- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was redirect to 16 Martyrs of Japan#Martyred Laity. Consensus was to either delete or Merge/redirect. Will merge any info into target article. ( non-admin closure) Onel5969 TT me 18:52, 6 October 2017 (UTC)
Marina de Omura
- Marina de Omura ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
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Random woman who lived in Japan and was burned alive for being a Catholic. The sum total of what is in the article (both this and the Italian) is what's online (i.e. there ain't more to say), and quite frankly they're not all stellar sources. Primefac ( talk) 01:29, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
- Weak delete - it appears she was canonized, not beatified, by John Paul II in 1987, according to this book. I would expect Catholic saints to usually be notable, but there simply is too little reliably sourced information about her except "brief hagiographic accounts" (compare p. 419 in the same book). My understanding is that Marina was one of the "companions" of Lorenzo Ruiz, was killed along with him and canonized along with him. All this is very hazy, though; Catholic Online only lists her as blessed, not canonized. Huon ( talk) 02:02, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
- Merge and redirect to 16 Martyrs of Japan. The little bit of information in the instant article can easily fit in the target article. By the way, all sixteen in the group were canonized at the same time (October 1987), as announced by the Vatican here. NewYorkActuary ( talk) 03:31, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
- from the it wikipedia: Marina di Omura was beatified with 15 other Dominican martyrs including Lorenzo Ruiz , Pope John Paul II on 18 February 1981 in Manila, Philippines . It was later canonized in Rome on October 18, 1987 still by John Paul II. A den jentyl ettien avel dysklyver 07:23, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
- P.S. I went ahead and merged a basic description of the subject into the target article. NewYorkActuary ( talk) 03:55, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
- Merge and redirect Not enough content for a standalone article. A den jentyl ettien avel dysklyver 07:12, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. Mark the train Discuss 05:53, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Christianity-related deletion discussions. NewYorkActuary ( talk) 06:01, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Japan-related deletion discussions. NewYorkActuary ( talk) 06:01, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 12:48, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
- Redirect to
16 Martyrs of Japan. Companions/minor figures from the list of national martyrs don't always get their own article, especially if they are from countries where English-language sourcing would not be ideal compared to a joint article. If/when we get more sources on the individual martyrs in this case, the redirect can be converted into an article.
TonyBallioni (
talk) 04:18, 30 September 2017 (UTC)
- FWIW, there do appear to be enough non-English sources where an article could be justified if we had someone to translate: [1]. If someone wants to take a crack at it before the AfD is up, ping me. Otherwise, the best thing for the reader is to redirect to the main article for the grouping. TonyBallioni ( talk) 04:21, 30 September 2017 (UTC)
- Redirect -- This sounds a good solution. I expect the information on any one of a group of martyrs is too limited to merit a separate article. Peterkingiron ( talk) 22:24, 1 October 2017 (UTC)
- Keep. It looks to me as if this article could be considerably expanded in line with the articles and sources in the French, Italian and Polish versions.-- Ipigott ( talk) 10:12, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
- Redirect to 16_Martyrs_of_Japan#Martyred_Laity where the subject is mentioned. Not enough material even for a stub at this time. If anyone wants to research the subject and source it at a later point, then great. For now, the redict works better as it provides the necessary context. K.e.coffman ( talk) 02:29, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was redirect to 16 Martyrs of Japan#Martyred Laity. Consensus was to either delete or Merge/redirect. Will merge any info into target article. ( non-admin closure) Onel5969 TT me 18:52, 6 October 2017 (UTC)
Marina de Omura
- Marina de Omura ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Random woman who lived in Japan and was burned alive for being a Catholic. The sum total of what is in the article (both this and the Italian) is what's online (i.e. there ain't more to say), and quite frankly they're not all stellar sources. Primefac ( talk) 01:29, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
- Weak delete - it appears she was canonized, not beatified, by John Paul II in 1987, according to this book. I would expect Catholic saints to usually be notable, but there simply is too little reliably sourced information about her except "brief hagiographic accounts" (compare p. 419 in the same book). My understanding is that Marina was one of the "companions" of Lorenzo Ruiz, was killed along with him and canonized along with him. All this is very hazy, though; Catholic Online only lists her as blessed, not canonized. Huon ( talk) 02:02, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
- Merge and redirect to 16 Martyrs of Japan. The little bit of information in the instant article can easily fit in the target article. By the way, all sixteen in the group were canonized at the same time (October 1987), as announced by the Vatican here. NewYorkActuary ( talk) 03:31, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
- from the it wikipedia: Marina di Omura was beatified with 15 other Dominican martyrs including Lorenzo Ruiz , Pope John Paul II on 18 February 1981 in Manila, Philippines . It was later canonized in Rome on October 18, 1987 still by John Paul II. A den jentyl ettien avel dysklyver 07:23, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
- P.S. I went ahead and merged a basic description of the subject into the target article. NewYorkActuary ( talk) 03:55, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
- Merge and redirect Not enough content for a standalone article. A den jentyl ettien avel dysklyver 07:12, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. Mark the train Discuss 05:53, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Christianity-related deletion discussions. NewYorkActuary ( talk) 06:01, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Japan-related deletion discussions. NewYorkActuary ( talk) 06:01, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 12:48, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
- Redirect to
16 Martyrs of Japan. Companions/minor figures from the list of national martyrs don't always get their own article, especially if they are from countries where English-language sourcing would not be ideal compared to a joint article. If/when we get more sources on the individual martyrs in this case, the redirect can be converted into an article.
TonyBallioni (
talk) 04:18, 30 September 2017 (UTC)
- FWIW, there do appear to be enough non-English sources where an article could be justified if we had someone to translate: [1]. If someone wants to take a crack at it before the AfD is up, ping me. Otherwise, the best thing for the reader is to redirect to the main article for the grouping. TonyBallioni ( talk) 04:21, 30 September 2017 (UTC)
- Redirect -- This sounds a good solution. I expect the information on any one of a group of martyrs is too limited to merit a separate article. Peterkingiron ( talk) 22:24, 1 October 2017 (UTC)
- Keep. It looks to me as if this article could be considerably expanded in line with the articles and sources in the French, Italian and Polish versions.-- Ipigott ( talk) 10:12, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
- Redirect to 16_Martyrs_of_Japan#Martyred_Laity where the subject is mentioned. Not enough material even for a stub at this time. If anyone wants to research the subject and source it at a later point, then great. For now, the redict works better as it provides the necessary context. K.e.coffman ( talk) 02:29, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.