The result was no consensus. With socking allegations being thrown around, it is impossible for me to determine a clear consensus. WP:NPASR. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 09:30, 19 April 2013 (UTC) reply
2131 is not in anyway an exceptional chess rating in the scheme of things. Another 169 points are required just to be an FM. Writing articles for CHESS magazine does not a notable person make (I have had an article published in a well known publication, believe me when I say that you haven't heard of me!), and neither does being the son of a Grandmaster. Personally, I am within a few Elo points of this person, and I am strong enough to understand how little I know about the game. Given that this person's entry on wikipedia relates to them being a chess player, they should at least be of FM standard to be afforded an entry. Mendoza2909 ( talk) 00:51, 1 April 2013 (UTC) reply
Several points - 1. 19 years old is way too old to be an emerging prodigy. Actually it's not a prodigy at all. I am in my early 20s. Maybe I am not emerging any more, but do I still get to be a prodigy, given my rating of over 2100?
2. Apparently my first sentence sounds very berating. I would reply that my rating is within 10 Elo points of Peter so actually, I am completely honest as I know exactly of what I speak. Our ratings are close enough that if we played 100 games, our current ratings indicate that Peter would win about 51-52 and I would win 48-49. (Feel free to correct me anyone, but I'm not far off). In reality, there is enough margin of error in the elo rating system that it is impossible to detect a real difference in our standard. As I said, I know enough about the game and my own place within it to know that I am not an expert. At a stretch I would call myself a very good club player. By extension, I would call Peter a very good club player, no more.
3. National Master is a title created by the British Chess Federation. It is not internationally recognised. Once you have reached a certain standard, you pay a fee and you get awarded the title. Many players don't bother and save a few pounds. In my view it is there to create a bit of extra cash. All due respect to Peter for having earned this title, but he has such a long way to go before reaching an internationally accredited title. I'm sure it's a very impressive thing to say at parties to non-chess players, but chess players should be under no illusion that it is anything other than recognition of a strong club player. If he ever reaches FM I'm sure you'll find that National Master title disappears from his CV very quickly.
4. You say that Peter Lalic is an "expert" class chess player at the International level'. I would bet a lot of money that Peter will never play in a senior international competition for Britain on merit. Glorney and Faber doesn't count in my book unfortunately.
5. Is being 153rd ranked chess player in Britain a notable achievement? Really?
6. Chessgames.com... hmm... Play in an international open tournament and your games will likely end up on a database. Especially if you played a GM in the first or second round (because your seeding is that low) and lose.
7. The guy obviously loves chess, wants to improve and submitting articles to a chess magazine is a part of that. But it's something anyone of certain standard can do. Write enough articles and eventually they'll get published. Doesn't mean I'm a good player. Or that anyone over 2200 won't just skip over the stuff he writes. Yes, I've read some of it.
8. This person William Stewart. He ranks Peter's channel as one of the top 10 chess channels on youtube. Apparently he is famous. I have never heard of him. Believe me when I say most people haven't heard of him. He doesn't have a Wikipedia page (a general indicator of notability) despite being ranked 150 points higher than Peter. He is however a chess coach, like Peter. Maybe they have heard of each other. Maybe they have even met each other. Who knows? Anyway, I will repeat he is not famous, nor a chess player that the general chess public will listen to, therefore his opinion should not be counted. This should be higher up the list, but I am on a roll.
9. I have never met Peter Lalic. I have no reason to dislike Peter Lalic. I dislike this Wikipedia page as it attempts to portray a strong club player as something he is not.
10. It is obviously significant that he is the son of two notable chess players, but this significance should surely come after the fact of establishing his own notability. I therefore disregard everything you say on the matter of his parents, although I will say...
11. Susan Lalic is not a Grandmaster. She is a Woman Grandmaster. The standard for achieving the title of WGM is lower. As a WGM, IM and 5 time British Champion (respect!) she is certainly deserving of an entry on Wikipedia. I am a man for the details!
Apologies for the formatting if it isn't good. By the way, I think myself a good player, but I know exactly where I stand among the greats, and that is precisely nowhere. I know enough to appreciate their greatness and to strive for it myself, even if it's only for one game.
Mendoza2909 ( talk ) 16:03, 8 April 2013 (GMT)
ECF Accredited Coaches ECF Accredited Coaches have fulfilled the following requirements:
1) They hold an Enhanced CRB Clearance, which is less than three years old.
2) They have supplied two professional character references to the satisfaction of the ECF.
3) They have supplied the Manager of Coaching with details of previous coaching or teaching experience.
4) They are a current ECF member.
Actually this is ridiculous. He is touted as the youngest ever coach in the ECF. All he had to do was have previously taught in schools and pass a criminal background check. So much about this article screams mediocrity (compared to anyone, you know, notable). 2131 ranking, 17th in British championships, National Master, Board 3 of the U-18 team. He played in the British championships, therefore his games will get onto chessgames.com. (The highest rated player he beat in that competition was 2271. Nothing special. I've beaten a 2400. I'm sure he has too.)
Altogether it adds up to an above average chess player (and not more). By the way, the Glorney Cup only involves Ireland, Wales, Scotland and England, so again his board prize sounds impressive until you realise that he was competing for it against 3 other people.
I realise it does sound like I have some sort of vendetta here. I don't, have never met the guy. As regards playing strength, the internet does have a habit of providing anonymity, but if you choose to believe me, my Elo of >2100 means I know what I am talking about. I think this page is an abomination and that is why I am still here, writing this message. Every playing achievement listed here has been painted in a far rosier light than is actually the case. So has the coaching achievement. He's not a chip off the old block, as it is unlikely he will ever reach the playing strength of either of his parents. That's the way chess goes, it is a young (wo)man's game.
If you think that contributing regularly to a magazine makes him notable then so be it (How regularly is regularly?). If that is the case, then can I suggest a substantial rewrite of everything else here, as he should be listed primarily as a chess contributor. Or perhaps as a chess coach. Certainly not as a chess player though. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mendoza2909 ( talk • contribs) 01:00, 13 April 2013 (UTC) reply
Delete per Sasata. "Bang some sluts!"—he had to let us know. Toccata quarta ( talk) 04:02, 17 April 2013 (UTC) reply
The result was no consensus. With socking allegations being thrown around, it is impossible for me to determine a clear consensus. WP:NPASR. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 09:30, 19 April 2013 (UTC) reply
2131 is not in anyway an exceptional chess rating in the scheme of things. Another 169 points are required just to be an FM. Writing articles for CHESS magazine does not a notable person make (I have had an article published in a well known publication, believe me when I say that you haven't heard of me!), and neither does being the son of a Grandmaster. Personally, I am within a few Elo points of this person, and I am strong enough to understand how little I know about the game. Given that this person's entry on wikipedia relates to them being a chess player, they should at least be of FM standard to be afforded an entry. Mendoza2909 ( talk) 00:51, 1 April 2013 (UTC) reply
Several points - 1. 19 years old is way too old to be an emerging prodigy. Actually it's not a prodigy at all. I am in my early 20s. Maybe I am not emerging any more, but do I still get to be a prodigy, given my rating of over 2100?
2. Apparently my first sentence sounds very berating. I would reply that my rating is within 10 Elo points of Peter so actually, I am completely honest as I know exactly of what I speak. Our ratings are close enough that if we played 100 games, our current ratings indicate that Peter would win about 51-52 and I would win 48-49. (Feel free to correct me anyone, but I'm not far off). In reality, there is enough margin of error in the elo rating system that it is impossible to detect a real difference in our standard. As I said, I know enough about the game and my own place within it to know that I am not an expert. At a stretch I would call myself a very good club player. By extension, I would call Peter a very good club player, no more.
3. National Master is a title created by the British Chess Federation. It is not internationally recognised. Once you have reached a certain standard, you pay a fee and you get awarded the title. Many players don't bother and save a few pounds. In my view it is there to create a bit of extra cash. All due respect to Peter for having earned this title, but he has such a long way to go before reaching an internationally accredited title. I'm sure it's a very impressive thing to say at parties to non-chess players, but chess players should be under no illusion that it is anything other than recognition of a strong club player. If he ever reaches FM I'm sure you'll find that National Master title disappears from his CV very quickly.
4. You say that Peter Lalic is an "expert" class chess player at the International level'. I would bet a lot of money that Peter will never play in a senior international competition for Britain on merit. Glorney and Faber doesn't count in my book unfortunately.
5. Is being 153rd ranked chess player in Britain a notable achievement? Really?
6. Chessgames.com... hmm... Play in an international open tournament and your games will likely end up on a database. Especially if you played a GM in the first or second round (because your seeding is that low) and lose.
7. The guy obviously loves chess, wants to improve and submitting articles to a chess magazine is a part of that. But it's something anyone of certain standard can do. Write enough articles and eventually they'll get published. Doesn't mean I'm a good player. Or that anyone over 2200 won't just skip over the stuff he writes. Yes, I've read some of it.
8. This person William Stewart. He ranks Peter's channel as one of the top 10 chess channels on youtube. Apparently he is famous. I have never heard of him. Believe me when I say most people haven't heard of him. He doesn't have a Wikipedia page (a general indicator of notability) despite being ranked 150 points higher than Peter. He is however a chess coach, like Peter. Maybe they have heard of each other. Maybe they have even met each other. Who knows? Anyway, I will repeat he is not famous, nor a chess player that the general chess public will listen to, therefore his opinion should not be counted. This should be higher up the list, but I am on a roll.
9. I have never met Peter Lalic. I have no reason to dislike Peter Lalic. I dislike this Wikipedia page as it attempts to portray a strong club player as something he is not.
10. It is obviously significant that he is the son of two notable chess players, but this significance should surely come after the fact of establishing his own notability. I therefore disregard everything you say on the matter of his parents, although I will say...
11. Susan Lalic is not a Grandmaster. She is a Woman Grandmaster. The standard for achieving the title of WGM is lower. As a WGM, IM and 5 time British Champion (respect!) she is certainly deserving of an entry on Wikipedia. I am a man for the details!
Apologies for the formatting if it isn't good. By the way, I think myself a good player, but I know exactly where I stand among the greats, and that is precisely nowhere. I know enough to appreciate their greatness and to strive for it myself, even if it's only for one game.
Mendoza2909 ( talk ) 16:03, 8 April 2013 (GMT)
ECF Accredited Coaches ECF Accredited Coaches have fulfilled the following requirements:
1) They hold an Enhanced CRB Clearance, which is less than three years old.
2) They have supplied two professional character references to the satisfaction of the ECF.
3) They have supplied the Manager of Coaching with details of previous coaching or teaching experience.
4) They are a current ECF member.
Actually this is ridiculous. He is touted as the youngest ever coach in the ECF. All he had to do was have previously taught in schools and pass a criminal background check. So much about this article screams mediocrity (compared to anyone, you know, notable). 2131 ranking, 17th in British championships, National Master, Board 3 of the U-18 team. He played in the British championships, therefore his games will get onto chessgames.com. (The highest rated player he beat in that competition was 2271. Nothing special. I've beaten a 2400. I'm sure he has too.)
Altogether it adds up to an above average chess player (and not more). By the way, the Glorney Cup only involves Ireland, Wales, Scotland and England, so again his board prize sounds impressive until you realise that he was competing for it against 3 other people.
I realise it does sound like I have some sort of vendetta here. I don't, have never met the guy. As regards playing strength, the internet does have a habit of providing anonymity, but if you choose to believe me, my Elo of >2100 means I know what I am talking about. I think this page is an abomination and that is why I am still here, writing this message. Every playing achievement listed here has been painted in a far rosier light than is actually the case. So has the coaching achievement. He's not a chip off the old block, as it is unlikely he will ever reach the playing strength of either of his parents. That's the way chess goes, it is a young (wo)man's game.
If you think that contributing regularly to a magazine makes him notable then so be it (How regularly is regularly?). If that is the case, then can I suggest a substantial rewrite of everything else here, as he should be listed primarily as a chess contributor. Or perhaps as a chess coach. Certainly not as a chess player though. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mendoza2909 ( talk • contribs) 01:00, 13 April 2013 (UTC) reply
Delete per Sasata. "Bang some sluts!"—he had to let us know. Toccata quarta ( talk) 04:02, 17 April 2013 (UTC) reply