The result was delete. This might be controversial but there are some editors who object to a redirect that is proposed here on solid grounds. So, I'm closing this as a Delete. If an editor believes there should be a Redirect from this page title, you can create it and if there are objections to it, then the discussion can be brought to RFD. But a Redirect won't come out of this closure. Liz Read! Talk! 03:51, 13 August 2023 (UTC)
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WP:OR WP:CROSSCAT of language family ( Celtic languages) and geography ( Category:Irish clans is a child of Category:Culture of Ireland; Category:Scottish clans is a child of Category:Social history of Scotland). The Celtic language family is WP:NONDEFINING for these clans, they could and often did have English or Scots as their native language. There is a strong consensus building on a long series of precedents to not mix up language families and countries/states, see the landmark decision Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Turkic dynasties and countries for an anthology. Besides, the "Celtic women" rename & purge of 27 June 2023 already confirmed people after 500 CE are no longer called "Celts/Celtic". To speak of Lists of clans of Celtic peoples, who disappeared from history after 500 CE, in reference to clans who did not appear until the High Middle Ages (after 1000 CE), is simply WP:OR. See also Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 July 22#Category:Lists of modern Indo-European tribes and clans. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 15:39, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
The spread of the hillfort phenomenon represents a growing instability. Moreover, demographic growth and control of summer pastures is reflected in the increased use of transhumance to avoid the winter aridity of the Meseta plains and the harsh winters in the mountains (Almagro- Gorbea 1987a, 42; 1987b). This process favoured a hierarchical social organization, evidence for which is provided by grave goods of Celtic warrior clans (Almagro-Gorbea1993,148). It was this, together with an abundance of iron in these regions (Maluquer 1987), which helped to underpin the vigorous expansion of the Celtiberian Culture.
An ethnic group larger than a band or clan (and which may contain clans) but smaller than a nation (and which in turn may be contained within a nation).. Merriam-Webster confirms at clan and tribe that tribes are divided into clans, and several clans can make up a tribe. "clan" is more synonymous with "family" , "kin", or "house". Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 23:10, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting to consider the Redirect option.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Liz
Read!
Talk!
22:57, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: There are several redirects suggested here as well as editors saying redirects are unnecessary so I'm hoping for some more feedback.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Liz
Read!
Talk!
23:28, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
Clans and tribes are two different thingsis irrelevant unless they are suggesting that clans are also not people. PS: The claim that Irish clans didn't exist until 500 CE is either equally invalid or relies on a picky and stilted definition of 'clans' (such linguistic jiu jitsu is, I believe, exactly why the aforementioned list says 'people'). Cheers, Last1in ( talk) 18:36, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
An ethnic group larger than a band or clan (and which may contain clans) but smaller than a nation (and which in turn may be contained within a nation).Merriam-Webster confirms at clan and tribe that tribes are divided into clans, and several clans can make up a tribe. "clan" is more synonymous with "family" , "kin", or "house".
The result was delete. This might be controversial but there are some editors who object to a redirect that is proposed here on solid grounds. So, I'm closing this as a Delete. If an editor believes there should be a Redirect from this page title, you can create it and if there are objections to it, then the discussion can be brought to RFD. But a Redirect won't come out of this closure. Liz Read! Talk! 03:51, 13 August 2023 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
WP:OR WP:CROSSCAT of language family ( Celtic languages) and geography ( Category:Irish clans is a child of Category:Culture of Ireland; Category:Scottish clans is a child of Category:Social history of Scotland). The Celtic language family is WP:NONDEFINING for these clans, they could and often did have English or Scots as their native language. There is a strong consensus building on a long series of precedents to not mix up language families and countries/states, see the landmark decision Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Turkic dynasties and countries for an anthology. Besides, the "Celtic women" rename & purge of 27 June 2023 already confirmed people after 500 CE are no longer called "Celts/Celtic". To speak of Lists of clans of Celtic peoples, who disappeared from history after 500 CE, in reference to clans who did not appear until the High Middle Ages (after 1000 CE), is simply WP:OR. See also Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 July 22#Category:Lists of modern Indo-European tribes and clans. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 15:39, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
The spread of the hillfort phenomenon represents a growing instability. Moreover, demographic growth and control of summer pastures is reflected in the increased use of transhumance to avoid the winter aridity of the Meseta plains and the harsh winters in the mountains (Almagro- Gorbea 1987a, 42; 1987b). This process favoured a hierarchical social organization, evidence for which is provided by grave goods of Celtic warrior clans (Almagro-Gorbea1993,148). It was this, together with an abundance of iron in these regions (Maluquer 1987), which helped to underpin the vigorous expansion of the Celtiberian Culture.
An ethnic group larger than a band or clan (and which may contain clans) but smaller than a nation (and which in turn may be contained within a nation).. Merriam-Webster confirms at clan and tribe that tribes are divided into clans, and several clans can make up a tribe. "clan" is more synonymous with "family" , "kin", or "house". Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 23:10, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting to consider the Redirect option.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Liz
Read!
Talk!
22:57, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: There are several redirects suggested here as well as editors saying redirects are unnecessary so I'm hoping for some more feedback.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Liz
Read!
Talk!
23:28, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
Clans and tribes are two different thingsis irrelevant unless they are suggesting that clans are also not people. PS: The claim that Irish clans didn't exist until 500 CE is either equally invalid or relies on a picky and stilted definition of 'clans' (such linguistic jiu jitsu is, I believe, exactly why the aforementioned list says 'people'). Cheers, Last1in ( talk) 18:36, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
An ethnic group larger than a band or clan (and which may contain clans) but smaller than a nation (and which in turn may be contained within a nation).Merriam-Webster confirms at clan and tribe that tribes are divided into clans, and several clans can make up a tribe. "clan" is more synonymous with "family" , "kin", or "house".