The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Unfortunately we need proof of notability, more than the suggestion of possible notability. Drmies ( talk) 04:58, 25 January 2015 (UTC) reply

Maria Tripon

Maria Tripon (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)

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I don't see any particular indication this individual might meet WP:BAND points 2-12. As for point 1, let's work our way through the sources presented.

• A list of honorary citizens of Negrești-Oaș. Receiving honorary citizenship from any municipality is not by itself an indicator of notability. It certainly isn't when the town in question has under 12,000 inhabitants.

• Announcements ( 1, 2, 3, 4) that a film which includes the subject in the cast is going to play in a provincial town. Again, a bit of a reach.

• A similar announcement

• A directory entry for said film

• A video clip

• We also have a link to a book about the subject. While that sounds impressive at first, the fact is that the press which put it out is a self-publishing outfit: "Have a manuscript? We'll take care of the editing, and figure out a price together."

• Finally, there are some newspaper articles: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. The problem with these is twofold: one, they're puff pieces with little pretense of objectivity. Two, the papers are very small and local in nature. One of them, Informația Zilei, sells 6,000 copies a day. The other two are not even listed in the circulation figures. A notable Romanian singer will generally feature in the national, Bucharest-based press, or at the very least, in the press from Cluj-Napoca, the nearest metropolis to Tripon. That is simply not the case here, which is telling.

• One other note: Cristina.maria359, Taraoasuluiro, Toridon76, Grigorpetefy, Ariabenne, Don don17, Thelighttyt, PetrepPetrescu, Axmifaximum, Mmromandpmm1 and Accokkkkkkk — a couple of whom created/worked on this article — are all single-purpose accounts who've edited about the Oaș Country. Strange. - Biruitorul ^Talk 16:13, 28 December 2014 (UTC) reply

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Romania-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 21:23, 1 January 2015 (UTC) reply

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 21:23, 1 January 2015 (UTC) reply

• Delete Agreed. Lacks notability. RealDealBillMcNeal ( talk) 03:45, 4 January 2015 (UTC) reply

• Comment Biruitorul, it would have been courteous if you had notified the creator (and main contributor) of this article, Taraoasuluiro. While editor Paul A notified Taraoasuluiro of your speedy deletion nomination, the current AfD nomination has not yet been mentioned to Taraoasuluiro, and it's likely that Taraoasuluiro is unaware of the discussion on this page. -- 82.136.210.153 ( talk) 13:50, 24 January 2015 (UTC) reply

• Weak keep I have no strong opposition to deleting the article and I noticed that editor Andrei Stroe tagged the Romanian article about the subject with (the Romanian version of) {{ Notability}} on January 6th. However, after some searching I have the impression that Maria Tripon is just notable enough for inclusion. Nominator Biruitorul looked at the references that were added by the creator and main author of the article. This is good, but we need to look beyond those. The references currently in the article are primarily local newspapers and pages that mention the subject in passing. The video clip shows her performance during Pro TV's "La Maruta" program. The "Trupa de Show" film was a musical comedy for children. The film and her honorary citizenship do not make her notable. Google News gave me various hits about the subject for the second half of last year, so I decided to use Google to search through some leading national newspapers of Romania. Adevărul has various articles that mention the subject. So do other national newspapers of Romania: Krónika [1] România Liberă [2] Libertatea [3] [4] Jurnalul Național [5] [6] [7] [8] Evenimentul Zilei [9] Some of those pages include a photo of her. While she's mostly mentioned in passing, the pages give me the impression that she is fairly well-known in Romania. She has been on TV stations other than Pro TV, such as Etno TV [10] and Look TV. [11] (Search "Maria Tripon" on YouTube and browse through the resulting pages to find more stations. You can tell them apart by on-screen text and logos.) She's not just a local singer. She' just notable enough for inclusion. -- 82.136.210.153 ( talk) 16:46, 24 January 2015 (UTC) reply
  • WP:NMUSIC is clear about what constitutes a notable singer: one who "has been the subject of multiple, non-trivial, published works appearing in sources that are reliable, not self-published, and are independent from the musician or ensemble itself". Passing mentions don't count towards notability. I'm not saying the subject is unknown outside the Oaș Country, but that's not the standard by which we judge notability, either. The standard is set forth above, and the lack of independent coverage points to non-notability.
  • Note that said criterion applies to "published works in all forms, such as newspaper articles, books, magazine articles, online versions of print media, and television documentaries". However, it does not include video clips of singers, so mere television appearances during live entertainment performances are also not evidence of notability. - Biruitorul ^Talk 19:59, 24 January 2015 (UTC) reply

To (re)summarize the gist of my scribblings above: I believe that she is fairly well-known in Romania and is just notable enough for inclusion. WP:NMUSIC is a guideline, not a policy. ( WP:IAR is. ) While it would be ideal if we could point to third-party articles in major publications where she's discussed in detail - because that would be airtight 'proof' that fits nicely with the notability guideline - the things I've found give me the impression she's notable enough. I see enough coverage, specially when reviewed in context (Romania, 0.28% of the world population). What I found was from a quick Google search, it's very likely there's more coverage of her. We could ask WikiProject Romania for input. -- 82.136.210.153 ( talk) 20:51, 24 January 2015 (UTC) reply

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.