The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Jo-Jo Eumerus ( talk) 08:41, 8 May 2020 (UTC) reply

Myth-o-Mania (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)

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Non-notable book series that fails WP:NBOOK. Mbdfar ( talk) 05:38, 1 May 2020 (UTC) reply

• Delete I can see reviews of other works by the same author, but nothing at all about this series or even individual books in it. Mccapra ( talk) 06:46, 1 May 2020 (UTC) Striking !vote per sources found below Mccapra ( talk) 12:30, 3 May 2020 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Literature-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU ^(T) 09:41, 1 May 2020 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU ^(T) 09:42, 1 May 2020 (UTC) reply

• Weak Delete - I can find a couple of short reviews on two of the individual books ("Hit the Road, Helen" in the Kirkus review, "Have a Hot Time, Hades" in Publisher's Weekely), and a couple of mentions of the series as a whole in some articles discussing books on classical antiquity written for children. But, overall, the coverage does not appear to be substantial enough to sustain an article or pass the WP:GNG. Rorshacma ( talk) 15:32, 1 May 2020 (UTC) reply

• Keep - The couple of individual reviews I found, in addition to the sources described by Cunard below, look to be enough to push this one past the WP:GNG. Revising my recommendation accordingly. Rorshacma ( talk) 16:39, 2 May 2020 (UTC) reply

• Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources.

  Wikipedia:Notability (books)#Criteria says:

  A book is notable if it verifiably meets, through reliable sources, at least one of the following criteria:

  1. The book has been the subject of two or more non-trivial published works appearing in sources that are independent of the book itself. This can include published works in all forms, such as newspaper articles, other books, television documentaries, bestseller lists, and reviews. This excludes media re-prints of press releases, flap copy, or other publications where the author, its publisher, agent, or other self-interested parties advertise or speak about the book.

  Here are sources:
  1. Murnaghan, Sheila (Spring 2011). "Classics for Cool Kids: Popular and Unpopular Versions of Antiquity for Children". Classical World. 104 (3): 345–347. JSTOR  41303435. Archived from the original on 2020-05-02. Retrieved 2020-05-02.
  2. Kazmierski, Sharon (Fall 2002). "The Clearing House". The Classical Outlook. 80 (1). American Classical League: 30–31. ISSN  0009-8361. JSTOR  43939630.
  3. Gallo, Don (July 2004). "Bold Books for Innovative Teaching: Summer Reading: 2004". The English Journal. 93 (6): 114–115. JSTOR  4128905.
  4. Murnaghan, Sheila; Roberts, Deborah H. (2017). "Myth Collections for Children". In Zajko, Vanda; Hoyle, Helena (eds.). A Handbook to the Reception of Classical Mythology. Hoboken, New Jersey: Wiley. p. 99. ISBN  978-1-4443-3960-4. Retrieved 2020-05-02.
  5. Kim, Suh Yoon (2018). "Representation of Greek Mythology in History Textbooks of Greek Primary schools". Journal of Literary Education (pdf). 2018 (1). University of Valencia: 157. doi: 10.7203/JLE.1.12268. Retrieved 2020-05-02.

  Sources with quotes

  Murnaghan, Sheila (Spring 2011). "Classics for Cool Kids: Popular and Unpopular Versions of Antiquity for Children". Classical World. 104 (3): 345–347. JSTOR  41303435. Archived from the original on 2020-05-02. Retrieved 2020-05-02. The article notes: The new classic status of myth collections, and the impulse to attack them in order to be popular, is well illustrated by the "Myth-O-Mania" books, a series for young readers (the recommended age range is 9-12) by Kate McMullan, published by Hyperion in 2002 and 2003, beginning with the first title, Have a Hot Time , Hades!, going through Phone Home, Persephone!, Keep a Lid on it, Pandora!, Stop That Bull, Theseus!, and others, to the final volume, Go For the Gold, Atalanta!. As these titles show, the tone of the books is jokey, and they derive much of their punch from the juxtaposition of classical figures with aggressively modern idioms and situations. As the titles also show, they are highly formulaic, which may explain why the series was relatively short-lived; nonetheless, their underlying premise is quite interesting. Each book is devoted to parodic debunking of a well-known Greek myth. The narrator is Hades, whose mission is to correct the lies of his little brother Zeus, whom he regularly characterizes as a "a total myth-o-manic," which is "old Greek-speak for 'big fat liar'" (v). Zeus spreads lies mostly for self-aggrandizement. ... ... Strikingly, Zeus' big fat lies are propagated in the form of a book: The Big Fat Book of Greek Myths. McMullan's appeal to her readers is based on the assumption that they will have already met the myths in their traditional form at an even younger age, in a compendium like that of the D'Aulaires, and that they view that compendium as somewhat tedious and overlong (as opposed to the Myth-O-Mania books, which come in at between 150 and 165 large-print pages) - or, if they do not view it that way, they will get a charge out of being given permission to do so now. McMullan's retold myths are in some ways subversive, as we like to think that popular literature is. August classical figures are put on a par with ordinary modern people through mundane details and deflating puns. For example, Persephone uses a cell phone and checks into the Motel Styx. And the conceit that canonical myths are shaped by Zeus' self-promoting agenda conveys a sophisticated sense of the vagaries of transmission and of the role of the victorious and powerful in determining the success of a given variant. [a paragraph providing analysis about Zeus' lies in the series] McMullan's designs on her child readers are confused and contradictory. She wants to hook them with a parodic, subversive, anti-authoritarian stance, but she does not really want to stimulate their imaginations through stories with truly challenging elements. And in the end, she reinforces the canonical myths she makes fun of, since the pleasure to be gained from her books depends on knowing the canonical versions and recognizing how they have been reworked. The Big Fat Book of Greek Myths is ultimately indispensable. McMullan's educational aims are lightly worn, but they surface in the back of the book with a glossary. Kazmierski, Sharon (Fall 2002). "The Clearing House". The Classical Outlook. 80 (1). American Classical League: 30–31. ISSN  0009-8361. JSTOR  43939630. The article notes: Mythomania or Even More for Middle Schoolers Kate McMullan has a nifty new series out entitled "Myth-O-Mania" that will definitely appeal to the middle school set. Be forewarned that Ms. McMullan is not Hamilton, Bulfinch, or D'Aulaire. The author herself admits that these books "are very silly," but then she also points out that when she taught sixth graders, they loved anything silly. Personally, I think the books are a hoot. The stories are told from the perspective of the long-suffering Hades, older brother of the mythomaniacal liar and cheat, Zeus, also known as the C.E.O. or "Chairgod of Everybody on Olympus." Hades has had it with all the lies told in the Big Fat Book of Mythology and has decided to set the story straight about his egotistical sibling. The first book in the series is Have a Hot Time, Hades and dishes out the dirt about how Zeus really became the Ruler of the Universe. There is a rather tongue-in-cheek chapter about the first Olympic games, in which Artemis, of course, competes in the archery competition, while Demeter has made weeding an official sport. There's plenty of quick moving action, including the climactic "kickstone" event between the Titans and Olympians. We also find out how Hades originally acquired Cerberus. The center of each book includes a perennial middle-school favorite, two trading cards of the gods, complete with stats. Each book includes a glossary, "King Hades' Quick and Easy Guide to the Myths," with accurate, albeit unorthodox, descriptions and definitions. Your students are bound to remember that Demeter was the goddess of agriculture when described as a "total gardening nut." (You will love the names of Hades' chariot steeds, by the way.) If you are a stickler for absolute accuracy, then this might not be the series for you or your students. However, if you have a good sense of humor and can deal with really bad puns, or if you  are trying to figure out how to motivate reluctant readers to enjoy mythology, then you'll want to take a look at these. "Myth-O-Mania" might even inspire your own students to rewrite classical myths from the perspective of different Olympians. Gallo, Don (July 2004). "Bold Books for Innovative Teaching: Summer Reading: 2004". The English Journal. 93 (6): 114–115. JSTOR  4128905. The article provides a few sentences of coverage: On a lighter note, if you teach Greek myths, you have to read at least one of the very short volumes in Kate McMullan's Myth-O-Mania series (New York: Volo). One of the most recent is Keep a Lid on It, Pandora! in which the boastful Hades (whose ego is as big as the world) sets the record straight about Pandora and the box she couldn't resist opening. Much fun. Murnaghan, Sheila; Roberts, Deborah H. (2017). "Myth Collections for Children". In Zajko, Vanda; Hoyle, Helena (eds.). A Handbook to the Reception of Classical Mythology. Hoboken, New Jersey: Wiley. p. 99. ISBN  978-1-4443-3960-4. Retrieved 2020-05-02. The book provides a paragraph of coverage: Kate McMullan's "Myth‐o‐mania" books, which appeared in 2002 and 2003, convert familiar myths into up‐to‐date versions that respond to contemporary concerns: the Minotaur is no monster, but a gentle misfit who practices vegetarianism (McMullan 2003); Persephone uses a cell phone and checks into the Motel Styx, and she was never abducted by Pluto, who only helped her escape her overprotective mother (McMullan 2002). These revisions are presented not as primary narratives, but as corrections of false stories promulgated by a self-regarding Zeus in The Big Fast Book of Greek Myths. By the early twenty-first century, the children's myth collection has become so established a form that it turns to self-parody in order to provide its child audience with a fresh experience of the pleasures of classical mythology. Kim, Suh Yoon (2018). "Representation of Greek Mythology in History Textbooks of Greek Primary schools". Journal of Literary Education (pdf). 2018 (1). University of Valencia: 157. doi: 10.7203/JLE.1.12268. Retrieved 2020-05-02. The article provides a few sentences of coverage: Being from a foreign country, I am also interested in comparing the way Greek mythology is taught to children between Greece and other countries. So far, the main difference is that heroes play a key role in Greece. In other countries, series books about Greek mythology mostly deal with gods and goddess, instead of heroes. For example, in America, Kate McMullan’s famous series book Myth-O-Mania (2002) is focused on the conflict between Hades and Zeus. Gods and monsters including Cupid, Medusa, Persephone also come into the spotlight. The stories of Theseus and Hercules are told, but they are not depicted as great heroes. In this retelling, Hades reminds (them) of their…. quest and helps them complete it. In Percy Jackson series (2002~) by Rick Riordan, the main characters are the Olympian gods living in modern world.

  There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Myth-O-Mania to pass Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".

  Cunard ( talk) 10:53, 2 May 2020 (UTC) reply

• The two sources that provide substantial coverage of Myth-O-Mania are from two journals: Classical World and American Classical League's The Classical Outlook. Cunard ( talk) 10:53, 2 May 2020 (UTC) reply

• KEEP Cunard found sources. Dream Focus 19:14, 2 May 2020 (UTC) reply

• Keep – Per a source review and Cunard's WP:BEFORE source work, meets WP:BOOKCRIT. North America ¹⁰⁰⁰ 03:55, 8 May 2020 (UTC) reply

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.