- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. Weak arguments on both sides of the debate and no discernible consensus after several weeks. – Juliancolton | Talk 02:40, 14 January 2017 (UTC)
Lloyd W. Bailey
- Lloyd W. Bailey ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Fails WP:GNG and WP:POLITICIAN. Faithless electors aren't inherently notable. WP:NOTNEWS and WP:BLP1E apply. – Muboshgu ( talk) 06:04, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. – Muboshgu ( talk) 06:05, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. – Muboshgu ( talk) 06:05, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
- Keep - Bailey's actions had historical significance, and he was, and still is, widely covered by reliable sources.-- Tdl1060 ( talk) 02:20, 26 December 2016 (UTC)
- Delete The coverage is largely in passing and not about Bailey himself.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 17:59, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
- The recent coverage of Bailey, in relation to this year's faithless electors was largely in passing. However, in 1968, there were articles for which his actions were the primary subject, and which discussed Bailey himself, as seen here. Bailey's actions even prompted action in congress to disqualify his vote [1], though this was unsuccessful, as well as other efforts to reform the electoral process. [2]-- Tdl1060 ( talk) 01:43, 30 December 2016 (UTC)
- "Coverage in passing" applies to what guideline or policy or essay? Unscintillating ( talk) 22:22, 5 January 2017 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America 1000 20:15, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America 1000 20:15, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
- Comment As per WP:BEFORE D1, "The minimum search expected" includes Google Books. In addition to the following, the first page there has a source from the Congressional Record. These quotes are from the snippets:
- CQ Press, Guide to Congress 2012 states, "...the vote cast by a North Carolina elector, Dr. Lloyd W. Bailey of Rocky Mount, who had been elected as a Republican but chose to vote for Wallace and Curtis E. LeMay instead of for Nixon and Agnew."
- Edwards, Why the Electoral College is Bad for America: Second Edition states, "As mentioned earlier, in 1968, Dr. Lloyd W. Bailey, Republican of North Carolina, declined to abide by his pledge to support his party's nominee, Richard Nixon. A member of the ultraconservative John Birch Society, Bailey decided that he..."
- Moore, Elections A-Z 2013 states, "In 1968 Dr. Lloyd W. Bailey, a Nixon elector in North Carolina, voted for George C. Wallace..."
- Schulman, Student's Guide to Elections 2008 states, "In 1968, Dr. Lloyd W. Bailey, a Nixon elector in North Carolina, voted for George C. Wallace, the American Independent Party candidate.
- More results are available using "Lloyd Bailey". From the Spartanburg Herald Journal, 18 December 2000, I found,
- Unscintillating ( talk) 22:22, 5 January 2017 (UTC)
- Keep Sufficient sourcing is available in WP:BEFORE D1 to satisfy WP:GNG. WP:NOTNEWS was deprecated years ago in favor of the term WP:NOTNEWSPAPER. Discussion of a page move, as per WP:Deletion policy#CONTENT is for discussion on the talk page. Unscintillating ( talk) 22:22, 5 January 2017 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 05:20, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 05:20, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
- Delete as nothing at all here for WP:POLITICIAN since he was not a major politician and the only claims here are for being working with a politician and and in a politician campaign, hence not automatically inherited notability. SwisterTwister talk 05:51, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
- Google's definition for politician is, "a person who is professionally involved in politics, especially as a holder of or a candidate for an elected office." From the Spartanburg, SC article, "As a North Carolina Republican elector in 1968, the Rocky Mount ophthalmologist cast a vote that propelled him into the public spotlight, earning him national media attention and leading him to testify before Congress." The topic was still active in the John Birch Society as of 2008.
The topic isn't a politician, so there is no surprise that there is "nothing at all here for WP:POLITICIAN". He wasn't a politician, so there is no surprise that "he was not a major politician". As for the argument that the "only claims here are for being working with a politician and and in a politician campaign", this argument is myopic. Unscintillating ( talk) 12:53, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
- Google's definition for politician is, "a person who is professionally involved in politics, especially as a holder of or a candidate for an elected office." From the Spartanburg, SC article, "As a North Carolina Republican elector in 1968, the Rocky Mount ophthalmologist cast a vote that propelled him into the public spotlight, earning him national media attention and leading him to testify before Congress." The topic was still active in the John Birch Society as of 2008.
- Comment Google scholar also has good hits. Here is the 2nd:
- Haberfield, Problem of the Faithless Elector, The, 1968–69, Harv. J. on Legis., "...Bailey thereby added another footnote to history...Dr. Bailey defended his defection, in part, on the ground that Wallace had received a majority of the votes of the Second Congressional District..."
- Unscintillating ( talk) 12:53, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
- Keep Interesting article, seems like something I should have known. Jacknstock ( talk) 01:36, 7 January 2017 (UTC)
- Delete - clearly not enough in-depth coverage to show that other than the single event, he passes WP:GNG. Any interesting tidbits could be included at Faithless elector#1968 to 1996. Onel5969 TT me 02:20, 9 January 2017 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. Weak arguments on both sides of the debate and no discernible consensus after several weeks. – Juliancolton | Talk 02:40, 14 January 2017 (UTC)
Lloyd W. Bailey
- Lloyd W. Bailey ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Fails WP:GNG and WP:POLITICIAN. Faithless electors aren't inherently notable. WP:NOTNEWS and WP:BLP1E apply. – Muboshgu ( talk) 06:04, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. – Muboshgu ( talk) 06:05, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. – Muboshgu ( talk) 06:05, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
- Keep - Bailey's actions had historical significance, and he was, and still is, widely covered by reliable sources.-- Tdl1060 ( talk) 02:20, 26 December 2016 (UTC)
- Delete The coverage is largely in passing and not about Bailey himself.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 17:59, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
- The recent coverage of Bailey, in relation to this year's faithless electors was largely in passing. However, in 1968, there were articles for which his actions were the primary subject, and which discussed Bailey himself, as seen here. Bailey's actions even prompted action in congress to disqualify his vote [1], though this was unsuccessful, as well as other efforts to reform the electoral process. [2]-- Tdl1060 ( talk) 01:43, 30 December 2016 (UTC)
- "Coverage in passing" applies to what guideline or policy or essay? Unscintillating ( talk) 22:22, 5 January 2017 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America 1000 20:15, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America 1000 20:15, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
- Comment As per WP:BEFORE D1, "The minimum search expected" includes Google Books. In addition to the following, the first page there has a source from the Congressional Record. These quotes are from the snippets:
- CQ Press, Guide to Congress 2012 states, "...the vote cast by a North Carolina elector, Dr. Lloyd W. Bailey of Rocky Mount, who had been elected as a Republican but chose to vote for Wallace and Curtis E. LeMay instead of for Nixon and Agnew."
- Edwards, Why the Electoral College is Bad for America: Second Edition states, "As mentioned earlier, in 1968, Dr. Lloyd W. Bailey, Republican of North Carolina, declined to abide by his pledge to support his party's nominee, Richard Nixon. A member of the ultraconservative John Birch Society, Bailey decided that he..."
- Moore, Elections A-Z 2013 states, "In 1968 Dr. Lloyd W. Bailey, a Nixon elector in North Carolina, voted for George C. Wallace..."
- Schulman, Student's Guide to Elections 2008 states, "In 1968, Dr. Lloyd W. Bailey, a Nixon elector in North Carolina, voted for George C. Wallace, the American Independent Party candidate.
- More results are available using "Lloyd Bailey". From the Spartanburg Herald Journal, 18 December 2000, I found,
- Unscintillating ( talk) 22:22, 5 January 2017 (UTC)
- Keep Sufficient sourcing is available in WP:BEFORE D1 to satisfy WP:GNG. WP:NOTNEWS was deprecated years ago in favor of the term WP:NOTNEWSPAPER. Discussion of a page move, as per WP:Deletion policy#CONTENT is for discussion on the talk page. Unscintillating ( talk) 22:22, 5 January 2017 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 05:20, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 05:20, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
- Delete as nothing at all here for WP:POLITICIAN since he was not a major politician and the only claims here are for being working with a politician and and in a politician campaign, hence not automatically inherited notability. SwisterTwister talk 05:51, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
- Google's definition for politician is, "a person who is professionally involved in politics, especially as a holder of or a candidate for an elected office." From the Spartanburg, SC article, "As a North Carolina Republican elector in 1968, the Rocky Mount ophthalmologist cast a vote that propelled him into the public spotlight, earning him national media attention and leading him to testify before Congress." The topic was still active in the John Birch Society as of 2008.
The topic isn't a politician, so there is no surprise that there is "nothing at all here for WP:POLITICIAN". He wasn't a politician, so there is no surprise that "he was not a major politician". As for the argument that the "only claims here are for being working with a politician and and in a politician campaign", this argument is myopic. Unscintillating ( talk) 12:53, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
- Google's definition for politician is, "a person who is professionally involved in politics, especially as a holder of or a candidate for an elected office." From the Spartanburg, SC article, "As a North Carolina Republican elector in 1968, the Rocky Mount ophthalmologist cast a vote that propelled him into the public spotlight, earning him national media attention and leading him to testify before Congress." The topic was still active in the John Birch Society as of 2008.
- Comment Google scholar also has good hits. Here is the 2nd:
- Haberfield, Problem of the Faithless Elector, The, 1968–69, Harv. J. on Legis., "...Bailey thereby added another footnote to history...Dr. Bailey defended his defection, in part, on the ground that Wallace had received a majority of the votes of the Second Congressional District..."
- Unscintillating ( talk) 12:53, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
- Keep Interesting article, seems like something I should have known. Jacknstock ( talk) 01:36, 7 January 2017 (UTC)
- Delete - clearly not enough in-depth coverage to show that other than the single event, he passes WP:GNG. Any interesting tidbits could be included at Faithless elector#1968 to 1996. Onel5969 TT me 02:20, 9 January 2017 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.