- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Mark Arsten ( talk) 03:14, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
María V. Martínez
- María V. Martínez ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Contested PROD. Fails WP:SOLDIER - CSM isnt senior enough - if she were Sgt Maj of the Army then yes. Page creator feels that as one of the few Hispanic Women to reach her rank she is notable. Is that enough? Non notable IMO Gbawden ( talk) 18:25, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
- Keep - The article María V. Martínez has been proposed for deletion because it is said that it fails WP:SOLDIER - where Command Sgt Majors are not notable however if she were a SgtMajor of the Army then she would be. It should be made clear that, unlike the claim of the nominator, the creator feels that her notability has nothing to do with her rank, if that were the case then many Medal of Honor recipients would not qualify because of their rank. Her notability has to do with her achievements and accomplishments in the military.
I believe her to be notable, not only because she is one of the few Latina/Hispanic Women to reach her rank, but because she is the Senior Enlisted Adviser to the Director of the Army Diversity Office in the Pentagon, Washington D.C., a very important position in the U.S. military. She is also the recipient of two Legion of Merit medals, a medal which ranks as the third highest United States Military decoration (after the Medal of Honor and the Distinguished Service Medal). Martínez was also honored in 1989, she was recognized as the "Soldier of the Year" by the Milwaukee Recruiting Battalion.
She has also been awarded the following recognition's:
- Recruiter of the Year 1987-88
- Soldier of the Year 1989 Milwaukee Recruiting Battalion.
- Department of Defense (DOD) Hispanic Image Award
- National GI Forum Military Person of the Year, Washington DC
- Recruiting Glen Morrell Order of the Medallion
Tony the Marine ( talk) 19:03, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. Sam Sailor Talk! 15:06, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Puerto Rico-related deletion discussions. Sam Sailor Talk! 15:07, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. Sam Sailor Talk! 15:07, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. Sam Sailor Talk! 15:07, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
- Delete. NCOs are never kept just for doing their job unless they are the most senior NCO in the service. Her awards just aren't high enough for notability - many of them are internal awards recognised only by the US Army and the remainder are fairly minor service awards. The Legion of Merit is far too common to qualify a recipient for notability - you would have to have two Distinguished Service Crosses (not Medals) for that (and note they're for gallantry, not for just doing your job well). Clearly fails WP:SOLDIER and all other standards of notability. -- Necrothesp ( talk) 15:24, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
- Delete - fails
WP:GNG due to lack of significant coverage. That aside I disagree with Necrothesp's reasoning above as lacking any basis in policy (WP:SOLDIER is of course only an essay and is in no way prescriptive). Even "the most senior NCO in the service" wouldn't be kept unless they met
WP:SIGCOV.
Anotherclown (
talk) 10:44, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- It is indeed only an essay. However, any of us who edit military articles know that in practice it is widely accepted at AfD and is a de facto notability standard. Neither do I believe I said that the most senior NCO in a service should be kept per WP:SOLDIER, which is not the case; they are, however, almost invariably kept in practice. The claim that there is no inherent notability is true per strict interpretation of the guidelines; but clearly untrue in the actual interpretation at AfD. There are no set in stone rules on Wikipedia; there is only consensus. -- Necrothesp ( talk) 09:57, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
- WP:ONLYESSAY - The Bushranger One ping only 22:51, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — UY Scuti Talk 17:14, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — UY Scuti Talk 17:14, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 18:31, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 18:31, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
- Delete per GNG and SOLDIER. Being one of the few (as opposed to the Few) is not enough; you need to be the first to have a chance. (P.S. Serving in the military isn't considered "servitude".) Clarityfiend ( talk) 00:09, 15 December 2015 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Mark Arsten ( talk) 03:14, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
María V. Martínez
- María V. Martínez ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Contested PROD. Fails WP:SOLDIER - CSM isnt senior enough - if she were Sgt Maj of the Army then yes. Page creator feels that as one of the few Hispanic Women to reach her rank she is notable. Is that enough? Non notable IMO Gbawden ( talk) 18:25, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
- Keep - The article María V. Martínez has been proposed for deletion because it is said that it fails WP:SOLDIER - where Command Sgt Majors are not notable however if she were a SgtMajor of the Army then she would be. It should be made clear that, unlike the claim of the nominator, the creator feels that her notability has nothing to do with her rank, if that were the case then many Medal of Honor recipients would not qualify because of their rank. Her notability has to do with her achievements and accomplishments in the military.
I believe her to be notable, not only because she is one of the few Latina/Hispanic Women to reach her rank, but because she is the Senior Enlisted Adviser to the Director of the Army Diversity Office in the Pentagon, Washington D.C., a very important position in the U.S. military. She is also the recipient of two Legion of Merit medals, a medal which ranks as the third highest United States Military decoration (after the Medal of Honor and the Distinguished Service Medal). Martínez was also honored in 1989, she was recognized as the "Soldier of the Year" by the Milwaukee Recruiting Battalion.
She has also been awarded the following recognition's:
- Recruiter of the Year 1987-88
- Soldier of the Year 1989 Milwaukee Recruiting Battalion.
- Department of Defense (DOD) Hispanic Image Award
- National GI Forum Military Person of the Year, Washington DC
- Recruiting Glen Morrell Order of the Medallion
Tony the Marine ( talk) 19:03, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. Sam Sailor Talk! 15:06, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Puerto Rico-related deletion discussions. Sam Sailor Talk! 15:07, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. Sam Sailor Talk! 15:07, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. Sam Sailor Talk! 15:07, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
- Delete. NCOs are never kept just for doing their job unless they are the most senior NCO in the service. Her awards just aren't high enough for notability - many of them are internal awards recognised only by the US Army and the remainder are fairly minor service awards. The Legion of Merit is far too common to qualify a recipient for notability - you would have to have two Distinguished Service Crosses (not Medals) for that (and note they're for gallantry, not for just doing your job well). Clearly fails WP:SOLDIER and all other standards of notability. -- Necrothesp ( talk) 15:24, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
- Delete - fails
WP:GNG due to lack of significant coverage. That aside I disagree with Necrothesp's reasoning above as lacking any basis in policy (WP:SOLDIER is of course only an essay and is in no way prescriptive). Even "the most senior NCO in the service" wouldn't be kept unless they met
WP:SIGCOV.
Anotherclown (
talk) 10:44, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- It is indeed only an essay. However, any of us who edit military articles know that in practice it is widely accepted at AfD and is a de facto notability standard. Neither do I believe I said that the most senior NCO in a service should be kept per WP:SOLDIER, which is not the case; they are, however, almost invariably kept in practice. The claim that there is no inherent notability is true per strict interpretation of the guidelines; but clearly untrue in the actual interpretation at AfD. There are no set in stone rules on Wikipedia; there is only consensus. -- Necrothesp ( talk) 09:57, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
- WP:ONLYESSAY - The Bushranger One ping only 22:51, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — UY Scuti Talk 17:14, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — UY Scuti Talk 17:14, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 18:31, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 18:31, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
- Delete per GNG and SOLDIER. Being one of the few (as opposed to the Few) is not enough; you need to be the first to have a chance. (P.S. Serving in the military isn't considered "servitude".) Clarityfiend ( talk) 00:09, 15 December 2015 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.