- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Secret account 04:52, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
Louwalan clan
- Louwalan clan ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
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Even making all possible allowance for WP:CSB, there's no indication of notability here; the principal source for the page, that by Beneah Manyuru Mutsotso, does not once mention the clan (Chief Louwalan is mentioned several times). No hits on Scholar or JSTOR. Justlettersandnumbers ( talk) 09:04, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
Hi,
The article you mention, the primary source of the material from a historical perspective is titled in full;
Dr. Mutostso, B.M, International Journal of Education & Research: The East Pokot Pastoralists in conflict siege: Reflections on cultural interpretations of persistent conflict
The article discusses causes of conflict between two ethnic groups, the Pokot and the Njemps. It identifies this legend of Louwalan being culturally significant to the Pokot in interpreting their causes of conflict.
The story of 'Lowalan' and praise songs to him are also captured in the biography of Domunguria, a Pokot man, written during a period of rapid cultural change. It is significant in being the only book that captures Pokot traditions and culture from the perspective of an ethnic Pokot. It is available online here;
http://www.iwgia.org/publications/search-pubs?publication_id=9
Search text 'Lowalan'
The first book to be written on the Pokot, by Beech, the colonial district officer in 1911 actually has an image of him that might be available for inclusion in Wikicommons. In the list of illustrations, he notes of 'Lowelan' that he was "their most renowned warrior".
It is available online here; https://archive.org/stream/suktheirlanguage00beecrich#page/n13/mode/2up
Search text for 'Lowelan'
The folk-lore of a related but separate ethnic group, the Tugen, captures the story of Lowalan as 'Clan Long'ole'. Of all the accounts, it is the most comprehensive hence my choice of clan as the title and structure of the article. This tale was captured in one of the only accounts of the wider Kalenjin folk-lore, by Cianjui Chesaina. Book reference below.
Chesaina, C. Oral Literature of the Kalenjin, 1991
I believe this makes the topic relevant though your point regarding Lowalan the person as opposed to the clan he led is well taken and perhaps may require editing in that regard. Eren Gatiat ( talk) 10:22, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Kenya-related deletion discussions. NorthAmerica 1000 15:11, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ethnic groups-related deletion discussions. NorthAmerica 1000 15:12, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. NorthAmerica 1000 15:12, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
-
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
- Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, czar ♔ 22:17, 6 October 2014 (UTC)
-
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
- Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, NorthAmerica 1000 01:58, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
- Delete -- This is a small stub. It appears to be about a clan, not a tribe, with no indication of its size. Without evidcne of size, I think we need to conclude that it is (or was) NN. We have someone defending its existence. If he is prepared to expand it, I might be willing to keep it, but for the moment I cannot support that. Peterkingiron ( talk) 19:30, 16 October 2014 (UTC)
Name Change --- In defense of the articles existence, I would be prepared to expand it. As JLN noted in his original comment though, the article references Louwalan the individual more than the clan he led, he was notable during his time as recorded in a contemporary account but also in the impact that his legend has had on a number of tribes, two distinctly. I'd therefore propose a change of the articles title simply to Louwalan, the most common rendition of the individuals name. Under this title both the account of the individual and the clan could be discussed. As noted I would be happy to contribute to writing the article. Eren Gatiat ( talk) 04:32, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
-
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
- Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, NorthAmerica 1000 23:03, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
-
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
- Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Dennis 2¢ 23:29, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
Keep. Most of the text of the article was removed as a copy vio and the article immediately nominated for deletion. The deleted text shows the clan is notable. I would like to see the article kept and Eren Gatiat given a reasonable chance to bring the article up to scratch (say 6 months) before the matter is re-considered. Op47 ( talk) 20:12, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Secret account 04:52, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
Louwalan clan
- Louwalan clan ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Even making all possible allowance for WP:CSB, there's no indication of notability here; the principal source for the page, that by Beneah Manyuru Mutsotso, does not once mention the clan (Chief Louwalan is mentioned several times). No hits on Scholar or JSTOR. Justlettersandnumbers ( talk) 09:04, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
Hi,
The article you mention, the primary source of the material from a historical perspective is titled in full;
Dr. Mutostso, B.M, International Journal of Education & Research: The East Pokot Pastoralists in conflict siege: Reflections on cultural interpretations of persistent conflict
The article discusses causes of conflict between two ethnic groups, the Pokot and the Njemps. It identifies this legend of Louwalan being culturally significant to the Pokot in interpreting their causes of conflict.
The story of 'Lowalan' and praise songs to him are also captured in the biography of Domunguria, a Pokot man, written during a period of rapid cultural change. It is significant in being the only book that captures Pokot traditions and culture from the perspective of an ethnic Pokot. It is available online here;
http://www.iwgia.org/publications/search-pubs?publication_id=9
Search text 'Lowalan'
The first book to be written on the Pokot, by Beech, the colonial district officer in 1911 actually has an image of him that might be available for inclusion in Wikicommons. In the list of illustrations, he notes of 'Lowelan' that he was "their most renowned warrior".
It is available online here; https://archive.org/stream/suktheirlanguage00beecrich#page/n13/mode/2up
Search text for 'Lowelan'
The folk-lore of a related but separate ethnic group, the Tugen, captures the story of Lowalan as 'Clan Long'ole'. Of all the accounts, it is the most comprehensive hence my choice of clan as the title and structure of the article. This tale was captured in one of the only accounts of the wider Kalenjin folk-lore, by Cianjui Chesaina. Book reference below.
Chesaina, C. Oral Literature of the Kalenjin, 1991
I believe this makes the topic relevant though your point regarding Lowalan the person as opposed to the clan he led is well taken and perhaps may require editing in that regard. Eren Gatiat ( talk) 10:22, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Kenya-related deletion discussions. NorthAmerica 1000 15:11, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ethnic groups-related deletion discussions. NorthAmerica 1000 15:12, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. NorthAmerica 1000 15:12, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
-
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
- Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, czar ♔ 22:17, 6 October 2014 (UTC)
-
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
- Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, NorthAmerica 1000 01:58, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
- Delete -- This is a small stub. It appears to be about a clan, not a tribe, with no indication of its size. Without evidcne of size, I think we need to conclude that it is (or was) NN. We have someone defending its existence. If he is prepared to expand it, I might be willing to keep it, but for the moment I cannot support that. Peterkingiron ( talk) 19:30, 16 October 2014 (UTC)
Name Change --- In defense of the articles existence, I would be prepared to expand it. As JLN noted in his original comment though, the article references Louwalan the individual more than the clan he led, he was notable during his time as recorded in a contemporary account but also in the impact that his legend has had on a number of tribes, two distinctly. I'd therefore propose a change of the articles title simply to Louwalan, the most common rendition of the individuals name. Under this title both the account of the individual and the clan could be discussed. As noted I would be happy to contribute to writing the article. Eren Gatiat ( talk) 04:32, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
-
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
- Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, NorthAmerica 1000 23:03, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
-
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
- Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Dennis 2¢ 23:29, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
Keep. Most of the text of the article was removed as a copy vio and the article immediately nominated for deletion. The deleted text shows the clan is notable. I would like to see the article kept and Eren Gatiat given a reasonable chance to bring the article up to scratch (say 6 months) before the matter is re-considered. Op47 ( talk) 20:12, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.