- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was redirect to List of dams in Tottori Prefecture. No prejudice against a continuing discussion on whether the list is notable, but that's beyond the scope of this AFD. Mojo Hand ( talk) 01:16, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
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- Misasa Dam ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
One Source, is a Stub, & WP:BEFORE found nothing. 😎😎PaulGamerBoy360😎😎 ( talk) 00:53, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Architecture, Geography, and Japan. 😎😎PaulGamerBoy360😎😎 ( talk) 00:53, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
- Keep. The database maintained by The Japan Dam Foundation is the equivalent of an encyclopedia of dams. There's nothing wrong with a stub.
Eastmain (
talk •
contribs)
01:35, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
- No, it's a database with bare statistics, not an encyclopedia. And there's nothing wrong with a stub when the topic is notable, but stubs for non-notable topics shouldn't stay either.
35.139.154.158 (
talk)
02:09, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
- @ Eastmain Plus, who on earth are the Japan Dam Foundation? I don't see any reason to consider them a reliable source. FOARP ( talk) 11:28, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
- No, it's a database with bare statistics, not an encyclopedia. And there's nothing wrong with a stub when the topic is notable, but stubs for non-notable topics shouldn't stay either.
35.139.154.158 (
talk)
02:09, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
- Delete, as a GNG failure. To the nominator, note that simply being a one-sentence stub with one source isn't really a reason to delete, as such topics can still be notable. Per
WP:NBUILDING,
"Artificial features related to infrastructure (for example, bridges and dams) can be notable under Wikipedia's GNG."
However, I can find no sources to get over the GNG bar. The one in the article is simply from a database with a little bit of bare statistics, and I don't really see anything else beyond that, even searching for the Japanese name. 35.139.154.158 ( talk) 02:09, 30 October 2023 (UTC)- Its just a bad habit of mine to put in the size of the article. 😎😎PaulGamerBoy360😎😎 ( talk) 02:41, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
- Comment. There appear to be hundreds, if not more, of these sub-stubs on Japanese dams. They appear to have been automatically created and all use the same source. While I'm sure there are a handful of notable entries in here, the vast majority of these probably fall under the same umbrella as this one. A wider RFC on their mass deletion could be called for here.
35.139.154.158 (
talk)
02:22, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
- How do you do that?
😎😎PaulGamerBoy360😎😎 (
talk)
02:42, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
- Bundled deletion per WP:BUNDLE. FOARP ( talk) 11:29, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
- How do you do that?
😎😎PaulGamerBoy360😎😎 (
talk)
02:42, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
- Redirect to List of dams in Tottori Prefecture as WP:ATD. Jumpytoo Talk 04:21, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
- Creator Nirmaljoshi has previously been notified and asked not to create these stubs. See also Wikipedia:Bots/Noticeboard/Archive 17#Dams articles. Many of these have been sent to AfD and the result has generally been "redirect to list article" — Martin ( MSGJ · talk) 07:44, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
- Delete and do not redirect. That this fails
WP:GNG is well argued above. People arguing for redirection to a list article need to show that the topic "list of dams in [district]" passes
WP:LISTN, because I don't see any evidence that it does. If we're doing this for navigation, then we need to link to pages we have articles on, and exclude the ones that don't have articles.
FOARP (
talk)
11:32, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
- A list of dams in Japan article was AfDed last year and it was overwhelmingly kept:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of dams in Fukui Prefecture. Even if my proposed target fails an AfD, the most likely case is to merge back up to it's parent
List of dams in Japan, in which case the
WP:DOUBLEREDIRECT gets automatically fixed by bots.
Jumpytoo
Talk
19:36, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
- That's a bit disingenuous. It seems like that AFD was focused on a particular usage of Wikidata entries and nothing else. Notability wasn't examined, which is the complaint here. 35.139.154.158 ( talk) 17:48, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
- A list of dams in Japan article was AfDed last year and it was overwhelmingly kept:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of dams in Fukui Prefecture. Even if my proposed target fails an AfD, the most likely case is to merge back up to it's parent
List of dams in Japan, in which case the
WP:DOUBLEREDIRECT gets automatically fixed by bots.
Jumpytoo
Talk
19:36, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
- Redirect to
List of dams in Tottori Prefecture per
User:Jumpytoo. The list passing NLIST or not is a different matter and nobody seems to have raised the issue on that list talk page. It is also long standing, so it could be assumed for now that it does. As others have pointed out, this seems to be the way articles created by this particular creator has gone as well.
Fermiboson (
talk)
13:25, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
The list passing NLIST or not is a different matter
- there's no point creating and adding to non-notable list-pages that can also be deleted. Pointing to no problems having been raised so far and the page being around for a long time is neither here nor there - these are both considered fallacies here at AFD (see WP:LONGTIME). Does any reliable source consider lists of dams in Tottori Prefecture to be a notable subject? FOARP ( talk) 14:50, 30 October 2023 (UTC)Lists that fulfill recognized informational, navigation, or development purposes often are kept regardless of any demonstrated notability.
The last existing consensus on the subject per the bots noticeboard link above is that redirect to list is the thing to do though of course you are welcome to try and overturn that at the talk page of the list or other relevant venue. I think you would be very hard pressed to find RS specifically about a collection of dams in any place. Fermiboson ( talk) 21:41, 30 October 2023 (UTC)- The last point means we shouldn’t have this list because it won’t pass WP:LISTN, since no-one ever gave any significant coverage to it. This list won’t serve a navigational purpose since none of these are articles, nor can they be developed, and Wikipedia does not host WP:IINFO. FOARP ( talk) 05:28, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
- Redirect to List of dams in Tottori Prefecture per Jumpytoo. Rusty4321 talk contribs 01:04, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
- Delete, no redirect - Fails GNG and LISTN. We shouldn't be indiscriminately creating articles or even lists for every tiny dam in the database. – dlthewave ☎ 15:58, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was redirect to List of dams in Tottori Prefecture. No prejudice against a continuing discussion on whether the list is notable, but that's beyond the scope of this AFD. Mojo Hand ( talk) 01:16, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Misasa Dam ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
One Source, is a Stub, & WP:BEFORE found nothing. 😎😎PaulGamerBoy360😎😎 ( talk) 00:53, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Architecture, Geography, and Japan. 😎😎PaulGamerBoy360😎😎 ( talk) 00:53, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
- Keep. The database maintained by The Japan Dam Foundation is the equivalent of an encyclopedia of dams. There's nothing wrong with a stub.
Eastmain (
talk •
contribs)
01:35, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
- No, it's a database with bare statistics, not an encyclopedia. And there's nothing wrong with a stub when the topic is notable, but stubs for non-notable topics shouldn't stay either.
35.139.154.158 (
talk)
02:09, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
- @ Eastmain Plus, who on earth are the Japan Dam Foundation? I don't see any reason to consider them a reliable source. FOARP ( talk) 11:28, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
- No, it's a database with bare statistics, not an encyclopedia. And there's nothing wrong with a stub when the topic is notable, but stubs for non-notable topics shouldn't stay either.
35.139.154.158 (
talk)
02:09, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
- Delete, as a GNG failure. To the nominator, note that simply being a one-sentence stub with one source isn't really a reason to delete, as such topics can still be notable. Per
WP:NBUILDING,
"Artificial features related to infrastructure (for example, bridges and dams) can be notable under Wikipedia's GNG."
However, I can find no sources to get over the GNG bar. The one in the article is simply from a database with a little bit of bare statistics, and I don't really see anything else beyond that, even searching for the Japanese name. 35.139.154.158 ( talk) 02:09, 30 October 2023 (UTC)- Its just a bad habit of mine to put in the size of the article. 😎😎PaulGamerBoy360😎😎 ( talk) 02:41, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
- Comment. There appear to be hundreds, if not more, of these sub-stubs on Japanese dams. They appear to have been automatically created and all use the same source. While I'm sure there are a handful of notable entries in here, the vast majority of these probably fall under the same umbrella as this one. A wider RFC on their mass deletion could be called for here.
35.139.154.158 (
talk)
02:22, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
- How do you do that?
😎😎PaulGamerBoy360😎😎 (
talk)
02:42, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
- Bundled deletion per WP:BUNDLE. FOARP ( talk) 11:29, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
- How do you do that?
😎😎PaulGamerBoy360😎😎 (
talk)
02:42, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
- Redirect to List of dams in Tottori Prefecture as WP:ATD. Jumpytoo Talk 04:21, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
- Creator Nirmaljoshi has previously been notified and asked not to create these stubs. See also Wikipedia:Bots/Noticeboard/Archive 17#Dams articles. Many of these have been sent to AfD and the result has generally been "redirect to list article" — Martin ( MSGJ · talk) 07:44, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
- Delete and do not redirect. That this fails
WP:GNG is well argued above. People arguing for redirection to a list article need to show that the topic "list of dams in [district]" passes
WP:LISTN, because I don't see any evidence that it does. If we're doing this for navigation, then we need to link to pages we have articles on, and exclude the ones that don't have articles.
FOARP (
talk)
11:32, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
- A list of dams in Japan article was AfDed last year and it was overwhelmingly kept:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of dams in Fukui Prefecture. Even if my proposed target fails an AfD, the most likely case is to merge back up to it's parent
List of dams in Japan, in which case the
WP:DOUBLEREDIRECT gets automatically fixed by bots.
Jumpytoo
Talk
19:36, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
- That's a bit disingenuous. It seems like that AFD was focused on a particular usage of Wikidata entries and nothing else. Notability wasn't examined, which is the complaint here. 35.139.154.158 ( talk) 17:48, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
- A list of dams in Japan article was AfDed last year and it was overwhelmingly kept:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of dams in Fukui Prefecture. Even if my proposed target fails an AfD, the most likely case is to merge back up to it's parent
List of dams in Japan, in which case the
WP:DOUBLEREDIRECT gets automatically fixed by bots.
Jumpytoo
Talk
19:36, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
- Redirect to
List of dams in Tottori Prefecture per
User:Jumpytoo. The list passing NLIST or not is a different matter and nobody seems to have raised the issue on that list talk page. It is also long standing, so it could be assumed for now that it does. As others have pointed out, this seems to be the way articles created by this particular creator has gone as well.
Fermiboson (
talk)
13:25, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
The list passing NLIST or not is a different matter
- there's no point creating and adding to non-notable list-pages that can also be deleted. Pointing to no problems having been raised so far and the page being around for a long time is neither here nor there - these are both considered fallacies here at AFD (see WP:LONGTIME). Does any reliable source consider lists of dams in Tottori Prefecture to be a notable subject? FOARP ( talk) 14:50, 30 October 2023 (UTC)Lists that fulfill recognized informational, navigation, or development purposes often are kept regardless of any demonstrated notability.
The last existing consensus on the subject per the bots noticeboard link above is that redirect to list is the thing to do though of course you are welcome to try and overturn that at the talk page of the list or other relevant venue. I think you would be very hard pressed to find RS specifically about a collection of dams in any place. Fermiboson ( talk) 21:41, 30 October 2023 (UTC)- The last point means we shouldn’t have this list because it won’t pass WP:LISTN, since no-one ever gave any significant coverage to it. This list won’t serve a navigational purpose since none of these are articles, nor can they be developed, and Wikipedia does not host WP:IINFO. FOARP ( talk) 05:28, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
- Redirect to List of dams in Tottori Prefecture per Jumpytoo. Rusty4321 talk contribs 01:04, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
- Delete, no redirect - Fails GNG and LISTN. We shouldn't be indiscriminately creating articles or even lists for every tiny dam in the database. – dlthewave ☎ 15:58, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.