- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. Liz Read! Talk! 02:13, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Pomona, Washington ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
The article claims the community formed in 1885, and was renamed in 1908. Consistently there are no newspaper articles about Pomona the community in the 1890s. During the 1900's when the Yakima county grange movement is getting going there is one mention of Pomona station, and couple in regard to Pomona grange district. Most mentions through 1910 are of Pomona Heights, and Pomona pumps. More than a few for Pomona Kansas, and Pomona, CA.
After 1910, references to a local place referred to simply as Pomona begin to appear, but are non specific as to it's nature. In 1912 and article appears that shows it to be a farming district. ( https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-yakima-herald/52082371/) Same as it was in 1909 ( https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-yakima-herald-as-a-district-and-gran/141165563/). Going forward the mentions become all about Pomona grange district. If this was ever a community there is no evidence of it. James.folsom ( talk) 00:01, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Washington-related deletion discussions. James.folsom ( talk) 00:01, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
- Delete: The Washington Historical Quarterly specifically describes it as a station, not a town: [1]. All other mentions found were passing. There is currently a Pomona Road and a Pomona View trailer park in the area, but no "community" evident. I lived in the area for a while and never heard anyone refer to Pomona as a place, FWIW. WeirdNAnnoyed ( talk) 00:51, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Geography-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 05:33, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Previous WP:PROD candidate, ineligible for soft deletion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗ plicit 00:39, 24 February 2024 (UTC)
- Question - @
James.folsom:, your original prod indicated
East Selah and Pamona are same place
so I deprodded and suggested this should be connected to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/East Selah, Washington that was already in progress. Do we no longer believe this is the case? ~ Kvng ( talk) 15:31, 24 February 2024 (UTC)- One of the Wikipedia articles said Selah and Pamona was the same. The newspaper article said East Seleh and Pomona were the same. That is the only evidence of them being the same thing. Mostly I don't know how to combine them, and I didn't see why it mattered. So I didn't bother to figure it out. If somebody wants to do it's fine with me, but I just don't understand why it matters.
James.folsom (
talk)
20:16, 24 February 2024 (UTC)
- It matters because if they are the same and the result of
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/East Selah, Washington is keep, we should merge or redirect
Pomona, Washington to
East Selah, Washington. ~
Kvng (
talk)
14:49, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
- So how do we get them merged?
James.folsom (
talk)
20:27, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
- It is a mostly manual process. See WP:MERGE. ~ Kvng ( talk) 18:21, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
- So how do we get them merged?
James.folsom (
talk)
20:27, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
- It matters because if they are the same and the result of
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/East Selah, Washington is keep, we should merge or redirect
Pomona, Washington to
East Selah, Washington. ~
Kvng (
talk)
14:49, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
- I was going through the census records to run down the validity of SportingFlyers sources for East Selah. The Census maps have Pomona separate from East Selah. The Wikipedia article claims Pomona grew up around the train station that was named Selah, and later renamed Pomona, while the newspaper said Pomona station used to be known as East Selah station. I think that the east Selah train station was renamed Pomona, and that the rural areas around the station were referred to through the association with the station. I've found no evidence that a town existed. The 19th century areas of East Selah and Pomona are however clearly different from the 20th century areas that share these names. So are they the same, probably yes and no depending on if your talking about today or the 19th century. In the the 19th century they were train stations, in the 20th they are rural areas that echo the names of old stations. So I don't think it matters whether they were AFD together or not. James.folsom ( talk) 22:41, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
- One of the Wikipedia articles said Selah and Pamona was the same. The newspaper article said East Seleh and Pomona were the same. That is the only evidence of them being the same thing. Mostly I don't know how to combine them, and I didn't see why it mattered. So I didn't bother to figure it out. If somebody wants to do it's fine with me, but I just don't understand why it matters.
James.folsom (
talk)
20:16, 24 February 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 00:28, 2 March 2024 (UTC)Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist. Is there a proposal to Merge or Redirect this article?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 03:39, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
- Safest would be keep due to lack of consensus. Merge to
East Selah, Washington is also acceptable since that looks like it will survive its AfD. ~
Kvng (
talk)
15:23, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
- The East Selah in that article is unrelated to the East Selah Train that was renamed to Pomona. James.folsom ( talk) 22:09, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
- Keep Washington: A Guide to the Evergreen State (1944) on p. 465 notes the railroad station, the population of 37, and that it was named after the Roman goddess of fruit. This is not the same community as East Selah - it obviously pre-dates the freeway but appears to be the other side.
SportingFlyer
T·
C
00:08, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
- Your source is not readily available, if you know of a digital source for it let us know. What I know about that source is that it was published by the WPA from information collected in the 1930s. Therefore, I have checked every US census from before Washington was a state until 1950. The US Census never recorded anyone living in a place called Pomona. Without being able to examine your source, I put forward that the US Census is a more reliable source about where people live.
James.folsom (
talk)
21:01, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
- The source is on Google Books. You're dismissing a source because you haven't seen it, which is ridiculous - it was written by the US Government.
SportingFlyer
T·
C
22:26, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
- No because I hadn't seen it, and because it contradicts a much more reliable source. James.folsom ( talk) 22:56, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
- The source is on Google Books. You're dismissing a source because you haven't seen it, which is ridiculous - it was written by the US Government.
SportingFlyer
T·
C
22:26, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
- Your source is not readily available, if you know of a digital source for it let us know. What I know about that source is that it was published by the WPA from information collected in the 1930s. Therefore, I have checked every US census from before Washington was a state until 1950. The US Census never recorded anyone living in a place called Pomona. Without being able to examine your source, I put forward that the US Census is a more reliable source about where people live.
James.folsom (
talk)
21:01, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
- Comment Ahh, got a good link to the book "Washington: A Guide to the Evergreen State" its the 1941 printing --> https://www.google.com/books/edition/Washington/I-okAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=Pomona This is the only good source I've seen that talks about Pomona the place. The section of the book that mentions Pomona is a collection of driving tours. The author was basically driving along Washington State roads and describing what he saw along the way. This stretch with Pomona begins on pg 263, and Pomona is 50 miles into the tour on pg 465. I read a little of the book, and its clear the author is just assuming that every train station that he sees is a town. No explanation of how the author comes up with the population numbers. Probably just by chatting with people he met there. Regardless the US census is a more reliable source for what places existed, and this place is not on any of those. James.folsom ( talk) 23:30, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
- Keep. I'm satisfied by presented secondary sources this was once a small populated place and so meets GNG and GEOLAND. There's a fair amount of presentism in the nomination and comments; for example, the nominator's admitted original synthesis of contemporary US Census information (a primary source) demonstrates a misunderstanding of how rural (often migrant) communities clustered during that era. For the record, offline sources may certainly be utilized, and in this case might be required.
BusterD (
talk)
20:34, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
- There haven't been any secondary sources presented yet. That book is a primary because it's written as the author experienced it, and the mention of Pomona is in passing so it's not even significant coverage. James.folsom ( talk) 23:03, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. Liz Read! Talk! 02:13, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Pomona, Washington ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
The article claims the community formed in 1885, and was renamed in 1908. Consistently there are no newspaper articles about Pomona the community in the 1890s. During the 1900's when the Yakima county grange movement is getting going there is one mention of Pomona station, and couple in regard to Pomona grange district. Most mentions through 1910 are of Pomona Heights, and Pomona pumps. More than a few for Pomona Kansas, and Pomona, CA.
After 1910, references to a local place referred to simply as Pomona begin to appear, but are non specific as to it's nature. In 1912 and article appears that shows it to be a farming district. ( https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-yakima-herald/52082371/) Same as it was in 1909 ( https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-yakima-herald-as-a-district-and-gran/141165563/). Going forward the mentions become all about Pomona grange district. If this was ever a community there is no evidence of it. James.folsom ( talk) 00:01, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Washington-related deletion discussions. James.folsom ( talk) 00:01, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
- Delete: The Washington Historical Quarterly specifically describes it as a station, not a town: [1]. All other mentions found were passing. There is currently a Pomona Road and a Pomona View trailer park in the area, but no "community" evident. I lived in the area for a while and never heard anyone refer to Pomona as a place, FWIW. WeirdNAnnoyed ( talk) 00:51, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Geography-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 05:33, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Previous WP:PROD candidate, ineligible for soft deletion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗ plicit 00:39, 24 February 2024 (UTC)
- Question - @
James.folsom:, your original prod indicated
East Selah and Pamona are same place
so I deprodded and suggested this should be connected to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/East Selah, Washington that was already in progress. Do we no longer believe this is the case? ~ Kvng ( talk) 15:31, 24 February 2024 (UTC)- One of the Wikipedia articles said Selah and Pamona was the same. The newspaper article said East Seleh and Pomona were the same. That is the only evidence of them being the same thing. Mostly I don't know how to combine them, and I didn't see why it mattered. So I didn't bother to figure it out. If somebody wants to do it's fine with me, but I just don't understand why it matters.
James.folsom (
talk)
20:16, 24 February 2024 (UTC)
- It matters because if they are the same and the result of
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/East Selah, Washington is keep, we should merge or redirect
Pomona, Washington to
East Selah, Washington. ~
Kvng (
talk)
14:49, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
- So how do we get them merged?
James.folsom (
talk)
20:27, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
- It is a mostly manual process. See WP:MERGE. ~ Kvng ( talk) 18:21, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
- So how do we get them merged?
James.folsom (
talk)
20:27, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
- It matters because if they are the same and the result of
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/East Selah, Washington is keep, we should merge or redirect
Pomona, Washington to
East Selah, Washington. ~
Kvng (
talk)
14:49, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
- I was going through the census records to run down the validity of SportingFlyers sources for East Selah. The Census maps have Pomona separate from East Selah. The Wikipedia article claims Pomona grew up around the train station that was named Selah, and later renamed Pomona, while the newspaper said Pomona station used to be known as East Selah station. I think that the east Selah train station was renamed Pomona, and that the rural areas around the station were referred to through the association with the station. I've found no evidence that a town existed. The 19th century areas of East Selah and Pomona are however clearly different from the 20th century areas that share these names. So are they the same, probably yes and no depending on if your talking about today or the 19th century. In the the 19th century they were train stations, in the 20th they are rural areas that echo the names of old stations. So I don't think it matters whether they were AFD together or not. James.folsom ( talk) 22:41, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
- One of the Wikipedia articles said Selah and Pamona was the same. The newspaper article said East Seleh and Pomona were the same. That is the only evidence of them being the same thing. Mostly I don't know how to combine them, and I didn't see why it mattered. So I didn't bother to figure it out. If somebody wants to do it's fine with me, but I just don't understand why it matters.
James.folsom (
talk)
20:16, 24 February 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 00:28, 2 March 2024 (UTC)Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist. Is there a proposal to Merge or Redirect this article?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 03:39, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
- Safest would be keep due to lack of consensus. Merge to
East Selah, Washington is also acceptable since that looks like it will survive its AfD. ~
Kvng (
talk)
15:23, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
- The East Selah in that article is unrelated to the East Selah Train that was renamed to Pomona. James.folsom ( talk) 22:09, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
- Keep Washington: A Guide to the Evergreen State (1944) on p. 465 notes the railroad station, the population of 37, and that it was named after the Roman goddess of fruit. This is not the same community as East Selah - it obviously pre-dates the freeway but appears to be the other side.
SportingFlyer
T·
C
00:08, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
- Your source is not readily available, if you know of a digital source for it let us know. What I know about that source is that it was published by the WPA from information collected in the 1930s. Therefore, I have checked every US census from before Washington was a state until 1950. The US Census never recorded anyone living in a place called Pomona. Without being able to examine your source, I put forward that the US Census is a more reliable source about where people live.
James.folsom (
talk)
21:01, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
- The source is on Google Books. You're dismissing a source because you haven't seen it, which is ridiculous - it was written by the US Government.
SportingFlyer
T·
C
22:26, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
- No because I hadn't seen it, and because it contradicts a much more reliable source. James.folsom ( talk) 22:56, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
- The source is on Google Books. You're dismissing a source because you haven't seen it, which is ridiculous - it was written by the US Government.
SportingFlyer
T·
C
22:26, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
- Your source is not readily available, if you know of a digital source for it let us know. What I know about that source is that it was published by the WPA from information collected in the 1930s. Therefore, I have checked every US census from before Washington was a state until 1950. The US Census never recorded anyone living in a place called Pomona. Without being able to examine your source, I put forward that the US Census is a more reliable source about where people live.
James.folsom (
talk)
21:01, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
- Comment Ahh, got a good link to the book "Washington: A Guide to the Evergreen State" its the 1941 printing --> https://www.google.com/books/edition/Washington/I-okAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=Pomona This is the only good source I've seen that talks about Pomona the place. The section of the book that mentions Pomona is a collection of driving tours. The author was basically driving along Washington State roads and describing what he saw along the way. This stretch with Pomona begins on pg 263, and Pomona is 50 miles into the tour on pg 465. I read a little of the book, and its clear the author is just assuming that every train station that he sees is a town. No explanation of how the author comes up with the population numbers. Probably just by chatting with people he met there. Regardless the US census is a more reliable source for what places existed, and this place is not on any of those. James.folsom ( talk) 23:30, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
- Keep. I'm satisfied by presented secondary sources this was once a small populated place and so meets GNG and GEOLAND. There's a fair amount of presentism in the nomination and comments; for example, the nominator's admitted original synthesis of contemporary US Census information (a primary source) demonstrates a misunderstanding of how rural (often migrant) communities clustered during that era. For the record, offline sources may certainly be utilized, and in this case might be required.
BusterD (
talk)
20:34, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
- There haven't been any secondary sources presented yet. That book is a primary because it's written as the author experienced it, and the mention of Pomona is in passing so it's not even significant coverage. James.folsom ( talk) 23:03, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.