- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was Speedy Keep - Withdrawn by Nominator ( non-admin closure) Rorshacma ( talk) 03:17, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
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- List of films featuring space stations ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
A non-encyclopedic cross categorization of the "List of X with Y" variety. Fictional depictions of space stations is a notable topic, hence our existing article on the subject, but a list simply recording movies that have space stations appearing in them runs afoul of WP:NOT. Rorshacma ( talk) 21:46, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- Withdrawn - Per the discussion with Jclemens below, I feel like I did not nominate this article with a valid reason, so I am Withdrawing the nomination. Rorshacma ( talk) 03:10, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Fictional elements, Film, and Spaceflight. Rorshacma ( talk) 21:46, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- How many others of Category:Lists of films by topic or Category:Lists of films by common content are you planning on deleting next? Andy Dingley ( talk) 21:54, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- While I haven't looked through those, I will say that in many cases a list of things categorized by a topic is different then a list of things categorized by something specific that appeared in them, which is what this list is. This one happened to stick out to me because I know that our Space stations and habitats in fiction article was completely rewritten due to an AFD prompted by it initially being nothing but a list of things with space stations in them. Rorshacma ( talk) 22:06, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment: I created this article based on WP:NOTESAL, which says, "One accepted reason why a list topic is considered notable is if it has been discussed as a group or set by independent reliable sources, per the above guidelines; notable list topics are appropriate for a stand-alone list. The entirety of the list does not need to be documented in sources for notability, only that the grouping or set in general has been." These were the core list reliable sources that justify the nature of this list in the first place:
- "Space Stations in Movies". Rocket City Space Pioneers. Dynetics. Archived from the original on December 17, 2013. Retrieved July 26, 2013.
- Kramer, Miriam (August 8, 2013). "Our 10 Favorite Sci-Fi Space Stations of All Time". Space.com. TechMediaNetwork, Inc.
- Westfahl, Gary (2009). Islands in the Sky: The Space Station Theme in Science Fiction Literature. Borgo Press. ISBN 978-1-4344-0356-8.
- Looking now, I am not seeing more than the above that I found at the time (2013). It feels on the threshold of notability for me, so I'll let others decide. If the consensus is that there should not be a standalone list, let's at least have a film and/or TV section at Space stations and habitats in fiction highlighting what the above list sources name. Erik ( talk | contrib) ( ping me) 22:20, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- EDIT: Actually, this indicates that the book Space Stations: The Art, Science, and Reality of Working in Space seems to have a "Space Stations in the Movies and on TV" chapter or section. If we can find more, that would be great. Erik ( talk | contrib) ( ping me) 22:26, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- Keep not a non-encyclopedic cross-categorization. Science fiction is a specific genre of movie, a subset of which involve a space station, and that subset has been discussed in RS as shown above. Jclemens ( talk) 22:28, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- Hm, I don't think that argument really counters the text at
WP:CROSSCAT, since it could be plugged in to argue for the examples specifically cited there as things to avoid. The issue is that this is not a list or article on "Space Station Films" (which even if that could be considered a genre, would still likely be better off covered at
Space stations and habitats in fiction), but simply a list of movies in which the same object appears at some point (in this case, a space station). As I mentioned above, there's a difference between a list covering films of the same genre or topic (i.e.
List of films about horse racing) and one just listing films in which a certain "thing" happens to appear (i.e., List of Films With Horses).
Rorshacma (
talk)
23:51, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- Note that everything in WP:CROSSCAT has two entirely unrelated items. Affinity and employment, or cuisine and city, are entirely orthogonal, and naturally do not routinely show up in RS'es because of that lack of association. As Erik pointed out above, this cross-categorization does, much like a book on the best Bagel shops in New York City would render a list of those no longer a non-encyclopedic cross-categorization despite the example in CROSSCAT. Jclemens ( talk) 02:37, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- Hm, I don't think that argument really counters the text at
WP:CROSSCAT, since it could be plugged in to argue for the examples specifically cited there as things to avoid. The issue is that this is not a list or article on "Space Station Films" (which even if that could be considered a genre, would still likely be better off covered at
Space stations and habitats in fiction), but simply a list of movies in which the same object appears at some point (in this case, a space station). As I mentioned above, there's a difference between a list covering films of the same genre or topic (i.e.
List of films about horse racing) and one just listing films in which a certain "thing" happens to appear (i.e., List of Films With Horses).
Rorshacma (
talk)
23:51, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Science fiction and fantasy and Lists. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 02:32, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was Speedy Keep - Withdrawn by Nominator ( non-admin closure) Rorshacma ( talk) 03:17, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- List of films featuring space stations ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
A non-encyclopedic cross categorization of the "List of X with Y" variety. Fictional depictions of space stations is a notable topic, hence our existing article on the subject, but a list simply recording movies that have space stations appearing in them runs afoul of WP:NOT. Rorshacma ( talk) 21:46, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- Withdrawn - Per the discussion with Jclemens below, I feel like I did not nominate this article with a valid reason, so I am Withdrawing the nomination. Rorshacma ( talk) 03:10, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Fictional elements, Film, and Spaceflight. Rorshacma ( talk) 21:46, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- How many others of Category:Lists of films by topic or Category:Lists of films by common content are you planning on deleting next? Andy Dingley ( talk) 21:54, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- While I haven't looked through those, I will say that in many cases a list of things categorized by a topic is different then a list of things categorized by something specific that appeared in them, which is what this list is. This one happened to stick out to me because I know that our Space stations and habitats in fiction article was completely rewritten due to an AFD prompted by it initially being nothing but a list of things with space stations in them. Rorshacma ( talk) 22:06, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment: I created this article based on WP:NOTESAL, which says, "One accepted reason why a list topic is considered notable is if it has been discussed as a group or set by independent reliable sources, per the above guidelines; notable list topics are appropriate for a stand-alone list. The entirety of the list does not need to be documented in sources for notability, only that the grouping or set in general has been." These were the core list reliable sources that justify the nature of this list in the first place:
- "Space Stations in Movies". Rocket City Space Pioneers. Dynetics. Archived from the original on December 17, 2013. Retrieved July 26, 2013.
- Kramer, Miriam (August 8, 2013). "Our 10 Favorite Sci-Fi Space Stations of All Time". Space.com. TechMediaNetwork, Inc.
- Westfahl, Gary (2009). Islands in the Sky: The Space Station Theme in Science Fiction Literature. Borgo Press. ISBN 978-1-4344-0356-8.
- Looking now, I am not seeing more than the above that I found at the time (2013). It feels on the threshold of notability for me, so I'll let others decide. If the consensus is that there should not be a standalone list, let's at least have a film and/or TV section at Space stations and habitats in fiction highlighting what the above list sources name. Erik ( talk | contrib) ( ping me) 22:20, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- EDIT: Actually, this indicates that the book Space Stations: The Art, Science, and Reality of Working in Space seems to have a "Space Stations in the Movies and on TV" chapter or section. If we can find more, that would be great. Erik ( talk | contrib) ( ping me) 22:26, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- Keep not a non-encyclopedic cross-categorization. Science fiction is a specific genre of movie, a subset of which involve a space station, and that subset has been discussed in RS as shown above. Jclemens ( talk) 22:28, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- Hm, I don't think that argument really counters the text at
WP:CROSSCAT, since it could be plugged in to argue for the examples specifically cited there as things to avoid. The issue is that this is not a list or article on "Space Station Films" (which even if that could be considered a genre, would still likely be better off covered at
Space stations and habitats in fiction), but simply a list of movies in which the same object appears at some point (in this case, a space station). As I mentioned above, there's a difference between a list covering films of the same genre or topic (i.e.
List of films about horse racing) and one just listing films in which a certain "thing" happens to appear (i.e., List of Films With Horses).
Rorshacma (
talk)
23:51, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- Note that everything in WP:CROSSCAT has two entirely unrelated items. Affinity and employment, or cuisine and city, are entirely orthogonal, and naturally do not routinely show up in RS'es because of that lack of association. As Erik pointed out above, this cross-categorization does, much like a book on the best Bagel shops in New York City would render a list of those no longer a non-encyclopedic cross-categorization despite the example in CROSSCAT. Jclemens ( talk) 02:37, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- Hm, I don't think that argument really counters the text at
WP:CROSSCAT, since it could be plugged in to argue for the examples specifically cited there as things to avoid. The issue is that this is not a list or article on "Space Station Films" (which even if that could be considered a genre, would still likely be better off covered at
Space stations and habitats in fiction), but simply a list of movies in which the same object appears at some point (in this case, a space station). As I mentioned above, there's a difference between a list covering films of the same genre or topic (i.e.
List of films about horse racing) and one just listing films in which a certain "thing" happens to appear (i.e., List of Films With Horses).
Rorshacma (
talk)
23:51, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Science fiction and fantasy and Lists. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 02:32, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.