List of people with non-binary gender identities
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- List of people with non-binary gender identities ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
While I'm sure this list seemed like a good idea when it was started in 2015, it is no longer practical to keep it updated. According to Wikidata, there are about 1000 non-binary people with Wikipedia articles. This list only includes about 200 of them (including some that probably don't belong, like Prince). The number of notable non-binary people is growing at a rapid rate and I think this information is better handled via Wikidata and categories (the same as we handle other genders). By only listing a small fraction, we are giving the false impression that there are a much smaller number of notable non-binary people than there really are. If you disagree, please elaborate on how you think this list can be realistically kept up-to-date into the future. Nosferattus ( talk) 16:06, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists of people-related deletion discussions. Nosferattus ( talk) 16:06, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- Weak support: Seems reasonable to handle the same as other gender identities. Is it possible to redirect to
Category:Non-binary people (even though it's out of the article namespace)? The downside would be that there's no central list: categories organize things as trees, and it's impossible to view an actual list of all the people. But that may be inevitable. If wikidata gives a list view, maybe it's possible to link to wikidata somehow?
Mrfoogles (
talk)
16:22, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- Need a second opinion though Mrfoogles ( talk) 16:25, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment I wanted to make a comment first before voting. I am going to throw this out there; we have list articles like
Lists of women,
Lists of men,
List of gay, lesbian or bisexual people,
Lists of LGBT people,
List of transgender people. Honestly I don't understand the arguement behind this at all.
CycoMa1 (
talk)
17:06, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- Like can any of you please provide a link to a policy page to back up your arguments?
CycoMa1 (
talk)
17:17, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- Like are any of the arguments backed up by
Wikipedia:DEL-REASON?
CycoMa1 (
talk)
17:21, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- Anyway I think I said everything I needed to say right now. Just going to wait for others to comment.
CycoMa1 (
talk)
18:14, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- @
CycoMa1: How about we change it to
Lists of non-binary people, similar to
Lists of women and
Lists of men? This would include lists like
List of non-binary writers, and other more manageable sub-lists.
Nosferattus (
talk)
23:19, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- I would be in support of that. But this discussion is more about whether or not the article should be deleted.
CycoMa1 (
talk)
23:35, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
Actually let me reword myself. I won't be against it. CycoMa1 ( talk) 23:48, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- As far as the policy reasons for deleting, it would be
WP:NOTDIRECTORY and
WP:DEL-REASON #14: "Any other content not suitable for an encyclopedia". It is not appropriate for an encyclopedia to have constantly-changing unmanagably-long lists such as this one. There is precedent for deleting lists that are too long and unmanagable:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lists of Salticidae species (2nd nomination), although that case also involved redundancy.
Nosferattus (
talk)
00:03, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- Under that same logic, there are a lot of lists that should then be deleted. There are plenty of lists on Wikipedia that I would consider to meet the logic laid out in your standards, such as the ones other users have already mentioned.
- And, yes, we have category listings but those are really a difference of formatting. One is a list on a singular page and the other is a directory that leads to a list. See, Lists of Women ( /info/en/?search=Lists_of_women) which leads to several sub lists with a formatting that exactly matches the list whose deletion is being proposed. Annabelledempsey97 ( talk) 19:01, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- I would be in support of that. But this discussion is more about whether or not the article should be deleted.
CycoMa1 (
talk)
23:35, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- @
CycoMa1: How about we change it to
Lists of non-binary people, similar to
Lists of women and
Lists of men? This would include lists like
List of non-binary writers, and other more manageable sub-lists.
Nosferattus (
talk)
23:19, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- Anyway I think I said everything I needed to say right now. Just going to wait for others to comment.
CycoMa1 (
talk)
18:14, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- Like are any of the arguments backed up by
Wikipedia:DEL-REASON?
CycoMa1 (
talk)
17:21, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- Like can any of you please provide a link to a policy page to back up your arguments?
CycoMa1 (
talk)
17:17, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- Keep There is no reason to delete the article per the things I said earlier. CycoMa1 ( talk) 18:46, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sexuality and gender-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 18:51, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- Keep. We maintain a list of the 1,025 Pokémon, so why not the
roughly 900 pages in
Category:Non-binary people? That's a large but not intractable number of entries, and not even close to the largest
stand-alone list on Wikipedia (I've personally touched
List of women authors which includes over 8000 entries). Updating the article to include all current English Wikipedia biography subjects in that cat (excluding the dozen which are fictional, like
Toad) is a perfectly feasible task for a motivated volunteer with a spreadsheet. There is
no deadline. –
RoxySaunders 🏳️⚧️ (
💬 •
📝)
19:51, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- If it's helpful at all, I got an LLM to spit out
a SPARQL query, which retrieves the relevant data for whatever set of article subjects are correctly tagged as being non-binary humans in Wikidata (875, at time of writing). –
RoxySaunders 🏳️⚧️ (
💬 •
📝)
20:09, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- @ RoxySaunders: That's a good start, although there are also 46 gender identities in Wikidata that are subclasses of non-binary. Plus we need references for all of them (or at least the living ones, which is most of them). Nosferattus ( talk) 23:21, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- If it's helpful at all, I got an LLM to spit out
a SPARQL query, which retrieves the relevant data for whatever set of article subjects are correctly tagged as being non-binary humans in Wikidata (875, at time of writing). –
RoxySaunders 🏳️⚧️ (
💬 •
📝)
20:09, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- Withdraw proposal - Based on the feedback so far, I'm going to withdraw this proposal and suggest some fixes on the list's talk page. @ Mrfoogles, CycoMa1, and RoxySaunders: Thank you for the helpful ideas and feedback! Nosferattus ( talk) 15:48, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
List of people with non-binary gender identities
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- List of people with non-binary gender identities ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
While I'm sure this list seemed like a good idea when it was started in 2015, it is no longer practical to keep it updated. According to Wikidata, there are about 1000 non-binary people with Wikipedia articles. This list only includes about 200 of them (including some that probably don't belong, like Prince). The number of notable non-binary people is growing at a rapid rate and I think this information is better handled via Wikidata and categories (the same as we handle other genders). By only listing a small fraction, we are giving the false impression that there are a much smaller number of notable non-binary people than there really are. If you disagree, please elaborate on how you think this list can be realistically kept up-to-date into the future. Nosferattus ( talk) 16:06, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists of people-related deletion discussions. Nosferattus ( talk) 16:06, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- Weak support: Seems reasonable to handle the same as other gender identities. Is it possible to redirect to
Category:Non-binary people (even though it's out of the article namespace)? The downside would be that there's no central list: categories organize things as trees, and it's impossible to view an actual list of all the people. But that may be inevitable. If wikidata gives a list view, maybe it's possible to link to wikidata somehow?
Mrfoogles (
talk)
16:22, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- Need a second opinion though Mrfoogles ( talk) 16:25, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment I wanted to make a comment first before voting. I am going to throw this out there; we have list articles like
Lists of women,
Lists of men,
List of gay, lesbian or bisexual people,
Lists of LGBT people,
List of transgender people. Honestly I don't understand the arguement behind this at all.
CycoMa1 (
talk)
17:06, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- Like can any of you please provide a link to a policy page to back up your arguments?
CycoMa1 (
talk)
17:17, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- Like are any of the arguments backed up by
Wikipedia:DEL-REASON?
CycoMa1 (
talk)
17:21, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- Anyway I think I said everything I needed to say right now. Just going to wait for others to comment.
CycoMa1 (
talk)
18:14, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- @
CycoMa1: How about we change it to
Lists of non-binary people, similar to
Lists of women and
Lists of men? This would include lists like
List of non-binary writers, and other more manageable sub-lists.
Nosferattus (
talk)
23:19, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- I would be in support of that. But this discussion is more about whether or not the article should be deleted.
CycoMa1 (
talk)
23:35, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
Actually let me reword myself. I won't be against it. CycoMa1 ( talk) 23:48, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- As far as the policy reasons for deleting, it would be
WP:NOTDIRECTORY and
WP:DEL-REASON #14: "Any other content not suitable for an encyclopedia". It is not appropriate for an encyclopedia to have constantly-changing unmanagably-long lists such as this one. There is precedent for deleting lists that are too long and unmanagable:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lists of Salticidae species (2nd nomination), although that case also involved redundancy.
Nosferattus (
talk)
00:03, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- Under that same logic, there are a lot of lists that should then be deleted. There are plenty of lists on Wikipedia that I would consider to meet the logic laid out in your standards, such as the ones other users have already mentioned.
- And, yes, we have category listings but those are really a difference of formatting. One is a list on a singular page and the other is a directory that leads to a list. See, Lists of Women ( /info/en/?search=Lists_of_women) which leads to several sub lists with a formatting that exactly matches the list whose deletion is being proposed. Annabelledempsey97 ( talk) 19:01, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- I would be in support of that. But this discussion is more about whether or not the article should be deleted.
CycoMa1 (
talk)
23:35, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- @
CycoMa1: How about we change it to
Lists of non-binary people, similar to
Lists of women and
Lists of men? This would include lists like
List of non-binary writers, and other more manageable sub-lists.
Nosferattus (
talk)
23:19, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- Anyway I think I said everything I needed to say right now. Just going to wait for others to comment.
CycoMa1 (
talk)
18:14, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- Like are any of the arguments backed up by
Wikipedia:DEL-REASON?
CycoMa1 (
talk)
17:21, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- Like can any of you please provide a link to a policy page to back up your arguments?
CycoMa1 (
talk)
17:17, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- Keep There is no reason to delete the article per the things I said earlier. CycoMa1 ( talk) 18:46, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sexuality and gender-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 18:51, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- Keep. We maintain a list of the 1,025 Pokémon, so why not the
roughly 900 pages in
Category:Non-binary people? That's a large but not intractable number of entries, and not even close to the largest
stand-alone list on Wikipedia (I've personally touched
List of women authors which includes over 8000 entries). Updating the article to include all current English Wikipedia biography subjects in that cat (excluding the dozen which are fictional, like
Toad) is a perfectly feasible task for a motivated volunteer with a spreadsheet. There is
no deadline. –
RoxySaunders 🏳️⚧️ (
💬 •
📝)
19:51, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- If it's helpful at all, I got an LLM to spit out
a SPARQL query, which retrieves the relevant data for whatever set of article subjects are correctly tagged as being non-binary humans in Wikidata (875, at time of writing). –
RoxySaunders 🏳️⚧️ (
💬 •
📝)
20:09, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- @ RoxySaunders: That's a good start, although there are also 46 gender identities in Wikidata that are subclasses of non-binary. Plus we need references for all of them (or at least the living ones, which is most of them). Nosferattus ( talk) 23:21, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- If it's helpful at all, I got an LLM to spit out
a SPARQL query, which retrieves the relevant data for whatever set of article subjects are correctly tagged as being non-binary humans in Wikidata (875, at time of writing). –
RoxySaunders 🏳️⚧️ (
💬 •
📝)
20:09, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- Withdraw proposal - Based on the feedback so far, I'm going to withdraw this proposal and suggest some fixes on the list's talk page. @ Mrfoogles, CycoMa1, and RoxySaunders: Thank you for the helpful ideas and feedback! Nosferattus ( talk) 15:48, 9 July 2024 (UTC)