- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Both the weight of the opinions here and the essay WP:MMANOT, which does in my experience carry some weight, argue against inclusion here, indicate this result. -- j⚛e decker talk 08:26, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
Pannie Kianzad
- Pannie Kianzad ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Non-notable MMA fighter with few fights and non-Top tier. Does not meet WP:MMANOT or WP:GNG. Peter Rehse ( talk) 11:03, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Martial arts-related deletion discussions. Peter Rehse ( talk) 11:03, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
Response to the above from Patrick Jenkinson by looking at "Criteria supporting notability according to WP:MMANOT". Pannie Kianzad is considered one of the hottest prospects outside of the UFC. Both Swedish and European interest is big, even american outlets have written about her (first criteria). This weekend she's fighting for bantamweight title at Cage Warriors 74 in the co-main event (second criteria). She has fought for Superior Challenge (Scandinavias largest MMA-organisation), Cage Warriors (Europes largest MMA-organisation) and PRO FC (a large Russian MMA-organization) (third criteria). In other words, she's notable enough to have a wikipedia page in english.
- The notability criteria for MMA fighters can be found at WP:NMMA, which is under WP:NSPORTS. Mdtemp ( talk) 19:18, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
- Delete Doesn't meet WP:NMMA with no top tier fights. Being a "prospect" is a sure sign someone is not yet notable. Mdtemp ( talk) 19:18, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
- Keep! Kianzad fulfills criteria 2 of WP:NMMA on Saturday when she fights for the bantamweight title at Cage Warriors - the premier organisation in Europe. [1] 22:49, 11 November User:Patrick Jenkinson
- Cage Warriors is not top tier. You might want to look at WP:MMATIER. Mdtemp ( talk) 17:27, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. NorthAmerica 1000 03:36, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sweden-related deletion discussions. NorthAmerica 1000 03:36, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
- Keep Cage Warriors, whilst not UFC-level, is the biggest European organisation by far. Fighting for their belt isn't a joke.
John Firth (
talk) 19:44, 15 November 2014 (UTC)
- She's now Cage Warriors Bantamweight champion, so I think she now counts for definite. John Firth ( talk) 23:12, 15 November 2014 (UTC)
- Delete Doesn't meet WP:NMMA. Dwanyewest ( talk) 21:58, 15 November 2014 (UTC)
- Delete Fails to meet WP:NMMA with no top tier fights. Many MMA fighters with second tier titles have been deleted. I'm not convinced by people ignoring consensus and creating their own notability criteria simply because WP:ILIKEIT. Papaursa ( talk) 19:07, 16 November 2014 (UTC)
Keep"Kianzad is ranked 19th in the world as a bantamweight[6] and 3rd among bantamweights outside of UFC[7]. Kianzad is the highest ranked bantamweight in Europe.[8]" - That has to count for something = Top Tier. For European women Cage Warriors is as "top tier" as it gets and would say it is equal to Invicta FC (USA) and better than Jewelz (Japan). She is the champion of the organization that produced Conor McGregor as two time champion. I'm beginning to feel a bias towards anything not UFC or American. And a bias because she is a women. She has beaten Milana Dudieva that is in the UFC. Patrick Jenkinson ( talk) 21:48, 16 November 2014 (UTC)
- I deleted your latest vote because you're only allowed 1 vote per discussion, although you can comment as often as you like. I realize this is basically the only article you've edited in nearly 3 years, but you're still not supposed to make up your own notability criteria. Unilaterally declaring something to be top tier when there's already a consensus is considered to be bad form. Papaursa ( talk) 02:34, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
Comment - I'm sorry if I overstepped some kind of boundary, not my intention. But I don't agree that there is a consensus, just a majority towards a stand point. But I strongly feel that Kianzad fulfills the criteria and that there is a bias against anything not American. three out of four organizations that are classed as top tier are from the USA. No European organization? It is ridiculous that anything not UFC, Invicta, Bellator is not top tier. Cage Warriors have multiple shows around the world and have signed the very best fighters on the European scene. I strongly feel the bias against our part of the world. But even greater there is a bias against women in MMA. For example - why has UCMMA champ Georgio Andrews a wiki page that isn't contested? UCMMA is a smaller organisation and classed as second tier. I believe it is based on gender when it comes to Kianzad and that is a shame. User:Patrick Jenkinson
- I don't understand your argument. The page you're referring to on Georgio Andrews is a redlink, which means it doesn't exist. As far as consensus goes, the discussion about MMA notability was a long and contentious one with many editors taking part--including a number from Europe. If you wish to argue for a change in the MMA notability criteria, an AfD discussion is not the proper place. Papaursa ( talk) 03:44, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
- Delete Fails to meet WP:NMMA with no top tier fights. Frmorrison ( talk) 16:32, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Both the weight of the opinions here and the essay WP:MMANOT, which does in my experience carry some weight, argue against inclusion here, indicate this result. -- j⚛e decker talk 08:26, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
Pannie Kianzad
- Pannie Kianzad ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Non-notable MMA fighter with few fights and non-Top tier. Does not meet WP:MMANOT or WP:GNG. Peter Rehse ( talk) 11:03, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Martial arts-related deletion discussions. Peter Rehse ( talk) 11:03, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
Response to the above from Patrick Jenkinson by looking at "Criteria supporting notability according to WP:MMANOT". Pannie Kianzad is considered one of the hottest prospects outside of the UFC. Both Swedish and European interest is big, even american outlets have written about her (first criteria). This weekend she's fighting for bantamweight title at Cage Warriors 74 in the co-main event (second criteria). She has fought for Superior Challenge (Scandinavias largest MMA-organisation), Cage Warriors (Europes largest MMA-organisation) and PRO FC (a large Russian MMA-organization) (third criteria). In other words, she's notable enough to have a wikipedia page in english.
- The notability criteria for MMA fighters can be found at WP:NMMA, which is under WP:NSPORTS. Mdtemp ( talk) 19:18, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
- Delete Doesn't meet WP:NMMA with no top tier fights. Being a "prospect" is a sure sign someone is not yet notable. Mdtemp ( talk) 19:18, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
- Keep! Kianzad fulfills criteria 2 of WP:NMMA on Saturday when she fights for the bantamweight title at Cage Warriors - the premier organisation in Europe. [1] 22:49, 11 November User:Patrick Jenkinson
- Cage Warriors is not top tier. You might want to look at WP:MMATIER. Mdtemp ( talk) 17:27, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. NorthAmerica 1000 03:36, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sweden-related deletion discussions. NorthAmerica 1000 03:36, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
- Keep Cage Warriors, whilst not UFC-level, is the biggest European organisation by far. Fighting for their belt isn't a joke.
John Firth (
talk) 19:44, 15 November 2014 (UTC)
- She's now Cage Warriors Bantamweight champion, so I think she now counts for definite. John Firth ( talk) 23:12, 15 November 2014 (UTC)
- Delete Doesn't meet WP:NMMA. Dwanyewest ( talk) 21:58, 15 November 2014 (UTC)
- Delete Fails to meet WP:NMMA with no top tier fights. Many MMA fighters with second tier titles have been deleted. I'm not convinced by people ignoring consensus and creating their own notability criteria simply because WP:ILIKEIT. Papaursa ( talk) 19:07, 16 November 2014 (UTC)
Keep"Kianzad is ranked 19th in the world as a bantamweight[6] and 3rd among bantamweights outside of UFC[7]. Kianzad is the highest ranked bantamweight in Europe.[8]" - That has to count for something = Top Tier. For European women Cage Warriors is as "top tier" as it gets and would say it is equal to Invicta FC (USA) and better than Jewelz (Japan). She is the champion of the organization that produced Conor McGregor as two time champion. I'm beginning to feel a bias towards anything not UFC or American. And a bias because she is a women. She has beaten Milana Dudieva that is in the UFC. Patrick Jenkinson ( talk) 21:48, 16 November 2014 (UTC)
- I deleted your latest vote because you're only allowed 1 vote per discussion, although you can comment as often as you like. I realize this is basically the only article you've edited in nearly 3 years, but you're still not supposed to make up your own notability criteria. Unilaterally declaring something to be top tier when there's already a consensus is considered to be bad form. Papaursa ( talk) 02:34, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
Comment - I'm sorry if I overstepped some kind of boundary, not my intention. But I don't agree that there is a consensus, just a majority towards a stand point. But I strongly feel that Kianzad fulfills the criteria and that there is a bias against anything not American. three out of four organizations that are classed as top tier are from the USA. No European organization? It is ridiculous that anything not UFC, Invicta, Bellator is not top tier. Cage Warriors have multiple shows around the world and have signed the very best fighters on the European scene. I strongly feel the bias against our part of the world. But even greater there is a bias against women in MMA. For example - why has UCMMA champ Georgio Andrews a wiki page that isn't contested? UCMMA is a smaller organisation and classed as second tier. I believe it is based on gender when it comes to Kianzad and that is a shame. User:Patrick Jenkinson
- I don't understand your argument. The page you're referring to on Georgio Andrews is a redlink, which means it doesn't exist. As far as consensus goes, the discussion about MMA notability was a long and contentious one with many editors taking part--including a number from Europe. If you wish to argue for a change in the MMA notability criteria, an AfD discussion is not the proper place. Papaursa ( talk) 03:44, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
- Delete Fails to meet WP:NMMA with no top tier fights. Frmorrison ( talk) 16:32, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.