From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎. This is unsourced and sources arguably do not exist. I don't see how we can maintain an article that is not OR in these circumstances. On that basis I would accept the argument that V takes precedence over the SNG.

We have been here many times before and when faced with a core policy indicating deletion against an SNG supporting inclusion the answer is always to revisit the the SNG. On that basis the policy based argument is that this is an unsourced article that cannot be sourced. Spartaz Humbug! 05:39, 18 October 2023 (UTC) reply

M43 (Durban) (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
(Find sources:  Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs· FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Fails WP:GNG. WP:GEOROAD states "topic notability for county roads... are presumed to be notable if they have been the subject of multiple published secondary sources which contain significant coverage and are reliable and independent of the subject" which there is no evidence of. ––– GMH MELBOURNE TALK 09:26, 2 October 2023 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CycloneYoris talk! 23:00, 9 October 2023 (UTC) reply

  • Delete This seems like one that needs a long explanation. @ Ritchie333:'s rationale seems to be solid. The WP:GEOROAD automatic notability covers Road networks: International road networks (such as the International E-road network), Interstate, national, state and provincial highways - but this does not appear to one of those: our article describes it as a a short metropolitan route and Metropolitan Routes in Durban describes it as intra-city. In this case it appears our guide allows this article to be kept if there is multiple published secondary sources which contain significant coverage and are reliable and independent of the subject.. My WP:BEFORE has shown me that there is none to be found Even Google maps does not seem to recognize the road as significant. Ping me if anyone can come up with RS and I will change my ivote. Lightburst ( talk) 15:17, 11 October 2023 (UTC) reply
Comment Metropolitan route networks predate the current municipal framework in South Africa, and were designed as intercity route networks. The fact that the municipal boundaries were expanded doesn’t change this fact (and in the cases of Johannesburg and Ekurhuleni they still do cross modern municipal boundaries). So they are not, strictly “intra-city” as these municipalities are enornmous and polycentric made up of separate cities and towns (I vaguely recall that the there was a political idea mooted to abolish provinces and replace them with municipalities which are a more valid second-tier government structure). So these routes are provincial in nature. Park3r ( talk) 23:58, 14 October 2023 (UTC) reply
  • Keep - Flawed nomination, I see nothing wrong with the article. Just needs to be expanded a little bit with more references. Plus, there's plenty of articles on Wikipedia, similar to this article, that look like this. Geko72290 ( talk) 21:51, 17 October 2023 (UTC) reply
    But how is it meet wikipedias notability standards?
    Just needs to be expanded a little bit with more reference - References don't exist, if you find any, perhaps add them.
    there's plenty of articles on Wikipedia, similar to this article - see WP:OTHERSTUFF. ––– GMH MELBOURNE 22:59, 17 October 2023 (UTC) reply
Your rationale is tough @ Geko72290: because you have said Just needs to be expanded a little bit with more references.. But there are none to be found, if they WP:NEXIST the participants here, and myself, are unable to find them. Most of the other keeps here come from the belief that this intra-city route has automatic notability based on our guideline, but I believe that it does not. From your rationale you believe it can be expanded with sources, but it cannot because they do not exist. Lightburst ( talk) 00:40, 18 October 2023 (UTC) reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎. This is unsourced and sources arguably do not exist. I don't see how we can maintain an article that is not OR in these circumstances. On that basis I would accept the argument that V takes precedence over the SNG.

We have been here many times before and when faced with a core policy indicating deletion against an SNG supporting inclusion the answer is always to revisit the the SNG. On that basis the policy based argument is that this is an unsourced article that cannot be sourced. Spartaz Humbug! 05:39, 18 October 2023 (UTC) reply

M43 (Durban) (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
(Find sources:  Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs· FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Fails WP:GNG. WP:GEOROAD states "topic notability for county roads... are presumed to be notable if they have been the subject of multiple published secondary sources which contain significant coverage and are reliable and independent of the subject" which there is no evidence of. ––– GMH MELBOURNE TALK 09:26, 2 October 2023 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CycloneYoris talk! 23:00, 9 October 2023 (UTC) reply

  • Delete This seems like one that needs a long explanation. @ Ritchie333:'s rationale seems to be solid. The WP:GEOROAD automatic notability covers Road networks: International road networks (such as the International E-road network), Interstate, national, state and provincial highways - but this does not appear to one of those: our article describes it as a a short metropolitan route and Metropolitan Routes in Durban describes it as intra-city. In this case it appears our guide allows this article to be kept if there is multiple published secondary sources which contain significant coverage and are reliable and independent of the subject.. My WP:BEFORE has shown me that there is none to be found Even Google maps does not seem to recognize the road as significant. Ping me if anyone can come up with RS and I will change my ivote. Lightburst ( talk) 15:17, 11 October 2023 (UTC) reply
Comment Metropolitan route networks predate the current municipal framework in South Africa, and were designed as intercity route networks. The fact that the municipal boundaries were expanded doesn’t change this fact (and in the cases of Johannesburg and Ekurhuleni they still do cross modern municipal boundaries). So they are not, strictly “intra-city” as these municipalities are enornmous and polycentric made up of separate cities and towns (I vaguely recall that the there was a political idea mooted to abolish provinces and replace them with municipalities which are a more valid second-tier government structure). So these routes are provincial in nature. Park3r ( talk) 23:58, 14 October 2023 (UTC) reply
  • Keep - Flawed nomination, I see nothing wrong with the article. Just needs to be expanded a little bit with more references. Plus, there's plenty of articles on Wikipedia, similar to this article, that look like this. Geko72290 ( talk) 21:51, 17 October 2023 (UTC) reply
    But how is it meet wikipedias notability standards?
    Just needs to be expanded a little bit with more reference - References don't exist, if you find any, perhaps add them.
    there's plenty of articles on Wikipedia, similar to this article - see WP:OTHERSTUFF. ––– GMH MELBOURNE 22:59, 17 October 2023 (UTC) reply
Your rationale is tough @ Geko72290: because you have said Just needs to be expanded a little bit with more references.. But there are none to be found, if they WP:NEXIST the participants here, and myself, are unable to find them. Most of the other keeps here come from the belief that this intra-city route has automatic notability based on our guideline, but I believe that it does not. From your rationale you believe it can be expanded with sources, but it cannot because they do not exist. Lightburst ( talk) 00:40, 18 October 2023 (UTC) reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

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