- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Withdrawn by nom - will work on the article. (non-admin closure) Wilhelm Tell DCCXLVI ( talk to me!/ my edits) 05:40, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
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- Nationalism in Trinidad and Tobago ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Nationalism in Trinidad and Tobago may well be a thing, but I struggle to see where this article even addresses it. It is written like an essay and attempts to divine nationalism from an arbitrary selection of social and cultural issues, apparently with mostly irrelevant sourcing. For example source [3] is attached to the claim that calypso music is a form of Trinbagonian nationalism... the source, besides not really being an RS, says nothing of the sort. The dispute with Barbados should more properly be in Barbados-Trinidad and Tobago relations and the entire "Evolution" section, besides mostly being SYNTH, has content that should really be in LGBT rights in Trinidad and Tobago.
There is no RS that unifies these disparate topics - Trinbagonian culture, the dispute with Barbados, and LGBT rights - into a single topic about nationalism in the country. Thus, in my view, the article should be deleted. Wilhelm Tell DCCXLVI ( talk to me!/ my edits) 06:46, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Politics, Social science, and Trinidad and Tobago. Wilhelm Tell DCCXLVI ( talk to me!/ my edits) 06:46, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
- Keep and stubify - It's pretty clear to me that the existence of books like https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/Race_and_Nationalism_in_Trinidad_and_Tob.html?id=z2sKAQAAIAAJ&redir_esc=y (and plenty of other coverage I could find trivial) make this a notable subject. That said, the nom's critiques of the article are legitimate, it is certainly not acceptable to cite a stats database and from it draw conclusions about opportunity. There's a strong case to WP:TNT almost everything that's there at the moment. BrigadierG ( talk) 08:38, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
- Decisive keep - "Trinibagonian nationalism" obviously passes GNG from the first page of google results
[1]
[2]
[3] and would likely have even more material across WPLibrary or other databases, nomination fails BEFORE and NOTCLEANUP. Even stubification seems extreme, the bit on the history of the country could easily stay if its just renamed to "Background" or something of the sort; Seeking independence from another country is going to involve some amount of nationalistic thinking no matter what, that just falls under SKYISBLUE.
Orchastrattor (
talk)
20:28, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
- The history bit should only be retained if RSes talking about Trinbagonian nationalism in its history are added to the article. We have the
Culture of Trinidad and Tobago and
History of Trinidad and Tobago already.
Wilhelm Tell DCCXLVI (
talk to me!/
my edits)
01:52, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
- If the existence of the subject can already be established through RS then whether an additional source specifically refers to the subject by name or not becomes a question of due weight, not verification. The point of a background section is to summarize plainly relevant information from parent topics, why shouldn't such information be present across multiple articles if it is relevant to all of them? Orchastrattor ( talk) 18:12, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
- The history bit should only be retained if RSes talking about Trinbagonian nationalism in its history are added to the article. We have the
Culture of Trinidad and Tobago and
History of Trinidad and Tobago already.
Wilhelm Tell DCCXLVI (
talk to me!/
my edits)
01:52, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
References
- ^ https://jps.library.utoronto.ca/index.php/cquilt/article/download/38626/31517/110381
- ^ https://read.dukeupress.edu/hahr/article/55/1/128/151121/Race-and-Nationalism-in-Trinidad-and-Tobago-A
- ^ https://read.dukeupress.edu/books/book/626/chapter-abstract/128162/C-L-R-James-and-Trinidadian-Nationalism?redirectedFrom=fulltext
- Keep clearly a notable topic based on the sources and books in the article. The problems raised by the nominator can be addressed through editing. SportingFlyer T· C 17:32, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Withdrawn by nom - will work on the article. (non-admin closure) Wilhelm Tell DCCXLVI ( talk to me!/ my edits) 05:40, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Nationalism in Trinidad and Tobago ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Nationalism in Trinidad and Tobago may well be a thing, but I struggle to see where this article even addresses it. It is written like an essay and attempts to divine nationalism from an arbitrary selection of social and cultural issues, apparently with mostly irrelevant sourcing. For example source [3] is attached to the claim that calypso music is a form of Trinbagonian nationalism... the source, besides not really being an RS, says nothing of the sort. The dispute with Barbados should more properly be in Barbados-Trinidad and Tobago relations and the entire "Evolution" section, besides mostly being SYNTH, has content that should really be in LGBT rights in Trinidad and Tobago.
There is no RS that unifies these disparate topics - Trinbagonian culture, the dispute with Barbados, and LGBT rights - into a single topic about nationalism in the country. Thus, in my view, the article should be deleted. Wilhelm Tell DCCXLVI ( talk to me!/ my edits) 06:46, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Politics, Social science, and Trinidad and Tobago. Wilhelm Tell DCCXLVI ( talk to me!/ my edits) 06:46, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
- Keep and stubify - It's pretty clear to me that the existence of books like https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/Race_and_Nationalism_in_Trinidad_and_Tob.html?id=z2sKAQAAIAAJ&redir_esc=y (and plenty of other coverage I could find trivial) make this a notable subject. That said, the nom's critiques of the article are legitimate, it is certainly not acceptable to cite a stats database and from it draw conclusions about opportunity. There's a strong case to WP:TNT almost everything that's there at the moment. BrigadierG ( talk) 08:38, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
- Decisive keep - "Trinibagonian nationalism" obviously passes GNG from the first page of google results
[1]
[2]
[3] and would likely have even more material across WPLibrary or other databases, nomination fails BEFORE and NOTCLEANUP. Even stubification seems extreme, the bit on the history of the country could easily stay if its just renamed to "Background" or something of the sort; Seeking independence from another country is going to involve some amount of nationalistic thinking no matter what, that just falls under SKYISBLUE.
Orchastrattor (
talk)
20:28, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
- The history bit should only be retained if RSes talking about Trinbagonian nationalism in its history are added to the article. We have the
Culture of Trinidad and Tobago and
History of Trinidad and Tobago already.
Wilhelm Tell DCCXLVI (
talk to me!/
my edits)
01:52, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
- If the existence of the subject can already be established through RS then whether an additional source specifically refers to the subject by name or not becomes a question of due weight, not verification. The point of a background section is to summarize plainly relevant information from parent topics, why shouldn't such information be present across multiple articles if it is relevant to all of them? Orchastrattor ( talk) 18:12, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
- The history bit should only be retained if RSes talking about Trinbagonian nationalism in its history are added to the article. We have the
Culture of Trinidad and Tobago and
History of Trinidad and Tobago already.
Wilhelm Tell DCCXLVI (
talk to me!/
my edits)
01:52, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
References
- ^ https://jps.library.utoronto.ca/index.php/cquilt/article/download/38626/31517/110381
- ^ https://read.dukeupress.edu/hahr/article/55/1/128/151121/Race-and-Nationalism-in-Trinidad-and-Tobago-A
- ^ https://read.dukeupress.edu/books/book/626/chapter-abstract/128162/C-L-R-James-and-Trinidadian-Nationalism?redirectedFrom=fulltext
- Keep clearly a notable topic based on the sources and books in the article. The problems raised by the nominator can be addressed through editing. SportingFlyer T· C 17:32, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.