- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. – Joe ( talk) 10:09, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
Nicole Simonsen
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I proded this article, but Onel5969 deproded when he reviewed the article, note that W-league is NOT listed in WP:FPL, so fail WP:NFOOTY, thanks! Hhkohh ( talk) 01:40, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 01:41, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 01:41, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 01:41, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Australia-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 01:41, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
- Keep - Sorry, but the first line in WP:FPL is "This list is incomplete; you can help by expanding it." It's an essay, not a guideline. The actual pertinent guideline is WP:NFOOTY, which clearly states, "Players who have played, and managers who have managed in a competitive game between two teams from fully-professional leagues...". The W-League (Australia) is " the top-division women's soccer league in Australia, run by Football Federation Australia (FFA)". It's a fully professional league. Therefore as this player plays for a team in that league, she clearly meets WP:NFOOTY. Onel5969 TT me 03:00, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
- Delete First it's not a fully professional league: [1] Second she hasn't played in a fully professional league, so at best this would be a draftify - but the only thing I can find on her are a couple routine articles talking about how she signed for the Wanderers. I've been on the record saying I don't think NFOOTY works very well for women's leagues, but she doesn't come close to passing WP:GNG either. SportingFlyer talk 04:36, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
- Delete on account of subject not meeting
WP:NFOOTY. That guideline demands that the subject must
have played...in a competitive game between two teams from fully-professional leagues
. The guideline, then, links to a list of the professional leagues participation in which by a footballer is accepted by Wikipedia as evidence of the footballer's notability. For Australia, the W-League and the NSW National Premier League, in which subject has played, are not in the list (only the A-League is). - The Gnome ( talk) 05:52, 16 June 2018 (UTC) - Delete Fails WP:GNG and WP:NFOOTBALL. Govvy ( talk) 10:48, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
- Delete per WP:NFOOTY failure. It's not a fully-professional league, so the first 'keep' !vote should be discounted as being clearly in error (the W-League is listed at WP:FPL in the non fully-professional category). Number 5 7 14:17, 17 June 2018 (UTC)
- Delete - fails WP:GNG and WP:NFOOTBALL. Giant Snowman 09:10, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
- Comment When is a league considered fully professional? All players in the W-League get paid to play since 2017. As per the attached article Under the new two-year agreement, all players, other than those on scholarships, are guaranteed a minimum retainer of at least $10,000 for the coming season and $12,200 for the 2018/19 season, with no prescribed maximum cap on any one player’s retainer.. Started a discussion here as just realised even if the league is pro, this player hasn't made an appearance for WSW in the league anyway yet. NZFC (talk) 21:44, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
- Comment -- I think at some point we need to look at the fact that WP:NFOOTY has issues with systemic bias and is going to lead to systematically less coverage of women athletes. This is problematic. As NZFC points out, the league considers itself professional. One can make arguments about the amount of money meaning they have to work second jobs so they aren't professional, or that the league does not receive as much media coverage -- but equally these reasons can all come back to concerns of systemic bias. It's absolutely true that one individuals AfD isn't the best place to talk about these broader issues. That being said, I think this is a conversation that needs to be had, and we need to look at addressing WP:NFOOTY's gender imbalance. matt91486 ( talk) 00:23, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
- Comment I agree. Interestingly, it wouldn't save this article, as she hasn't made an appearance. SportingFlyer talk 15:23, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
- Agree with above comments by matt91486. - The Gnome ( talk) 13:01, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
- Delete - nothing to do with NFOOTY (which is completely unfit for purpose even for male footballers but that's another debate), she just clearly does not pass the GNG. BigDom ( talk) 15:38, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. – Joe ( talk) 10:09, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
Nicole Simonsen
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Nicole Simonsen ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
I proded this article, but Onel5969 deproded when he reviewed the article, note that W-league is NOT listed in WP:FPL, so fail WP:NFOOTY, thanks! Hhkohh ( talk) 01:40, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 01:41, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 01:41, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 01:41, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Australia-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 01:41, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
- Keep - Sorry, but the first line in WP:FPL is "This list is incomplete; you can help by expanding it." It's an essay, not a guideline. The actual pertinent guideline is WP:NFOOTY, which clearly states, "Players who have played, and managers who have managed in a competitive game between two teams from fully-professional leagues...". The W-League (Australia) is " the top-division women's soccer league in Australia, run by Football Federation Australia (FFA)". It's a fully professional league. Therefore as this player plays for a team in that league, she clearly meets WP:NFOOTY. Onel5969 TT me 03:00, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
- Delete First it's not a fully professional league: [1] Second she hasn't played in a fully professional league, so at best this would be a draftify - but the only thing I can find on her are a couple routine articles talking about how she signed for the Wanderers. I've been on the record saying I don't think NFOOTY works very well for women's leagues, but she doesn't come close to passing WP:GNG either. SportingFlyer talk 04:36, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
- Delete on account of subject not meeting
WP:NFOOTY. That guideline demands that the subject must
have played...in a competitive game between two teams from fully-professional leagues
. The guideline, then, links to a list of the professional leagues participation in which by a footballer is accepted by Wikipedia as evidence of the footballer's notability. For Australia, the W-League and the NSW National Premier League, in which subject has played, are not in the list (only the A-League is). - The Gnome ( talk) 05:52, 16 June 2018 (UTC) - Delete Fails WP:GNG and WP:NFOOTBALL. Govvy ( talk) 10:48, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
- Delete per WP:NFOOTY failure. It's not a fully-professional league, so the first 'keep' !vote should be discounted as being clearly in error (the W-League is listed at WP:FPL in the non fully-professional category). Number 5 7 14:17, 17 June 2018 (UTC)
- Delete - fails WP:GNG and WP:NFOOTBALL. Giant Snowman 09:10, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
- Comment When is a league considered fully professional? All players in the W-League get paid to play since 2017. As per the attached article Under the new two-year agreement, all players, other than those on scholarships, are guaranteed a minimum retainer of at least $10,000 for the coming season and $12,200 for the 2018/19 season, with no prescribed maximum cap on any one player’s retainer.. Started a discussion here as just realised even if the league is pro, this player hasn't made an appearance for WSW in the league anyway yet. NZFC (talk) 21:44, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
- Comment -- I think at some point we need to look at the fact that WP:NFOOTY has issues with systemic bias and is going to lead to systematically less coverage of women athletes. This is problematic. As NZFC points out, the league considers itself professional. One can make arguments about the amount of money meaning they have to work second jobs so they aren't professional, or that the league does not receive as much media coverage -- but equally these reasons can all come back to concerns of systemic bias. It's absolutely true that one individuals AfD isn't the best place to talk about these broader issues. That being said, I think this is a conversation that needs to be had, and we need to look at addressing WP:NFOOTY's gender imbalance. matt91486 ( talk) 00:23, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
- Comment I agree. Interestingly, it wouldn't save this article, as she hasn't made an appearance. SportingFlyer talk 15:23, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
- Agree with above comments by matt91486. - The Gnome ( talk) 13:01, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
- Delete - nothing to do with NFOOTY (which is completely unfit for purpose even for male footballers but that's another debate), she just clearly does not pass the GNG. BigDom ( talk) 15:38, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.