is Provincial, it is a Provincial Party, not National (unlike the USA that is dominantly 2 Party system; Canada and its provinces has a Westminster Model of Parliament with multiple Parties.
- If you're going to delete this page on the grounds that it covers ""...a fringe regional political party in Canada. All I can find in sources is WP:ROUTINE news coverage about generic election results and fundraising targets of Alberta political parties."" then delete the following Wikipedia Pages as well (also so-called fringe regional political parties : /info/en/?search=Communist_Party_%E2%80%93_Alberta /info/en/?search=Green_Party_of_Alberta : /info/en/?search=Independence_Party_of_Alberta : /info/en/?search=Reform_Party_of_Alberta_(2016%E2%80%93present) /info/en/?search=Alberta_Advantage_Party
Please see: "These "other stuff exists" arguments can be valid or invalid. When used correctly, these comparisons are important as the encyclopedia should be consistent in the content that it provides or excludes."— Preceding unsigned comment added by Raygamman ( talk • contribs)
DeleteNon-notable political organization who hasn't run a candidate in any election. Nate • ( chatter) 05:18, 25 May 2021 (UTC)- Merge as said below to Alberta Social Credit Party and fully oppose that article being renamed for this body as the ASCP has much more known history than this body which grabbed its history to try to gain undeserved WP:N it hasn't attained on its own. Nate • ( chatter) 19:44, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
- To quote User:Mrschimpf "Whenever possible, I listen to local editors. There is nothing worse than someone who knows their local community left to right somehow being overruled in their edit by someone 1,000 miles away who has never come close to being in that area and just believes whatever the press says about something, rather than confirming it with someone who knows the subject closely." They did actually. And they're notable as to have a dedicated pro-life party is a first in Alberta, indeed Canadian history.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Raygamman ( talk • contribs)
- https://daveberta.ca/tag/alberta-pro-life-political-association/
- https://www.apah.ca/papa-history
- https://kimsiever.ca/2021/04/24/alberta-ndp-raise-227-more-than-ucp-in-q1-2021/
-
https://www.elections.ab.ca/political-participants/parties/ — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Raygamman (
talk •
contribs)
- Comment Those three sources only tell us people donated money to parties, which is expected in a political system, and the APAH source comes down to 'we knew a lot about the ASCP...but these new people in power we still are trying to determine what they do'. That's not really a good source either. Nate • ( chatter) 21:43, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. Shellwood ( talk) 08:12, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politics-related deletion discussions. Shellwood ( talk) 08:12, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Alberta-related deletion discussions. Shellwood ( talk) 08:12, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
- Comment FWIW the https://www.apah.ca/papa-history article in particular doesn't even mention monies raised, even cover's the org's history: "It’s important to note that in recent history Alberta - and, in fact, Canada - have had relatively little representation of dedicated pro-life politicians holding either provincial or federal office... As a result, many pro-life activist groups have been feeling like their demands have gone unanswered and that their representatives weren't willing to listen to their priorities. Fraser capitalized on the feeling of disenfranchisement among pro-life people and welcomed them to a party that would support their philosophy. With the pro-life activists who came to the annual general meeting, Fraser was able to overthrow the remaining Socred executive and members to stack the party executive with pro-life activists and replace Skowronski as leader." To be fair, sites like the APAH publish only, or at least mostly, when there is an election. When there is you'll see increased coverage. That was written during the 2019 elxn. Raygamman ( talk) 23:51, 26 May 2021 (UTC)
- Hey,
Raygamman, I know you're frustrated and that it's upsetting to have a subject you think is notable at AfD, but generally a deletion discussion goes for several days, so please slow down. Please sign your posts (include four tildes at the end), as right now I'm having to follow you around and sign for you. Why don't you and I adjourn to your user talk and you can ask questions about why other editors think this party may not be notable and what we need to see to show that it is.
—valereee (
talk)
13:28, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! Am relatively new to editing on Wiki. Thanks for the explanation! Raygamman ( talk) 14:42, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
- Delete - Non-notable political org does not pass WP:GNG, WP:NCORP nor WP:ORGCRITE. - Netherzone ( talk) 13:37, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
- Merge into
Alberta Social Credit Party and rename that article to reflect party's new name, then update article to reflect party's change of name and platform. Party was notable under its previous name, that doesn't change just because the name changed and it's not getting sig cov currently.
—valereee (
talk)
13:58, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
- Comment Frankly a rename shouldn't be pursued; if another organization usurped a nearly century-old party just to grab their lists and lobbying power, then it should be a short part of the ASCP's article, not the basis to rename it.
Nate • (
chatter)
21:43, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
- I'm happy to do that and redirect PLAPA to it, if that's what happened. Do we have a source that says that's what happened? I had a source (sorry, didn't save it, didn't think there'd be this comment) that said it was just a rename. —valereee ( talk) 18:28, 27 May 2021 (UTC)
- Comment Frankly a rename shouldn't be pursued; if another organization usurped a nearly century-old party just to grab their lists and lobbying power, then it should be a short part of the ASCP's article, not the basis to rename it.
Nate • (
chatter)
21:43, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
- Merge or Delete'"' Non-notable and purely promotional. Nightenbelle ( talk) 17:36, 26 May 2021 (UTC)
Keep as isOne should not delete articles on topics you wish didn't exist for personal belief reasons – Wikipedia contains information on all topics, not just those which any person or group agrees with. Raygamman ( talk) 23:36, 26 May 2021 (UTC)- Additionally, this article is within the scope of WikiProject Canada, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Canada on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks; the article is supported by WikiProject Alberta; the article is supported by WikiProject Political parties and politicians in Canada. Surely all that counts for something.
Raygamman (
talk)
23:43, 26 May 2021 (UTC)
- Comment You have already de facto voted with your first statement in response to the nom, thus it has been struck. And I'm questioning why you're quoting the opening intros of
WP:INTROTODELETE,
WP:CANADA, and
WP:ALBERTA. Please stop just quoting things you find on pages (including mine) and find proper sources to indicate why this article should be kept.
Nate • (
chatter)
01:02, 27 May 2021 (UTC)
- Comment I quote you because of the irony I see between your words, and actions here. I quote the opening intro's of the WP:CANADA, and WP:ALBERTA because they're on the "Talk" page of the Prolife Alberta Poli. Assoc. wiki article. The Prolife Alberta article is supported by those projects and I figure that counts for something. If I'm posting things I shouldn't or you don't like, I don't know what to tell you. I'm rather new to wiki and seemingly rather unfamiliar with it's ways and wiles. Raygamman ( talk) 01:38, 27 May 2021 (UTC)
- Comment You have already de facto voted with your first statement in response to the nom, thus it has been struck. And I'm questioning why you're quoting the opening intros of
WP:INTROTODELETE,
WP:CANADA, and
WP:ALBERTA. Please stop just quoting things you find on pages (including mine) and find proper sources to indicate why this article should be kept.
Nate • (
chatter)
01:02, 27 May 2021 (UTC)
- Merge and rename re: Alberta Social Credit Party. Missvain ( talk) 00:59, 28 May 2021 (UTC)
- Merge and absolutely oppose rename. The Social Credit Party was Alberta's government for decades and a major part of Alberta's history, but today most Albertans have never heard of the Pro-Life Alberta Political Association, which has never held a seat, let alone formed a government. I suspect those supporting a rename are not from Alberta or know little of its history. Ribbet32 ( talk) 03:38, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
- Merge to Alberta Social Credit Party; don't rename for now. I cannot find any non-routine, non-trivial coverage of this party; it thus fails WP:NORG. In any event, covering the party at the Social Credit Party's article seems to be a reasonable way to provide context and background, as well as serving as an alternative to deletion. Regarding the article's title, there's no need to resolve that here. Since the correct answer is unclear, a requested move discussion would be more reasonable. (In my view, we shouldn't rename articles at AfD unless it's actually necessary. In this case, merging doesn't require renaming, so the decision on whether to rename should be referred to other processes. AfD is not "articles for discussion".) Extraordinary Writ ( talk) 23:53, 2 June 2021 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was merge to Alberta Social Credit Party. Sandstein 20:43, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
Pro-Life Alberta Political Association
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Pro-Life Alberta Political Association ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
This is a fringe regional political party in Canada. All I can find in sources is WP:ROUTINE news coverage about generic election results and fundraising targets of Alberta political parties. Thus, I think this article fails WP:GNG and WP:ORGCRITE. - Indy beetle ( talk) 04:27, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
- What you call "regional" is Provincial, it is a Provincial Party, not National (unlike the USA that is dominantly 2 Party system; Canada and its provinces has a Westminster Model of Parliament with multiple Parties.
- If you're going to delete this page on the grounds that it covers ""...a fringe regional political party in Canada. All I can find in sources is WP:ROUTINE news coverage about generic election results and fundraising targets of Alberta political parties."" then delete the following Wikipedia Pages as well (also so-called fringe regional political parties : /info/en/?search=Communist_Party_%E2%80%93_Alberta /info/en/?search=Green_Party_of_Alberta : /info/en/?search=Independence_Party_of_Alberta : /info/en/?search=Reform_Party_of_Alberta_(2016%E2%80%93present) /info/en/?search=Alberta_Advantage_Party
Please see: "These "other stuff exists" arguments can be valid or invalid. When used correctly, these comparisons are important as the encyclopedia should be consistent in the content that it provides or excludes."— Preceding unsigned comment added by Raygamman ( talk • contribs)
DeleteNon-notable political organization who hasn't run a candidate in any election. Nate • ( chatter) 05:18, 25 May 2021 (UTC)- Merge as said below to Alberta Social Credit Party and fully oppose that article being renamed for this body as the ASCP has much more known history than this body which grabbed its history to try to gain undeserved WP:N it hasn't attained on its own. Nate • ( chatter) 19:44, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
- To quote User:Mrschimpf "Whenever possible, I listen to local editors. There is nothing worse than someone who knows their local community left to right somehow being overruled in their edit by someone 1,000 miles away who has never come close to being in that area and just believes whatever the press says about something, rather than confirming it with someone who knows the subject closely." They did actually. And they're notable as to have a dedicated pro-life party is a first in Alberta, indeed Canadian history.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Raygamman ( talk • contribs)
- https://daveberta.ca/tag/alberta-pro-life-political-association/
- https://www.apah.ca/papa-history
- https://kimsiever.ca/2021/04/24/alberta-ndp-raise-227-more-than-ucp-in-q1-2021/
-
https://www.elections.ab.ca/political-participants/parties/ — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Raygamman (
talk •
contribs)
- Comment Those three sources only tell us people donated money to parties, which is expected in a political system, and the APAH source comes down to 'we knew a lot about the ASCP...but these new people in power we still are trying to determine what they do'. That's not really a good source either. Nate • ( chatter) 21:43, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. Shellwood ( talk) 08:12, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politics-related deletion discussions. Shellwood ( talk) 08:12, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Alberta-related deletion discussions. Shellwood ( talk) 08:12, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
- Comment FWIW the https://www.apah.ca/papa-history article in particular doesn't even mention monies raised, even cover's the org's history: "It’s important to note that in recent history Alberta - and, in fact, Canada - have had relatively little representation of dedicated pro-life politicians holding either provincial or federal office... As a result, many pro-life activist groups have been feeling like their demands have gone unanswered and that their representatives weren't willing to listen to their priorities. Fraser capitalized on the feeling of disenfranchisement among pro-life people and welcomed them to a party that would support their philosophy. With the pro-life activists who came to the annual general meeting, Fraser was able to overthrow the remaining Socred executive and members to stack the party executive with pro-life activists and replace Skowronski as leader." To be fair, sites like the APAH publish only, or at least mostly, when there is an election. When there is you'll see increased coverage. That was written during the 2019 elxn. Raygamman ( talk) 23:51, 26 May 2021 (UTC)
- Hey,
Raygamman, I know you're frustrated and that it's upsetting to have a subject you think is notable at AfD, but generally a deletion discussion goes for several days, so please slow down. Please sign your posts (include four tildes at the end), as right now I'm having to follow you around and sign for you. Why don't you and I adjourn to your user talk and you can ask questions about why other editors think this party may not be notable and what we need to see to show that it is.
—valereee (
talk)
13:28, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! Am relatively new to editing on Wiki. Thanks for the explanation! Raygamman ( talk) 14:42, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
- Delete - Non-notable political org does not pass WP:GNG, WP:NCORP nor WP:ORGCRITE. - Netherzone ( talk) 13:37, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
- Merge into
Alberta Social Credit Party and rename that article to reflect party's new name, then update article to reflect party's change of name and platform. Party was notable under its previous name, that doesn't change just because the name changed and it's not getting sig cov currently.
—valereee (
talk)
13:58, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
- Comment Frankly a rename shouldn't be pursued; if another organization usurped a nearly century-old party just to grab their lists and lobbying power, then it should be a short part of the ASCP's article, not the basis to rename it.
Nate • (
chatter)
21:43, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
- I'm happy to do that and redirect PLAPA to it, if that's what happened. Do we have a source that says that's what happened? I had a source (sorry, didn't save it, didn't think there'd be this comment) that said it was just a rename. —valereee ( talk) 18:28, 27 May 2021 (UTC)
- Comment Frankly a rename shouldn't be pursued; if another organization usurped a nearly century-old party just to grab their lists and lobbying power, then it should be a short part of the ASCP's article, not the basis to rename it.
Nate • (
chatter)
21:43, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
- Merge or Delete'"' Non-notable and purely promotional. Nightenbelle ( talk) 17:36, 26 May 2021 (UTC)
Keep as isOne should not delete articles on topics you wish didn't exist for personal belief reasons – Wikipedia contains information on all topics, not just those which any person or group agrees with. Raygamman ( talk) 23:36, 26 May 2021 (UTC)- Additionally, this article is within the scope of WikiProject Canada, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Canada on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks; the article is supported by WikiProject Alberta; the article is supported by WikiProject Political parties and politicians in Canada. Surely all that counts for something.
Raygamman (
talk)
23:43, 26 May 2021 (UTC)
- Comment You have already de facto voted with your first statement in response to the nom, thus it has been struck. And I'm questioning why you're quoting the opening intros of
WP:INTROTODELETE,
WP:CANADA, and
WP:ALBERTA. Please stop just quoting things you find on pages (including mine) and find proper sources to indicate why this article should be kept.
Nate • (
chatter)
01:02, 27 May 2021 (UTC)
- Comment I quote you because of the irony I see between your words, and actions here. I quote the opening intro's of the WP:CANADA, and WP:ALBERTA because they're on the "Talk" page of the Prolife Alberta Poli. Assoc. wiki article. The Prolife Alberta article is supported by those projects and I figure that counts for something. If I'm posting things I shouldn't or you don't like, I don't know what to tell you. I'm rather new to wiki and seemingly rather unfamiliar with it's ways and wiles. Raygamman ( talk) 01:38, 27 May 2021 (UTC)
- Comment You have already de facto voted with your first statement in response to the nom, thus it has been struck. And I'm questioning why you're quoting the opening intros of
WP:INTROTODELETE,
WP:CANADA, and
WP:ALBERTA. Please stop just quoting things you find on pages (including mine) and find proper sources to indicate why this article should be kept.
Nate • (
chatter)
01:02, 27 May 2021 (UTC)
- Merge and rename re: Alberta Social Credit Party. Missvain ( talk) 00:59, 28 May 2021 (UTC)
- Merge and absolutely oppose rename. The Social Credit Party was Alberta's government for decades and a major part of Alberta's history, but today most Albertans have never heard of the Pro-Life Alberta Political Association, which has never held a seat, let alone formed a government. I suspect those supporting a rename are not from Alberta or know little of its history. Ribbet32 ( talk) 03:38, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
- Merge to Alberta Social Credit Party; don't rename for now. I cannot find any non-routine, non-trivial coverage of this party; it thus fails WP:NORG. In any event, covering the party at the Social Credit Party's article seems to be a reasonable way to provide context and background, as well as serving as an alternative to deletion. Regarding the article's title, there's no need to resolve that here. Since the correct answer is unclear, a requested move discussion would be more reasonable. (In my view, we shouldn't rename articles at AfD unless it's actually necessary. In this case, merging doesn't require renaming, so the decision on whether to rename should be referred to other processes. AfD is not "articles for discussion".) Extraordinary Writ ( talk) 23:53, 2 June 2021 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.