- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Sarahj2107 ( talk) 15:56, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
National Rural Touring Forum
- National Rural Touring Forum ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
This article was created by a representative of the event's ticket agency. All sources are churnalism, PR pieces reprinted uncritically. No evidence it meets WP:GNG. Aside: as part of its target audience, I have never even heard of it. Guy ( Help!) 18:01, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
- Delete, unambiguous advertising,
undisclosedincompletely disclosed paid editing in violation of our WP:Terms of Use. The paid editor has refused to make proper disclosure, but is apparently happy for us to know that he is the Wikipedia contact for any issues or questions for TicketSource Ltd.
- This appears to be exactly the sort of advertisement masquerading as something else ("... not identifiable as advertising to consumers ...", likely to "... mislead consumers into believing [it is] independent, impartial, or not from the sponsoring advertiser itself ...") that is considered "deceptive" – and thus illegal – in the United States under rules laid down by the Federal Trade Commission. Wikimedia projects are governed by American law. We do not tolerate promotion of any kind, and we certainly cannot tolerate promotion that may be illegal.
- Oh, and it does not come close to satisfying the requirements of
WP:NCORP.
Justlettersandnumbers (
talk) 19:29, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
- @
Justlettersandnumbers: The creator of the article properly discloses the employer, both in the username and on the user page. This isn't a case of an undisclosed paid editor.
- Not exactly,
Anachronist – the user has disclosed a connection, but at the same time seems to be trying to maintain that he is not a paid editor. See for example
"Those not familiar with how Sponsorship works, we are in fact giving the Fringe money while still doing voluntary work like keeping up this page". I suggest that that is considerably less than fully transparent. But yes, you're right, there's been some disclosure; I've changed "undisclosed" to "incompletely disclosed" in my post above.
Justlettersandnumbers (
talk) 20:55, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
- The first line of his userpage says "Employee at Ticketsource". That is sufficient disclosure. Whether he wants to make contradictory statements is beside the point; the disclosure has been made. Ticktsource (the organization) may be doing voluntary work for Cardiff Fringe; that's irrelevant. He's a paid employee, editing within his area of interest, as directed by his employer. ~ Anachronist ( talk) 21:06, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
- Not exactly,
Anachronist – the user has disclosed a connection, but at the same time seems to be trying to maintain that he is not a paid editor. See for example
"Those not familiar with how Sponsorship works, we are in fact giving the Fringe money while still doing voluntary work like keeping up this page". I suggest that that is considerably less than fully transparent. But yes, you're right, there's been some disclosure; I've changed "undisclosed" to "incompletely disclosed" in my post above.
Justlettersandnumbers (
talk) 20:55, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
- @
Justlettersandnumbers: The creator of the article properly discloses the employer, both in the username and on the user page. This isn't a case of an undisclosed paid editor.
- Delete. The editor shouldn't be publishing in main space. ~ Anachronist ( talk) 20:10, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
- Keep. - You can strip out the promotional and still have a short, concise page about a UK Charity that probably meets notability. No justification for a page that big. Not sure what the author's COI's has to do with anything. ChalkDrawings33 ( talk) 06:54, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. MT Train Talk 11:38, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United Kingdom-related deletion discussions. MT Train Talk 11:38, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
- Delete. Unambiguous advertising. ChalkDrawings33
, strip out the content and you're left with a
WP:NOTDIR which is still an advert.
Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (
talk) 10:53, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Sarahj2107 ( talk) 15:56, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
National Rural Touring Forum
- National Rural Touring Forum ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
This article was created by a representative of the event's ticket agency. All sources are churnalism, PR pieces reprinted uncritically. No evidence it meets WP:GNG. Aside: as part of its target audience, I have never even heard of it. Guy ( Help!) 18:01, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
- Delete, unambiguous advertising,
undisclosedincompletely disclosed paid editing in violation of our WP:Terms of Use. The paid editor has refused to make proper disclosure, but is apparently happy for us to know that he is the Wikipedia contact for any issues or questions for TicketSource Ltd.
- This appears to be exactly the sort of advertisement masquerading as something else ("... not identifiable as advertising to consumers ...", likely to "... mislead consumers into believing [it is] independent, impartial, or not from the sponsoring advertiser itself ...") that is considered "deceptive" – and thus illegal – in the United States under rules laid down by the Federal Trade Commission. Wikimedia projects are governed by American law. We do not tolerate promotion of any kind, and we certainly cannot tolerate promotion that may be illegal.
- Oh, and it does not come close to satisfying the requirements of
WP:NCORP.
Justlettersandnumbers (
talk) 19:29, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
- @
Justlettersandnumbers: The creator of the article properly discloses the employer, both in the username and on the user page. This isn't a case of an undisclosed paid editor.
- Not exactly,
Anachronist – the user has disclosed a connection, but at the same time seems to be trying to maintain that he is not a paid editor. See for example
"Those not familiar with how Sponsorship works, we are in fact giving the Fringe money while still doing voluntary work like keeping up this page". I suggest that that is considerably less than fully transparent. But yes, you're right, there's been some disclosure; I've changed "undisclosed" to "incompletely disclosed" in my post above.
Justlettersandnumbers (
talk) 20:55, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
- The first line of his userpage says "Employee at Ticketsource". That is sufficient disclosure. Whether he wants to make contradictory statements is beside the point; the disclosure has been made. Ticktsource (the organization) may be doing voluntary work for Cardiff Fringe; that's irrelevant. He's a paid employee, editing within his area of interest, as directed by his employer. ~ Anachronist ( talk) 21:06, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
- Not exactly,
Anachronist – the user has disclosed a connection, but at the same time seems to be trying to maintain that he is not a paid editor. See for example
"Those not familiar with how Sponsorship works, we are in fact giving the Fringe money while still doing voluntary work like keeping up this page". I suggest that that is considerably less than fully transparent. But yes, you're right, there's been some disclosure; I've changed "undisclosed" to "incompletely disclosed" in my post above.
Justlettersandnumbers (
talk) 20:55, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
- @
Justlettersandnumbers: The creator of the article properly discloses the employer, both in the username and on the user page. This isn't a case of an undisclosed paid editor.
- Delete. The editor shouldn't be publishing in main space. ~ Anachronist ( talk) 20:10, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
- Keep. - You can strip out the promotional and still have a short, concise page about a UK Charity that probably meets notability. No justification for a page that big. Not sure what the author's COI's has to do with anything. ChalkDrawings33 ( talk) 06:54, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. MT Train Talk 11:38, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United Kingdom-related deletion discussions. MT Train Talk 11:38, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
- Delete. Unambiguous advertising. ChalkDrawings33, strip out the content and you're left with a
WP:NOTDIR which is still an advert.
Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (
talk) 10:53, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.