- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. There doesn't seem to be an agreement on whether this article should be improved, or deleted. Several !votes on both the "keep" and "delete" sides are somewhat lacking, and discussion is getting heated, with some name calling going on, so I am going to nip this in the bud now. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 10:22, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
List of people on the postage stamps of Nigeria
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- List of people on the postage stamps of Nigeria ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Fails WP:LISTN. Unsourced since 2003, abandoned since 2010, incomplete even for the years supposedly covered (e.g. 1937, Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother). Fram ( talk) 08:28, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Lists of people and Nigeria. Fram ( talk) 08:28, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
- Delete. After all these "list of people on the postage stamps of X" deletion discussions, no one has stepped forth to prove why this is a topic worth covering. While they can be sourced to a stamp catalogue, that doesn't mean they should be if there is no proof of the underlying topic's notability. Ten Pound Hammer • ( What did I screw up now?) 15:17, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. This is something for another kind of project, outside of Wikipedia. BD2412 T 21:48, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
- Keep. Lists needn't be complete. Wikipedia has
WP:NODEADLINE.
gidonb (
talk) 06:51, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
- The list fails WP:LISTN as a topic without reliable sources about the group (the info is simply extracted from stamp catalogues which are not grouped by or interested in the list topic as such). From the same source, one could just as well make lists about all Nigerian stamps with value X, all square Nigerian stamps, all Nigerian stamps issued in December, ... The additional comments about the list being incomplete and so on just show that no one in all these years has even attempted to make this list worthwhile, and that the readers aren't interested either (which were arguments made in feeble attempts to keep similar lists at AfD, "but its interesting to our readers" and so on). And of course "no deadline" works both ways, there is no deadline to have all article titles blue, even if the actual article is hugely disappointing. Much better to not have an article than to have a very poor one for 15+ years. But the basic deletion reason is WP:LISTN. Fram ( talk) 07:50, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
- Delete Lists need to be complete, period. If we post incomplete lists on Wikipedia, we are misleading people. They also need to be sourced, which this one is not. If something is not sourced, it fails verifiability and we delete it. That you can extract this information from stamp catalogs does not show it is notable. Actually, do stamp catalogs list this specific topic, or do they list all stamps? If Fram is right, than the catalog source is not listing this as a group and so is not usebale to show reliable sources cover this topic. Some have presented sources which mention that X person was portrayed on a stamp from Y location, but those sources do not discuss stamp portrayal as a group and so are not usebale to back up such an article. Also, in general lists on Wikipedia need to only lists those we have articles on. There are people on this list who lack articles, and it is possible to create so many stamps, or to put so many people on one stamp, that appearing on a stamp is not the sort of thing we need comprehensive lists of. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 16:19, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
- Keep; all available evidence tell us that these people were depicted on stamps because they are important to the history and society of their country. Thus, these lists are more reliable and useful to an encyclopedia than
List of faculty and alumni from the University of Nigeria and other totally unsourced lists that are all over wp.
Ten Pound Hammer goes on saying that no one has stepped forth, while the truth is that the discussion in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of people on the postage stamps of the Faroe Islands and the sources added in List of people on the postage stamps of the Faroe Islands clearly indicates that stamp designs and stamp policies play a significant role in many nations. Bw -- Orland ( talk) 22:04, 31 May 2022 (UTC) - What evidence, there are no sources. Beyond that your claim is absolutely false. Go look at
List of people on the postage stamps of Laos. How were John Quincy Adams, James K. Polk, Zachary Taylor or Ferdinand Megellan among others important in any way to Laos? In Colombia they had a stamp connected with the society of engineers, where they had a group portrait of the founding. That does not mean every man crammed in that picture truly was impactful.
Jean Baptiste Charbonneau may actually be important, but he gets on stamps and coins merely because his more famous mother, Sacagawea was carrying her on her back. The US postal service does children's art competitions to drive publicity and sales and depicts the child winners on stamps. That does not make those children important. In some cases the depicted person is so important to the country that secondary sources use a title held by multiple people instead of a personal name because that person is so foreign to the country and society that local srampmakers do not know the difference. There are all sorts of reasons people get on stamps, and many in no way indicate the person has any connection to the country. In others the person is not notable. Wikipedia is not a place for massive lists of non-notable people.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 05:38, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
- John. You should not judge this particular list based own your feelings about how the government of Laos have chosen to form their stamp editing policy. Nor Colombia. But let's take a look at Laos: As for Magellan, he appeared as part of a series of naval explorers. The U.S. presidents seem to have been a tribute to the 1976 US bicentenary; se here and here. These presidents were as such not individually "important to the history and society of their country"; I'll give you that. But many countries issued US-related stamps in 1976, as greetings. Not own history, rather foreign politics. But even that reflects stamps as a expression of the society. Bw Orland ( talk) 15:25, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
- Keep per Orland. Gamaliel ( talk) 16:29, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
- Keep per Orland. Bookworm857158367 ( talk) 23:20, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. There doesn't seem to be an agreement on whether this article should be improved, or deleted. Several !votes on both the "keep" and "delete" sides are somewhat lacking, and discussion is getting heated, with some name calling going on, so I am going to nip this in the bud now. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 10:22, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
List of people on the postage stamps of Nigeria
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- List of people on the postage stamps of Nigeria ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Fails WP:LISTN. Unsourced since 2003, abandoned since 2010, incomplete even for the years supposedly covered (e.g. 1937, Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother). Fram ( talk) 08:28, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Lists of people and Nigeria. Fram ( talk) 08:28, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
- Delete. After all these "list of people on the postage stamps of X" deletion discussions, no one has stepped forth to prove why this is a topic worth covering. While they can be sourced to a stamp catalogue, that doesn't mean they should be if there is no proof of the underlying topic's notability. Ten Pound Hammer • ( What did I screw up now?) 15:17, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. This is something for another kind of project, outside of Wikipedia. BD2412 T 21:48, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
- Keep. Lists needn't be complete. Wikipedia has
WP:NODEADLINE.
gidonb (
talk) 06:51, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
- The list fails WP:LISTN as a topic without reliable sources about the group (the info is simply extracted from stamp catalogues which are not grouped by or interested in the list topic as such). From the same source, one could just as well make lists about all Nigerian stamps with value X, all square Nigerian stamps, all Nigerian stamps issued in December, ... The additional comments about the list being incomplete and so on just show that no one in all these years has even attempted to make this list worthwhile, and that the readers aren't interested either (which were arguments made in feeble attempts to keep similar lists at AfD, "but its interesting to our readers" and so on). And of course "no deadline" works both ways, there is no deadline to have all article titles blue, even if the actual article is hugely disappointing. Much better to not have an article than to have a very poor one for 15+ years. But the basic deletion reason is WP:LISTN. Fram ( talk) 07:50, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
- Delete Lists need to be complete, period. If we post incomplete lists on Wikipedia, we are misleading people. They also need to be sourced, which this one is not. If something is not sourced, it fails verifiability and we delete it. That you can extract this information from stamp catalogs does not show it is notable. Actually, do stamp catalogs list this specific topic, or do they list all stamps? If Fram is right, than the catalog source is not listing this as a group and so is not usebale to show reliable sources cover this topic. Some have presented sources which mention that X person was portrayed on a stamp from Y location, but those sources do not discuss stamp portrayal as a group and so are not usebale to back up such an article. Also, in general lists on Wikipedia need to only lists those we have articles on. There are people on this list who lack articles, and it is possible to create so many stamps, or to put so many people on one stamp, that appearing on a stamp is not the sort of thing we need comprehensive lists of. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 16:19, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
- Keep; all available evidence tell us that these people were depicted on stamps because they are important to the history and society of their country. Thus, these lists are more reliable and useful to an encyclopedia than
List of faculty and alumni from the University of Nigeria and other totally unsourced lists that are all over wp.
Ten Pound Hammer goes on saying that no one has stepped forth, while the truth is that the discussion in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of people on the postage stamps of the Faroe Islands and the sources added in List of people on the postage stamps of the Faroe Islands clearly indicates that stamp designs and stamp policies play a significant role in many nations. Bw -- Orland ( talk) 22:04, 31 May 2022 (UTC) - What evidence, there are no sources. Beyond that your claim is absolutely false. Go look at
List of people on the postage stamps of Laos. How were John Quincy Adams, James K. Polk, Zachary Taylor or Ferdinand Megellan among others important in any way to Laos? In Colombia they had a stamp connected with the society of engineers, where they had a group portrait of the founding. That does not mean every man crammed in that picture truly was impactful.
Jean Baptiste Charbonneau may actually be important, but he gets on stamps and coins merely because his more famous mother, Sacagawea was carrying her on her back. The US postal service does children's art competitions to drive publicity and sales and depicts the child winners on stamps. That does not make those children important. In some cases the depicted person is so important to the country that secondary sources use a title held by multiple people instead of a personal name because that person is so foreign to the country and society that local srampmakers do not know the difference. There are all sorts of reasons people get on stamps, and many in no way indicate the person has any connection to the country. In others the person is not notable. Wikipedia is not a place for massive lists of non-notable people.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 05:38, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
- John. You should not judge this particular list based own your feelings about how the government of Laos have chosen to form their stamp editing policy. Nor Colombia. But let's take a look at Laos: As for Magellan, he appeared as part of a series of naval explorers. The U.S. presidents seem to have been a tribute to the 1976 US bicentenary; se here and here. These presidents were as such not individually "important to the history and society of their country"; I'll give you that. But many countries issued US-related stamps in 1976, as greetings. Not own history, rather foreign politics. But even that reflects stamps as a expression of the society. Bw Orland ( talk) 15:25, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
- Keep per Orland. Gamaliel ( talk) 16:29, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
- Keep per Orland. Bookworm857158367 ( talk) 23:20, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.