- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Consensus is that the article should be kept as it meets the notability guidelines. Kudpung's advice is good for the subject of the article. Davewild ( talk) 07:16, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
Mike Johnson (yodeler)
- Mike Johnson (yodeler) ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
This is a neutral and procedural nomination made on behalf of the contributing editor, who has requested on his talk page that this be deleted. He is, however, not the only contributor, so speedy deletion as originator is closed to him. The draft he created was accepted at WP:AFC, and much of the unrerefenced (and much desired by him) facts were stripped out. He now wishes those alleged facts to be reinstated or the article to be deleted.
I will record my own opinion below in due course. I am simply making this nomination on his behalf since he expresses the desire strongly but appears to be unaware of how to proceed
It has been explained to him that it is unlikely to be deleted because the gentleman is notable. Fiddle Faddle 22:52, 11 July 2015 (UTC)
- Keep After studying the plaudits and accolades given to the gentleman there is more that sufficient for keeping this article being a no brainer. He passes the criteria for notability. He is a public figure and well known in his musical genre. We should not delete based on the whim of an editor who wishes to exert WP:OWN over this article. Fiddle Faddle 23:47, 11 July 2015 (UTC)
- Keep, meets Notability easily as a relatively unique performer who's attracted national-level attention as an African-American country music yodeler. Subject is a public figure, so I don't agree with deleting the article simply because he's not pleased with our removing unsourced/POV content that he wishes to have included. MatthewVanitas ( talk) 00:04, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. — JJMC89 ( T· E· C) 16:36, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
Delete (opining as a proxy for the initial contributing editor) It is abundantly clear everywhere except in this discussion, that the original editor and the subject of this autobiography wishes to delete the material. He has placed this information on user talk pages, though not with a rationale other than not being happy with the content of the current article. I am thus recording this opinion here without copying and pasting the material, and in the interests of completeness. Should that editor post here then this proxy deletion !vote is irrelevant and may be struck by any editor without reference to me and must be disregarded by the closing admin. Fiddle Faddle 17:30, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Virginia-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 13:55, 14 July 2015 (UTC)
Yes, I definitely want the article deleted if you insist on using the butchered result currently posted. I submitted a 3-page piece which MatthewVanitis edited and it looked good. However, his final edit, an approximate 10-word piece is an extreme butchering that in no way gives your readers an insight into my ‘country music’ credentials. Especially when I look at other artists’ Wikipedia coverage, I consider this an insult!
Notability be damned. You have a chance to get it right even in Matthew’s brief passage, yet your arrogant stance of
“So while we of course recognize that in the larger world, accuracy is the goal, on an encyclopedia our concern is how documentable a fact is…”
I believe legitimate encyclopedias are concerned with accuracy, the very reason most people use them.
“So on a certain level, we literally don't care whether a fact in Plantenga's book or in a Washington Post article is completely accurate, we care that it's clearly documented. I find this position arrogant. Especially when informed by the source the documented information is wrong.
“Whereas if you make "corrections" based on your personal knowledge, that just makes the article weaker because each such edit decreases its Verifiability.” Nonsense. My music archives contains hundreds of supporting documents and photographs. Where do you think these ‘writers’ get their information?
MatthewVanitis’ final edit and post: Mike Johnson (born 1946) is an African-American country music singer, songwriter, and yodeler living in Arlington, Virginia. Raised in a Catholic family in Washington, DC, Johnson began yodeling in the 1950s, influenced by the music of Jimmie Rodgers, Gene Autry, and Roy Rogers, and by the "Tarzan yell" of actor Johnny Weissmuller.[1] Johnson served in the US Navy in the Vietnam War from 1967 to 1969, and later became a truck driver,[2] first recording his music in 1981 and selling the homemade tapes at a Union 76 gas station in Alabama.[3] Johnson founded Pata del Lobo Music publishing in 1982, and Roughshod Records in 1987.[3]
Bart’s presentation erroneously implies that I started recording homemade tapes at home and releasing them. “…first recording his music in 1981 and selling the homemade tapes at a Union 76 gas station…”
My first release was a 45rpm record resulting from a 5-song recording session in Nashville Tennessee. You don’t do homemade releases in a studio! In 1983 I produced one homemade cassette and it was never sold in any gas station. In 1986 I released a Nashville recorded and produced cassette which was also sold at the Union 76 Truck Stop in Montgomery, Alabama, and about 10 other truck stops around the country. The inclusion of Nashville is a very important distinction when dealing with country artists. I have never been known as the “No.1 Black Yodelin’ Trucker.”
If you can’t go with these minor changes below, delete everything. I’m not that desperate to be on your site. “Mike Johnson (born 1946) is an African-American country music singer, songwriter, yodeler, living in Arlington, Virginia, and most famously known as Country Music’s No.1 Black Yodeler. Raised in a Catholic family in Washington, DC, Johnson began yodeling in the 1950s, influenced by the music of Jimmie Rodgers, Gene Autry, and Roy Rogers, and by the “Tarzan yell” of actor Johnny Weissmuller. Johnson served in the US Navy in the Vietnam War from 1967 to 1969. He went to Nashville in 1981 for his first recording session and released a 45 rpm single. Johnson founded Pata del Lobo Music publishing in 1982 and Roughshod Records in 1987. The label released its 49th and 50th CDs in November 2014.” — Preceding unsigned comment added by Black Yodel No.1 ( talk • contribs) 22:10, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
- Comment I have struck my proxy !vote to delete since the contributing editor has now offered his opinion here. Fiddle Faddle 22:27, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
- Keep - YouTube is not a source and one claim needs sourcing but apart from that the subject is clearly notable. People don't decide whether Wikipedia articles about them should be kept or deleted but we shouldn't be including content that is not sourced to a publicly available WP:R. If anything is grossly inacurate or libelous they should go to Wikipedia:Contact us - Subjects. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง ( talk) 16:26, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Consensus is that the article should be kept as it meets the notability guidelines. Kudpung's advice is good for the subject of the article. Davewild ( talk) 07:16, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
Mike Johnson (yodeler)
- Mike Johnson (yodeler) ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
This is a neutral and procedural nomination made on behalf of the contributing editor, who has requested on his talk page that this be deleted. He is, however, not the only contributor, so speedy deletion as originator is closed to him. The draft he created was accepted at WP:AFC, and much of the unrerefenced (and much desired by him) facts were stripped out. He now wishes those alleged facts to be reinstated or the article to be deleted.
I will record my own opinion below in due course. I am simply making this nomination on his behalf since he expresses the desire strongly but appears to be unaware of how to proceed
It has been explained to him that it is unlikely to be deleted because the gentleman is notable. Fiddle Faddle 22:52, 11 July 2015 (UTC)
- Keep After studying the plaudits and accolades given to the gentleman there is more that sufficient for keeping this article being a no brainer. He passes the criteria for notability. He is a public figure and well known in his musical genre. We should not delete based on the whim of an editor who wishes to exert WP:OWN over this article. Fiddle Faddle 23:47, 11 July 2015 (UTC)
- Keep, meets Notability easily as a relatively unique performer who's attracted national-level attention as an African-American country music yodeler. Subject is a public figure, so I don't agree with deleting the article simply because he's not pleased with our removing unsourced/POV content that he wishes to have included. MatthewVanitas ( talk) 00:04, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. — JJMC89 ( T· E· C) 16:36, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
Delete (opining as a proxy for the initial contributing editor) It is abundantly clear everywhere except in this discussion, that the original editor and the subject of this autobiography wishes to delete the material. He has placed this information on user talk pages, though not with a rationale other than not being happy with the content of the current article. I am thus recording this opinion here without copying and pasting the material, and in the interests of completeness. Should that editor post here then this proxy deletion !vote is irrelevant and may be struck by any editor without reference to me and must be disregarded by the closing admin. Fiddle Faddle 17:30, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Virginia-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 13:55, 14 July 2015 (UTC)
Yes, I definitely want the article deleted if you insist on using the butchered result currently posted. I submitted a 3-page piece which MatthewVanitis edited and it looked good. However, his final edit, an approximate 10-word piece is an extreme butchering that in no way gives your readers an insight into my ‘country music’ credentials. Especially when I look at other artists’ Wikipedia coverage, I consider this an insult!
Notability be damned. You have a chance to get it right even in Matthew’s brief passage, yet your arrogant stance of
“So while we of course recognize that in the larger world, accuracy is the goal, on an encyclopedia our concern is how documentable a fact is…”
I believe legitimate encyclopedias are concerned with accuracy, the very reason most people use them.
“So on a certain level, we literally don't care whether a fact in Plantenga's book or in a Washington Post article is completely accurate, we care that it's clearly documented. I find this position arrogant. Especially when informed by the source the documented information is wrong.
“Whereas if you make "corrections" based on your personal knowledge, that just makes the article weaker because each such edit decreases its Verifiability.” Nonsense. My music archives contains hundreds of supporting documents and photographs. Where do you think these ‘writers’ get their information?
MatthewVanitis’ final edit and post: Mike Johnson (born 1946) is an African-American country music singer, songwriter, and yodeler living in Arlington, Virginia. Raised in a Catholic family in Washington, DC, Johnson began yodeling in the 1950s, influenced by the music of Jimmie Rodgers, Gene Autry, and Roy Rogers, and by the "Tarzan yell" of actor Johnny Weissmuller.[1] Johnson served in the US Navy in the Vietnam War from 1967 to 1969, and later became a truck driver,[2] first recording his music in 1981 and selling the homemade tapes at a Union 76 gas station in Alabama.[3] Johnson founded Pata del Lobo Music publishing in 1982, and Roughshod Records in 1987.[3]
Bart’s presentation erroneously implies that I started recording homemade tapes at home and releasing them. “…first recording his music in 1981 and selling the homemade tapes at a Union 76 gas station…”
My first release was a 45rpm record resulting from a 5-song recording session in Nashville Tennessee. You don’t do homemade releases in a studio! In 1983 I produced one homemade cassette and it was never sold in any gas station. In 1986 I released a Nashville recorded and produced cassette which was also sold at the Union 76 Truck Stop in Montgomery, Alabama, and about 10 other truck stops around the country. The inclusion of Nashville is a very important distinction when dealing with country artists. I have never been known as the “No.1 Black Yodelin’ Trucker.”
If you can’t go with these minor changes below, delete everything. I’m not that desperate to be on your site. “Mike Johnson (born 1946) is an African-American country music singer, songwriter, yodeler, living in Arlington, Virginia, and most famously known as Country Music’s No.1 Black Yodeler. Raised in a Catholic family in Washington, DC, Johnson began yodeling in the 1950s, influenced by the music of Jimmie Rodgers, Gene Autry, and Roy Rogers, and by the “Tarzan yell” of actor Johnny Weissmuller. Johnson served in the US Navy in the Vietnam War from 1967 to 1969. He went to Nashville in 1981 for his first recording session and released a 45 rpm single. Johnson founded Pata del Lobo Music publishing in 1982 and Roughshod Records in 1987. The label released its 49th and 50th CDs in November 2014.” — Preceding unsigned comment added by Black Yodel No.1 ( talk • contribs) 22:10, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
- Comment I have struck my proxy !vote to delete since the contributing editor has now offered his opinion here. Fiddle Faddle 22:27, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
- Keep - YouTube is not a source and one claim needs sourcing but apart from that the subject is clearly notable. People don't decide whether Wikipedia articles about them should be kept or deleted but we shouldn't be including content that is not sourced to a publicly available WP:R. If anything is grossly inacurate or libelous they should go to Wikipedia:Contact us - Subjects. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง ( talk) 16:26, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.