- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Missvain ( talk) 00:46, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Misaki Amano ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Evidence seems to suggest that she fails WP:GNG and WP:NFOOTBALL. Called up to the national team but it doesn't look like she ever played. A WP:BEFORE search was made difficult as there seems to be an anime character with the exact same name. Spiderone 14:26, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Spiderone 14:26, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. Spiderone 14:26, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Japan-related deletion discussions. Spiderone 14:26, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Spiderone 14:26, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Spiderone 14:29, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
- I can't support a keep !vote at this time but I don't support deletion - every single player at the 2007 FIFA Women's World Cup has an article at the moment, which is probably correct. I'd like to make sure she wasn't covered in Japanese media before deleting her article. SportingFlyer T· C 15:41, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
- Yeah, it's certainly hard to imagine someone being called up to a WC squad without being able to pass GNG. I did also take note of the fact that she has Wikipedia articles in multiple languages. Other than
this, I couldn't see more than a passing mention anywhere else, though. Of course, I will reconsider if more sources are found. Maybe I've completely missed sources in my BEFORE search or maybe she is the exception that proves the rule.
Spiderone
16:01, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
- Did you do a Japanese language search? I'm getting a relatively decent number of hits, but I can't tell what's sigcov.
SportingFlyer
T·
C
16:08, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
- Yes, but only looked at the first 3 pages on Google, Google News and Google Images. She is mentioned here as third placed goalkeeper in a vote. This seems to make a suggestion that she might have played for Japan in 2008. Ideally, we would need something more conclusive than that and I'm not sure how reliable that source is anyway. The search is littered with namesakes like this. Spiderone 17:02, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
- Did you do a Japanese language search? I'm getting a relatively decent number of hits, but I can't tell what's sigcov.
SportingFlyer
T·
C
16:08, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
- Yeah, it's certainly hard to imagine someone being called up to a WC squad without being able to pass GNG. I did also take note of the fact that she has Wikipedia articles in multiple languages. Other than
this, I couldn't see more than a passing mention anywhere else, though. Of course, I will reconsider if more sources are found. Maybe I've completely missed sources in my BEFORE search or maybe she is the exception that proves the rule.
Spiderone
16:01, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
- Delete - fails GNG and NFOOTBALL. We've deleted male players who were squad members at major tournaments before. If sources can be found then ping me. Giant Snowman 16:38, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
- Delete per WP:NFOOTY failure. Number 5 7 21:11, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Missvain ( talk) 15:29, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Missvain ( talk) 15:29, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
- @
Missvain: why has this been re-listed please?
Giant
Snowman
17:43, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
- Sounds like
User:Spiderone and
SportingFlyer might be onto something. So, just letting it play out one more week. Can't hurt.
Missvain (
talk)
17:56, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
- Sounds like
User:Spiderone and
SportingFlyer might be onto something. So, just letting it play out one more week. Can't hurt.
- Keep: Per WP:SPORTCRIT, a player is considered notable if they have "participated in a major international amateur or professional competition at the highest level." This certainly includes FIFA Women's World Cup. Seany91 ( talk) 15:15, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
- Comment - you only participate if you play. She has not and so does not pass sportcrit. Fenix down ( talk) 15:34, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
- We're seriously saying that a player who made a senior World Cup roster did not "participate" in that competition? That goes against all SID conventions; for winning teams, e.g., you would've gotten a medal even if you hadn't played.
Seany91 (
talk)
16:48, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
- Participation would imply playing. In the same way, you don't pass
WP:NFOOTBALL for just being on the bench during an international senior fixture. You need to actually play in a match to pass the guideline. The article clearly states that she was the 3rd choice goalkeeper so it's highly likely that she was not even on the bench.
Spiderone
19:08, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
-
WP:NFOOTY has the verb "play";
WP:SPORTCRIT has the verb "participate". Those are two different words, and the implication you drew is subjective. Furthermore,
WP:SPORTCRIT was developed for "presuming notability." Why wouldn't we presume that someone who's made a senior World Cup roster to be notable?
Seany91 (
talk)
20:32, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
- It clearly says at the top of SPORTCRIT Please note that the failure to meet these criteria does not mean an article must be deleted; conversely, meeting of any of these criteria does not mean that an article must be kept. There is no necessity for this article to be kept just because they happened to be named in a major tournament squad. It also says This guideline is used to help evaluate whether or not a sports person or sports league/organization (amateur or professional) is likely to meet the general notability guideline (i.e.
WP:GNG). Have you got any evidence that Amano passes GNG? I see no reason to keep an article on someone who clearly fails GNG and NFOOTBALL and only passes a very loose interpretation of SPORTCRIT
Spiderone
20:46, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
- And my point still remains: if someone who made a senior World Cup roster can be presumed not notable, then your understanding of notability is clearly out of whack. Seany91 ( talk) 12:27, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
- It clearly says at the top of SPORTCRIT Please note that the failure to meet these criteria does not mean an article must be deleted; conversely, meeting of any of these criteria does not mean that an article must be kept. There is no necessity for this article to be kept just because they happened to be named in a major tournament squad. It also says This guideline is used to help evaluate whether or not a sports person or sports league/organization (amateur or professional) is likely to meet the general notability guideline (i.e.
WP:GNG). Have you got any evidence that Amano passes GNG? I see no reason to keep an article on someone who clearly fails GNG and NFOOTBALL and only passes a very loose interpretation of SPORTCRIT
Spiderone
20:46, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
-
WP:NFOOTY has the verb "play";
WP:SPORTCRIT has the verb "participate". Those are two different words, and the implication you drew is subjective. Furthermore,
WP:SPORTCRIT was developed for "presuming notability." Why wouldn't we presume that someone who's made a senior World Cup roster to be notable?
Seany91 (
talk)
20:32, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
- Participation would imply playing. In the same way, you don't pass
WP:NFOOTBALL for just being on the bench during an international senior fixture. You need to actually play in a match to pass the guideline. The article clearly states that she was the 3rd choice goalkeeper so it's highly likely that she was not even on the bench.
Spiderone
19:08, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
- Delete any sport criteria that allows someone to be considered notable without playing in a game is clearly wrongheaded, should not be used to keep articles, and need to be rewritten. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 20:36, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
- Delete: Didn't play, so fails. Muur ( talk) 02:17, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Missvain ( talk) 00:46, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Misaki Amano ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Evidence seems to suggest that she fails WP:GNG and WP:NFOOTBALL. Called up to the national team but it doesn't look like she ever played. A WP:BEFORE search was made difficult as there seems to be an anime character with the exact same name. Spiderone 14:26, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Spiderone 14:26, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. Spiderone 14:26, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Japan-related deletion discussions. Spiderone 14:26, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Spiderone 14:26, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Spiderone 14:29, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
- I can't support a keep !vote at this time but I don't support deletion - every single player at the 2007 FIFA Women's World Cup has an article at the moment, which is probably correct. I'd like to make sure she wasn't covered in Japanese media before deleting her article. SportingFlyer T· C 15:41, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
- Yeah, it's certainly hard to imagine someone being called up to a WC squad without being able to pass GNG. I did also take note of the fact that she has Wikipedia articles in multiple languages. Other than
this, I couldn't see more than a passing mention anywhere else, though. Of course, I will reconsider if more sources are found. Maybe I've completely missed sources in my BEFORE search or maybe she is the exception that proves the rule.
Spiderone
16:01, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
- Did you do a Japanese language search? I'm getting a relatively decent number of hits, but I can't tell what's sigcov.
SportingFlyer
T·
C
16:08, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
- Yes, but only looked at the first 3 pages on Google, Google News and Google Images. She is mentioned here as third placed goalkeeper in a vote. This seems to make a suggestion that she might have played for Japan in 2008. Ideally, we would need something more conclusive than that and I'm not sure how reliable that source is anyway. The search is littered with namesakes like this. Spiderone 17:02, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
- Did you do a Japanese language search? I'm getting a relatively decent number of hits, but I can't tell what's sigcov.
SportingFlyer
T·
C
16:08, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
- Yeah, it's certainly hard to imagine someone being called up to a WC squad without being able to pass GNG. I did also take note of the fact that she has Wikipedia articles in multiple languages. Other than
this, I couldn't see more than a passing mention anywhere else, though. Of course, I will reconsider if more sources are found. Maybe I've completely missed sources in my BEFORE search or maybe she is the exception that proves the rule.
Spiderone
16:01, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
- Delete - fails GNG and NFOOTBALL. We've deleted male players who were squad members at major tournaments before. If sources can be found then ping me. Giant Snowman 16:38, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
- Delete per WP:NFOOTY failure. Number 5 7 21:11, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Missvain ( talk) 15:29, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Missvain ( talk) 15:29, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
- @
Missvain: why has this been re-listed please?
Giant
Snowman
17:43, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
- Sounds like
User:Spiderone and
SportingFlyer might be onto something. So, just letting it play out one more week. Can't hurt.
Missvain (
talk)
17:56, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
- Sounds like
User:Spiderone and
SportingFlyer might be onto something. So, just letting it play out one more week. Can't hurt.
- Keep: Per WP:SPORTCRIT, a player is considered notable if they have "participated in a major international amateur or professional competition at the highest level." This certainly includes FIFA Women's World Cup. Seany91 ( talk) 15:15, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
- Comment - you only participate if you play. She has not and so does not pass sportcrit. Fenix down ( talk) 15:34, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
- We're seriously saying that a player who made a senior World Cup roster did not "participate" in that competition? That goes against all SID conventions; for winning teams, e.g., you would've gotten a medal even if you hadn't played.
Seany91 (
talk)
16:48, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
- Participation would imply playing. In the same way, you don't pass
WP:NFOOTBALL for just being on the bench during an international senior fixture. You need to actually play in a match to pass the guideline. The article clearly states that she was the 3rd choice goalkeeper so it's highly likely that she was not even on the bench.
Spiderone
19:08, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
-
WP:NFOOTY has the verb "play";
WP:SPORTCRIT has the verb "participate". Those are two different words, and the implication you drew is subjective. Furthermore,
WP:SPORTCRIT was developed for "presuming notability." Why wouldn't we presume that someone who's made a senior World Cup roster to be notable?
Seany91 (
talk)
20:32, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
- It clearly says at the top of SPORTCRIT Please note that the failure to meet these criteria does not mean an article must be deleted; conversely, meeting of any of these criteria does not mean that an article must be kept. There is no necessity for this article to be kept just because they happened to be named in a major tournament squad. It also says This guideline is used to help evaluate whether or not a sports person or sports league/organization (amateur or professional) is likely to meet the general notability guideline (i.e.
WP:GNG). Have you got any evidence that Amano passes GNG? I see no reason to keep an article on someone who clearly fails GNG and NFOOTBALL and only passes a very loose interpretation of SPORTCRIT
Spiderone
20:46, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
- And my point still remains: if someone who made a senior World Cup roster can be presumed not notable, then your understanding of notability is clearly out of whack. Seany91 ( talk) 12:27, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
- It clearly says at the top of SPORTCRIT Please note that the failure to meet these criteria does not mean an article must be deleted; conversely, meeting of any of these criteria does not mean that an article must be kept. There is no necessity for this article to be kept just because they happened to be named in a major tournament squad. It also says This guideline is used to help evaluate whether or not a sports person or sports league/organization (amateur or professional) is likely to meet the general notability guideline (i.e.
WP:GNG). Have you got any evidence that Amano passes GNG? I see no reason to keep an article on someone who clearly fails GNG and NFOOTBALL and only passes a very loose interpretation of SPORTCRIT
Spiderone
20:46, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
-
WP:NFOOTY has the verb "play";
WP:SPORTCRIT has the verb "participate". Those are two different words, and the implication you drew is subjective. Furthermore,
WP:SPORTCRIT was developed for "presuming notability." Why wouldn't we presume that someone who's made a senior World Cup roster to be notable?
Seany91 (
talk)
20:32, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
- Participation would imply playing. In the same way, you don't pass
WP:NFOOTBALL for just being on the bench during an international senior fixture. You need to actually play in a match to pass the guideline. The article clearly states that she was the 3rd choice goalkeeper so it's highly likely that she was not even on the bench.
Spiderone
19:08, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
- Delete any sport criteria that allows someone to be considered notable without playing in a game is clearly wrongheaded, should not be used to keep articles, and need to be rewritten. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 20:36, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
- Delete: Didn't play, so fails. Muur ( talk) 02:17, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.